Digging a trench Vs boring a tunnel
 

Hi all

I'd like to replace the water main to the house. The water company have
asked for a trench 750mm deep lined with pea-gravel or similar do be dug
from teh house to the road.

The biggest problem is that the trench will have to go through/under the
garden wall which is a 120 year old dry stone construction which may
well not cope well.

However , when a gas supply was installed, Transo used some sort of
tunneling device to connect two small holes. I wasn't at home at the
time so didn't see the operation, but a now wondering if a similar
machine could be used to bore a tunnel for the water pipe.

Can these machines be hired or does one have to get a specialist in?

Nick Brooks

Digging a trench Vs boring a tunnel
 

"Nick Brooks" wrote in message
...
Hi all

I'd like to replace the water main to the house. The water company have
asked for a trench 750mm deep lined with pea-gravel or similar do be dug
from teh house to the road.

The biggest problem is that the trench will have to go through/under the
garden wall which is a 120 year old dry stone construction which may
well not cope well.

However , when a gas supply was installed, Transo used some sort of
tunneling device to connect two small holes. I wasn't at home at the
time so didn't see the operation, but a now wondering if a similar
machine could be used to bore a tunnel for the water pipe.

Can these machines be hired or does one have to get a specialist in?


Well I do know that the contracting firm "Murphy" can do this sort of thing,
as they are currently laying a massive gas main quite close to where I live,
using tunnelling machines. I'm not sure you would want to go to the
extremes of this, but it should be possible I would have thought. Guess
someone else might have knowledge of this.
--
Big Al

Digging a trench Vs boring a tunnel
 

Nick Brooks wrote:
Hi all

I'd like to replace the water main to the house. The water company have
asked for a trench 750mm deep lined with pea-gravel or similar do be dug
from teh house to the road.

The biggest problem is that the trench will have to go through/under the
garden wall which is a 120 year old dry stone construction which may
well not cope well.

Dig a trench up to the wall, a bit bigger hole next to the wall, that
you can get in, and then use a pickaxe, or trowel to cut a hole for
the pipe.
Vacuum cleaner may be hany on sandy soils.

Digging a trench Vs boring a tunnel
 

Ian Stirling wrote:

Nick Brooks wrote:

Hi all

I'd like to replace the water main to the house. The water company have
asked for a trench 750mm deep lined with pea-gravel or similar do be dug
from teh house to the road.

The biggest problem is that the trench will have to go through/under the
garden wall which is a 120 year old dry stone construction which may
well not cope well.

I have just had this done. I was going to dig the trench myself, but my
wife said it was too much work for an old man!! Cheek, but she must be
obeyed. so I got a firm of plumbers, they dug a hole near my wall,
which abuts the pavement, on my side. Another hole was dug abutting the
house wall.

They then "moled" under the wall to the water boards stop cock, and
again from the wall to house hole. Took them about 5 hours all told,
cost me £450, that included coming back, connecting the new pipe house
end after water board did their bit and reinstating the lawn and garden.

Not only did it save me a lot of work but also did not mess the garden.
Well worth it I thought. the mole is driven by an air compressor, and
the operation to get it to go the right way looked quite skilled.
--
Please only reply to Newsgroup as emails
to this address are deleted on arrival.

Digging a trench Vs boring a tunnel
 

Nick Brooks wrote:
Hi all

I'd like to replace the water main to the house. The water company
have asked for a trench 750mm deep lined with pea-gravel or similar
do be dug from teh house to the road.

The biggest problem is that the trench will have to go through/under
the garden wall which is a 120 year old dry stone construction which
may well not cope well.

However , when a gas supply was installed, Transo used some sort of
tunneling device to connect two small holes. I wasn't at home at the
time so didn't see the operation, but a now wondering if a similar
machine could be used to bore a tunnel for the water pipe.

Can these machines be hired or does one have to get a specialist in?

Nick Brooks

Hi. I had Severn-Trent install my new water pipe and the used a mole under a
concrete drive with holes every 30 feet.
Rgds
Alec





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Digging a trench Vs boring a tunnel
 

You need to slip Paddy "Murphy" a £50 note and he will tunnel it for you
after hours ;-)


"big al - Peoples Pal" wrote in message
. ..

"Nick Brooks" wrote in message
...
Hi all

I'd like to replace the water main to the house. The water company have
asked for a trench 750mm deep lined with pea-gravel or similar do be dug
from teh house to the road.

The biggest problem is that the trench will have to go through/under the
garden wall which is a 120 year old dry stone construction which may
well not cope well.

However , when a gas supply was installed, Transo used some sort of
tunneling device to connect two small holes. I wasn't at home at the
time so didn't see the operation, but a now wondering if a similar
machine could be used to bore a tunnel for the water pipe.

Can these machines be hired or does one have to get a specialist in?


Well I do know that the contracting firm "Murphy" can do this sort of
thing,
as they are currently laying a massive gas main quite close to where I
live,
using tunnelling machines. I'm not sure you would want to go to the
extremes of this, but it should be possible I would have thought. Guess
someone else might have knowledge of this.
--
Big Al

Digging a trench Vs boring a tunnel
 

Nick Brooks wrote:
Hi all

I'd like to replace the water main to the house.

[snip]

Okay so I'm finally going to ask, at the risk of looking stupid.

Why would you want to have this done? I've seen a lot of people on this
group mention it over the years.....

Whats wrong with the main you've got?

Digging a trench Vs boring a tunnel
 

hudsterou wrote:
Nick Brooks wrote:

Hi all

I'd like to replace the water main to the house.


[snip]

Okay so I'm finally going to ask, at the risk of looking stupid.

Why would you want to have this done? I've seen a lot of people on this
group mention it over the years.....

Whats wrong with the main you've got?



We're in a terrace of eight with a shared main. When a few houses are
using water simultaneously the pressure/flow rate drops considerably

Nick Brooks

Digging a trench Vs boring a tunnel
 

Nick Brooks wrote in message ...

I'd like to replace the water main to the house. The water company have
asked for a trench 750mm deep lined with pea-gravel or similar do be dug
from teh house to the road.

The biggest problem is that the trench will have to go through/under the
garden wall which is a 120 year old dry stone construction which may
well not cope well.

However , when a gas supply was installed, Transo used some sort of
tunneling device to connect two small holes. I wasn't at home at the
time so didn't see the operation, but a now wondering if a similar
machine could be used to bore a tunnel for the water pipe.

Can these machines be hired or does one have to get a specialist in?

To the first question, yes definitely; and to the second, yes IMHO!

See http://tinyurl.com/23se9 or
http://www.hss.com/Fae.asp?sysPage=w...sysLanguag e=[BASE]&resetToGroup=YES

I recently watched with fascination as United Utilities used one of
these to install a water pipe under the pavement near me. They had
this mole, a metal cylinder about 3" by 2', connected to a compressor
via a hose; shoved it down a hole and let it rip. Off it went down
the road, beneath the pavement, until it emerged in another pit about
10' away. Having done it's job, the bloke yanked it back by the hose
and tossed it on the pavement, where it sat thrashing about like a
demented eel till the air ran out.

God knows how they control its direction and gradient; and presumably
they'd already checked for any stray service pipes in harm's way. I
certainly wouldn't fancy trying to use it in anger myself.

During the same job (above) I had to get a water pipe from the inside
of my property to the outside, 750mm below the surface, which is
pretty much what you're doing... is your wall at the boundary, or will
you be able to dig down at both sides of the wall and meet in the
middle underneath? If so, that shouldn't be much bother. If you're
at the boundary, the water co will insist you break right through the
foundations of the wall from your side only (you're absolutely not
allowed to dig up the pavement yourself!), then will probably send a
jobsworth inspector round to ensure you've done precisely that before
they will dig up the pavement themselves (although the job would be
infinitely easier working from both sides). I expect this is where
you're coming from, right?!!

I'm guessing the drystone wall won't have foundations as deep as
750mm; and if it does, it will only be rubble-type stuff (my 100-year
old house wall was, anyway!). I got through eventually using a
combination of a lump hammer, builder's chisel, pointing trowel(!) and
a length of 1.25" plastic waste pipe, used as a coring tool. Sod of a
job - good luck!

David

Digging a trench Vs boring a tunnel
 

I'd like to replace the water main to the house. The water company
have
asked for a trench 750mm deep lined with pea-gravel or similar do be
dug
from teh house to the road.

The biggest problem is that the trench will have to go through/under
the
garden wall which is a 120 year old dry stone construction which may
well not cope well.

However , when a gas supply was installed, Transo used some sort of
tunneling device to connect two small holes. I wasn't at home at the
time so didn't see the operation, but a now wondering if a similar
machine could be used to bore a tunnel for the water pipe.

Can these machines be hired or does one have to get a specialist in?

One can hire them with an operator but they ain't cheap. For a 40 metre
long bore including access works I was quoted £25k.

Digging a trench Vs boring a tunnel
 

On Tue, 08 Jun 2004 18:40:18 +0100, Nige wrote:

In uk.d-i-y, Nick Brooks wrote:

We're in a terrace of eight with a shared main. When a few houses are
using water simultaneously the pressure/flow rate drops considerably

Aren't the water company responsible for maintaining reasonable
pressure?

Actually only a minimum flow rate, of IIRC 9 litres per minute at the
kitchen cold tap.

They are well sandbagged.....



..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Digging a trench Vs boring a tunnel
 

In uk.d-i-y, Nick Brooks wrote:

We're in a terrace of eight with a shared main. When a few houses are
using water simultaneously the pressure/flow rate drops considerably


Might not some form of water storage tank, say 50 or 100 gallons, with a
pump to give a good pressure prove cheaper, assuming you have somewhere to
put it.

I use the excellent DabJet 82M with a 600 gallon tank for this purpose,
though for us this size is essential as our inlet is a very low pressure and
variable supply spring.

Digging a trench Vs boring a tunnel
 

"hudsterou" wrote in message ...
Nick Brooks wrote:
Hi all

I'd like to replace the water main to the house.

[snip]

Okay so I'm finally going to ask, at the risk of looking stupid.

Why would you want to have this done? I've seen a lot of people on this
group mention it over the years.....

Whats wrong with the main you've got?

Many are still lead.

Digging a trench Vs boring a tunnel
 

Lobster wrote:
Nick Brooks wrote in message ...


I'd like to replace the water main to the house. The water company have
asked for a trench 750mm deep lined with pea-gravel or similar do be dug
from teh house to the road.

The biggest problem is that the trench will have to go through/under the
garden wall which is a 120 year old dry stone construction which may
well not cope well.

However , when a gas supply was installed, Transo used some sort of
tunneling device to connect two small holes. I wasn't at home at the
time so didn't see the operation, but a now wondering if a similar
machine could be used to bore a tunnel for the water pipe.

Can these machines be hired or does one have to get a specialist in?


To the first question, yes definitely; and to the second, yes IMHO!

See http://tinyurl.com/23se9 or
http://www.hss.com/Fae.asp?sysPage=w...sysLanguag e=[BASE]&resetToGroup=YES

I recently watched with fascination as United Utilities used one of
these to install a water pipe under the pavement near me. They had
this mole, a metal cylinder about 3" by 2', connected to a compressor
via a hose; shoved it down a hole and let it rip. Off it went down
the road, beneath the pavement, until it emerged in another pit about
10' away. Having done it's job, the bloke yanked it back by the hose
and tossed it on the pavement, where it sat thrashing about like a
demented eel till the air ran out.

God knows how they control its direction and gradient; and presumably
they'd already checked for any stray service pipes in harm's way. I
certainly wouldn't fancy trying to use it in anger myself.

During the same job (above) I had to get a water pipe from the inside
of my property to the outside, 750mm below the surface, which is
pretty much what you're doing... is your wall at the boundary, or will
you be able to dig down at both sides of the wall and meet in the
middle underneath? If so, that shouldn't be much bother. If you're
at the boundary, the water co will insist you break right through the
foundations of the wall from your side only (you're absolutely not
allowed to dig up the pavement yourself!), then will probably send a
jobsworth inspector round to ensure you've done precisely that before
they will dig up the pavement themselves (although the job would be
infinitely easier working from both sides). I expect this is where
you're coming from, right?!!

I'm guessing the drystone wall won't have foundations as deep as
750mm; and if it does, it will only be rubble-type stuff (my 100-year
old house wall was, anyway!). I got through eventually using a
combination of a lump hammer, builder's chisel, pointing trowel(!) and
a length of 1.25" plastic waste pipe, used as a coring tool. Sod of a
job - good luck!

David

You've described my situation exactly. The man from the water cpmpany is
coming today. I'll let you know what happens

NB

Digging a trench Vs boring a tunnel
 

Update

Well the water company man came round and said that they wouldn't bore a
tunnel for me at all, I'd have to dig a trench and he wants to inspect
it before they connect it up.

Also he want to inspect the pipework internally as it passes under a
wooden floor. Am I right in thinking that it is only their
responsibility up to a stopcock so if I fit one in the porch, then what
happens after that is none of his business?

In my situation where the water company stopcock is in the road and the
supply then passes under all the gardens in the terrace to individual
internal stopcocks, is it true that what happens after the stopcock in
the road is also not their concern?

Nick Brooks

Digging a trench Vs boring a tunnel
 

"Nick Brooks" wrote in message
...
Update

Well the water company man came round and said that they wouldn't bore a
tunnel for me at all, I'd have to dig a trench and he wants to inspect
it before they connect it up.

Also he want to inspect the pipework internally as it passes under a
wooden floor. Am I right in thinking that it is only their
responsibility up to a stopcock so if I fit one in the porch, then what
happens after that is none of his business?

In my situation where the water company stopcock is in the road and the
supply then passes under all the gardens in the terrace to individual
internal stopcocks, is it true that what happens after the stopcock in
the road is also not their concern?

The mains water is their concern. All of it. That is why they inspect
before connecting and backfilling.

Digging a trench Vs boring a tunnel
 

IMM wrote:
"Nick Brooks" wrote in message
...

Update

Well the water company man came round and said that they wouldn't bore a
tunnel for me at all, I'd have to dig a trench and he wants to inspect
it before they connect it up.

Also he want to inspect the pipework internally as it passes under a
wooden floor. Am I right in thinking that it is only their
responsibility up to a stopcock so if I fit one in the porch, then what
happens after that is none of his business?

In my situation where the water company stopcock is in the road and the
supply then passes under all the gardens in the terrace to individual
internal stopcocks, is it true that what happens after the stopcock in
the road is also not their concern?


The mains water is their concern. All of it. That is why they inspect
before connecting and backfilling.



I'd be grateful if others could reply as the above is of no value whatsoever

Digging a trench Vs boring a tunnel
 

"Nick Brooks" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:
"Nick Brooks" wrote in message
...

Update

Well the water company man came round and said that they wouldn't bore a
tunnel for me at all, I'd have to dig a trench and he wants to inspect
it before they connect it up.

Also he want to inspect the pipework internally as it passes under a
wooden floor. Am I right in thinking that it is only their
responsibility up to a stopcock so if I fit one in the porch, then what
happens after that is none of his business?

In my situation where the water company stopcock is in the road and the
supply then passes under all the gardens in the terrace to individual
internal stopcocks, is it true that what happens after the stopcock in
the road is also not their concern?

The mains water is their concern. All of it. That is why they inspect
before connecting and backfilling.

I'd be grateful if others could reply as the above is of no value
whatsoever

What a pillock! The OP asked:
"is it true that what happens after the stopcock in the road is also not
their concern?"

The reply was:
"The mains water is their concern. All of it. That is why they inspect
before connecting and backfilling".

Question fully answered.

Digging a trench Vs boring a tunnel
 

IMM wrote:
snip

The reply was:
"The mains water is their concern. All of it. That is why they inspect
before connecting and backfilling".

Question fully answered.



Question not fully answered. "All of it" doesn't say at what point the
water company responsibility ends

Nick Brooks

Digging a trench Vs boring a tunnel
 

"Nick Brooks" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:
snip

The reply was:
"The mains water is their concern. All of it. That is why they inspect
before connecting and backfilling".

Question fully answered.



Question not fully answered. "All of it" doesn't say at what point the
water company responsibility ends

Re-read. Note words "concern" and "responsibility".

Digging a trench Vs boring a tunnel
 

"Nick Brooks" wrote in message
...
In my situation where the water company stopcock is in the road and the
supply then passes under all the gardens in the terrace to individual
internal stopcocks, is it true that what happens after the stopcock in
the road is also not their concern?


The mains water is their concern. All of it. That is why they inspect
before connecting and backfilling.

I'd be grateful if others could reply as the above is of no value
whatsoever

Making the changes you are requesting counts as a new install and thus they
do have the right to fully inspect the water by-laws are obeyed throughout
the house. It really depends on your water company. Are you in Scotland ?
I've heard stories about them being especially pernickity.

Digging a trench Vs boring a tunnel
 

"Nick Brooks" wrote in message
...

Well the water company man came round and said that they wouldn't bore a
tunnel for me at all, I'd have to dig a trench and he wants to inspect
it before they connect it up.

Well, no surprises there then! :-)

Also he want to inspect the pipework internally as it passes under a
wooden floor. Am I right in thinking that it is only their
responsibility up to a stopcock so if I fit one in the porch, then what
happens after that is none of his business?

In terms of replacing or installing an incoming water main, all they will
inspect is as far as the internal stopcock (which needs to either have an
integral drain cock, or one fitted immediately above the stop cock - he'll
want to see that). In my case, there was no internal plumbing on the
property at the time; the inspector approved my installation and then the
digging team came round later with their hydraulic mole to connect it to the
water supply. There are no more inspections; so presumably they just trust
the internal plumbing to be done correctly?

PS don't forget to leave your stopcock in the 'off' position, as the diggers
don't need access to inside the property and could come and connect it up
when nobody's in, and flood the place (no it didn't happen to me!!)

In my situation where the water company stopcock is in the road and the
supply then passes under all the gardens in the terrace to individual
internal stopcocks, is it true that what happens after the stopcock in
the road is also not their concern?

Not sure. I mean, obviously there are rules and bylaws about what you can
and can't do with your internal plumbing, and you have to adhere to them;
but I've never heard of anyone getting a visit from their water supplier to
be checked out.

By the way have you got full details of the water co requirements; mine was
incredibly fussy, specifying depth, ducting, special insulation for the blue
PTFE pipe etc; all of which had to be complied with to the letter. When the
inspector looked at my installation (2nd visit), he said 'Hey wow, looks
like I can pass one!' which implied it was a fairly rare event in his life.
Love 'em.

David