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  #41   Report Post  
Andy Hall
 
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On Sun, 20 Mar 2005 21:25:33 -0000, "Doctor Evil"
wrote:




Do a Google on plastic pipes and IMM the author. Enlightening.



As an object lesson in what not to do, and what goes wrong when you
don't read the instructions .......



--

..andy

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  #42   Report Post  
Andrew McKay
 
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On Sun, 20 Mar 2005 23:37:07 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

Do a Google on plastic pipes and IMM the author. Enlightening.


Would that point us to hacksaws and leaking joints?


More likely old sore and leaking brain.

Andrew


  #43   Report Post  
Doctor Evil
 
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"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:


Do a Google on plastic pipes
and IMM the author. Enlightening.


.......our DIY caber maker is here gain...to impart widom to us all?......let
us see....

Would that point us to hacksaws
and leaking joints?


....yes, that is what he said.......yes, you did read correctly.....not one
ounce of wisdom whatsoever.....he must make some cabers......



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  #44   Report Post  
Dave Plowman (News)
 
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In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:


Do a Google on plastic pipes
and IMM the author. Enlightening.


......our DIY caber maker is here gain...to impart widom to us
all?......let us see....


So you don't know how to read posts as well as all your other failings?
Is there no end to your flaws?

Would that point us to hacksaws and leaking joints?


...yes, that is what he said.......yes, you did read correctly.....not
one ounce of wisdom whatsoever.....he must make some cabers......


Now it's possible a saw would be some use there. But not for cutting
plastic pipes where you're going to use push on fittings. Haven't you
learnt anything off websites?

--
*Am I ambivalent? Well, yes and no.

Dave Plowman London SW
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  #45   Report Post  
John Rumm
 
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Doctor Evil wrote:

he must make some cabers......


Why? Fancy youself as a tosser?

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/


  #46   Report Post  
raden
 
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In message , John
Rumm writes
Doctor Evil wrote:

he must make some cabers......


Why? Fancy youself as a tosser?

He should do, everyone else does

--
geoff
  #47   Report Post  
Doctor Evil
 
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"raden" wrote in message
...
In message , John
Rumm writes
Doctor Evil wrote:

he must make some cabers......


Why? Fancy youself as a tosser?

He should do, everyone else does


Maxie, you are a one. Comeding yet again. What would we do without you!


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  #48   Report Post  
Doctor Evil
 
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"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Doctor Evil wrote:

he must make some cabers......


Why? Fancy youself as a tosser?


No thanks, there are enough ******* already on this ng.


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  #49   Report Post  
raden
 
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In message , Doctor Evil
writes

"raden" wrote in message
...
In message , John
Rumm writes
Doctor Evil wrote:

he must make some cabers......

Why? Fancy youself as a tosser?

He should do, everyone else does


Maxie, you are a one. Comeding yet again. What would we do without you!

I don't think that it would change the general opinion that you're a
tosser
--
geoff
  #50   Report Post  
Doctor Evil
 
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"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...


...yes, that is what he said.......yes,
you did read correctly.....not
one ounce of wisdom whatsoever.....he
must make some cabers......


Now it's possible a saw would be some
use there.


.......yes he is on about his saws.....cabering must be an exact
skill....most use an axe to cut them.....yes, he uses a saw....some caber
maker......and he is fully versed at being a tosser too.........




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  #51   Report Post  
Kevin Brady
 
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This was meant to be a thread on plumbing tips guys, keep the attitude
for the playground - it's pretty boring for everyone else.

--
KEVIN BRADY, Oxford
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"Doctor Evil" wrote in message
...

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Doctor Evil wrote:

he must make some cabers......


Why? Fancy youself as a tosser?


No thanks, there are enough ******* already on this ng.


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  #52   Report Post  
Dave Plowman (News)
 
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In article ,
Steve Firth wrote:
Sadly copper
tube is getting harder and thinner walled in most DIY sheds so bending
with a spring is getting more difficult. Not impossible, but difficult
and it takes a bit of practice. Pipe benders I found to be less
satisfactory.


I know what you mean - perhaps for a gentle curve to clear an obstacle.

Some say heating the pipe to anneal it first works with modern tube. I've
not tried it.

--
*Do infants enjoy infancy as much as adults enjoy adultery?

Dave Plowman London SW
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  #53   Report Post  
Doctor Evil
 
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"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Kevin Brady wrote:
This was meant to be a thread on plumbing tips guys, keep the
attitude for the playground


But this is the playground for some?


......and an outlet for idiots for some too......



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  #54   Report Post  
Chris Bacon
 
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Steve Firth wrote:
I also make judicious use of a bending spring,
essential where you encounter joists in the wrong place. Sadly copper
tube is getting harder and thinner walled in most DIY sheds so bending
with a spring is getting more difficult. Not impossible, but difficult
and it takes a bit of practice.


Anneal the stuff as discussed here some time back. Heat the bit of
tube where you want to bend it, and a bit on each side, to redness,
then dunk it in cold water or play water on it to cool. It will
then be soft enough to bend easily.
  #55   Report Post  
:::Jerry::::
 
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"Doctor Evil" wrote in message
...
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...

snip

But this is the playground for some?


.....and an outlet for idiots for some too......


Or in your case, both !




  #56   Report Post  
Dave Plowman (News)
 
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In article ,
Steve Firth wrote:
Yes, exactly that. This house has wallplates everywhere and it's lsited
so the LBO doesn't approve of drilling a 20mm hole through a 300 year
old oak beam in order to lay in pipe. So any vertical riser has to have
a slight offset to get it around the timber. I've got good at it now and
can turn out matched pairs of tube that look good.

Some say heating the pipe to anneal it first works with modern tube.
I've not tried it.


Me neither, fortunately I'm not trying for a right angled bend. If I
were simply trying to save on fittings I would get a pipe bender, but
IMO the large radius of the curve makes tubes bent in a bender unsightly
if used where they can be seen.


I'd sort of thought the radius of the bend a pipe bender makes is about
the tightest that is safe for a pipe bent cold? And if you need tighter,
you use elbows or bends?

The great beauty of a bender, of course, is that it can be used near
anywhere in the tube. Some say you can bend a right angle in the middle of
the tube using a spring and retrieve it, but the one and only time I tried
I couldn't. ;-)

--
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Dave Plowman London SW
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  #57   Report Post  
Pete C
 
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On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 14:47:29 +0000, (Steve Firth)
wrote:

Chris Bacon wrote:

Steve Firth wrote:
I also make judicious use of a bending spring,
essential where you encounter joists in the wrong place. Sadly copper
tube is getting harder and thinner walled in most DIY sheds so bending
with a spring is getting more difficult. Not impossible, but difficult
and it takes a bit of practice.


Anneal the stuff as discussed here some time back. Heat the bit of
tube where you want to bend it, and a bit on each side, to redness,
then dunk it in cold water or play water on it to cool. It will
then be soft enough to bend easily.


Do you also want to teach my grandmother how to evacuate ova using a
partial depression of atmospheric pressure?

Because if you do you'll have to dig her up first.


plonk!
  #58   Report Post  
Chris Bacon
 
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Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Some say you can bend a right angle in the middle of the tube
using a spring and retrieve it, but the one and only time I tried
I couldn't. ;-)


Bend it a bit more than you need, then "unbend" it. Springs are nice
for large swept bends that are just about visible, e.g. under basins.
  #59   Report Post  
Dave Plowman (News)
 
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In article ,
Chris Bacon wrote:
Some say you can bend a right angle in the middle of the tube
using a spring and retrieve it, but the one and only time I tried
I couldn't. ;-)


Bend it a bit more than you need, then "unbend" it. Springs are nice
for large swept bends that are just about visible, e.g. under basins.


Yup - fine for that. But before I had a bender I tried doing the sort of
tight bend you get with those, and couldn't retrieve the spring.

--
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Dave Plowman London SW
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  #60   Report Post  
[news]
 
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Chris Bacon wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Some say you can bend a right angle in the middle of the tube
using a spring and retrieve it, but the one and only time I tried
I couldn't. ;-)


Bend it a bit more than you need, then "unbend" it. Springs are nice
for large swept bends that are just about visible, e.g. under basins.


ever heard of braided flexis ? :-)

bah humbug, I reccon everyone ought to revert to filling tube wi'
sand and bending it tha way us forebears used to....



RT




  #61   Report Post  
Dave Plowman (News)
 
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In article ,
[news] wrote:
Bend it a bit more than you need, then "unbend" it. Springs are nice
for large swept bends that are just about visible, e.g. under basins.


ever heard of braided flexis ? :-)


I was told to keep flow resistance to a minimum, to keep noise down. Of
course perhaps not a problem with a tap connection.

bah humbug, I reccon everyone ought to revert to filling tube wi'
sand and bending it tha way us forebears used to....


Works very well too.

--
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Dave Plowman London SW
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  #62   Report Post  
[news]
 
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Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
[news] wrote:
Bend it a bit more than you need, then "unbend" it. Springs are nice
for large swept bends that are just about visible, e.g. under basins.


ever heard of braided flexis ? :-)


I was told to keep flow resistance to a minimum, to keep noise down. Of
course perhaps not a problem with a tap connection.


depends if they are ceramic mixers on the end of poorly affixed copper.

bah humbug, I reccon everyone ought to revert to filling tube wi'
sand and bending it tha way us forebears used to....


Works very well too.


for people in the 40s. me ? I'm in the noughties.



RT



  #63   Report Post  
raden
 
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In message , Kevin Brady
writes
This was meant to be a thread on plumbing tips guys, keep the attitude
for the playground - it's pretty boring for everyone else.

Bugger off, we are anarchist plumbers mates and we've hijacked the
thread, go and start another one

--
geoff
  #64   Report Post  
Andrew Gabriel
 
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In article ,
"Dave Plowman (News)" writes:
In article ,
Steve Firth wrote:
Some say heating the pipe to anneal it first works with modern tube.
I've not tried it.


It makes a difference. Not having a pipe bender for 28mm copper tube,
I fell back to using traditional methods. Anneal the pipe only where
you want it to bend, pack it full of dry sand (molten lead is another
option, but a bit more messy;-). Support the pipe either side of the
bend on something soft (sand bags in my case), and gently step on the
pipe at the point where you want it to bend. Worked perfectly, and it
only bent at the anneal point, very nicely without crumpling.

Me neither, fortunately I'm not trying for a right angled bend. If I
were simply trying to save on fittings I would get a pipe bender, but
IMO the large radius of the curve makes tubes bent in a bender unsightly
if used where they can be seen.


If you have a pipe following the corner of a room, I agree. If you are
referring to an offset for a radiator tail, I prefer the smooth bends
of a pipe bender. Where a bend is out of sight, I'll use a pipe bender
unless it makes the job much harder as it's generally fewer pipe joints,
and the swept curve is lower resistance than an elbow (although not as
much lower as you might guess).

I'd sort of thought the radius of the bend a pipe bender makes is about
the tightest that is safe for a pipe bent cold? And if you need tighter,
you use elbows or bends?

The great beauty of a bender, of course, is that it can be used near
anywhere in the tube. Some say you can bend a right angle in the middle of
the tube using a spring and retrieve it, but the one and only time I tried
I couldn't. ;-)


One slight drawback of a pipe bender is it can only bend with one radius
(at least, I've never seen formers for larger radiuses for same size pipe).
Once or twice, when I've had a pair of pipes to bend in the same plane,
my geometric mind wants the nested bends to have a common centre point
in space, which you can't do as the outer one would need a bending radius
equal to the inner pipe's bending radius plus the pipe spacing. You could
do this with a spring bender. Once I did it by using an elbow for the
inner bend and pipe bender for the outer bend, but that was dictated by
circumstance, not for aesthetic reasons.

--
Andrew Gabriel
  #65   Report Post  
Doctor Evil
 
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"raden" wrote in message
...
In message , Doctor Evil
writes

"raden" wrote in message
...
In message , John
Rumm writes
Doctor Evil wrote:

he must make some cabers......

Why? Fancy youself as a tosser?

He should do, everyone else does


Maxie, you are a one. Comeding yet again. What would we do without you!

I don't think that it would change the general opinion that you're a
tosser


Maxie, I am not into cabering. You know that.


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  #66   Report Post  
raden
 
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In message , Doctor Evil
writes

"raden" wrote in message
...
In message , Doctor Evil
writes

"raden" wrote in message
...
In message , John
Rumm writes
Doctor Evil wrote:

he must make some cabers......

Why? Fancy youself as a tosser?

He should do, everyone else does

Maxie, you are a one. Comeding yet again. What would we do without you!

I don't think that it would change the general opinion that you're a
tosser


Maxie, I am not into cabering. You know that.


You're also bugger all use at plumbing, aren't you

--
geoff
  #67   Report Post  
Chris Bacon
 
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[news] wrote:
Chris Bacon wrote:
Springs are nice
for large swept bends that are just about visible, e.g. under basins.


ever heard of braided flexis ? :-)


Yes, they're horrible looking (and restrict flow).
  #68   Report Post  
Chris Bacon
 
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Andrew Gabriel wrote:

Anneal the pipe only where
you want it to bend, pack it full of dry sand (molten lead is another
option, but a bit more messy;-).


Erm, molten lead? How is that going to work?
  #69   Report Post  
GB
 
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"Chris Bacon" wrote in message
...

Anneal the stuff as discussed here some time back. Heat the bit of
tube where you want to bend it, and a bit on each side, to redness,
then dunk it in cold water or play water on it to cool. It will
then be soft enough to bend easily.


That's interesting. Never tried this before. What do you mean by redness?
Copper tube is naturally an orange colour, so it's not particularly obvious
(to me).



  #70   Report Post  
Doctor Evil
 
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"GB" wrote in message
...

"Chris Bacon" wrote in message
...

Anneal the stuff as discussed here some time back. Heat the bit of
tube where you want to bend it, and a bit on each side, to redness,
then dunk it in cold water or play water on it to cool. It will
then be soft enough to bend easily.


That's interesting. Never tried this before. What do you mean by redness?
Copper tube is naturally an orange colour, so it's not particularly

obvious
(to me).


You heat the pipe with a powerfukl blowtorch (best use two) until "cherry
red" and then quench it in water. It has to be cooled immediately.


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  #71   Report Post  
Chris Bacon
 
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GB wrote:

"Chris Bacon" wrote...
Anneal the stuff as discussed here some time back. Heat the bit of
tube where you want to bend it, and a bit on each side, to redness,
then dunk it in cold water or play water on it to cool. It will
then be soft enough to bend easily.


That's interesting. Never tried this before. What do you mean by redness?
Copper tube is naturally an orange colour, so it's not particularly obvious
(to me).


Until it's red hot. As you heat the tube, it will blacken in your gas
flame - when you play the flame on the tube & you see a coppery patch
in the flame, that's hot enough - you can look at the tube in dim light
'till you get the hang of it.
  #72   Report Post  
Chris Bacon
 
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Doctor Evil wrote:
"GB" wrote...
"Chris Bacon" wrote...
(annealing copper)

That's interesting. Never tried this before. What do you mean by redness?
Copper tube is naturally an orange colour, so it's not particularly
obvious (to me).


You heat the pipe with a powerfukl blowtorch (best use two) until "cherry
red" and then quench it in water. It has to be cooled immediately.


Hi Doctor Evil, if you quench the tube straight away, it makes it easier
to clean off the black oxide, however the annealing effect will happen
anyway if you just let the tube cool. This is much slower, though.
Quenching of steel, for instance, is a different matter.
  #73   Report Post  
Chris Bacon
 
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Chris Bacon wrote:
GB wrote:
"Chris Bacon" wrote...
Anneal the stuff as discussed here some time back. Heat the bit of
tube where you want to bend it, and a bit on each side, to redness,
then dunk it in cold water or play water on it to cool. It will
then be soft enough to bend easily.


That's interesting. Never tried this before. What do you mean by
redness? Copper tube is naturally an orange colour, so it's not
particularly obvious (to me).


Until it's red hot. As you heat the tube, it will blacken in your gas
flame - when you play the flame on the tube & you see a coppery patch
in the flame, that's hot enough - you can look at the tube in dim light
'till you get the hang of it.


I re-open this to mention that when you bend the annealed copper, it
will harden. You can anneal it again if this is a problem, however
avoid "working" the metal excessively.
  #74   Report Post  
Dave Plowman (News)
 
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In article ,
GB wrote:
That's interesting. Never tried this before. What do you mean by
redness? Copper tube is naturally an orange colour, so it's not
particularly obvious (to me).



If you do it in not too bright lighting, etc, it will be obvious when it
glows red hot.

--
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Dave Plowman London SW
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  #75   Report Post  
Dave Plowman (News)
 
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In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
You heat the pipe with a powerfukl blowtorch (best use two) until "cherry
red" and then quench it in water. It has to be cooled immediately.


Doesn't make any difference with copper. Although you'll be able to handle
it more quickly.

--
*Elephants are the only mammals that can't jump *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.


  #76   Report Post  
Doctor Evil
 
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"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:


You heat the pipe with a powerful blowtorch
(best use two) until "cherry red" and then
quench it in water. It has to be cooled immediately.


....once again he intejects....yes, he does...and he says....

Doesn't make any difference with copper.
Although you'll be able to handle
it more quickly.


....of course total and utter bunkem....was spaketh...what should be done
is...
"You heat the pipe with a powerful blowtorch (best use two) until "cherry
red" and then quench it in water. It has to be cooled immediately."

.......now that is much better.....I wonder if they have copper cabers.....



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  #77   Report Post  
Dave Plowman (News)
 
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In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
"You heat the pipe with a powerful blowtorch (best use two) until "cherry
red" and then quench it in water. It has to be cooled immediately."


Go back to being the international man of misinformation. It suited you
better.

What's your doctorate in? Certainly not metallurgy.

--
*Gravity is a myth, the earth sucks *

Dave Plowman London SW
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  #78   Report Post  
:::Jerry::::
 
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"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
"You heat the pipe with a powerful blowtorch (best use two) until

"cherry
red" and then quench it in water. It has to be cooled

immediately."

Go back to being the international man of misinformation. It suited

you
better.

What's your doctorate in? Certainly not metallurgy.


Surely you don't expect him to understand language like that Dave, he
probably thinks you're referring to some form of illness !... :~(



  #79   Report Post  
raden
 
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In message , ":::Jerry::::"
writes

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
"You heat the pipe with a powerful blowtorch (best use two) until

"cherry
red" and then quench it in water. It has to be cooled

immediately."

Go back to being the international man of misinformation. It suited

you
better.

What's your doctorate in? Certainly not metallurgy.


Surely you don't expect him to understand language like that Dave, he
probably thinks you're referring to some form of illness !... :~(

I'm not so sure, I'm convinced that cognitive processes of any sort are,
in general, way beyond him


--
geoff
  #80   Report Post  
Andrew Gabriel
 
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In article ,
Chris Bacon writes:
Andrew Gabriel wrote:

Anneal the pipe only where
you want it to bend, pack it full of dry sand (molten lead is another
option, but a bit more messy;-).


Erm, molten lead? How is that going to work?


Copper tube was filled with it and capped off at both ends
during bending. The non-compressibility of the lead prevented
the tube collapsing during bending -- same effect as for dry
sand. I think molten lead was used (as opposed to water, say)
so the tube could be continually annealed during bending which
would be impossible with any liquid which boiled below
copper's annealing temperature. (I've got an old book on
copper tubing which describes this, but it's currently
stored in a box in different house, so this is from memory.)

--
Andrew Gabriel
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