Just bought a new (well 2nd hand!) house originally built on the 30s and
extended in the 80s and then again in the late 90s. We don't have an
outside TV aerial and I'm thinking of getting one installed. That has set
me thinking about how to then distribute the signal though the house. It
used to be easy, bring the wire into the house, split the cable and away you
go (bear in mind it's over 20 years since I last did this). Now, it might
be nice to make it possible to view the output from a video machine situated
with one TV on a different TV. With the emergence of PCs with TV (and huge
discs to allow video recording etc) the possibility of networking such a PC
with other PCs and also allowing another TV to view video from the PC hard
disc is another thing I'd like to allow for even if I don't have the kit
right now. And then, of course, there's the issue of controlling lights,
heating etc.

I probably need to do some background reading first if only to rein in some
of my wilder thinking. I see there's a "Dummies" book on the subject; any
good? Any other books? Any web sites I should peruse? A different
Usenet group?

The house is on the South Somerset/Mendip council border. Anyone happen to
know an installer in the area?

Thank you for any pointers.

"Graham Harrison" wrote in message
...
Just bought a new (well 2nd hand!) house originally built on the 30s and
extended in the 80s and then again in the late 90s. We don't have an
outside TV aerial and I'm thinking of getting one installed. That has
set
me thinking about how to then distribute the signal though the house. It
used to be easy, bring the wire into the house, split the cable and away
you
go (bear in mind it's over 20 years since I last did this). Now, it
might
be nice to make it possible to view the output from a video machine
situated
with one TV on a different TV. With the emergence of PCs with TV (and
huge
discs to allow video recording etc) the possibility of networking such a
PC
with other PCs and also allowing another TV to view video from the PC hard
disc is another thing I'd like to allow for even if I don't have the kit
right now. And then, of course, there's the issue of controlling lights,
heating etc.

I probably need to do some background reading first if only to rein in
some
of my wilder thinking. I see there's a "Dummies" book on the subject;
any
good? Any other books? Any web sites I should peruse? A different
Usenet group?

The house is on the South Somerset/Mendip council border. Anyone happen
to
know an installer in the area?

Thank you for any pointers.



Cat 5/6 wiring should be all that's necessary going forwards (or perhaps no
wiring at all). Take a look at

http://tinyurl.com/6ujxq

...and read the datasheet.

David

"Vortex" wrote in message
...

"Graham Harrison" wrote in message
...
Just bought a new (well 2nd hand!) house originally built on the 30s and
extended in the 80s and then again in the late 90s. We don't have an
outside TV aerial and I'm thinking of getting one installed. That has
set
me thinking about how to then distribute the signal though the house. It
used to be easy, bring the wire into the house, split the cable and away
you
go (bear in mind it's over 20 years since I last did this). Now, it
might
be nice to make it possible to view the output from a video machine
situated
with one TV on a different TV. With the emergence of PCs with TV (and
huge
discs to allow video recording etc) the possibility of networking such a
PC
with other PCs and also allowing another TV to view video from the PC hard
disc is another thing I'd like to allow for even if I don't have the kit
right now. And then, of course, there's the issue of controlling lights,
heating etc.

I probably need to do some background reading first if only to rein in
some
of my wilder thinking. I see there's a "Dummies" book on the subject;
any
good? Any other books? Any web sites I should peruse? A different
Usenet group?

The house is on the South Somerset/Mendip council border. Anyone happen
to
know an installer in the area?

Thank you for any pointers.



Cat 5/6 wiring should be all that's necessary going forwards (or perhaps no
wiring at all). Take a look at

http://tinyurl.com/6ujxq

..and read the datasheet.

David


The home automation websites are a good place to start. It has lots of ideas
and tricks to follow in making things work magically.

http://www.smarthome.com/

http://www.homeauto.com/

http://www.hometoys.com/

http://www.home-automation.org/

And for a few discussions on this type of subject, there's he

http://www.homeautomationforum.com/

Graham Harrison used his keyboard to write :
That has set
me thinking about how to then distribute the signal though the house. It
used to be easy, bring the wire into the house, split the cable and away you
go (bear in mind it's over 20 years since I last did this). Now, it might
be nice to make it possible to view the output from a video machine situated
with one TV on a different TV.

Add a TV distribution amplifier after the video, then a coax from the
outputs to each point a TV might be needed.

For the PC's a router is the way to go...
Probably a combined broadband modem/router with a wireless access
point. A network card in each PC, either for wired or wireless (WiFi).
If the unit is mounted in a suitable location, you might find WiFi will
provide adequate coverage, otherwise a CAT5 cable from router to each
PC.

--


--

Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.org

On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 17:18:20 +0000 (UTC), "Graham Harrison"
wrote:

Just bought a new (well 2nd hand!) house originally built on the 30s and
extended in the 80s and then again in the late 90s. We don't have an
outside TV aerial and I'm thinking of getting one installed. That has set
me thinking about how to then distribute the signal though the house. It
used to be easy, bring the wire into the house, split the cable and away you
go (bear in mind it's over 20 years since I last did this). Now, it might
be nice to make it possible to view the output from a video machine situated
with one TV on a different TV.

We had a lot of difficulty getting all of Tyne Tees and all of Yorkshire
plus a vcr and satellite reciever without patterning (the cheap
modulators in sat recievers and videos are double sideband and spread
over 2 channels). That was before C5 not to mention digital.

With the emergence of PCs with TV (and huge discs to allow video recording etc)

PC with TV card equated to low resolution and frame rate when I tried
it. Only really good enough for watching in a small window whilst
working at the PC.

PC with USB frame grabber is still only vcr resolution, but with no tape
noise (better), but with compression artifacts (worse). TV was recorded
as raw data IIRC 1 hour = 37 gigabytes! Compressing it to Mpeg takes
several hours, busies up the PC like nobody's business and the final
Mpeg file is about 1,100 Mb/hour.

the possibility of networking such a PC
with other PCs and also allowing another TV to view video from the PC hard
disc is another thing I'd like to allow for even if I don't have the kit
right now.

There's no real reason not to use wireless networking

And then, of course, there's the issue of controlling lights,
heating etc.

I probably need to do some background reading first if only to rein in some
of my wilder thinking. I see there's a "Dummies" book on the subject; any
good? Any other books? Any web sites I should peruse? A different
Usenet group?


uk.tech.broadcast

Don't let what I said about PCs and video put you off if you want to
take it up as a hobby. It's nothing if not absorbing (of time and
money), but dedicated recordable dvd machines are now approaching the
100 quid mark and have a high useability factor for SWMBO. More/less
every PC comes with a DVD burner nowadays so a good way to go is to
capture off air onto a re-recordable DVD on a dedicated DVD recorder,
then burn it onto a cheap bulk DVD if you want to keep it. Even on long
play quality is quite acceptable. That's 6 hours on a DVD.

The house is on the South Somerset/Mendip council border. Anyone happen to
know an installer in the area?

Well my son just bought a house in Bristol and was offered all this sort
of thing as an optional extra, so somebody must be doing it in the south
west www.dwh.co.uk send them an email or phone their Bristol office and
ask them.


Thank you for any pointers.


DG

"Graham Harrison" wrote
| Now, it might be nice to make it possible to view the output from a
| video machine situated with one TV on a different TV. With the
| emergence of PCs with TV (and huge discs to allow video recording
| etc) the possibility of networking such a PC with other PCs and also
| allowing another TV to view video from the PC hard disc is another
| thing I'd like to allow for even if I don't have the kit right now.

Gigabit Ethernet is just coming along; in 5 years time it and a hard-disk
home media server in the loft will be commonplace, streaming audio and video
down to chipped Xboxes in every room. Running Myth if you want an open
source solution, or MS Windows Meeja Center if you want 'digital rights
management'

Owain

Vortex wrote:

http://tinyurl.com/6ujxq
..and read the datasheet.

I'd do some more digging on that device, I remember seeing some flack
about it on digitalspy (or maybe somewhere else?)

In article ,
Derek * wrote:
We had a lot of difficulty getting all of Tyne Tees and all of Yorkshire
plus a vcr and satellite reciever without patterning (the cheap
modulators in sat recievers and videos are double sideband and spread
over 2 channels). That was before C5 not to mention digital.

Well, yes. Hence the restriction to 5 analogue channels in the UK. Using
'free' parts for a modulator doesn't mean you'll be free of problems that
broadcasts would have had.

I've seen plenty multi-channel UHF systems used in TV studios, etc.
They're all rubbish. Only safe way is to use baseband.

--
*A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Mon, 03 Jan 2005 18:17:22 +0000, Andy Burns
strung together this:

Vortex wrote:

http://tinyurl.com/6ujxq
..and read the datasheet.

I'd do some more digging on that device,

What device? (No internet access currently, long story don't ask).
--

SJW
Please reply to group or use 'usenet' in email subject

"Andy Burns" wrote in message
...
Vortex wrote:

http://tinyurl.com/6ujxq
..and read the datasheet.

I'd do some more digging on that device, I remember seeing some flack
about it on digitalspy (or maybe somewhere else?)

I purchased a "Squeezebox" a few months ago (http://www.slimdevices.com/)
and I have to say it is fantastic. It does exactly what it says in the
propaganda.

Of course this does only audio (and that's all I wanted), the killer feature
is the integral display (no need for a TV to be in to use it). ....there are
no more CD's in my living room for the children to disrespect!

Having switched on to this technology the D-link device [or something like
it] is most compelling. Of course you would also need some kind of "network
attached" Hard Disk Recorder to complete the picture.

I'm sure in the coming months some interesting kit will become available.

[Actually this stuff already exists if you are prepared to "Sell out" to
Bill Gates - in the form of Windows Media Center
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/m...r/default.mspx ]

David

"Lurch" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 03 Jan 2005 18:17:22 +0000, Andy Burns
strung together this:

Vortex wrote:

http://tinyurl.com/6ujxq
..and read the datasheet.

I'd do some more digging on that device,

What device? (No internet access currently, long story don't ask).
--

SJW
Please reply to group or use 'usenet' in email subject

D-Link DSM-320 wireless media player.

How did you post your message then?

David.

On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 18:56:54 -0000, "Vortex"
strung together this:

D-Link DSM-320 wireless media player.

Ah, right. I'd steer clear on D-Link altogether. I fitted a few D-Link
modems and firewalls for clients last year and have had nothing but
trouble with them.
Wireless networks aren't exactly the best way to distribute a
distribution system around the home as the network gets clogged up
when everyone tries to watch TV at once.

How did you post your message then?

I've got NTP access, but internet access is a PITA as I'm back to a
dodgy VNC connection to the machine with the copy of Agent on it,
which doesn't do http very well as it's geting on a bit.
Time to buy some new PC's I think.
--

SJW
Please reply to group or use 'usenet' in email subject

Derek * wrote:

PC with TV card equated to low resolution and frame rate when I tried
it. Only really good enough for watching in a small window whilst
working at the PC.

PC with USB frame grabber is still only vcr resolution, but with no tape
noise (better), but with compression artifacts (worse). TV was recorded
as raw data IIRC 1 hour = 37 gigabytes! Compressing it to Mpeg takes
several hours, busies up the PC like nobody's business and the final
Mpeg file is about 1,100 Mb/hour.

TV cards have moved on a *long* way from this. Not as simple or cheap as
a standalone DVD recorder, but cards like these:

www.nebula-electronics.com

will record broadcast mpeg stream (freeview) direct, full PAL
resolution, approx 1GB per hour. No need to convert from AVI to mpeg,
takes approx 15-30 minutes on a fast pc to transfer to DVD if required
(I am currently copying a file to DVD as I type - you only need to leave
the computer to itself whilst actually burning the DVD). Quality should
be at least as good as a DVD recorder.

Coupled with a listings guide like www.digiguide.com (or even just with
its own 7 day EPG) you have the basis of a very powerful and user
friendly system.

Obviously it is not for everyone, and you need a fast pc, but it does
work very well. This particular card also lets you view television
across a network, so I have the card in one pc and can watch TV on any
other pc connected to the network.

Cheers,

Chris

Vortex wrote:

Cat 5/6 wiring should be all that's necessary going forwards (or perhaps no
wiring at all). Take a look at

http://tinyurl.com/6ujxq

..and read the datasheet.

David

Another option is this device:

http://www.hauppauge.co.uk/pages/pro..._mediamvp.html

Though I don't have any personal experience of it.

Chris

On Mon, 03 Jan 2005 18:10:46 +0000, Derek * wrote:

A different Usenet group?

uk.tech.broadcast

cough That group is really for camera/microphone to transmitter
after that many other groups take over, try:

uk.tech.digital-tv, uk.tech.tv.sky, uk.tech.tv.video.pvr

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

Lurch wrote:
Andy Burns wrote:
Vortex wrote:

http://tinyurl.com/6ujxq
..and read the datasheet.

I'd do some more digging on that device,

What device? (No internet access currently, long story don't ask).

It's a D-Link ethernet/wifi box that connects to your TV/AV setup and
lets you stream audio/video (MP3/MPEG/DIVX etc) from your PC ...

Vortex wrote:

I purchased a "Squeezebox" a few months ago (http://www.slimdevices.com/)
and I have to say it is fantastic. It does exactly what it says in the
propaganda.

I liked the look of them too

Of course this does only audio (and that's all I wanted), the killer feature
is the integral display (no need for a TV to be in to use it). ....there are
no more CD's in my living room for the children to disrespect!

All my CDs are in a cupboard upstairs (and ripped to MP3 too of course)
before buying a squezebox I though I'd better have a look at what else
is around, the DLink caught my eye, even though I dont particularly
want/need video streaming at the moment

Having switched on to this technology the D-link device [or something like
it] is most compelling. Of course you would also need some kind of "network
attached" Hard Disk Recorder to complete the picture.

I think it talks to a server process on a windows PC via it's
Wifi/ethernet interface, it would be nice to have something a bit more
open than that

I'm sure in the coming months some interesting kit will become available.

Yes I think I'll bide my time a while now ...

[Actually this stuff already exists if you are prepared to "Sell out" to
Bill Gates - in the form of Windows Media Center
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/m...r/default.mspx ]

No thanks, can't escape windows as a desktop O/S yet, but have done for
server and don't plan to make my TV prone to BSOD

Any wiring you install should IMHO be ducted. Whatever technology you
install will be out of date in 10 years time so it would be nice to be
able to upgrade as time and money permit, without having to rip
plaster off walls

Anna

~~ Anna Kettle, Suffolk, England
|""""| ~ Lime plaster repairs
/ ^^ \ // Freehand modelling in lime: overmantels, pargeting etc
|____| www.kettlenet.co.uk 01359 230642

On Mon, 03 Jan 2005 19:53:49 +0000, Andy Burns
strung together this:

It's a D-Link ethernet/wifi box that connects to your TV/AV setup and
lets you stream audio/video (MP3/MPEG/DIVX etc) from your PC ...

Something similar to my Hauppauge MVP then, which I'm extremely
pleased with, but with WiFi.
--

SJW
Please reply to group or use 'usenet' in email subject

Chris wrote:

www.nebula-electronics.com

Obviously it is not for everyone, and you need a fast pc, but it does
work very well. This particular card also lets you view television
across a network, so I have the card in one pc and can watch TV on any
other pc connected to the network.

I've got one of these, but have never managed to get it to work across
the network on another PC. Any tips??!!

Am also a bit worried that doing so, and permitting the required access
to the PCs, might leave my network vulnerable to attack from the outside
(mentioned by the manufacturer) - do you know if that's an issue? My net
access is via a router, and am running Windoze firewalla.

David

"Vortex" wrote in message
...


Cat 5/6 wiring should be all that's necessary going forwards (or perhaps
no
wiring at all). Take a look at

I would say definately go for fixed wiring and put in as many cat5 or cat6
as you pretty much can stuff in the walls. You can get adaptors, baluns and
converters for almost anything concievable in a modern house that can run on
cat5.


http://tinyurl.com/6ujxq

Which is nice until all your neighbours buys one of them and the nobody can
use any of them. The available bandwidth does not warrent that everybody
starts using wireless and the more people that uses this the worse it gets.


..and read the datasheet.

I did, which confirms my warning above. It uses 54Mbps wireless so is even
worse on bandwidth requirements.

It may still be a good device, provided you disable it's wireless
capabilities and use cat5 and put it in a 100Mbps switches network, I think
that i'll do that if I was in your situation :-)



/Morten



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.825 / Virus Database: 563 - Release Date: 30/12/2004

"Morten" wrote in message
...

"Vortex" wrote in message
...

snipped

http://tinyurl.com/6ujxq

Which is nice until all your neighbours buys one of them and the nobody can
use any of them. The available bandwidth does not warrent that everybody
starts using wireless and the more people that uses this the worse it gets.


Reminds me of yet another story. It's the one about the door to door salesman
who sold wireless door bell systems all along one street. The door bells worked
fine. No faults in their circuits or installation. But when number 23 had a
caller at the door, numbers 20 through 31 also had their wireless door bell
ringing. Wireless rocks !!! :-) LOL

"Vortex" wrote
| [Actually this stuff already exists if you are prepared to "Sell out" to
| Bill Gates - in the form of Windows Media Center
| http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/m...r/default.mspx ]

Already exists in open source software too; I happened to be reading about
it the other day.

checks web history

Building a Linux PVR part 1- Myth
http://anandtech.com/linux/showdoc.aspx?i=2190

Building a Linux PVR part 2 - Myth vs MCE
http://anandtech.com/linux/showdoc.aspx?i=2208

Linux on an XBox
http://www.anandtech.com/linux/showdoc.aspx?i=2271

Turn your XBox into a Linux Media PC
http://news.designtechnica.com/article5915.html

Owain

On Mon, 03 Jan 2005 19:46:44 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Mon, 03 Jan 2005 18:10:46 +0000, Derek * wrote:

A different Usenet group?

uk.tech.broadcast

cough That group is really for camera/microphone to transmitter
after that many other groups take over, try:

uk.tech.digital-tv, uk.tech.tv.sky, uk.tech.tv.video.pvr


Yes of course Dave. I had subscribed to some of them before my system
crashed and had to be rebuilt, just not yet got round to re-subscribing.

uk.tech.broadcast was my favourite, it would be a useful group to read
but not to post to on this topic.

DG

Owain wrote:

"Vortex" wrote
| [Actually this stuff already exists if you are prepared to "Sell out" to
| Bill Gates - in the form of Windows Media Center
| http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/m...r/default.mspx ]

Already exists in open source software too; I happened to be reading about
it the other day.

checks web history

Building a Linux PVR part 1- Myth
http://anandtech.com/linux/showdoc.aspx?i=2190

Building a Linux PVR part 2 - Myth vs MCE
http://anandtech.com/linux/showdoc.aspx?i=2208

Linux on an XBox
http://www.anandtech.com/linux/showdoc.aspx?i=2271

Turn your XBox into a Linux Media PC
http://news.designtechnica.com/article5915.html

Owain


www.tv-cards.com is also a good starting point for some of the options

Chris

Lobster wrote:

Am also a bit worried that doing so, and permitting the required access
to the PCs, might leave my network vulnerable to attack from the outside
(mentioned by the manufacturer) - do you know if that's an issue? My net
access is via a router, and am running Windoze firewalla.

Your router in it's self provides basic firewalling. Most Routers have
aditional firewall capabilites buit in, so, regardless of your internal
PC's "protection", once your router has been bridged by attacker your
pretty much fkd so as to speak.

Most hackers are only interested in stuff of significant interest so
you'd be safe unless you were a government agent etc.

The rest of the PC attacks are people looking for open PC's for using as
spamming agents or to use for DOS attacks etc etc, so your routrer
should give protection agains most instances.

IMHO of course.

--
http://gymratz.co.uk - Best Gym Equipment & Bodybuilding Supplements UK.
http://trade-price-supplements.co.uk - TRADE PRICED SUPPLEMENTS for ALL!
http://fitness-equipment-uk.com - UK's No.1 Fitness Equipment Suppliers.
http://gymratz.co.uk/hot-seat.htm - Live web-cam! (sometimes)

Graham Harrison wrote:

Just bought a new (well 2nd hand!) house originally built on the 30s and
extended in the 80s and then again in the late 90s. We don't have an
outside TV aerial and I'm thinking of getting one installed. That has set
me thinking about how to then distribute the signal though the house. It
used to be easy, bring the wire into the house, split the cable and away you
go (bear in mind it's over 20 years since I last did this).

Use a masthead or loft amplifier to boost and split to numerous TV
sockets in all teh rooms. Works well for me.

Now, it might
be nice to make it possible to view the output from a video machine situated
with one TV on a different TV.

No, not really. People want to control the thing themsleves. Theres
enough battling going on on our house over what to watch without 'er
indoors randomly changing stuff in my den etc :-)

get a video for every room that needs one. Cheaper in the long run.

With the emergence of PCs with TV (and huge
discs to allow video recording etc) the possibility of networking such a PC
with other PCs and also allowing another TV to view video from the PC hard
disc is another thing I'd like to allow for even if I don't have the kit
right now. And then, of course, there's the issue of controlling lights,
heating etc.

The best thing you can probbaly do is more or less what I did.
Run coax and a couple of cat 5's to just about everywhere, and leave the
arse ends of them coiled up in a room with a 19" rack in it, or indeed
the loft.

Not all of it is connected, but the cables are there anyway.

Howevr my experience of wiring up offices sugesst that teh concept of
future proofing is flawed: Who wopuld have guessed that 5 years on we
would be lifting floors and laying multimode fibres? Or trhat the
totality ofte p[hone wiring would be superceded by something else?

And of course Murphys law of employees alwas states that the one plave
She will want a TV/PC/slaer guided missiles installation is the one
place where there are no sockets, nor any chance of geting some..




I probably need to do some background reading first if only to rein in some
of my wilder thinking. I see there's a "Dummies" book on the subject; any
good? Any other books? Any web sites I should peruse? A different
Usenet group?

The house is on the South Somerset/Mendip council border. Anyone happen to
know an installer in the area?

Thank you for any pointers.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...

And of course Murphys law of employees alwas states that the one plave
She will want a TV/PC/slaer guided missiles installation is the one
place where there are no sockets, nor any chance of geting some..

Have you met mine :-)


/Morten




---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.825 / Virus Database: 563 - Release Date: 30/12/2004

Lobster wrote:
Chris wrote:

www.nebula-electronics.com


Obviously it is not for everyone, and you need a fast pc, but it does
work very well. This particular card also lets you view television
across a network, so I have the card in one pc and can watch TV on any
other pc connected to the network.


I've got one of these, but have never managed to get it to work across
the network on another PC. Any tips??!!

Am also a bit worried that doing so, and permitting the required access
to the PCs, might leave my network vulnerable to attack from the outside
(mentioned by the manufacturer) - do you know if that's an issue? My net
access is via a router, and am running Windoze firewalla.

David

It did take me a bit of playing around. Once you have set the IP address
of the client (on the server machine, I haven't tried multicast) and
then started the client software on the remote machine, how far did it get?

One thing I found was that the pc's firewalls were getting in the way
(Zonealarm on both and Nvidia on one). It doesn't appear to be a 'true'
client/server configuration, in that the client seems to 'announce' its
presence and the server then connects to it, which I had to set some
rules in the firewall to allow.

One option would be to disconnect the internet side of your router so
that you can turn off the firewalls and play safely. Then when you have
everything working and the firewalls re-enabled, reconnect the internet
side.

AIUI, if you have NAT enabled on your router you should be safe
(relatively), but I am no expert (they all live in
comp.security.firewalls and don't play nice with beginners)

To check, go to http://www.grc.com/default.htm and select 'Shields Up'.
Opinions differ about the validity of 'Stealth mode' but as long as all
your ports are listed as closed or stealth you should be safe (though no
guarantees)

You may also need to set your network cards for 'optimise for
throughput' rather than 'optimise for cpu'

HTH,

Chris

In message , Lurch
writes
On Mon, 03 Jan 2005 18:17:22 +0000, Andy Burns
strung together this:

Vortex wrote:

http://tinyurl.com/6ujxq
..and read the datasheet.

I'd do some more digging on that device,

What device? (No internet access currently, long story don't ask).

Wossis, a ghost post ?

--
geoff

On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 23:09:43 GMT, raden strung
together this:

(No internet access currently, long story don't ask).

Wossis, a ghost post ?

No, see other post with answer above!
--

SJW
Please reply to group or use 'usenet' in email subject