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Anna Kettle
 
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Default Heating system - how much space needed?

I'm about to install a loft ladder so I can get into my attic easily
and it would be just great if I can fit both the loft ladder and
(eventually) the new heating/water system without having to move any
of my old heating/water system for the time being

I've not yet done any planning of the the new heating/water system
beyond thinking that it will be a mains pressure system suitable for a
three bedroom two bathroom house

The space I'd like it to go into is a triangular gable end which when
floored will be 2300mm wide, 1150mm high in the centre and 1100mm deep

Can anyone tell me if this is likely to be a big enough space for my
new system?

I hope so, cos otherwise I will have to find somewhere else for the
loft ladder thougb I suppose that is better than fitting it and then
deciding later that it will have to be moved

Anna

~~ Anna Kettle, Suffolk, England
|""""| ~ Lime plaster repairs
/ ^^ \ // Freehand modelling in lime: overmantels, pargeting etc
|____| www.kettlenet.co.uk 01359 230642
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Andy Hall
 
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Default

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 09:10:40 GMT, (Anna Kettle)
wrote:

I'm about to install a loft ladder so I can get into my attic easily
and it would be just great if I can fit both the loft ladder and
(eventually) the new heating/water system without having to move any
of my old heating/water system for the time being

I've not yet done any planning of the the new heating/water system
beyond thinking that it will be a mains pressure system suitable for a
three bedroom two bathroom house

The space I'd like it to go into is a triangular gable end which when
floored will be 2300mm wide, 1150mm high in the centre and 1100mm deep

Can anyone tell me if this is likely to be a big enough space for my
new system?

I hope so, cos otherwise I will have to find somewhere else for the
loft ladder thougb I suppose that is better than fitting it and then
deciding later that it will have to be moved


I think that the height could be a problem, Anna.

If you want the boiler to go up there, then you will need to check
height carefully, including flue.

If you are going to go for a combi boiler and have it suitable for 2
bathrooms, it's a push anyway, but larger capacity ones tend to be
quite big.

An alternative could be a heatbank, but including a built in header
tank, is going to be higher if of reasonable capacity.

It may be doable, but your choices may become quite restricted.

The other thing to watch for is whether there is enough height above
the loft ladder to lift and move things in.

If you are going to plan it this way, I think some careful research is
needed now. Is there another place with greater height where at
least a cylinder could go?



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl
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Anna Kettle
 
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On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 10:28:13 +0000, Andy Hall
wrote:

I think that the height could be a problem, Anna.


Thanks Andy

If you are going to plan it this way, I think some careful research is
needed now. Is there another place with greater height where at
least a cylinder could go?


Thanks for your comments Andy. Not the answer I wanted, but I must
have had suspicions or I wouldn't have posted here. There are several
other places I could put a cylinder. Does it need to be close to the
boiler? The trouble with all the other places I have thought of so far
is that they all have their own defects

Ah well, I'll put the loft ladder on the back boiler (so to speak)
while I get up to speed on heating systems. Time to inspect the FAQ I
think

Anna

~~ Anna Kettle, Suffolk, England
|""""| ~ Lime plaster repairs
/ ^^ \ // Freehand modelling in lime: overmantels, pargeting etc
|____| www.kettlenet.co.uk 01359 230642
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Aidan
 
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Default

If you could get an unvented system that's short enough, you might put
two in parallel. You'd still have to have two lots of safety devices
(pressure relief, T&P relief valves, discharge pipes, etc., etc..) and
they should/must be serviced annually, so this could have high
maintenance costs. Probably a last resort solution.

I've seen unvented systems installed in an enclosure constructed at top
floor level, in the space over the stairwell. You have to have 6.5ft
ish headroom over the stairs at the lower levels, but the space in the
stairwell at top floor level is usually wasted. Probably impractical
for listed building dwellers.

You also need to minimize the distance for the discharge pipe from the
2 relief valves' ; it needs to be fairly direct. The pipe size
increases with it's length and the number of elbows. You can wind up
with a 54mm copper pipe on the outside of the building or it could be
impractical.

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Andy Hall
 
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On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 19:03:36 GMT, (Anna Kettle)
wrote:

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 10:28:13 +0000, Andy Hall
wrote:

I think that the height could be a problem, Anna.


Thanks Andy

If you are going to plan it this way, I think some careful research is
needed now. Is there another place with greater height where at
least a cylinder could go?


Thanks for your comments Andy. Not the answer I wanted, but I must
have had suspicions or I wouldn't have posted here. There are several
other places I could put a cylinder. Does it need to be close to the
boiler? The trouble with all the other places I have thought of so far
is that they all have their own defects

Ah well, I'll put the loft ladder on the back boiler (so to speak)
while I get up to speed on heating systems. Time to inspect the FAQ I
think

Anna



I think that you could probably squeeze a system boiler like a Keston
Celsius in there without too much problem if that helps with locating
things. You do have to have boarded area and handrails if the boiler
goes in the loft, because a fitter working on it is doing so at a
workplace and health and safety rules apply.
One thing with this type of boiler, and there are others with similar
arrangements, is that the flue is or can be organised with twin 50mm
plastic high temperature waste pipe and run over 20m or more. This
may offer you more fitting options.


You don't have to position cylinders close to the boiler at all and
unlike the old days when gravity type cylinders which relied on the
cylinder having some height above the boiler, you can even locate it
below the boiler location and some way away if it helps.





--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl


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The Natural Philosopher
 
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Default

Aidan wrote:

If you could get an unvented system that's short enough, you might put
two in parallel. You'd still have to have two lots of safety devices
(pressure relief, T&P relief valves, discharge pipes, etc., etc..) and
they should/must be serviced annually, so this could have high
maintenance costs. Probably a last resort solution.

I've seen unvented systems installed in an enclosure constructed at top
floor level, in the space over the stairwell. You have to have 6.5ft
ish headroom over the stairs at the lower levels, but the space in the
stairwell at top floor level is usually wasted. Probably impractical
for listed building dwellers.

You also need to minimize the distance for the discharge pipe from the
2 relief valves' ; it needs to be fairly direct. The pipe size
increases with it's length and the number of elbows. You can wind up
with a 54mm copper pipe on the outside of the building or it could be
impractical.

Ive got my unvented tank in the roof, bang next to a chimney under the
ridge, where there is height.

Boiler is at ground level due to it being oil, and needing some
semblance of gravity feed...

all works fine, except dowsntairs hot water has a long way to go, and
takes time to come through.
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Owain
 
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Default

"Anna Kettle" wrote
| There are several other places I could put a cylinder. Does it need
| to be close to the boiler?

Provided you have big-enough and well-insulated-enough pipes you can have
the boiler in a separate building. You want the cylinder(s) close to the
point of use of hot water.

Owain


  #8   Report Post  
Anna Kettle
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Thanks everyone for your comments. What with them and the FAQ and
heatwen.com I have just had a fun evening reading up on heating
systems. The outcome is that no way will I fit a suitably sized
standard thermal store in the allocated space. There is a 'lying on
its side' version available at a price, but before resorting to that I
will cudgel my brains to think up another place with more headroom to
put the thermal store. I suspect my system might end up looking
remarkably like NP's

On the bright side, having removed half the heating system there is
now plenty of room for the loft ladder

Anna
~~ Anna Kettle, Suffolk, England
|""""| ~ Lime plaster repairs
/ ^^ \ // Freehand modelling in lime: overmantels, pargeting etc
|____| www.kettlenet.co.uk 01359 230642
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