Ok, not DIY, but it's the sort of thing some people here will have
knowledge about. given the increasing in flooding we've seen, and
predictions for increased frequency in the future, this seems to be
something to take seriously. Esp. as I suspect it's something insurance
co.'s now have a 'thing' about.

There is a good possibility that we may be moving from Leeds to the
Cambridge/Huntingdon area this year, depending on how SWMBO's new job
hunting goes.

We've been on the web of course having a look at potential houses, now
of course being where it is, quite a lot of those are on the Fens (We
are looking for a country property). On the face of it potentially, an
area prone to flooding, however, in the recent floods, it's somewhere
that I remember having a lot of problems, presumably, because of the
nature of the place, the drainage etc. systems are already in place to
deal with it -to an extent anyway.

so I've been trying to find some info on this, but haven't found much
really helpful.

The environment agency does have maps with flooding risks, but the
current ones take no account of flood defences etc., so of course the
fens are all coloured blue as a flood risk, not very helpful.

anyone have knowledge of this, or can point me to source of info?
--
Chris French, Leeds

"chris French" wrote in message
...
Ok, not DIY, but it's the sort of thing some people here will have
knowledge about. given the increasing in flooding we've seen, and
predictions for increased frequency in the future, this seems to be
something to take seriously. Esp. as I suspect it's something insurance
co.'s now have a 'thing' about.

There is a good possibility that we may be moving from Leeds to the
Cambridge/Huntingdon area this year, depending on how SWMBO's new job
hunting goes.

We've been on the web of course having a look at potential houses, now
of course being where it is, quite a lot of those are on the Fens (We
are looking for a country property). On the face of it potentially, an
area prone to flooding, however, in the recent floods, it's somewhere
that I remember having a lot of problems, presumably, because of the
nature of the place, the drainage etc. systems are already in place to
deal with it -to an extent anyway.

so I've been trying to find some info on this, but haven't found much
really helpful.

The environment agency does have maps with flooding risks, but the
current ones take no account of flood defences etc., so of course the
fens are all coloured blue as a flood risk, not very helpful.

anyone have knowledge of this, or can point me to source of info?

One of the insurance companies (I think Norwich Union) has done a much more
detailed anaylsis of flood risk. They hope to get an edge on the competition
by offereing lower premiums to houses where local conditions reduce the
risk. They may be able to help. Even just getting a quote from them might be
a good indication of the risk.

The other way is to look yourself for any small rises in the ground that
might indicate a reduced risk. You may be able to find that from spot
heights on a large scale OS map of the area. Also old churches tend to be
built on ground that is more likely to remain dry in the worst winters, so
buying next to the village church may well reduce the risk of flooding,
although it greatly increases your risk of wanting to strangle bell-ringers.

However, if I had to live in the flat, uninteresting and wind-swept part of
the country, I would probably follow the example of one farmer and build a
large embankment around my house and garden.

Colin Bignell

chris French wrote:
Ok, not DIY, but it's the sort of thing some people here will have
knowledge about. given the increasing in flooding we've seen, and
predictions for increased frequency in the future, this seems to be
something to take seriously. Esp. as I suspect it's something insurance
co.'s now have a 'thing' about.

Has anyone tried building a house on a raft?
Say a meter of polystyrene in a steel structure, with the house on top.

We've been on the web of course having a look at potential houses, now
of course being where it is, quite a lot of those are on the Fens (We
are looking for a country property). On the face of it potentially, an
area prone to flooding, however, in the recent floods, it's somewhere
that I remember having a lot of problems, presumably, because of the
nature of the place, the drainage etc. systems are already in place to
deal with it -to an extent anyway.

NFU Mutual are the insurers you will probably end up with cos they
know about the countryside, do not panic at sight of the environment
agency map and put up their premiums to scare you off. I'd speak to
them about any houses you are interested in.

I would think that (in general) the Fens is well prepared for water,
with good flood defences in place. The places which have suffered from
recent flooding problems have been those where acres of farmland have
been covered in concrete

The other way is to look yourself for any small rises in the ground that
might indicate a reduced risk.

And as a rule of thumb, the oldest houses will be built on the prime
spots so now is the time to buy an ancient hovel with lots of DIY
potential and there are lots of them out in the Fens

Anna


~~ Anna Kettle, Suffolk, England
|""""| ~ Plaster conservation and lime plaster repair
/ ^^ \ // Freehand modelling in lime: overmantels, pargeting etc
|____| www.kettlenet.co.uk 01359 230642

Has anyone tried building a house on a raft?

I believe the Dutch have started doing that, complete with articulated
utility services and so forth.

Christian.

"chris French" wrote in message
...
Ok, not DIY, but it's the sort of thing some people here will have
knowledge about. given the increasing in flooding we've seen, and
predictions for increased frequency in the future, this seems to be
something to take seriously. Esp. as I suspect it's something insurance
co.'s now have a 'thing' about.

There is a good possibility that we may be moving from Leeds to the
Cambridge/Huntingdon area this year, depending on how SWMBO's new job
hunting goes.
anyone have knowledge of this, or can point me to source of info?

If you want to know about specific locations, you could do worse than ask
on cam.misc

Ben

On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 23:29:29 +0100, chris French
wrote:


anyone have knowledge of this, or can point me to source of info?
I can confirm what Colin said, it is Norwich Union who have the
database on flood risk. It's not exactly in the public domain but they
are making it available to the research community. To that end, they
gave a presentation on it at my University recently, although I was
unable to attend myself. A colleague did, however, so when he's back
from the States next week I'll find out from him how detailed their
database is.
Generally the fens are close to or below sea level anyway, and the
water table is lowered by artificial drainage. One problem that can
occur, is that at high tide, the sluice gates may have to be kept
closed to prevent sea water getting into the rivers. River levels can
then back up and cause flooding problems usptream. This happened to my
parents house in Suffolk a couple of times during exeptionally high
spring tides.
Aforementioned colleague has more experience in hydrology than I -
I'll check with him next week on sources of information.

--
David Shepherd
Wymondham,
Norfolk

"chris French" wrote in message
...
There is a good possibility that we may be moving from Leeds to the
Cambridge/Huntingdon area this year, depending on how SWMBO's new job
hunting goes.

World's oceans rising at , what is it? ("Thames Barrier rumoured not high
enough?")
A metre per century or something; although that may be accelerating due to
global warming?
Various glaciers from Greenland to Antarctica are receding and iced over
areas of various mountain ranges are becoming bare.
This had led to 'discoveries' of the "Ice man" (10,000 years?) in Europe, an
ancient mastodon in Russia and uncovered artefacts of native hunters from
8,000 years ago in northern Canada etc. Seems that we've melted back
somewhere between 5,000 and 10,000 years so far!
No matter! Your choice, whatever it is, should be good for say 50 years?
Personally I'd 'never' buy a house in an area subject to flooding.
Terry.
PS. Have an inflatable boat stored high up just in case and some means of
getting out through the roof.

Hi,

There is a good possibility that we may be moving from Leeds to the
Cambridge/Huntingdon area this year, depending on how SWMBO's new job
hunting goes.

The environment agency does have maps with flooding risks, but the
current ones take no account of flood defences etc., so of course the
fens are all coloured blue as a flood risk, not very helpful.

Actually, I think you will find that the fens are all coloured blue
because they really do have a =1% risk of flooding in any given year
(the EA's criteria). The big problem with the maps is that they don't
tell you how far above the 1% any given area is.

1% is an average of once per century, although I've heard somewhere
recently that we could start getting the once a century floods about
once every 20 years due to global warming, etc., etc.

I think the last time there was really serious widespread flooding with
multiple rivers bursting their banks in multiple places was 1947 - try
looking that up for an idea of what can happen. The floods in recent
years have generally been restricted to a few known trouble spots.

There are plenty of places between Cambridge and Huntingdon which don't
appear in blue on the EA's map, perhaps you should start looking there.
Alternatively, try asking again here once you have narrowed your area
down a bit more, "the fens" covers quite a big area..

Martin.

chris French wrote

We've been on the web of course having a look at potential houses, now
of course being where it is, quite a lot of those are on the Fens (We
are looking for a country property). On the face of it potentially, an
area prone to flooding, however, in the recent floods, it's somewhere
that I remember having a lot of problems, presumably, because of the
nature of the place, the drainage etc. systems are already in place to
deal with it -to an extent anyway.


so I've been trying to find some info on this, but haven't found much
really helpful.

The environment agency does have maps with flooding risks, but the
current ones take no account of flood defences etc., so of course the
fens are all coloured blue as a flood risk, not very helpful.

anyone have knowledge of this, or can point me to source of info?
--
Chris French, Leeds

Chris, try this website. It's a cut down version of the prog the professionals
use. You just type in your postcode and it tells you all the info you might
need. Could be a bit frightening though! Good luck.

http://www.homecheck.co.uk

Peter

"Peter Taylor" wrote in message
...
.....
Chris, try this website. It's a cut down version of the prog the
professionals
use. You just type in your postcode and it tells you all the info you
might
need. Could be a bit frightening though! Good luck.

http://www.homecheck.co.uk

It also seems to be a bit broad brush. I got the same flood warning level
for a property that I know has suffered floods, for one that used to have
floods until a new pumping station was built 20 years ago and for one that
has never flooded in recorded history.

Colin Bignell

"nightjar .uk.com" nightjar@insert_my_surname_here wrote in message
. ..

"Peter Taylor" wrote in message
...
....
Chris, try this website. It's a cut down version of the prog the
professionals
use. You just type in your postcode and it tells you all the info you
might
need. Could be a bit frightening though! Good luck.

http://www.homecheck.co.uk

It also seems to be a bit broad brush. I got the same flood warning level
for a property that I know has suffered floods, for one that used to have
floods until a new pumping station was built 20 years ago and for one that
has never flooded in recorded history.

Colin Bignell



Yeah, that's what I meant by frightening. I'm on the side of hill like a ski
jump and the soil is chalk which soaks up water, so we hardly ever see any
surface water, let alone flooding, but my friend's house 4 houses down the road
gets a "minor risk" level! Also I heard of a woman who was buying a house
locally and used this website to discover that the Radon level here is Medium
and that 1% -3% of homes in this area are above the Radon "Action Level".
That's quite low compared to some areas, but she got it in her head this place
is dangerous and chickened out. It would be interesting to hear what Radon
levels other people get.

Peter

In message , nightjar
writes

"chris French" wrote in message
...

There is a good possibility that we may be moving from Leeds to the
Cambridge/Huntingdon area this year, depending on how SWMBO's new job
hunting goes.

We've been on the web of course having a look at potential houses, now
of course being where it is, quite a lot of those are on the Fens (We
are looking for a country property). On the face of it potentially, an
area prone to flooding,

so I've been trying to find some info on this, but haven't found much
really helpful.

One of the insurance companies (I think Norwich Union) has done a much more
detailed anaylsis of flood risk. They hope to get an edge on the competition
by offereing lower premiums to houses where local conditions reduce the
risk. They may be able to help. Even just getting a quote from them might be
a good indication of the risk.

Certainly getting insurance quotes was going to be one of the things if
we get to that point.


However, if I had to live in the flat, uninteresting and wind-swept part of
the country, I would probably follow the example of one farmer and build a
large embankment around my house and garden.

I'm sure it could be a 'feature' :-)
--
Chris French, Leeds

In message , Anna Kettle
writes

And as a rule of thumb, the oldest houses will be built on the prime
spots so now is the time to buy an ancient hovel with lots of DIY
potential and there are lots of them out in the Fens

Buying a house that needs a lot of work this time round probably isn't
an realistic option at the moment.

We have a 3 year old, another sprog on the way in Nov. (a move would be
likely in early autumn), my wife would be doing a very busy job (her
first hospital Consultant post ), mega diy is something I want to avoid.
--
Chris French, Leeds

In message 0KfAc.61$b64.16@newsfe1-win, Ben Blaukopf
writes

"chris French" wrote in message
...
Ok, not DIY, but it's the sort of thing some people here will have
knowledge about. given the increasing in flooding we've seen

There is a good possibility that we may be moving from Leeds to the
Cambridge/Huntingdon area this year, depending on how SWMBO's new job
hunting goes.
anyone have knowledge of this, or can point me to source of info?

If you want to know about specific locations, you could do worse than ask
on cam.misc

Thanks I should have thought of that, I've subscribed now. :-)
--
Chris French, Leeds

In message , Dave S
writes
On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 23:29:29 +0100, chris French
wrote:


anyone have knowledge of this, or can point me to source of info?

Aforementioned colleague has more experience in hydrology than I -
I'll check with him next week on sources of information.


Thanks David.
--
Chris French, Leeds

In message , Martin Wiseman
writes
Hi,

There is a good possibility that we may be moving from Leeds to the
Cambridge/Huntingdon area this year, depending on how SWMBO's new job
hunting goes.

The environment agency does have maps with flooding risks, but the
current ones take no account of flood defences etc., so of course the
fens are all coloured blue as a flood risk, not very helpful.

Actually, I think you will find that the fens are all coloured blue
because they really do have a =1% risk of flooding in any given year
(the EA's criteria). The big problem with the maps is that they don't
tell you how far above the 1% any given area is.

OIndded, the info just isn't there yet it seems.

There are plenty of places between Cambridge and Huntingdon which don't
appear in blue on the EA's map, perhaps you should start looking there.

Oh sure, it's just that we've just been doing a bit of looking at what
sorts of places there are around out our price range and it happens that
we came up with a few places that all happened to be out in the Fens (as
well as some in other areas more 'inland'. I appreciate that there are
plenty of other areas, and that not all of the fenland is as prone to
flooding as some other parts, hence wanting to get an idea of what the
risk is.

--
Chris French, Leeds

In message , Peter Taylor
writes

"nightjar .uk.com" nightjar@insert_my_surname_here wrote in message
...

"Peter Taylor" wrote in message
...
....
Chris, try this website. It's a cut down version of the prog the
professionals
use. You just type in your postcode and it tells you all the info you
might
need. Could be a bit frightening though! Good luck.

http://www.homecheck.co.uk

It also seems to be a bit broad brush. I got the same flood warning level
for a property that I know has suffered floods, for one that used to have
floods until a new pumping station was built 20 years ago and for one that
has never flooded in recorded history.

Yeah, that's what I meant by frightening.

TBH, I didn't find it particularly useful - I can probably work out form
a map if a house is within 250 of a floodplain - which is what it seems
to tell you. Hmm, somewhere with the address of 'White Fen' is
surprisingly :-)

I've got a grip on what the current sort of risk is I guess - ISTM that
the Fens in general are probably less of a risk than say an old house
near a river, or a new house on a floodplain, where there just aren't
the defences. what I've really been pondering is what turn things might
take in the future.

Anyway thanks for the comments everyone, progress towards a job has
taken many twists and turns , so I'm just waiting to see how it all pans
out.

Also I heard of a woman who was buying a house
locally and used this website to discover that the Radon level here is Medium
and that 1% -3% of homes in this area are above the Radon "Action Level".
That's quite low compared to some areas,

Indeed, as in hardly any :-)

but she got it in her head this place
is dangerous and chickened out.

Well that was silly, she needs to learn to understand a simple statistic
:-)

It would be interesting to hear what Radon
levels other people get.

We are in a 1% of houses above action level area (not surprising given
we live in Leeds)
--
Chris French, Leeds

Buying a house that needs a lot of work this time round probably isn't
an realistic option at the moment.

We have a 3 year old, another sprog on the way in Nov. (a move would be
likely in early autumn), my wife would be doing a very busy job (her
first hospital Consultant post ), mega diy is something I want to avoid.

What a pity but yes you do seem to have plenty on your plate at the
moment

anyway it is much better to go to a place and live there and get to
know it before buying a hovel. I found a lovely hovel that way and so
did a Welsh friend of mine :-)

Anna






~~ Anna Kettle, Suffolk, England
|""""| ~ Plaster conservation and lime plaster repair
/ ^^ \ // Freehand modelling in lime: overmantels, pargeting etc
|____| www.kettlenet.co.uk 01359 230642

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 22:43:36 +0100, chris French
wrote:

In message , Dave S
writes
On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 23:29:29 +0100, chris French
wrote:


anyone have knowledge of this, or can point me to source of info?

Aforementioned colleague has more experience in hydrology than I -
I'll check with him next week on sources of information.


Well it seems the Norwich Union database is not quite as sophisticated
as it initially sounded. It seems they have a high resolution digital
elevation model, onto which they have mapped the position of
properties where flood claims have been made. The elevation of these
properties gives the elevation 'at risk of flooding' and by combining
the two they get the areas at risk of flooding. If your house is in
one of those areas they don't touch you and if not, they do.

So essentially it's a very broadbrush approach which is unlikely to
pick out the effects of topographic features or defences which would
protect individual properties. In principle, this would be possible if
combined with good hydrological data, but would be involved and
expensive to do for the whole country.

Local knowledge is probably your best bet - local newspapers can be a
good source of information on previous flooding. Local residents can
also be useful, be be aware that they are very prone to exageration!!

Although I lived near Ely for 6 months, I'm not particularly familiar
with the Fens. Since it is so low lying and largely artificially
drained, the potential for flooding has always been high. I suspect
that it is therefore better protected and the flood risk better
managed than in many other parts of the country.

Conversely, in many parts of the country, flood risk has been greatly
increased in recent years by changing land use (particularly
agricultural land), urbanisation, very poor river and catchment
management and to some extent by climate factors. Here, the flood risk
is very poorly managed and no-one seems to have a clue how to deal
with it, other than the pursuit of misguided hard engineering
approaches which have to a large extent caused the problem in the
first place.

Not that I'm bitter and twisted about having a proposal for research
funding to work in this area turned down, of course....!!!

cheers
David
--
David Shepherd
Wymondham,
Norfolk

On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 22:10:26 +0100, Martin Wiseman
wrote:

Hi,



Actually, I think you will find that the fens are all coloured blue
because they really do have a =1% risk of flooding in any given year
(the EA's criteria). The big problem with the maps is that they don't
tell you how far above the 1% any given area is.

1% is an average of once per century, although I've heard somewhere
recently that we could start getting the once a century floods about
once every 20 years due to global warming, etc., etc.

Such a flood has a *return period* of 100 years and is often known as
the *100 year flood*. The calculation of flood return periods is
flawed , to say the least, and I know from experience how poor they
can be.
Without going into the details (although I can of anyone /really/
wants to know), the main problems a
1. most rivers have maybe 20 or 30 years of flow data so making
calculations about flows which may never have occurred in the dataset
is dubious.
2. calculations are very sensitive to the length of data available
3. the calculation assumes that not only would climate not change
during the 100 years (if calculating the 100 year flood), but also
that climate did not change during the period of the dataset. Even
without *global warming* this is a false premise.
4. Any flow with a return period of more than about 1.5 years will be
out of bank in most UK rivers. Such flows are often estimated rather
than directly measured anyway.

I would be very wary of making decisions such as buying a house based
on calculations such as these.

David
--
David Shepherd
Wymondham,
Norfolk