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al
 
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Default Ummm ... just removed some wallpaper and ...

.... a bit of the wall wanted to come with it! Was using a steamer at the
time and the plaster behind the paper bubbled right out. Held it against
the wall until it cooled down and dried a bit. Now it's completely dry,
it's still in one piece, but cracked a bit and definitely not sound (it
pushes back a couple of mm).

What are my options now? Can you knock sections out and put a "chunk" of
plaster back in? Should I ignore it, fill the fine cracks with Pollyfilla
and paper over it? I'm not sure what's behind it - would it be the skimmed
plaster and plasterboard be behind or could it just be thin plasterboard?
It's a 1930's house if that's relevant.




a


  #2   Report Post  
al
 
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"al" wrote in message news:...

What are my options now? Can you knock sections out and put a "chunk" of
plaster back in? Should I ignore it, fill the fine cracks with Pollyfilla
and paper over it? I'm not sure what's behind it - would it be the
skimmed plaster and plasterboard be behind or could it just be thin
plasterboard? It's a 1930's house if that's relevant.


After reading a little further, I believe the second option I was referring
to is called dry lining. Would this have been done 70 years ago?



a


  #3   Report Post  
andrewpreece
 
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"al" wrote in message
.uk...
... a bit of the wall wanted to come with it! Was using a steamer at the
time and the plaster behind the paper bubbled right out. Held it against
the wall until it cooled down and dried a bit. Now it's completely dry,
it's still in one piece, but cracked a bit and definitely not sound (it
pushes back a couple of mm).

What are my options now? Can you knock sections out and put a "chunk" of
plaster back in? Should I ignore it, fill the fine cracks with Pollyfilla
and paper over it? I'm not sure what's behind it - would it be the

skimmed
plaster and plasterboard be behind or could it just be thin plasterboard?
It's a 1930's house if that's relevant.


Knock out the blown plaster ( carefully ) and go and buy some plaster, or
maybe
polyfilla will do if they say it's alright for the thickness involved, and
patch it. It's not
possible to 'feather' in plaster invisibly, so there'll be a slight line
where the new meets old,
but nothing that'll notice behind wall paper. Polyfilla is much better for
feathering in.

Patching a small area of plaster is not that difficult unless you're all
thumbs. As for
plasterboard in a 70 year old house, I'm not sure, but I'd lean towards
lathe and plaster
rather than plasterboard.


  #5   Report Post  
Rob Morley
 
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In article , "al"
says...
... a bit of the wall wanted to come with it! Was using a steamer at the
time and the plaster behind the paper bubbled right out. Held it against
the wall until it cooled down and dried a bit. Now it's completely dry,
it's still in one piece, but cracked a bit and definitely not sound (it
pushes back a couple of mm).

What are my options now? Can you knock sections out and put a "chunk" of
plaster back in? Should I ignore it, fill the fine cracks with Pollyfilla
and paper over it? I'm not sure what's behind it - would it be the skimmed
plaster and plasterboard be behind or could it just be thin plasterboard?
It's a 1930's house if that's relevant.


Unless the house has been modified in recent decades you won't have
plasterboard - it will be plaster on masonry or on wood lath. You
might find it's just the surface of the plaster that's loose. If so
you can just remove any loose bits and make good with filler or
finishing plaster. If the full thickness of plaster is coming away
from the wall you could remove the loose bits and fill the holes with
one-coat plaster, but you might find that once you've removed all the
loose bits there's not much left. Or you could patch the cracks with
filler*, cover it up and hope it stays there until the next time you
decide to decorate.


* Scrape the cracks out with a putty knife or similar so you can
actually get the filler in, rather than just smearing it over the
top.


  #6   Report Post  
basil
 
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Default

On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 23:46:24 GMT, "al"
wrote:

"al" wrote in message news:...

What are my options now? Can you knock sections out and put a "chunk" of
plaster back in? Should I ignore it, fill the fine cracks with Pollyfilla
and paper over it? I'm not sure what's behind it - would it be the
skimmed plaster and plasterboard be behind or could it just be thin
plasterboard? It's a 1930's house if that's relevant.


After reading a little further, I believe the second option I was referring
to is called dry lining. Would this have been done 70 years ago?



a

Do you think there is plasterboard behind because it all sounds
hollow? If so its because the plaster has detatched itself from the
bricks. Its probably bowed out in the middle and will eventulay all
fall off anyway. In your situation I replastered about 2/3 of the
house but I wasnt living there. You could maybe do the one room but
its going to be messy. If you do just patches I believe people inject
PVA glue into the gap behind to try to hold the old plaster in place.
If the gap is over 1/2 inch then that would be pointless I think.

BTW some 1930's houses did have plasterboard ceilings and stud
partitions but this is not related to your problem. Dry lining is a
modern thing not 1930's.

Basil
  #7   Report Post  
doozer
 
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We had exactly the same thing happen when we were stripping our walls.
We found that it was generally just the final skim layer that popped
off, the bulk plaster behind it was fairly sound.

In one room the bulk plaster was very dry and sandy so I stabilized it
with PVA before putting a skim of plaster over it.

If the bit that's fallen off is fairly small (few square feet) I suggest
you skim it and leave just a tiny bit extra plaster / filler where old
meets new and then gently sand that back. I have done this is a couple
of places and you can't see the join. If more has fallen off then either
practice plastering or get a plaster in. I have become quite good at
plastering now :-)

Before you steam the walls just go round the room and tap the walls with
your fingers. If anywhere sounds hollow you can be pretty certain that
it will fall off when you steam it as it has already partially come away
anyway. We found that just doing those bit by hand saved quite a bit of
re-plastering.

Graham

al wrote:
... a bit of the wall wanted to come with it! Was using a steamer at the
time and the plaster behind the paper bubbled right out. Held it against
the wall until it cooled down and dried a bit. Now it's completely dry,
it's still in one piece, but cracked a bit and definitely not sound (it
pushes back a couple of mm).

What are my options now? Can you knock sections out and put a "chunk" of
plaster back in? Should I ignore it, fill the fine cracks with Pollyfilla
and paper over it? I'm not sure what's behind it - would it be the skimmed
plaster and plasterboard be behind or could it just be thin plasterboard?
It's a 1930's house if that's relevant.




a


  #8   Report Post  
al
 
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"doozer" wrote in message
news:g8ednTjp1M-
If the bit that's fallen off is fairly small (few square feet) I suggest
you skim it and leave just a tiny bit extra plaster / filler where old
meets new and then gently sand that back. I have done this is a couple of
places and you can't see the join. If more has fallen off then either
practice plastering or get a plaster in. I have become quite good at
plastering now :-)

It's about a 10cm circular area, so not too big. Should I just try gently
knocking it out with a chisel then and using Pollyfilla to build up the
missing plaster? It seems like a thin layer from the flexibility of it - I
would guess about 5mm or so thick. Sounds like this would be the final skim
layer from your and others descriptions.

Before you steam the walls just go round the room and tap the walls with
your fingers. If anywhere sounds hollow you can be pretty certain that it
will fall off when you steam it as it has already partially come away
anyway. We found that just doing those bit by hand saved quite a bit of
re-plastering.


There's a few places like that all right ... looks like I'll have fun!




a


  #9   Report Post  
doozer
 
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al wrote:
"doozer" wrote in message
news:g8ednTjp1M-

If the bit that's fallen off is fairly small (few square feet) I suggest
you skim it and leave just a tiny bit extra plaster / filler where old
meets new and then gently sand that back. I have done this is a couple of
places and you can't see the join. If more has fallen off then either
practice plastering or get a plaster in. I have become quite good at
plastering now :-)


It's about a 10cm circular area, so not too big. Should I just try gently
knocking it out with a chisel then and using Pollyfilla to build up the
missing plaster? It seems like a thin layer from the flexibility of it - I
would guess about 5mm or so thick. Sounds like this would be the final skim
layer from your and others descriptions.


I found that if the bubble looked like it was about 10cm when I had
taken off all the loose plaster the hole had normally grown to about
30cm (in one case it was much bigger than that though). Even so that's
still pretty easy to fill yourself with a little patience.

You shouldn't need a chisel as it will come away easily and in the
interests of doing as little unnecessary work as possible you don't want
to damage the underlying plaster as that is probably good enough to work
with. I used a old wall paper stripper - dig the edge into the bubble
and gently lift away then scrape off the rest of the loose skim like you
a lifting wall paper. Be careful you don't get carried away and scrape
the whole wall off! The material should come away really easily and is
probably currently being held together by a layer of paint at a guess.
If the base plaster is very sandy and dry you might want to paint it
with PVA first.

The final skim thickness will vary from place to place around the house.
Some places it will be as little as 1mm others around 5 or 6mm. I found
the thicker bits easier to fix. Just mix up some nice smooth filler and
slap it in the hole. Smooth it with a filling knife (or float if the
hole is big enough to warrant it) leaving just a little extra at the edges.

Leave it to dry thoroughly and then sand the edges (120 grit should do
it) smooth with the original wall, if you need to sand the middle bulk
section do that as well. Run the palm of your hand over the filled
section to check for bumps and steps between old and new. You shouldn't
be able to feel a ridge. If you do feel a ridge try and guess whether
your new filler is to high (in which case sand a little more) or to low
(in which case fill a little more and repeat sanding). You can get a
finish that is easily good enough to paint.

Graham



Before you steam the walls just go round the room and tap the walls with
your fingers. If anywhere sounds hollow you can be pretty certain that it
will fall off when you steam it as it has already partially come away
anyway. We found that just doing those bit by hand saved quite a bit of
re-plastering.



There's a few places like that all right ... looks like I'll have fun!




a


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al
 
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"doozer" wrote in message
The final skim thickness will vary from place to place around the house.
Some places it will be as little as 1mm others around 5 or 6mm. I found
the thicker bits easier to fix. Just mix up some nice smooth filler and
slap it in the hole. Smooth it with a filling knife (or float if the hole
is big enough to warrant it) leaving just a little extra at the edges.


The filler to use - anything in particular? I have a fresh tub of standard
indoor Pollyfilla which is light and creamy. Should I try and fill the
entire depth at once or build it up?





a




  #11   Report Post  
John Stumbles
 
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al wrote:
"doozer" wrote in message

The final skim thickness will vary from place to place around the house.
Some places it will be as little as 1mm others around 5 or 6mm. I found
the thicker bits easier to fix. Just mix up some nice smooth filler and
slap it in the hole. Smooth it with a filling knife (or float if the hole
is big enough to warrant it) leaving just a little extra at the edges.



The filler to use - anything in particular? I have a fresh tub of standard
indoor Pollyfilla which is light and creamy. Should I try and fill the
entire depth at once or build it up?


If you've got more than a couple of millimetres thickness to fill I'd
use one-coat plaster. I use the stuff in white plastic sacks with red
logo & printing on it, from B&Q (and maybe other places - it's not an
own-brand but I can't remember the brand name). That goes on up to 50mm
thick (they say) and doesn't sag the way polyfilla does. There are
own-brands in the sheds which may be alright - I haven't tried.

Actually I don't use polyfilla for thin bits either - I tend to use
Tetrion or even cove advesive (shed own-brand is quite cheap) which I'm
sure is the same as cellulose filler but vastly cheaper. There's also a
white cellulose filler in paper sacks, about 10 for 10Kg, which is very
good for fine filling. You'll find it (and one-coat) by the bags of
plaster etc in the trade section of big B&Qs.

Before filling I'd prime the area thoroughly with PVA, diluted enough to
soak into the plaster rather than dragging loose stuff off into a sticky
mass/mess. If you've had to dilute the PVA much to wet the wall you can
give it another dose of less-dilute stuff (DIY law#94: you can never
have too much PVA :-). You can apply filler before the PVA has dried or
afterwards, doesn't seem to matter either way (though I daresay some
smartypants materials scientist will be along to correct me on that ;-)
  #12   Report Post  
doozer
 
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John Stumbles wrote:
al wrote:

"doozer" wrote in message

The final skim thickness will vary from place to place around the
house. Some places it will be as little as 1mm others around 5 or
6mm. I found the thicker bits easier to fix. Just mix up some nice
smooth filler and slap it in the hole. Smooth it with a filling knife
(or float if the hole is big enough to warrant it) leaving just a
little extra at the edges.



The filler to use - anything in particular? I have a fresh tub of
standard indoor Pollyfilla which is light and creamy. Should I try
and fill the entire depth at once or build it up?



If you've got more than a couple of millimetres thickness to fill I'd
use one-coat plaster. I use the stuff in white plastic sacks with red
logo & printing on it, from B&Q (and maybe other places - it's not an
own-brand but I can't remember the brand name). That goes on up to 50mm
thick (they say) and doesn't sag the way polyfilla does. There are
own-brands in the sheds which may be alright - I haven't tried.

Actually I don't use polyfilla for thin bits either - I tend to use
Tetrion or even cove advesive (shed own-brand is quite cheap) which I'm
sure is the same as cellulose filler but vastly cheaper. There's also a
white cellulose filler in paper sacks, about 10 for 10Kg, which is very
good for fine filling. You'll find it (and one-coat) by the bags of
plaster etc in the trade section of big B&Qs.

Before filling I'd prime the area thoroughly with PVA, diluted enough to
soak into the plaster rather than dragging loose stuff off into a sticky
mass/mess. If you've had to dilute the PVA much to wet the wall you can
give it another dose of less-dilute stuff (DIY law#94: you can never
have too much PVA :-). You can apply filler before the PVA has dried or
afterwards, doesn't seem to matter either way (though I daresay some
smartypants materials scientist will be along to correct me on that ;-)



I agree. I thought from what you described originally you only lost the
surface skim. If you have to fill deeper than a few mills one coat
filler is the ticket (it's much cheaper than polyfilla). If it is just
the skim then polyfilla will work. I tend to use B&Q own brand filler as
it's cheaper and does the same job (got the bargain of the century on
it, 30p per 1.5kg bag because of a stock take).
  #13   Report Post  
al
 
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"John Stumbles" wrote in message
...
If you've got more than a couple of millimetres thickness to fill I'd use
one-coat plaster. I use the stuff in white plastic sacks with red logo &
printing on it, from B&Q (and maybe other places - it's not an own-brand
but I can't remember the brand name). That goes on up to 50mm thick (they
say) and doesn't sag the way polyfilla does. There are own-brands in the
sheds which may be alright - I haven't tried.


I've pried away some of the shot plaster and it's about 3-4mm thick, so not
nearly as bad as I thought. Haven't got any PVA ... will see how much of
the wall I destroy by the time all of the paper is down first - don't know
if it comes in small amounts.

Managed to steam burn my wrist so far, which is a great help!! Lessons to
be learned about being careless with paper steamers!




a


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John Stumbles
 
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al wrote:
"John Stumbles" wrote in message
...

If you've got more than a couple of millimetres thickness to fill I'd use
one-coat plaster. I use the stuff in white plastic sacks with red logo &
printing on it, from B&Q (and maybe other places - it's not an own-brand
but I can't remember the brand name). That goes on up to 50mm thick (they
say) and doesn't sag the way polyfilla does. There are own-brands in the
sheds which may be alright - I haven't tried.



I've pried away some of the shot plaster and it's about 3-4mm thick, so not
nearly as bad as I thought. Haven't got any PVA


Haven't got any PVA?

HAVEN'T GOT ANY PVA?!!!

And you have the temerity to show yourself on a DIY forum?!!!


;-)
  #15   Report Post  
Sue
 
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In message , John Stumbles
writes
al wrote:
"John Stumbles" wrote in message
...

If you've got more than a couple of millimetres thickness to fill I'd
use one-coat plaster. I use the stuff in white plastic sacks with red
logo & printing on it, from B&Q (and maybe other places - it's not an
own-brand but I can't remember the brand name). That goes on up to
50mm thick (they say) and doesn't sag the way polyfilla does. There
are own-brands in the sheds which may be alright - I haven't tried.

I've pried away some of the shot plaster and it's about 3-4mm
thick, so not nearly as bad as I thought. Haven't got any PVA


Haven't got any PVA?

HAVEN'T GOT ANY PVA?!!!

And you have the temerity to show yourself on a DIY forum?!!!


Sorry, neither have I - what do I need that for?

Is it any good for a loose mortice joint in a sofa?

--
Sue ];(


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al
 
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"John Stumbles" wrote in message
...
Haven't got any PVA?

HAVEN'T GOT ANY PVA?!!!

And you have the temerity to show yourself on a DIY forum?!!!


Ummm .. no ... and .. ummm ... yes! ;p





a


  #17   Report Post  
al
 
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"John Stumbles" wrote in message
...
Haven't got any PVA?


Speaking of PVA ... I'm looking to paint my garage walls & floor soon.
Would a standard PVA solution do me in this circumstance as a primer to
floor/wall paint also? Floor is porous concrete and walls are mostly (very)
porous brick and one pebbledash.




a


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doozer
 
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al wrote:
"John Stumbles" wrote in message
...

Haven't got any PVA?



Speaking of PVA ... I'm looking to paint my garage walls & floor soon.
Would a standard PVA solution do me in this circumstance as a primer to
floor/wall paint also? Floor is porous concrete and walls are mostly (very)
porous brick and one pebbledash.


I painted our garage floor last year, it too was porous concrete, I just
used floor paint straight on to the floor and it worked fine (cheapest
bit of DIY I've ever done - the previous owners left the paint behind).
Don't forget to stir the tin before starting though (I did and had to
redo a good portion) being oil based it had separated but it didn't look
like it had from the top.

Graham.

PS. Has anyone else had PVA go mouldy? I found half a tub that I had
forgotten about, when I opened it up it had a sort of mould growing on
top of it. I would never have thought that something could live off PVA.
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