I'm preparing to carry out extensions to domestic hot & cold water pipes
for a new kitchen & utility.
(A proper plumber is doing anything to do with Gas and central heating
pipes).

This is just a short message to guage support for the various types of
copper pipe fitting available to me.

e.g. Compression, Push Fit (plastic), Push Fit copper (cuprofit), (End Feed
& Capillary - see below) - any others?

Assume all pipework will be hidden i.e behind/beneath kitchen cupboards,
this does not need to win any beauty contests.

I'm a fairly capable DIYer (and always spend twice as long as I need for
peace of mind), but the thought of solder joints does seem quite daunting.

I have generally bought through screwfix, but happy dealing with plumb
centre, jewsons etc in order to get the lowest cost.

Let the arguments (sorry - debates) begin!!!


--
KEVIN BRADY, Oxford
_____________________
replies to newsgroup only
mail to reply address is automatically deleted from server

"Kevin Brady" wrote in message
...
I'm preparing to carry out extensions to domestic hot & cold water pipes
for a new kitchen & utility.
(A proper plumber is doing anything to do with Gas and central heating
pipes).

This is just a short message to guage support for the various types of
copper pipe fitting available to me.

e.g. Compression, Push Fit (plastic), Push Fit copper (cuprofit), (End
Feed
& Capillary - see below) - any others?

Assume all pipework will be hidden i.e behind/beneath kitchen cupboards,
this does not need to win any beauty contests.

I'm a fairly capable DIYer (and always spend twice as long as I need for
peace of mind), but the thought of solder joints does seem quite daunting.

get a couple of solder fittings and a bit of pipe and try it - it's very
easy, just make sure the fittings and pipe are clean (wire wool) and use
flux. You'll be soon wondering why you thought it'd be difficult.

Fine - I'll give it a go, I've always enjoyed playing with flames - please
tell me I'll need a big welders mask for something this hardcore.

Sorry - seriously, end feed or capillary ?(is capillary easier/less likely
to leak?)


--
KEVIN BRADY, Oxford
_____________________
replies to newsgroup only
mail to reply address is automatically deleted from server
"Dave" wrote in message
...

"Kevin Brady" wrote in message
...
I'm preparing to carry out extensions to domestic hot & cold water pipes
for a new kitchen & utility.
(A proper plumber is doing anything to do with Gas and central heating
pipes).

This is just a short message to guage support for the various types of
copper pipe fitting available to me.

e.g. Compression, Push Fit (plastic), Push Fit copper (cuprofit), (End
Feed
& Capillary - see below) - any others?

Assume all pipework will be hidden i.e behind/beneath kitchen cupboards,
this does not need to win any beauty contests.

I'm a fairly capable DIYer (and always spend twice as long as I need for
peace of mind), but the thought of solder joints does seem quite
daunting.

get a couple of solder fittings and a bit of pipe and try it - it's very
easy, just make sure the fittings and pipe are clean (wire wool) and use
flux. You'll be soon wondering why you thought it'd be difficult.

Kevin Brady wrote:
Fine - I'll give it a go, I've always enjoyed playing with flames -
please
tell me I'll need a big welders mask for something this hardcore.

Sorry - seriously, end feed or capillary ?(is capillary easier/less
likely
to leak?)



I always use the regular non ready soldered types unless I'm doing an
upside-down joint in an inaccessible area.

On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 14:15:10 +0000 (UTC), Kevin Brady wrote:

Fine - I'll give it a go, I've always enjoyed playing with flames - please
tell me I'll need a big welders mask for something this hardcore.

Sorry - seriously, end feed or capillary ?(is capillary easier/less likely
to leak?)

Yup, I'd second what Dave said. For a DIYer, I'd go for Yorkshire fittings,
and above all else, make sure you clean everything properly, and apply
flux. Yes, I know that's what he said as well.....

I always tend to feed a little plumbers' solder as well into the end of the
Yorkshire fitting. You might also find it useful to look for a glass fibre
protective mat. Shouldn't cost more than a pound or two from your local
plumbers' merchant, saves scorching the joists or adjacent cupboard panels
if you've got a bit of residual water in a horizontal run, and you're
swearing and cursing coz the fitting won't solder properly. :-))

I'd been told years ago that any fool could make decent plumbing joints
using capilliary fittings; unfortunately my mentors never thought to
mention how important it is to clean the fittings, so first time I tried it
(moving a header tank in the loft so I had a useful area to board out)
there was water everywhere when I turned the supply back on.

Experience gained is directly proportional to the damage sustained!

--
the dot wanderer at tesco dot net

This weekend I'll be practising with the capillary (end feed) joints. Thanks
for the help and encouragement.

On the same topic, part of the pipework will be buried beneath the floor
within a space I've left in the slab. The plumber suggests i simply lag the
pipe in grey foam before burying in sand/cement screed. For this purpose, I
don't want any joints down there. So do I

1. Use copper pipe, single length and bent at each end to come up the wall
either side of the room. Then copper fittings as already discussed.

OR

2. Use plastic pipe for this section, with plastic to copper adaptor each
end (accessible), then copper capillary from then on.

Many thanks for my ongoing benefit of your experience.


--
KEVIN BRADY, Oxford
_____________________
replies to newsgroup only
mail to reply address is automatically deleted from server
"The Wanderer" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 14:15:10 +0000 (UTC), Kevin Brady wrote:

Fine - I'll give it a go, I've always enjoyed playing with flames -
please
tell me I'll need a big welders mask for something this hardcore.

Sorry - seriously, end feed or capillary ?(is capillary easier/less
likely
to leak?)

Yup, I'd second what Dave said. For a DIYer, I'd go for Yorkshire
fittings,
and above all else, make sure you clean everything properly, and apply
flux. Yes, I know that's what he said as well.....

I always tend to feed a little plumbers' solder as well into the end of
the
Yorkshire fitting. You might also find it useful to look for a glass fibre
protective mat. Shouldn't cost more than a pound or two from your local
plumbers' merchant, saves scorching the joists or adjacent cupboard panels
if you've got a bit of residual water in a horizontal run, and you're
swearing and cursing coz the fitting won't solder properly. :-))

I'd been told years ago that any fool could make decent plumbing joints
using capilliary fittings; unfortunately my mentors never thought to
mention how important it is to clean the fittings, so first time I tried
it
(moving a header tank in the loft so I had a useful area to board out)
there was water everywhere when I turned the supply back on.

Experience gained is directly proportional to the damage sustained!

--
the dot wanderer at tesco dot net

Kevin Brady wrote:
I'm preparing to carry out extensions to domestic hot & cold water pipes
for a new kitchen & utility.
(A proper plumber is doing anything to do with Gas and central heating
pipes).

This is just a short message to guage support for the various types of
copper pipe fitting available to me.

e.g. Compression, Push Fit (plastic), Push Fit copper (cuprofit), (End Feed
& Capillary - see below) - any others?

Assume all pipework will be hidden i.e behind/beneath kitchen cupboards,
this does not need to win any beauty contests.

I'm a fairly capable DIYer (and always spend twice as long as I need for
peace of mind), but the thought of solder joints does seem quite daunting.

I have generally bought through screwfix, but happy dealing with plumb
centre, jewsons etc in order to get the lowest cost.

Let the arguments (sorry - debates) begin!!!


I felt exactly the same as you with regard to being a little wary of
soldered joints. I had a mate show me the basics though, (clean pipe &
fittings with wire wool, fine emery paper etc) and i used solder ring
fittings. Easy! The advice about using a heatproof mat is good, i was
soldering radiator pipework underneath floor level so i dampened down
the area first, then put down the mat. Overkill probably but i dont like
house fires!

Give it a go on some test bits first to get the idea and you will be fine!

In article ,
Kevin Brady wrote:
Fine - I'll give it a go, I've always enjoyed playing with flames -
please tell me I'll need a big welders mask for something this hardcore.

No. Nor do you really need gloves - although you might need to support the
pipes until the solder has set. Protective eye wear is a sensible
precaution will all DIY, though.

Sorry - seriously, end feed or capillary ?(is capillary easier/less
likely to leak?)

End feed bought in bulk are a fraction of the price. So experiment with
those.

--
*Learn from your parents' mistakes - use birth control

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Kevin Brady wrote:

Fine - I'll give it a go, I've always enjoyed playing with flames - please
tell me I'll need a big welders mask for something this hardcore.

Well if you insist, yes.... only don't wear it while trying to solder
cos you won't be able to see a blinking thing!

Sorry - seriously, end feed or capillary ?(is capillary easier/less likely
to leak?)

By capillary I take it you mean solder ring?

(end feed and solder ring (aka Yorkshire fittings) are both capillary
fittings - that is how the solder gets drawn into the joint)

Solder ring is generally thought of as being easier - clean, flux, heat,
wait for a nice bright ring of solder to appear at the end of the
fitting, stop heating, don't let it move while cooling.

End feed is cheaper and looks neater, and once you have managed to ween
yourself away from the "simplicity" of solder ring fittings you actually
find that they are not any harder to use (unless you are working in
really confined spaces and can only get enough hands to the job to hold
a blowtorch OR solder but not both!).

Once you have the technique sorted (i.e. cleaning and making the joint,
then how much heat for how long), both are very reliable. The extra
manufacturing complexity of the solder ring fitting _may_result in a
higher failure rate as a result of defects in the fitting.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article ,
The Wanderer wrote:
Yup, I'd second what Dave said. For a DIYer, I'd go for Yorkshire
fittings, and above all else, make sure you clean everything properly,
and apply flux. Yes, I know that's what he said as well.....

I always tend to feed a little plumbers' solder as well into the end of
the Yorkshire fitting.

Then there really is no point in using expensive Yorkshires. They're
approx 2.5 times the price in bulk.

If you practice with end feed, then take one apart, you'll find all the
pipe is tinned, so end feed capillary really does all that is needed.

--
*If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Cuprager wrote:
I felt exactly the same as you with regard to being a little wary of
soldered joints. I had a mate show me the basics though, (clean pipe &
fittings with wire wool, fine emery paper etc) and i used solder ring
fittings. Easy! The advice about using a heatproof mat is good, i was
soldering radiator pipework underneath floor level so i dampened down
the area first, then put down the mat. Overkill probably but i dont like
house fires!

Another good tip for fireproofing awkward areas is those spare ceramic
tiles you bought but never used...

--
*Gaffer tape - The Force, light and dark sides - holds the universe together*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Kevin Brady wrote:
This weekend I'll be practising with the capillary (end feed) joints. Thanks
for the help and encouragement.

On the same topic, part of the pipework will be buried beneath the floor
within a space I've left in the slab. The plumber suggests i simply lag the
pipe in grey foam before burying in sand/cement screed. For this purpose, I
don't want any joints down there. So do I

1. Use copper pipe, single length and bent at each end to come up the wall
either side of the room. Then copper fittings as already discussed.

OR

2. Use plastic pipe for this section, with plastic to copper adaptor each
end (accessible), then copper capillary from then on.


I'd go option 2 in that scenario. in fact, I'd go pushfit and plastic everywhere
that couldn't be seen and avoid as many joints as possible. yes I can sweat
a joint up but since I don't do it everyday there's a good chance that when the
water is turned on at the end of a tiring day, there's a leak and you have to
drain the system down and dry the joint out and sweat it up proper.

for the sake of a few quid I take the line of least resistance, every time.



RT

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
The Wanderer wrote:
Yup, I'd second what Dave said. For a DIYer, I'd go for Yorkshire
fittings, and above all else, make sure you clean everything properly,
and apply flux. Yes, I know that's what he said as well.....

I always tend to feed a little plumbers' solder as well into the end of
the Yorkshire fitting.

Then there really is no point in using expensive Yorkshires. They're
approx 2.5 times the price in bulk.

If you practice with end feed, then take one apart, you'll find all the
pipe is tinned, so end feed capillary really does all that is needed.

--

My background is in electronics soldering - learned my first (painful)
lessons as a kid soldering germanium transistors with a 50 watt half inch
iron ;--)

Perversely I use Yorkshire fittings AND extra solder :-)

I found the wazy "La-co" flux to be the most reliable - I even managed to
solder copper to lead once or twice.

I do as much of the assembly as possible on the bench - the trick being to
work out the logical sequence of joints so the next one is warming up and
the previous ones cooling down while you're doing the current one ....

I haven't had one of my joints fail yest .....

I'll probably give push-fit a go when I do my central heating ...

Jeremy

On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 13:47:24 +0000 (UTC), "Kevin Brady" wrote:

I'm preparing to carry out extensions to domestic hot & cold water pipes
for a new kitchen & utility.
(A proper plumber is doing anything to do with Gas and central heating
pipes).

This is just a short message to guage support for the various types of
copper pipe fitting available to me.

e.g. Compression, Push Fit (plastic), Push Fit copper (cuprofit), (End Feed
& Capillary - see below) - any others?

Assume all pipework will be hidden i.e behind/beneath kitchen cupboards,
this does not need to win any beauty contests.

I'm a fairly capable DIYer (and always spend twice as long as I need for
peace of mind), but the thought of solder joints does seem quite daunting.

I have generally bought through screwfix, but happy dealing with plumb
centre, jewsons etc in order to get the lowest cost.

Let the arguments (sorry - debates) begin!!!

I only trust solder, and prefer end-feed, except in hard-to-get-at places where I'd use capillary.
Apart from being cheaper, a big advantage with end-feed is you can solder one end at a time - this
is very useful for pre-assembling fittings onto bits of pipe - with capillary, the heat from one end
will melt the solder in the other.

Get a blowlamp that has a pre-heat tube (passses gas through edge of flame - often promoted as
useable at any orientation without flaring), and use propane/butane mix for maximum power.

On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 15:23:39 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

In article ,
Cuprager wrote:
I felt exactly the same as you with regard to being a little wary of
soldered joints. I had a mate show me the basics though, (clean pipe &
fittings with wire wool, fine emery paper etc) and i used solder ring
fittings. Easy! The advice about using a heatproof mat is good, i was
soldering radiator pipework underneath floor level so i dampened down
the area first, then put down the mat. Overkill probably but i dont like
house fires!

Another good tip for fireproofing awkward areas is those spare ceramic
tiles you bought but never used...

But remember that they may crack.

In article ,
Mike Harrison wrote:
Another good tip for fireproofing awkward areas is those spare ceramic
tiles you bought but never used...

But remember that they may crack.


Oh yes. I wasn't suggesting using wanted spares. Just those boxes you
bought for safety two kitchens ago. If you're anything like me. ;-)

FWIW quarry tiles seem to withstand the heat the best.

Other thing I missed out is to use a decent aggressive flux - my favourite
being Everflux - and wash the outside of the pipe afterwards. I was told
it would work on green copper - and proved it did in a test. Got a bit of
grotty old pipe from the cellar and tried it just for fun.

But I still clean even new pipe with wire wool till it gleams - and avoid
touching the to be soldered surfaces by hand.

--
*Money isn't everything, but it sure keeps the kids in touch.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Solder ring fittings are better in less experienced hands, but the secret to
end-feed fittings
is quite simple: clean not only the pipe with wire-wool, but also the inside
of the fitting too,
then flux everything. You can get away with not cleaning the inside of a
solder ring fitting because there is a naturally tinned ring where the
solder is located, so that ring will always be well wetted
by solder and make a good joint.

NB; Thre are different fluxes available, there is one in a beige round tin
called Tempus or something
like that, 'the mild flux'. It is OK but needs all surfaces to be well
cleaned. On the other hand, an aggressive flux like 'Everflux' will make a
joint without having to clean the joints at all! Some people dislike
agressive fluxes because of their corrosive natures.

Andy.

andrewpreece wrote:

NB; Thre are different fluxes available, there is one in a beige
round tin
called Tempus or something
like that, 'the mild flux'. It is OK but needs all surfaces to be
well
cleaned. On the other hand, an aggressive flux like 'Everflux' will
make a
joint without having to clean the joints at all! Some people dislike
agressive fluxes because of their corrosive natures.

And aggresive flux is not recommended when soldering gas pipe runs :-0

Jason

Great responses guys - I'm sure I'm not the only one who'll benefit from all
that lot - all within the space of a few hours too!

KB, Oxford


"Jyestyn" wrote in message
oups.com...

andrewpreece wrote:

NB; Thre are different fluxes available, there is one in a beige
round tin
called Tempus or something
like that, 'the mild flux'. It is OK but needs all surfaces to be
well
cleaned. On the other hand, an aggressive flux like 'Everflux' will
make a
joint without having to clean the joints at all! Some people dislike
agressive fluxes because of their corrosive natures.

And aggresive flux is not recommended when soldering gas pipe runs :-0

Jason

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article ,
The Wanderer wrote:
Yup, I'd second what Dave said. For a DIYer, I'd go for Yorkshire
fittings, and above all else, make sure you clean everything properly,
and apply flux. Yes, I know that's what he said as well.....

I always tend to feed a little plumbers' solder as well into the end of
the Yorkshire fitting.

Then there really is no point in using expensive Yorkshires. They're
approx 2.5 times the price in bulk.

If you practice with end feed, then take one apart, you'll find all the
pipe is tinned, so end feed capillary really does all that is needed.

Is it just me, or might a thinner lead-free solder than the ~4mm one
be handy for neatness on end-feed?

brugnospamsia wrote:

I found the wazy "La-co" flux to be the most reliable - I even managed to
solder copper to lead once or twice.

I'd always used fluxite (a habit inherited from dad who worked for the
gas board) and was doing som eplumbing for a friend last weekend, I was
running low on flux so switched to an old tin of the La-Co you
mentioned, I thought it was more like vaseline than flux, but was very
surprised at the better "wetting" it achieved, it positively drags the
solder out to form a nice bright ring on the joint ...

Jyestyn wrote:

NB; Thre are different fluxes available, there is one in a beige

round tin

called Tempus or something
like that, 'the mild flux'. It is OK but needs all surfaces to be

well

cleaned. On the other hand, an aggressive flux like 'Everflux' will

make a

joint without having to clean the joints at all! Some people dislike
agressive fluxes because of their corrosive natures.


And aggresive flux is not recommended when soldering gas pipe runs :-0

I find "Powerflow" from Fry Metals to be a good all round one...

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article , [news]
wrote:

Kevin Brady wrote:
This weekend I'll be practising with the capillary (end feed) joints. Thanks
for the help and encouragement.

On the same topic, part of the pipework will be buried beneath the floor
within a space I've left in the slab. The plumber suggests i simply lag the
pipe in grey foam before burying in sand/cement screed. For this purpose, I
don't want any joints down there. So do I

1. Use copper pipe, single length and bent at each end to come up the wall
either side of the room. Then copper fittings as already discussed.

OR

2. Use plastic pipe for this section, with plastic to copper adaptor each
end (accessible), then copper capillary from then on.


I'd go option 2 in that scenario. in fact, I'd go pushfit and plastic
everywhere
that couldn't be seen and avoid as many joints as possible. yes I can sweat
a joint up but since I don't do it everyday there's a good chance that when
the
water is turned on at the end of a tiring day, there's a leak and you have to
drain the system down and dry the joint out and sweat it up proper.

for the sake of a few quid I take the line of least resistance, every time.



RT

Couldn't agree more. Why anyone would bother with a blow-lamp or
spanner when they can use push fit joints is beyond me. The new copper
type don't even have the disadvantage of being bulky - though they
can't be dismantled. For the cost of a couple of pints, most jobs can
be completed in minutes without the worry, the mess - or the tedium.

NL

"Kevin Brady" wrote in message
...
I'm preparing to carry out extensions to domestic hot & cold water pipes
for a new kitchen & utility.
(A proper plumber is doing anything to do with Gas and central heating
pipes).

This is just a short message to guage support for the various types of
copper pipe fitting available to me.

e.g. Compression, Push Fit (plastic), Push Fit copper (cuprofit), (End
Feed
& Capillary - see below) - any others?

Assume all pipework will be hidden i.e behind/beneath kitchen cupboards,
this does not need to win any beauty contests.

I'm a fairly capable DIYer (and always spend twice as long as I need for
peace of mind), but the thought of solder joints does seem quite daunting.

I have generally bought through screwfix, but happy dealing with plumb
centre, jewsons etc in order to get the lowest cost.

Let the arguments (sorry - debates) begin!!!



Along with everything else that's been said, buy a bl**dy good blow tourch.
Not one from the sheds but go to the plumbers merchants. You will wait all
day for a crap one to heat the pipe. Get a "Turbo Torch" or the likes and
use the yellow tins (cast iron) of gas, think it MAPP gas. Expect to pay
around £45 for one and aroud the house it should last you years. The £10
shed ones are ok for paint stripping and that about all!

i been plumbing for years, but i just tried push fit copper for C.H. i
WAS IMPRESSED especialley where it would be difficult or dangerous to
use a lamp, had 2 failures thats all, because of rough pipe ends rolled
the o ring back, try it its quik clean and safe.
Smudge

In article ,
"simon beer" writes:

Along with everything else that's been said, buy a bl**dy good blow tourch.
Not one from the sheds but go to the plumbers merchants. You will wait all
day for a crap one to heat the pipe. Get a "Turbo Torch" or the likes and
use the yellow tins (cast iron) of gas, think it MAPP gas. Expect to pay
around £45 for one and aroud the house it should last you years. The £10
shed ones are ok for paint stripping and that about all!

I've heard this before, but it isn't my experience. I've used a £10
shed one for all my plumbing (which includes installing a full central
heating system, and redoing all the rest of the plumbing in the house,
all end-feed soldered), and it has no trouble with even 28mm end-feed
T's, which are probably the largest joins I've soldered. If I was a
plumber doing this everyday for a living, I would treat myself to
something better, but for DIY, even installing a full heating system,
a shed blowlamp is fine.

--
Andrew Gabriel

"simon beer" writes:

Along with everything else that's been said, buy a bl**dy good blow
tourch.
Not one from the sheds but go to the plumbers merchants. You will
wait all
day for a crap one to heat the pipe. Get a "Turbo Torch" or the
likes and
use the yellow tins (cast iron) of gas, think it MAPP gas. Expect
to pay
around =A345 for one and aroud the house it should last you years.
The =A310
shed ones are ok for paint stripping and that about all!


I use a flame-o-matic (?) propane torch bought from b&q or wickes & it
does the job just fine. Also I use bits of plasterboard as my flame
proof backing.

"[news]" wrote in message
...

I'd go option 2 in that scenario. in fact,
I'd go pushfit and plastic everywhere
that couldn't be seen

A very foolish thging to do. Best go good quality compression joints and
copper pipe. Only use plastic where is is easier to thread the piping.


_________________________________________
Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server
More than 120,000 groups
Unlimited download
http://www.usenetzone.com to open account

In article ,
Nige wrote:
Couldn't agree more. Why anyone would bother with a blow-lamp or
spanner when they can use push fit joints is beyond me. The new copper
type don't even have the disadvantage of being bulky - though they
can't be dismantled. For the cost of a couple of pints, most jobs can
be completed in minutes without the worry, the mess - or the tedium.

Ah. Some of us DIYers actually enjoy things like plumbing. ;-)

--
*If at first you don't succeed, try management *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
simon beer wrote:
Along with everything else that's been said, buy a bl**dy good blow
tourch. Not one from the sheds but go to the plumbers merchants. You
will wait all day for a crap one to heat the pipe. Get a "Turbo Torch"
or the likes and use the yellow tins (cast iron) of gas, think it MAPP
gas. Expect to pay around £45 for one and aroud the house it should last
you years. The £10 shed ones are ok for paint stripping and that about
all!

I've got an ancient Camping Gaz one which was shed bought and well up to
the job. You don't actually need that much heat, and the broad flame it
produces is ideal for soldering. Think they're still available.

If plumbing in copper for a living, something with a larger canister would
probably be cheaper to run, but more of a pain to carry around.

I did buy one of those ones all the sheds stock now - thinking the press
button ignition and higher temperature gas would be useful for some
things. But it had a slow leak. Changed it, and so did the next one, so I
got a refund. A bit like a cordless tool used infrequently - when you come
to use it, it's flat. ;-)

--
*Hard work pays off in the future. Laziness pays off now *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Doctor Evil wrote:
"[news]" wrote in message
...

I'd go option 2 in that scenario. in fact,
I'd go pushfit and plastic everywhere
that couldn't be seen

A very foolish thging to do.

foolish ?

you really are a provocative little troll, aren't you.



RT

--

take off your trousers to e-mail me
"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"simon beer" writes:

Along with everything else that's been said, buy a bl**dy good blow
tourch.
Not one from the sheds but go to the plumbers merchants. You will wait
all
day for a crap one to heat the pipe. Get a "Turbo Torch" or the likes
and
use the yellow tins (cast iron) of gas, think it MAPP gas. Expect to pay
around £45 for one and aroud the house it should last you years. The £10
shed ones are ok for paint stripping and that about all!

I've heard this before, but it isn't my experience. I've used a £10
shed one for all my plumbing (which includes installing a full central
heating system, and redoing all the rest of the plumbing in the house,
all end-feed soldered), and it has no trouble with even 28mm end-feed
T's, which are probably the largest joins I've soldered. If I was a
plumber doing this everyday for a living, I would treat myself to
something better, but for DIY, even installing a full heating system,
a shed blowlamp is fine.

--


And I have used ordinary drills in the past, around the house purely DIY
without to much hassle. Then I got a Dewalt SDS, enough said!
The cheaper lamps I was always looking for a light, didn't have auto
ignition, was always waiting for them to warm up or else they blew out and
they were inconsistent in use at any angle. And of course there is always
the pleasure in adding a descent tool to the bag, a big boys toy! You know
it makes sense. When you going to use something quite a few times or even
for one big project I consider it worth buying a good tool. I think of it
that I saved X amount by doing it my self so why not, hey I'm worth it. Just
got to convince SWMBO first!!!

"[news]" wrote in message
news
Doctor Evil wrote:
"[news]" wrote in message
...

I'd go option 2 in that scenario. in fact,
I'd go pushfit and plastic everywhere
that couldn't be seen

A very foolish thing to do.

foolish ?

Yes, foolish my good man.



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Doctor Evil wrote:
"[news]" wrote in message
news
Doctor Evil wrote:
"[news]" wrote in message
...

I'd go option 2 in that scenario. in fact,
I'd go pushfit and plastic everywhere
that couldn't be seen

A very foolish thing to do.

foolish ?

Yes, foolish my good man.

whilst not wanting to feed a troll (rather, wanting to draw out an argumentative
person with acces to a PC and the 'net) could you please, for the benefit of
anyone accesing the archive in the future, give the group the benefit of your
wisdom and explain, exactly, why it's better for a self admitted plumbing newbie
to struggle with copper end feed joints, in an inaccesible place, when the perfectly
servicable (and designed for the purpose) pushfit and polypipe solution exists ?



RT

simon beer typed:


Along with everything else that's been said, buy a bl**dy good blow
tourch. Not one from the sheds but go to the plumbers merchants. You
will wait all day for a crap one to heat the pipe. Get a "Turbo
Torch" or the likes and use the yellow tins (cast iron) of gas, think
it MAPP gas. Expect to pay around £45 for one and aroud the house it
should last you years. The £10 shed ones are ok for paint stripping
and that about all!

Odd, I keep a Camping Gaz torch in my toolbox for one off jobs, I works fine
even upto 28mm pipe.
You REALY don't need that much heat to do the job properly.

In article , [news]
wrote:

Doctor Evil wrote:
"[news]" wrote in message
news
Doctor Evil wrote:
"[news]" wrote in message
...

I'd go option 2 in that scenario. in fact,
I'd go pushfit and plastic everywhere
that couldn't be seen

A very foolish thing to do.

foolish ?

Yes, foolish my good man.

whilst not wanting to feed a troll (rather, wanting to draw out an
argumentative
person with acces to a PC and the 'net) could you please, for the benefit of
anyone accesing the archive in the future, give the group the benefit of your
wisdom and explain, exactly, why it's better for a self admitted plumbing
newbie
to struggle with copper end feed joints, in an inaccesible place, when the
perfectly
servicable (and designed for the purpose) pushfit and polypipe solution exists ?



RT


Quite.

I think it's probably some kind of DIY rite of passage. Naked flames
and flux - that sort of thing. A chap near me has actually been round
his house lifting floorboards and climbing in and out of his loft
replacing all the push-fit joints the previous owner had used. This,
despite the fact that none of them had caused the slightest problem -
or was likely to.

He's good with barbecues too...

NL

"Nige" wrote in message
...
In article , [news]
wrote:

Doctor Evil wrote:
"[news]" wrote in message
news Doctor Evil wrote:
"[news]" wrote in message
...

I'd go option 2 in that scenario. in fact,
I'd go pushfit and plastic everywhere
that couldn't be seen

A very foolish thing to do.

foolish ?

Yes, foolish my good man.

whilst not wanting to feed a troll (rather, wanting to draw out an
argumentative
person with acces to a PC and the 'net) could you please, for the
benefit of
anyone accesing the archive in the future, give the group the benefit of
your
wisdom and explain, exactly, why it's better for a self admitted
plumbing
newbie
to struggle with copper end feed joints, in an inaccesible place, when
the
perfectly
servicable (and designed for the purpose) pushfit and polypipe solution
exists ?

Quite.

I think it's probably some kind of DIY rite of passage. Naked flames
and flux - that sort of thing. A chap near me has actually been round
his house lifting floorboards and climbing in and out of his loft
replacing all the push-fit joints the previous owner had used.

Wise man.


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"[news]" wrote in message
...
Doctor Evil wrote:
"[news]" wrote in message
news
Doctor Evil wrote:
"[news]" wrote in message
...

I'd go option 2 in that scenario. in fact,
I'd go pushfit and plastic everywhere
that couldn't be seen

A very foolish thing to do.

foolish ?

Yes, foolish my good man.

whilst not wanting to feed a troll (rather, wanting to draw out an
argumentative
person with acces to a PC and the 'net) could you please, for the benefit
of
anyone accesing the archive in the future, give the group the benefit of
your
wisdom and explain, exactly, why it's better for a self admitted plumbing
newbie
to struggle with copper end feed joints, in an inaccesible place, when the
perfectly
servicable (and designed for the purpose) pushfit and polypipe solution
exists ?

Do a Google on plastic pipes and IMM the author. Enlightening.




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http://www.usenetzone.com to open account

In article , Doctor Evil
writes


Do a Google on plastic pipes and IMM the author. Enlightening.

John, don't post misleading messages, its not nice
--
David

In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
Do a Google on plastic pipes and IMM the author. Enlightening.

Would that point us to hacksaws and leaking joints?

--
*What boots up must come down *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.