I've just turned off the hot water at the stopcock in the airing
cupboard (one of those red-wheel jobs.

Something has broken, and it won't turn back on again.

I've removed the wheel, and the centre stem is just turning endlessly
without pulling the shutter (don't know the right terms!) back and
openening the pipe.

No hot water tonight is going to be popular. Is there a way forward
without draining the whole system down?

TIA

Pete

Pete wrote:
I've just turned off the hot water at the stopcock in the airing
cupboard (one of those red-wheel jobs.

gate valve

Something has broken, and it won't turn back on again.

ought to open and close it once a month to avoid such issues.

I've removed the wheel, and the centre stem is just turning endlessly
without pulling the shutter (don't know the right terms!) back and
openening the pipe.

No hot water tonight is going to be popular. Is there a way forward
without draining the whole system down?

not really, new gate valve is needed. couple of hours at most, including
nipping down to a shed to get the gate valve.



RT

I'd have said no! Still, it shouldn't take to long to drain the hot water
down. I've always found those gatevalves a bit unreliable although they are
cheap! I've replaced mine with those ball valves I think they're called
(like the washing machine taps) which seem a lot more reliable. They also
completely shut the water off whereas the gatevalves have a tendency to
dribble a bit.
"Pete" wrote in message
...
I've just turned off the hot water at the stopcock in the airing
cupboard (one of those red-wheel jobs.

Something has broken, and it won't turn back on again.

I've removed the wheel, and the centre stem is just turning endlessly
without pulling the shutter (don't know the right terms!) back and
openening the pipe.

No hot water tonight is going to be popular. Is there a way forward
without draining the whole system down?

TIA

Pete

[reassembling post in correct order for quoting]

In article ,
"Geoff Norfolk" writes:
"Pete" wrote in message
...

No hot water tonight is going to be popular. Is there a way forward
without draining the whole system down?

Depends where the valve is and the layout of the rest of the plumbing.
If it's in the hot water circuit (as opposed to the primary heating
circuit) then you just need to empty the loft tank, and if it's below
the top of the hot water cylinder, that too down to below the level.
You might even avoid emptying the loft tank if you can reach into it
and block the outlet with a bottle stopper or something similar.

My guess is the travelling gate has run off the end of the thread for
some reason. You might be able to do a temporary repair by unscrewing
the body of the gate valve, taking the gate out, and pushing it back
into the top as you start opening the valve, until it bites into the
thread again (or you might even risk putting it back together without
the gate in the valve as a temporary measure, although you then lost
your ability to turn off the valve in an emergency). One snag is the
seal between the two parts of the valve body may not seal again when
you reassemble it, and they are a strange size, but it might do until
you can get a replacement.

I've always found those gatevalves a bit unreliable although they are
cheap! I've replaced mine with those ball valves I think they're called
(like the washing machine taps) which seem a lot more reliable. They also
completely shut the water off whereas the gatevalves have a tendency to
dribble a bit.

Use a full-bore one if you do this -- normally with a lever on the top
to turn it.

--
Andrew Gabriel

On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 16:36:27 GMT, "[news]" wrote:

Pete wrote:
I've just turned off the hot water at the stopcock in the airing
cupboard (one of those red-wheel jobs.

gate valve

Something has broken, and it won't turn back on again.

ought to open and close it once a month to avoid such issues.

I've removed the wheel, and the centre stem is just turning endlessly
without pulling the shutter (don't know the right terms!) back and
openening the pipe.

No hot water tonight is going to be popular. Is there a way forward
without draining the whole system down?

not really, new gate valve is needed. couple of hours at most, including
nipping down to a shed to get the gate valve.



RT
Thanks for advice, guys - but how DO I drain down the hot water tank
when the inlet valve above it is stuck shut?? Am I reduced to waiting
12 hours for what trickle there is to drain it?

Pete wrote:
On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 16:36:27 GMT, "[news]" wrote:

Pete wrote:
I've just turned off the hot water at the stopcock in the airing
cupboard (one of those red-wheel jobs.

gate valve

Something has broken, and it won't turn back on again.

ought to open and close it once a month to avoid such issues.

I've removed the wheel, and the centre stem is just turning endlessly
without pulling the shutter (don't know the right terms!) back and
openening the pipe.

No hot water tonight is going to be popular. Is there a way forward
without draining the whole system down?

not really, new gate valve is needed. couple of hours at most, including
nipping down to a shed to get the gate valve.



RT
Thanks for advice, guys - but how DO I drain down the hot water tank
when the inlet valve above it is stuck shut?? Am I reduced to waiting
12 hours for what trickle there is to drain it?

siphon it out with a hose, crack the joint on the top of the gate valve and there
will only be the amount of water the 22mm (guess) tube will hold. about a pint.

any unplanned plumbing job means water all over the shop.


RT

"[news]" wrote in message
...
Pete wrote:
On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 16:36:27 GMT, "[news]" wrote:

Pete wrote:
I've just turned off the hot water at the stopcock in the airing
cupboard (one of those red-wheel jobs.

gate valve

Something has broken, and it won't turn back on again.

ought to open and close it once a month to avoid such issues.

I've removed the wheel, and the centre stem is just turning endlessly
without pulling the shutter (don't know the right terms!) back and
openening the pipe.

No hot water tonight is going to be popular. Is there a way forward
without draining the whole system down?

not really, new gate valve is needed. couple of hours at most,
including
nipping down to a shed to get the gate valve.



RT
Thanks for advice, guys - but how DO I drain down the hot water tank
when the inlet valve above it is stuck shut?? Am I reduced to waiting
12 hours for what trickle there is to drain it?

siphon it out with a hose, crack the joint on the top of the gate valve
and there
will only be the amount of water the 22mm (guess) tube will hold. about a
pint.

any unplanned plumbing job means water all over the shop.



or if you really want to take a chance, disconnect the "dry" side , fit a
new valve to it, open it and all the hot taps and be ready for a quick
changeover .....

(but not if you have a tank full of hot water)

Pete wrote:
On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 16:36:27 GMT, "[news]" wrote:


Pete wrote:

I've just turned off the hot water at the stopcock in the airing
cupboard (one of those red-wheel jobs.

gate valve


Something has broken, and it won't turn back on again.

ought to open and close it once a month to avoid such issues.


I've removed the wheel, and the centre stem is just turning endlessly
without pulling the shutter (don't know the right terms!) back and
openening the pipe.

No hot water tonight is going to be popular. Is there a way forward
without draining the whole system down?

not really, new gate valve is needed. couple of hours at most, including
nipping down to a shed to get the gate valve.



RT

Thanks for advice, guys - but how DO I drain down the hot water tank
when the inlet valve above it is stuck shut?? Am I reduced to waiting
12 hours for what trickle there is to drain it?

I assume you mean the gate valve in the pipework from the storage tank
in the attic feeding into the bottom of the hot water cylinder as this
is the usual position for a valve to stop the hot water supply. You can
stop the flow to this valve in order to change it by blocking the outlet
from the tank. Usually this will be 22mm (maybe 28mm: if it's 15mm
something is wrong) and the traditional stopper is a carrot :-) Drayton
sell rubber bungs for this sort of purpose (but they're expensive). Wine
corks are the wrong size although IIRC those rubber vacu-vin stoppers
might do. Just don't even think of plasticene or blu-tack: it's liable
to get sucked into the pipework!

I always replace gate valves with lever-operated full-bore ball valves
like http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?id=17293
You need to cut back the pipe to accomodate these valves as they have
longer bodies than gate valves.

You might have to get off the old olives and nuts to put a new valve on
anyway as sometimes the old valve has different threads on its
compression nuts than new ones. Sometimes you can persuade the old olive
to slide off by tapping the back of the nut but if not you saw carefully
through the olive using a junior hacksaw almost parallel to the pipe
direction and then splittingthe olive with a screwdriver blade.

You might also find that the old pipework is 3/4" rather than 22mm in
which case you really should use 3/4" olives (designed to work in 22mm
fittings to adapt to old pipe) though I have got away with tightening up
a copper 22mm olive a long way.

On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 00:29:01 +0000, John Stumbles
wrote:

snip original post

I assume you mean the gate valve in the pipework from the storage tank
in the attic feeding into the bottom of the hot water cylinder as this
is the usual position for a valve to stop the hot water supply. You can
stop the flow to this valve in order to change it by blocking the outlet
from the tank. Usually this will be 22mm (maybe 28mm: if it's 15mm
something is wrong) and the traditional stopper is a carrot :-) Drayton
sell rubber bungs for this sort of purpose (but they're expensive). Wine
corks are the wrong size although IIRC those rubber vacu-vin stoppers
might do. Just don't even think of plasticene or blu-tack: it's liable
to get sucked into the pipework!

I always replace gate valves with lever-operated full-bore ball valves
like http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?id=17293
You need to cut back the pipe to accomodate these valves as they have
longer bodies than gate valves.

You might have to get off the old olives and nuts to put a new valve on
anyway as sometimes the old valve has different threads on its
compression nuts than new ones. Sometimes you can persuade the old olive
to slide off by tapping the back of the nut but if not you saw carefully
through the olive using a junior hacksaw almost parallel to the pipe
direction and then splittingthe olive with a screwdriver blade.

You might also find that the old pipework is 3/4" rather than 22mm in
which case you really should use 3/4" olives (designed to work in 22mm
fittings to adapt to old pipe) though I have got away with tightening up
a copper 22mm olive a long way.

The carrot trick was nothing short of briliant! It worked, the valve
is replaced and hot water is restored.

Think I'll replace the others before this happens again...

Many thanks to all.