The previous owner of my flat blocked up the origianl kitchen door that
gave entrance to the kitchen from the hall and made entry from another
room [a room that I will use as a bedroom]. My plan is to block up the
new doorway and open up the original door once more. I have presented
plans to Building Control at my local council. They seem to be ok with
the door being replaced but the problem, and I did not see this coming,
is with the layout I propose for the refit of the kitchen. The kitchen
is tiny, about 5 ft by 7 ft, and Building Control say I should have
unobstructed access to the window for cleaning. This scuppers things as
I can't have my sink or any base unit in front of the window. None of
the kitchen planners I've had plans from pointed this out and the vast
majority of kitchens I've been in do have units/sinks in front of the
window. Suggestions as to how to proceed most welcome.

"neil leslie" wrote in message
...
The previous owner of my flat blocked up the origianl kitchen door that
gave entrance to the kitchen from the hall and made entry from another
room [a room that I will use as a bedroom]. My plan is to block up the
new doorway and open up the original door once more. I have presented
plans to Building Control at my local council. They seem to be ok with
the door being replaced but the problem, and I did not see this coming,
is with the layout I propose for the refit of the kitchen. The kitchen
is tiny, about 5 ft by 7 ft, and Building Control say I should have
unobstructed access to the window for cleaning.

This is balls. If this was so, few new houses would have kitchens.

This scuppers things as
I can't have my sink or any base unit in front of the window. None of
the kitchen planners I've had plans from pointed this out and the vast
majority of kitchens I've been in do have units/sinks in front of the
window. Suggestions as to how to proceed most welcome.

Why did you go to building control? Block up a door which already has a
lintel and opening up an old door which I assume already has a lintel is not
structural and a minor affair. I am surprised they were interested. In new
houses it is near impossible to clean kitchen windows unless you are 7 foot
tall and can lean over the units and reach the top of the window. A small
foot ladder gives access to the window for just about everyone.

I can't have my sink or any base unit in front of the window.

That is the most ridiculous thing I've heard in a long time. Have you ever
seen a kitchen with space in front of the window? The sink is almost
invariably chosen to sit in front of it.

Christian.

IMM wrote:

"neil leslie" wrote in message
...

The previous owner of my flat blocked up the origianl kitchen door that
gave entrance to the kitchen from the hall and made entry from another
room [a room that I will use as a bedroom]. My plan is to block up the
new doorway and open up the original door once more. I have presented
plans to Building Control at my local council. They seem to be ok with
the door being replaced but the problem, and I did not see this coming,
is with the layout I propose for the refit of the kitchen. The kitchen
is tiny, about 5 ft by 7 ft, and Building Control say I should have
unobstructed access to the window for cleaning.


This is balls. If this was so, few new houses would have kitchens.


This scuppers things as
I can't have my sink or any base unit in front of the window. None of
the kitchen planners I've had plans from pointed this out and the vast
majority of kitchens I've been in do have units/sinks in front of the
window. Suggestions as to how to proceed most welcome.


Why did you go to building control? Block up a door which already has a
lintel and opening up an old door which I assume already has a lintel is not
structural and a minor affair. I am surprised they were interested. In new
houses it is near impossible to clean kitchen windows unless you are 7 foot
tall and can lean over the units and reach the top of the window. A small
foot ladder gives access to the window for just about everyone.



I contacted Building Control to see if I needed their consent as I was
concernred about selling the flat in years to come if I made any
alterations without permission.

That is the most ridiculous thing I've heard in a long time. Have you ever
seen a kitchen with space in front of the window? The sink is almost
invariably chosen to sit in front of it.

Having looked at Building Regulations Approved Document Part N3, you need to
ensure that the window controls are no higher than 1.7m from the floor if
you have kitchen units of standard height and depth in front of it.
Alternatively, you can install a remote operating system.

Part N4 indicates issues for cleaning the outside of the windows. Is this
the issue? If so, how high up is your flat? Does the window rotate round for
cleaning? Is there somewhere hard to place a ladder?

Christian.

I have the original sash window in the kitchen so the bottom half opens
for cleaning and the top half slides down for cleaning but does not
rotate inwards. The window has handles that are less than 1.7m from the
floor but the top half has a latch that is above 1.7m

The flat is on the second floor. There is space to place a ladder, just.

In my initial telephone calls with Building Control they said that given
the age of the property [about 1890] my watch words were to be 'don't
make it any worse than it already is' but I guess this is open to
interpretation.




Christian McArdle wrote:

That is the most ridiculous thing I've heard in a long time. Have you ever
seen a kitchen with space in front of the window? The sink is almost
invariably chosen to sit in front of it.


Having looked at Building Regulations Approved Document Part N3, you need to
ensure that the window controls are no higher than 1.7m from the floor if
you have kitchen units of standard height and depth in front of it.
Alternatively, you can install a remote operating system.

Part N4 indicates issues for cleaning the outside of the windows. Is this
the issue? If so, how high up is your flat? Does the window rotate round for
cleaning? Is there somewhere hard to place a ladder?

Christian.

I have the original sash window in the kitchen so the bottom half opens
for cleaning and the top half slides down for cleaning but does not
rotate inwards.

Technically to comply with modern standards, you'll need to replace the
latch with something less than 1.7m high or have some remote method of
opening (i.e. Mighton powersash). However, whether or not you need to comply
with modern standards is another issue. Fixing it to comply is serious
overkill.

In any case, just submit the building application to move the doors. You can
fit the kitchen after the door work has been signed off.

Christian.

"neil leslie" wrote in message
...
The previous owner of my flat blocked up the origianl kitchen door that
gave entrance to the kitchen from the hall and made entry from another
room [a room that I will use as a bedroom]. My plan is to block up the
new doorway and open up the original door once more. I have presented
plans to Building Control at my local council. They seem to be ok with
the door being replaced but the problem, and I did not see this coming,
is with the layout I propose for the refit of the kitchen. The kitchen
is tiny, about 5 ft by 7 ft, and Building Control say I should have
unobstructed access to the window for cleaning. This scuppers things as
I can't have my sink or any base unit in front of the window. None of
the kitchen planners I've had plans from pointed this out and the vast
majority of kitchens I've been in do have units/sinks in front of the
window. Suggestions as to how to proceed most welcome.


The requirement to be able to clean the window only means that you can't put
anything in front of it that will block its movement or be restrictive to
physical access. It doesn't mean you can't put anything in front of the window
that will mean you have to hop on top of it and swing the window in to clean the
outside.

As long as you can physically reach both the outside and inside of the window so
you can clean it, and without putting yourself or others in danger while doing
so, then you can proceed with your plans to fit your new kitchen units and sink.


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"neil leslie" wrote in message
...


IMM wrote:

"neil leslie" wrote in message
...

The previous owner of my flat blocked up the origianl kitchen door that
gave entrance to the kitchen from the hall and made entry from another
room [a room that I will use as a bedroom]. My plan is to block up the
new doorway and open up the original door once more. I have presented
plans to Building Control at my local council. They seem to be ok with
the door being replaced but the problem, and I did not see this coming,
is with the layout I propose for the refit of the kitchen. The kitchen
is tiny, about 5 ft by 7 ft, and Building Control say I should have
unobstructed access to the window for cleaning.


This is balls. If this was so, few new houses would have kitchens.

This scuppers things as
I can't have my sink or any base unit in front of the window. None of
the kitchen planners I've had plans from pointed this out and the vast
majority of kitchens I've been in do have units/sinks in front of the
window. Suggestions as to how to proceed most welcome.

Why did you go to building control? Block up a door which already has a
lintel and opening up an old door which I assume already has a lintel is
not
structural and a minor affair. I am surprised they were interested. In
new
houses it is near impossible to clean kitchen windows unless you are 7
foot
tall and can lean over the units and reach the top of the window. A
small
foot ladder gives access to the window for just about everyone.


I contacted Building Control to see if I needed their consent as I was
concernred about selling the flat in years to come if I made any
alterations without permission.

Alterations? You are putting it back to the way it was. You are unaltering
the place.

neil leslie wrote

Building Control say I should have
unobstructed access to the window for cleaning.

Building Control are wrong - if you have any problems with them ask them to
quote which Regulation they are applying. The Regulations are as follows:

Safe access for cleaning is covered by Regulation N4. The Regulation clearly
states it does NOT apply to dwellings.

Safe access for opening/closing is covered by Regulation N3. With a kitchen
unit or other obstruction not more than 900mm high below the window, the window
operating handle must be no higher than 1.7m above floor level. It can be 1.9m
if there is no obstruction.

HTH
Peter

IMM wrote

I contacted Building Control to see if I needed their consent as I was
concernred about selling the flat in years to come if I made any
alterations without permission.

Alterations? You are putting it back to the way it was. You are unaltering
the place.

Ignore this Neil. You did the right thing.

Peter

"Peter Taylor" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote

I contacted Building Control to see if I needed their consent as I was
concernred about selling the flat in years to come if I made any
alterations without permission.

Alterations? You are putting it back to the way it was. You are
unaltering
the place.

Ignore this Neil. You did the right thing.

What? filling in few couses of bricks and taking away a few courses. the
same bricks can transferred from hole to hole. No load bearing whatsoever.
Should he contact them to put up a shelf too?

"neil leslie" wrote in message
...
The previous owner of my flat blocked up the origianl kitchen door that
gave entrance to the kitchen from the hall and made entry from another
room [a room that I will use as a bedroom]. My plan is to block up the
new doorway and open up the original door once more. I have presented
plans to Building Control at my local council. They seem to be ok with
the door being replaced but the problem, and I did not see this coming,
is with the layout I propose for the refit of the kitchen. The kitchen
is tiny, about 5 ft by 7 ft, and Building Control say I should have
unobstructed access to the window for cleaning. This scuppers things as
I can't have my sink or any base unit in front of the window. None of
the kitchen planners I've had plans from pointed this out and the vast
majority of kitchens I've been in do have units/sinks in front of the
window. Suggestions as to how to proceed most welcome.


Ye gods, this is just plain crazyness!

As others have said, if your window handle is 1.7m then you could split the
door moving and kitchen refit into two distinct and separate projects. AFAIK
a kitchen refit doesn't require building regs!

If BC won't accept that, or it is impractical to move the door without
knobbling your present kitchen, then you could always fit a sacraficial
cheap-as-chips kitchen that does not impede the window - site the sink just
to the left or right if possible. You ought to be able to pick up some
dreadful affair for a couple of hundred quid.

Then, after the work is signed off you can decide that you hate the new
kitchen and refit with the one you originally wanted... May be a worthwhile
extra cost to get exactly what you wanted, and you have the BC signoff for
the alteration work.


--
Richard Sampson

email me at
richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk

"RichardS" noaccess@invalid wrote in message
. ..

"neil leslie" wrote in message
...
The previous owner of my flat blocked up the origianl kitchen door t
snipped

Ye gods, this is just plain crazyness!

As others have said, if your window handle is 1.7m then you could split the
door moving and kitchen refit into two distinct and separate projects. AFAIK
a kitchen refit doesn't require building regs!

If BC won't accept that, or it is impractical to move the door without
knobbling your present kitchen, then you could always fit a sacraficial
cheap-as-chips kitchen that does not impede the window - site the sink just
to the left or right if possible. You ought to be able to pick up some
dreadful affair for a couple of hundred quid.

Then, after the work is signed off you can decide that you hate the new
kitchen and refit with the one you originally wanted... May be a worthwhile
extra cost to get exactly what you wanted, and you have the BC signoff for
the alteration work.

Richard Sampson


You need your wrist smacked for suggesting something like that, when it's a lot
easier to ignore the stupid BC guy that even suggested the requirement in the
first place. As long as you can reach the window and be able to open it fully
for cleaning, and not put yourself or others in danger while doing so, then
there is nothing to stop you putting anything in front of the window that is
easily removed to allow you in to clean it.

You can even place a huge cupboard in front of the window if you wanted, and
thing only thing you'd have to prove is that it is easily removed from that
position and allows you in to the window so you can open it up and clean the
outside.

If you fixed units below the height of the inner sill, then you have to prove
that the fixed units will bear the weight of someone climbing onto and sitting
down on them for purposes of cleaning the window. Which, if installed
correctly, most kitchen units and worktops will do without any problems.

You may have to check which taps you buy for the kitchen sink, and where the
taps are positioned in relation the fully opening part of the window though.
Some mixer taps with single spouts may encroach into the window opening area and
prevent fully opening it, but this is easily remedied by making the window
itself rise higher so it clears the top of the taps.


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BigWallop wrote

As long as you can reach the window and be able to open it fully
for cleaning, and not put yourself or others in danger while doing so, then
there is nothing to stop you putting anything in front of the window that is
easily removed to allow you in to clean it.

snip remainder

Forget this. As I said before, the Building Regulations contain NO requirements
for access for cleaning windows in dwellings.

"Peter Taylor" wrote in message
...
BigWallop wrote

As long as you can reach the window and be able to open it fully
for cleaning, and not put yourself or others in danger while doing so, then
there is nothing to stop you putting anything in front of the window that is
easily removed to allow you in to clean it.

snip remainder

Forget this. As I said before, the Building Regulations contain NO
requirements
for access for cleaning windows in dwellings.


They do under Scottish Requirements. To have dirty windows is against the
health and hygiene laws.


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"Peter Taylor" wrote in message
...
BigWallop wrote

As long as you can reach the window and be able to open it fully
for cleaning, and not put yourself or others in danger while doing so,
then
there is nothing to stop you putting anything in front of the window
that is
easily removed to allow you in to clean it.

snip remainder

Forget this. As I said before, the Building Regulations contain NO
requirements
for access for cleaning windows in dwellings.


sorry, I think I misread your post when suggesting that!

--
Richard Sampson

email me at
richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk

Thanks for all the feedback so far. I'm now at a point where I have to
resubmit my plans taking into account what Building Control have said.
Given the size of my kitchen I can't comply with their wishes for the
window, how do you think I should proceed? I'm in Scotland so what
BigWallop said about dirty windows would apply to me.

RichardS wrote:

"Peter Taylor" wrote in message
...

BigWallop wrote


As long as you can reach the window and be able to open it fully
for cleaning, and not put yourself or others in danger while doing so,

then

there is nothing to stop you putting anything in front of the window

that is

easily removed to allow you in to clean it.

snip remainder

Forget this. As I said before, the Building Regulations contain NO

requirements

for access for cleaning windows in dwellings.



sorry, I think I misread your post when suggesting that!

--
Richard Sampson

email me at
richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk

On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 15:44:10 +0100, a particular chimpanzee named neil
leslie randomly hit the keyboard and produced:

Thanks for all the feedback so far. I'm now at a point where I have to
resubmit my plans taking into account what Building Control have said.
Given the size of my kitchen I can't comply with their wishes for the
window, how do you think I should proceed? I'm in Scotland so what
BigWallop said about dirty windows would apply to me.

AINAnExpertInTheScottishRegs, but I've just looked 'em up, and the bit
about safe cleaning [1] says "in a building of purpose group 1 [2],
any window or part of a window more than 4 m above the adjacent ground
must be constructed [3] so that its external and internal glazed
surfaces can be safely cleaned from -
a. inside the building; or
b. from a loadbearing surface; or
c. a window access system mounted on the building".

[1] Part P2.3
[2] Dwellings, including flats (Part A, Schedule 3)
[3] "CONSTRUCT includes alter, erect, extend and fit" (Part A)
--
Hugo Nebula
"The fact that no-one on the internet wants a piece of this
shows you just how far you've strayed from the pack".

"Hugo Nebula" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 15:44:10 +0100, a particular chimpanzee named neil
leslie randomly hit the keyboard and produced:

Thanks for all the feedback so far. I'm now at a point where I have to
resubmit my plans taking into account what Building Control have said.
Given the size of my kitchen I can't comply with their wishes for the
window, how do you think I should proceed? I'm in Scotland so what
BigWallop said about dirty windows would apply to me.

AINAnExpertInTheScottishRegs, but I've just looked 'em up, and the bit
about safe cleaning [1] says "in a building of purpose group 1 [2],
any window or part of a window more than 4 m above the adjacent ground
must be constructed [3] so that its external and internal glazed
surfaces can be safely cleaned from -
a. inside the building; or
b. from a loadbearing surface; or
c. a window access system mounted on the building".

[1] Part P2.3
[2] Dwellings, including flats (Part A, Schedule 3)
[3] "CONSTRUCT includes alter, erect, extend and fit" (Part A)

So, arguably, a properly operational sash window should satisfy requirement
a).


--
Richard Sampson

email me at
richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk

On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 10:14:30 +0100, neil leslie
wrote:

The previous owner of my flat blocked up the origianl kitchen door that
gave entrance to the kitchen from the hall and made entry from another
room [a room that I will use as a bedroom]. My plan is to block up the
new doorway and open up the original door once more. I have presented
plans to Building Control at my local council. They seem to be ok with
the door being replaced but the problem, and I did not see this coming,
is with the layout I propose for the refit of the kitchen. The kitchen
is tiny, about 5 ft by 7 ft, and Building Control say I should have
unobstructed access to the window for cleaning. This scuppers things as
I can't have my sink or any base unit in front of the window. None of
the kitchen planners I've had plans from pointed this out and the vast
majority of kitchens I've been in do have units/sinks in front of the
window. Suggestions as to how to proceed most welcome.
Hi,

Did they specifically say you can't have units in front if the window?
I would have thought a sink/drainer in front of the window still
allowed access for cleaning.

cheers,
Pete.

"neil leslie" wrote in message
...
Thanks for all the feedback so far. I'm now at a point where I have to
resubmit my plans taking into account what Building Control have said.
Given the size of my kitchen I can't comply with their wishes for the
window, how do you think I should proceed? I'm in Scotland so what
BigWallop said about dirty windows would apply to me.



First of all Neil, what I said before is correct in respect of the Building
Regulations for England & Wales. I wasn't aware you were north of the border.

I've had a look at the Scottish Building Standards and as far as I can see,
Regulation P2.3 requires a building in your purpose group (1A) to be constructed
with safe access for cleaning windows that are 4m and more above ground level,
which I assume applies to you. The "deemed to satisfy provisions" covering this
regulation say...

"The requirements of P2.3 will be met where external and internal glazed
surfaces can be cleaned safely from

a inside the building in accordance with the requirements of Clauses 10.2,
10.3 and 10.4 of BS 8213: Part 1: 1991;"

Unfortunately I don't have easy access to the British Standards at present and I
can't look up these requirements, but I imagine this will be what the Building
Control Officer is looking at. Someone else might be able to help here.

As in England, the Building Standards are not retrospective - they cannot
require you to upgrade an existing non-complying building in order to comply,
unless you are doing some work which *makes the situation worse than it was
previously*. So, if there were previously kitchen units under the window, you
are not making the situation any worse if you simply replace them. That would
be my argument.

Whatever IMM says, you DID do the right thing by asking the council whether
permission is necessary. Whether you got the right answer or not is debatable.
It seems extremely unfair to prevent you from replacing the kitchen as it was,
as the structural work in no way affects the window. I think you should still
ask the BCO to quote the regulation he is applying and ask for an explanation.
(It forces him to think carefully about his reply). If that doesn't help, maybe
you should write to the Chief Building Control Officer explaining the situation,
making sure you state clearly that the kitchen has always had a unit under the
window, and ask him for a written ruling. If that backs up the BCO then your
only option is to appeal, but that's a very costly and drawn-out process for
your situation.

That would be the officially correct way of dealing with this. Alternatively, I
agree with Richard's suggestion that you sort out the kitchen units after the
structural work has been signed off.

Hope this has been helpful.
Good luck!
Peter

"Pete C" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 10:14:30 +0100, neil leslie
wrote:

The previous owner of my flat blocked up the origianl kitchen door that
gave entrance to the kitchen from the hall and made entry from another
room [a room that I will use as a bedroom]. My plan is to block up the
new doorway and open up the original door once more. I have presented
plans to Building Control at my local council. They seem to be ok with
the door being replaced but the problem, and I did not see this coming,
is with the layout I propose for the refit of the kitchen. The kitchen
is tiny, about 5 ft by 7 ft, and Building Control say I should have
unobstructed access to the window for cleaning. This scuppers things as
I can't have my sink or any base unit in front of the window. None of
the kitchen planners I've had plans from pointed this out and the vast
majority of kitchens I've been in do have units/sinks in front of the
window. Suggestions as to how to proceed most welcome.
Hi,

Did they specifically say you can't have units in front if the window?
I would have thought a sink/drainer in front of the window still
allowed access for cleaning.

I would think it the ideal place. I just splash water with a J cloth from
the tap onto the window and then sort of mop it back into the sink.

"G&M" wrote in message
...

"Pete C" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 10:14:30 +0100, neil leslie
wrote:

The previous owner of my flat blocked up the origianl kitchen door that
gave entrance to the kitchen from the hall and made entry from another
room [a room that I will use as a bedroom]. My plan is to block up the
new doorway and open up the original door once more. I have presented
plans to Building Control at my local council. They seem to be ok with
the door being replaced but the problem, and I did not see this coming,
is with the layout I propose for the refit of the kitchen. The kitchen
is tiny, about 5 ft by 7 ft, and Building Control say I should have
unobstructed access to the window for cleaning. This scuppers things as
I can't have my sink or any base unit in front of the window. None of
the kitchen planners I've had plans from pointed this out and the vast
majority of kitchens I've been in do have units/sinks in front of the
window. Suggestions as to how to proceed most welcome.
Hi,

Did they specifically say you can't have units in front if the window?
I would have thought a sink/drainer in front of the window still
allowed access for cleaning.

I would think it the ideal place. I just splash water with a J cloth from
the tap onto the window and then sort of mop it back into the sink.

That's right, but the regulations seem to be trying to prevent people having to
climb on the sink to clean the window and then being in danger of falling out
when the window is opened to clean the outside. (Remember the regs only apply
where the window is 4 metres or more above ground level). I would think
standing on a solid sink base would be much safer than on a wobbly chair, but
there you go!

Peter

"Peter Taylor" wrote in message
...

"G&M" wrote in message
...

"Pete C" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 10:14:30 +0100, neil leslie
wrote:

The previous owner of my flat blocked up the origianl kitchen door
that
gave entrance to the kitchen from the hall and made entry from
another
room [a room that I will use as a bedroom]. My plan is to block up
the
new doorway and open up the original door once more. I have presented
plans to Building Control at my local council. They seem to be ok
with
the door being replaced but the problem, and I did not see this
coming,
is with the layout I propose for the refit of the kitchen. The
kitchen
is tiny, about 5 ft by 7 ft, and Building Control say I should have
unobstructed access to the window for cleaning. This scuppers things
as
I can't have my sink or any base unit in front of the window. None of
the kitchen planners I've had plans from pointed this out and the
vast
majority of kitchens I've been in do have units/sinks in front of the
window. Suggestions as to how to proceed most welcome.
Hi,

Did they specifically say you can't have units in front if the window?
I would have thought a sink/drainer in front of the window still
allowed access for cleaning.

I would think it the ideal place. I just splash water with a J cloth
from
the tap onto the window and then sort of mop it back into the sink.

That's right, but the regulations seem to be trying to prevent people
having to
climb on the sink to clean the window and then being in danger of falling
out
when the window is opened to clean the outside. (Remember the regs only
apply
where the window is 4 metres or more above ground level).

This 4 metres. Is it toi the sill, teh catch, the top of the window?

I would think standing on a solid sink base
would be much safer than on a wobbly chair, but
there you go!

IMM wrote


This 4 metres. Is it toi the sill, teh catch, the top of the window?

From the Regs:

CLEANING OF WINDOWS AND ROOFLIGHTS
P2.3* In a building of purpose group 1, any window or part of a window more than
4 m above the adjacent ground must be constructed so that its external and
internal glazed surfaces can be safely cleaned from
a. inside the building; or

b. from a loadbearing surface; or

c. a window access system mounted on the building,

except -a window in any part of a building in common occupation which
complies with the standard in P2.4b.

On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 10:29:35 +0100, "Peter Taylor"
wrote:

IMM wrote


This 4 metres. Is it toi the sill, teh catch, the top of the window?

From the Regs:

CLEANING OF WINDOWS AND ROOFLIGHTS
P2.3* In a building of purpose group 1, any window or part of a window more than
4 m above the adjacent ground must be constructed so that its external and
internal glazed surfaces can be safely cleaned from
a. inside the building; or

b. from a loadbearing surface; or

c. a window access system mounted on the building,

except -a window in any part of a building in common occupation which
complies with the standard in P2.4b.
Hi,

I wonder if a sink drainer can be classed as a loadbearing surface.
There must be flats with the kitchen sink in front of the window.

cheers,
Pete.

"Peter Taylor" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote


This 4 metres. Is it toi the sill, teh catch, the top of the window?

From the Regs:

CLEANING OF WINDOWS AND ROOFLIGHTS
P2.3* In a building of purpose group 1, any window or part of a window
more than
4 m above the adjacent ground must be constructed so that its external and
internal glazed surfaces can be safely cleaned from
a. inside the building; or

b. from a loadbearing surface; or

c. a window access system mounted on the building,

except -a window in any part of a building in common occupation
which
complies with the standard in P2.4b.

Can you see England from this window (with telescopr perhaps ?). If so
claim the English building regs apply :-)