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Old March 17th 05, 01:47 PM
Kevin Brady
 
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Default Best Pipe fittings for DIY plumbing?

I'm preparing to carry out extensions to domestic hot & cold water pipes
for a new kitchen & utility.
(A proper plumber is doing anything to do with Gas and central heating
pipes).

This is just a short message to guage support for the various types of
copper pipe fitting available to me.

e.g. Compression, Push Fit (plastic), Push Fit copper (cuprofit), (End Feed
& Capillary - see below) - any others?

Assume all pipework will be hidden i.e behind/beneath kitchen cupboards,
this does not need to win any beauty contests.

I'm a fairly capable DIYer (and always spend twice as long as I need for
peace of mind), but the thought of solder joints does seem quite daunting.

I have generally bought through screwfix, but happy dealing with plumb
centre, jewsons etc in order to get the lowest cost.

Let the arguments (sorry - debates) begin!!!


--
KEVIN BRADY, Oxford
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Old March 17th 05, 01:57 PM
Dave
 
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Default


"Kevin Brady" wrote in message
...
I'm preparing to carry out extensions to domestic hot & cold water pipes
for a new kitchen & utility.
(A proper plumber is doing anything to do with Gas and central heating
pipes).

This is just a short message to guage support for the various types of
copper pipe fitting available to me.

e.g. Compression, Push Fit (plastic), Push Fit copper (cuprofit), (End

Feed
& Capillary - see below) - any others?

Assume all pipework will be hidden i.e behind/beneath kitchen cupboards,
this does not need to win any beauty contests.

I'm a fairly capable DIYer (and always spend twice as long as I need for
peace of mind), but the thought of solder joints does seem quite daunting.

get a couple of solder fittings and a bit of pipe and try it - it's very
easy, just make sure the fittings and pipe are clean (wire wool) and use
flux. You'll be soon wondering why you thought it'd be difficult.


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Old March 17th 05, 02:15 PM
Kevin Brady
 
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Default

Fine - I'll give it a go, I've always enjoyed playing with flames - please
tell me I'll need a big welders mask for something this hardcore.

Sorry - seriously, end feed or capillary ?(is capillary easier/less likely
to leak?)


--
KEVIN BRADY, Oxford
_____________________
replies to newsgroup only
mail to reply address is automatically deleted from server
"Dave" wrote in message
...

"Kevin Brady" wrote in message
...
I'm preparing to carry out extensions to domestic hot & cold water pipes
for a new kitchen & utility.
(A proper plumber is doing anything to do with Gas and central heating
pipes).

This is just a short message to guage support for the various types of
copper pipe fitting available to me.

e.g. Compression, Push Fit (plastic), Push Fit copper (cuprofit), (End

Feed
& Capillary - see below) - any others?

Assume all pipework will be hidden i.e behind/beneath kitchen cupboards,
this does not need to win any beauty contests.

I'm a fairly capable DIYer (and always spend twice as long as I need for
peace of mind), but the thought of solder joints does seem quite
daunting.

get a couple of solder fittings and a bit of pipe and try it - it's very
easy, just make sure the fittings and pipe are clean (wire wool) and use
flux. You'll be soon wondering why you thought it'd be difficult.




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Old March 17th 05, 02:28 PM
 
Posts: n/a
Default


Kevin Brady wrote:
Fine - I'll give it a go, I've always enjoyed playing with flames -

please
tell me I'll need a big welders mask for something this hardcore.

Sorry - seriously, end feed or capillary ?(is capillary easier/less

likely
to leak?)



I always use the regular non ready soldered types unless I'm doing an
upside-down joint in an inaccessible area.

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Old March 17th 05, 02:32 PM
The Wanderer
 
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Default

On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 14:15:10 +0000 (UTC), Kevin Brady wrote:

Fine - I'll give it a go, I've always enjoyed playing with flames - please
tell me I'll need a big welders mask for something this hardcore.

Sorry - seriously, end feed or capillary ?(is capillary easier/less likely
to leak?)


Yup, I'd second what Dave said. For a DIYer, I'd go for Yorkshire fittings,
and above all else, make sure you clean everything properly, and apply
flux. Yes, I know that's what he said as well.....

I always tend to feed a little plumbers' solder as well into the end of the
Yorkshire fitting. You might also find it useful to look for a glass fibre
protective mat. Shouldn't cost more than a pound or two from your local
plumbers' merchant, saves scorching the joists or adjacent cupboard panels
if you've got a bit of residual water in a horizontal run, and you're
swearing and cursing coz the fitting won't solder properly. :-))

I'd been told years ago that any fool could make decent plumbing joints
using capilliary fittings; unfortunately my mentors never thought to
mention how important it is to clean the fittings, so first time I tried it
(moving a header tank in the loft so I had a useful area to board out)
there was water everywhere when I turned the supply back on.

Experience gained is directly proportional to the damage sustained!

--
the dot wanderer at tesco dot net


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Old March 17th 05, 02:53 PM
Kevin Brady
 
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Default

This weekend I'll be practising with the capillary (end feed) joints. Thanks
for the help and encouragement.

On the same topic, part of the pipework will be buried beneath the floor
within a space I've left in the slab. The plumber suggests i simply lag the
pipe in grey foam before burying in sand/cement screed. For this purpose, I
don't want any joints down there. So do I

1. Use copper pipe, single length and bent at each end to come up the wall
either side of the room. Then copper fittings as already discussed.

OR

2. Use plastic pipe for this section, with plastic to copper adaptor each
end (accessible), then copper capillary from then on.

Many thanks for my ongoing benefit of your experience.


--
KEVIN BRADY, Oxford
_____________________
replies to newsgroup only
mail to reply address is automatically deleted from server
"The Wanderer" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 14:15:10 +0000 (UTC), Kevin Brady wrote:

Fine - I'll give it a go, I've always enjoyed playing with flames -
please
tell me I'll need a big welders mask for something this hardcore.

Sorry - seriously, end feed or capillary ?(is capillary easier/less
likely
to leak?)


Yup, I'd second what Dave said. For a DIYer, I'd go for Yorkshire
fittings,
and above all else, make sure you clean everything properly, and apply
flux. Yes, I know that's what he said as well.....

I always tend to feed a little plumbers' solder as well into the end of
the
Yorkshire fitting. You might also find it useful to look for a glass fibre
protective mat. Shouldn't cost more than a pound or two from your local
plumbers' merchant, saves scorching the joists or adjacent cupboard panels
if you've got a bit of residual water in a horizontal run, and you're
swearing and cursing coz the fitting won't solder properly. :-))

I'd been told years ago that any fool could make decent plumbing joints
using capilliary fittings; unfortunately my mentors never thought to
mention how important it is to clean the fittings, so first time I tried
it
(moving a header tank in the loft so I had a useful area to board out)
there was water everywhere when I turned the supply back on.

Experience gained is directly proportional to the damage sustained!

--
the dot wanderer at tesco dot net



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Old March 17th 05, 02:59 PM
Cuprager
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Kevin Brady wrote:
I'm preparing to carry out extensions to domestic hot & cold water pipes
for a new kitchen & utility.
(A proper plumber is doing anything to do with Gas and central heating
pipes).

This is just a short message to guage support for the various types of
copper pipe fitting available to me.

e.g. Compression, Push Fit (plastic), Push Fit copper (cuprofit), (End Feed
& Capillary - see below) - any others?

Assume all pipework will be hidden i.e behind/beneath kitchen cupboards,
this does not need to win any beauty contests.

I'm a fairly capable DIYer (and always spend twice as long as I need for
peace of mind), but the thought of solder joints does seem quite daunting.

I have generally bought through screwfix, but happy dealing with plumb
centre, jewsons etc in order to get the lowest cost.

Let the arguments (sorry - debates) begin!!!


I felt exactly the same as you with regard to being a little wary of
soldered joints. I had a mate show me the basics though, (clean pipe &
fittings with wire wool, fine emery paper etc) and i used solder ring
fittings. Easy! The advice about using a heatproof mat is good, i was
soldering radiator pipework underneath floor level so i dampened down
the area first, then put down the mat. Overkill probably but i dont like
house fires!

Give it a go on some test bits first to get the idea and you will be fine!
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Old March 17th 05, 03:16 PM
Dave Plowman (News)
 
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Default

In article ,
Kevin Brady wrote:
Fine - I'll give it a go, I've always enjoyed playing with flames -
please tell me I'll need a big welders mask for something this hardcore.


No. Nor do you really need gloves - although you might need to support the
pipes until the solder has set. Protective eye wear is a sensible
precaution will all DIY, though.

Sorry - seriously, end feed or capillary ?(is capillary easier/less
likely to leak?)


End feed bought in bulk are a fraction of the price. So experiment with
those.

--
*Learn from your parents' mistakes - use birth control

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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Old March 17th 05, 03:17 PM
John Rumm
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Kevin Brady wrote:

Fine - I'll give it a go, I've always enjoyed playing with flames - please
tell me I'll need a big welders mask for something this hardcore.


Well if you insist, yes.... only don't wear it while trying to solder
cos you won't be able to see a blinking thing!

Sorry - seriously, end feed or capillary ?(is capillary easier/less likely
to leak?)


By capillary I take it you mean solder ring?

(end feed and solder ring (aka Yorkshire fittings) are both capillary
fittings - that is how the solder gets drawn into the joint)

Solder ring is generally thought of as being easier - clean, flux, heat,
wait for a nice bright ring of solder to appear at the end of the
fitting, stop heating, don't let it move while cooling.

End feed is cheaper and looks neater, and once you have managed to ween
yourself away from the "simplicity" of solder ring fittings you actually
find that they are not any harder to use (unless you are working in
really confined spaces and can only get enough hands to the job to hold
a blowtorch OR solder but not both!).

Once you have the technique sorted (i.e. cleaning and making the joint,
then how much heat for how long), both are very reliable. The extra
manufacturing complexity of the solder ring fitting _may_result in a
higher failure rate as a result of defects in the fitting.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/
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Old March 17th 05, 03:21 PM
Dave Plowman (News)
 
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Default

In article ,
The Wanderer wrote:
Yup, I'd second what Dave said. For a DIYer, I'd go for Yorkshire
fittings, and above all else, make sure you clean everything properly,
and apply flux. Yes, I know that's what he said as well.....


I always tend to feed a little plumbers' solder as well into the end of
the Yorkshire fitting.


Then there really is no point in using expensive Yorkshires. They're
approx 2.5 times the price in bulk.

If you practice with end feed, then take one apart, you'll find all the
pipe is tinned, so end feed capillary really does all that is needed.

--
*If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.


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