Hi,
I know that aerial installs were covered here on "few" occasions but
I did not find answers via searching news groups and net.
Planning to install two new aerials for TV /incl freeview/ and fm radio.
/Streatham, London, about 1-2 miles from Crystal Palace transmitter/.
I would like to install both aerials on one mast. I vaguely remember that
in that case there should be a certain distance between them / something to
do
with the wavelength they operate?/ Or is it just not good practice to put
them together?
What about the distance from other aerials?
How to calculate the signal strength? /my Naim Audio tuner need min 600mV
for 'full quieting'/
Your opinions on omni circular fm aerial
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/MX395.html
versus normal one.

Thank you in advance
Rafal

On Wed, 5 May 2004 07:45:58 +0100, "Rafal"
wrote:

Hi,
I know that aerial installs were covered here on "few" occasions but
I did not find answers via searching news groups and net.
Planning to install two new aerials for TV /incl freeview/ and fm radio.
/Streatham, London, about 1-2 miles from Crystal Palace transmitter/.
I would like to install both aerials on one mast. I vaguely remember that
in that case there should be a certain distance between them / something to
do
with the wavelength they operate?/ Or is it just not good practice to put
them together?

Generally the more the better but try to keep them at least half the
wavelength of the VHF antenna apart. If you can manage at least 2m,
that would be a good idea.

What about the distance from other aerials?

As above. The issue that you are more likely to run into is having
too much signal and picking up reflected signals in an area of high
signal strength


How to calculate the signal strength? /my Naim Audio tuner need min 600mV
for 'full quieting'/

I presume that that is 600 microvolts, not millivolts.

At any rate, for where you are located, even a piece of wet string
should give more than enough signal/

Your opinions on omni circular fm aerial
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/MX395.html
versus normal one.

Normally I would say that these are junk, but again because of high
signal strength and because you probably have transmitters in
different directions but locally to where you are then not a bad idea.



Thank you in advance
Rafal


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Rafal wrote:

Planning to install two new aerials for TV /incl freeview/ and fm radio.
/Streatham, London, about 1-2 miles from Crystal Palace transmitter/.
I would like to install both aerials on one mast. I vaguely remember that
in that case there should be a certain distance between them / something to
do with the wavelength they operate?

The instructions that came with my Maxview FM aerial said it should be
at least 1m from the TV aerial if they're going on the same pole.

--
Scott

Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?

In article ,
Rafal wrote:
Your opinions on omni circular fm aerial

They are rubbish. If all the stations you want to receive are broadcast
from CP/Croydon, a simple dipole or two element will do.

The further they can be separated, the better. But the VHF aerial should
be mounted vertically these days which can make things more tricky.

You'll probably need to attenuate the UHF signal, especially if feeding a
distribution amp - I do, and I'm in Balham, with line of sight to CP.

--
*Speak softly and carry a cellular phone *

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

"Rafal" wrote in message ...
Hi,
I know that aerial installs were covered here on "few" occasions but
I did not find answers via searching news groups and net.
Planning to install two new aerials for TV /incl freeview/ and fm radio.
/Streatham, London, about 1-2 miles from Crystal Palace transmitter/.
I would like to install both aerials on one mast. I vaguely remember that
in that case there should be a certain distance between them / something to
do
with the wavelength they operate?/ Or is it just not good practice to put
them together?
What about the distance from other aerials?
How to calculate the signal strength? /my Naim Audio tuner need min 600mV
for 'full quieting'/
Your opinions on omni circular fm aerial
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/MX395.html
versus normal one.

Thank you in advance

Both aerials on one mast should be OK, keep them at least 1 metre
verticaly apart.For digital TV (Freeview) get a good quality high gain
aerial although as you are close to transmitter signal strength should
be fine. FM radio is on 88 to 108 mHz (wavelength in order of 3
metres) whilst TV is on about 650 mHz (wavelength in region of 0.5
metres) the elements of the different aerials are cut to a length
probably about one quarter of the wavelength they are designed to
receive. Hence a TV directional aerial has shorter elements than an FM
radio directional aerial.For good radio reception use a directional
aerial and point it at local FM broadcast transmitter, not
necessesarily the same place as TV transmitter. Ask at local TV shop
or look on BBC web site or phone BBC advice line. Omni directional
aerial OK but as it suggests it will receive all FM equally from 360
dgrees around so may present weaker signal to your receiver or may
introduce interference.Avoid sighting your aerials so they are blocked
by any others between you and transmitter. Hope that helps. Mark.

Planning to install two new aerials for TV /incl freeview/ and fm radio.
/Streatham, London, about 1-2 miles from Crystal Palace transmitter/.

Quite frankly, I'd give it a go with the TV aeriel inside the loft. Then you
can put just the FM aeriel on the mast. 2 miles from Crystal Palace will
have amazing signal strength, easily enough to overcome a tile/slate roof,
provided you don't get any nasty reflections.

You can easily try it out cheaply to see if you get good reception before
commiting to an external aeriel.

Christian.

Dave Plowman wrote:
In article ,
Rafal wrote:
Your opinions on omni circular fm aerial

They are rubbish. If all the stations you want to receive are broadcast
from CP/Croydon, a simple dipole or two element will do.

If you want to recieve stations at a distance, it can make an incredible
difference.
For example, the typical portable radio will pick up some 10 stations.
With a proper omni antenna (made from bamboo and copper wire) it went
up to some 80+.

In article ,
Mortimer wrote:
Omni directional
aerial OK but as it suggests it will receive all FM equally from 360
dgrees around so may present weaker signal to your receiver or may
introduce interference

More to the point they'll allow multi-path reception which is death to
decent sound quality off FM. I don't know what Streatham is like in this
respect, but I'm not that far away and it matters here - Sauf Lunnun is
full of hills.

--
*I like cats, too. Let's exchange recipes.

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

Thanks a lot.

That is exactly the info I was looking for. I want to try omni
due to the number of independent radio stations in London,
but that could kill good reception of BBC3 & 4

On Thu, 6 May 2004 07:04:55 +0100, "Rafal"
wrote:

Thanks a lot.

That is exactly the info I was looking for. I want to try omni
due to the number of independent radio stations in London,
but that could kill good reception of BBC3 & 4

Probably not.

You are also relatively close to Wrotham, which carries the national
BBC channels and has a much higher power level than the local
stations.


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:
Probably not.

You are also relatively close to Wrotham, which carries the national
BBC channels and has a much higher power level than the local
stations.

There are 'fill in' transmitters for the national stations at CP. Before
these reception in my part of London was more akin to parts of Wales.

I used to drive to work via Trinity Road which runs from Wandsworth Bridge
to Tooting Bec, crossing Wandsworth Common. And in the traffic jam
crossing the common in the morning, R4 would cancel so completely due to
multipath that you couldn't understand speech.
Sometime in the late '80s, John Birt the then DG of the BBC bought a
house just off Trinity Road - which never sprouted an external VHF aerial
- so either he had a line feed of the main BBC stations, or he never
listened to them on FM, as portable radio reception was near impossible.
Then shortly afterwards these 'fill in' transmitters appeared with R4
being the first.

Before this I had experimented with an 8 element VHF on every chimney
stack in the house trying for best results from Wrotham, but never got
100% satisfactory results.

However, IIRC these transmitters are vertically polarised only, and since
all the others are mixed polarisation it makes sense to have the aerial
vertically mounted - which non of the riggers round here seem to have
cottoned on to...

--
*If love is blind, why is lingerie so popular? *

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

In article ,
Christian McArdle wrote:
Planning to install two new aerials for TV /incl freeview/ and fm radio.
/Streatham, London, about 1-2 miles from Crystal Palace transmitter/.

Quite frankly, I'd give it a go with the TV aeriel inside the loft.

NO NO NO, not if he wants it to work properly, assuming you are talking
about an aerial.



--
AJL Electronics (G6FGO) Ltd : Satellite and TV aerial systems
http://www.classicmicrocars.co.uk : http://www.ajlelectronics.co.uk

Quite frankly, I'd give it a go with the TV aeriel inside the loft.

NO NO NO, not if he wants it to work properly, assuming you are
talking about an aerial.

Obviously normally you wouldn't even think about it. However, 2 miles from
CP must be worth a shot. I've had excellent reception from a reasonable
quality aeriel inside a loft 20 miles from Hannington.

If it doesn't work, then you haven't lost anything. The aeriel just goes on
the mast.

Christian.

In article ,
Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics) wrote:
Quite frankly, I'd give it a go with the TV aeriel inside the loft.

NO NO NO, not if he wants it to work properly, assuming you are talking
about an aerial.

The signal strengths from CP are very high, and it might well work fine,
depending on the roofing materials. It could be easy enough to try -
certainly not the same as fiddling about on a roof.

--
*I'm not your type. I'm not inflatable.

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

certainly not the same as fiddling about on a roof.

Then you would be a fiddler on the roof!

In article ,
Ric wrote:
certainly not the same as fiddling about on a roof.

Then you would be a fiddler on the roof!

But if only I were a rich man...

--
*Verbs HAS to agree with their subjects *

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

In article ,
Christian McArdle wrote:
Quite frankly, I'd give it a go with the TV aeriel inside the loft.

NO NO NO, not if he wants it to work properly, assuming you are
talking about an aerial.

Obviously normally you wouldn't even think about it. However, 2 miles from
CP must be worth a shot.

It is irrelevant that the signal strength is high. The reflection are the
killer. BTW it is an AERIAL.

--
AJL Electronics (G6FGO) Ltd : Satellite and TV aerial systems
http://www.classicmicrocars.co.uk : http://www.ajlelectronics.co.uk

It is irrelevant that the signal strength is high. The reflection are
the killer.

Indeed, as I stated in my first reply. I've also had excellent reception
from a loft aerial before. I'm not saying that it will work in every (or
even many) cases, but as it is a free bet, you might as well try it.

BTW it is an AERIAL.

I knew it didn't look quite right...

Christian.

In article ,
Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics) wrote:
It is irrelevant that the signal strength is high. The reflection are the
killer. BTW it is an AERIAL.

In practice it's still worth a try. As I'm sure you know, UHF is funny
stuff that has rules of its own. Whether you'll get refections off
anything inside a roof void is anybody's guess.

--
*Whatever kind of look you were going for, you missed.

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

"Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics)" wrote in message
. ..
In article ,
Christian McArdle wrote:
Planning to install two new aerials for TV /incl freeview/ and fm radio.
/Streatham, London, about 1-2 miles from Crystal Palace transmitter/.

Quite frankly, I'd give it a go with the TV aeriel inside the loft.

NO NO NO, not if he wants it to work properly, assuming you are talking
about an aerial.

I've got a new Freeview box connected using ancient brown cable
and several connectors.to a 20 quid (ish) aerial from CPC inside
my loft, pointed at Winter Hill about 20 miles away.
How should I tell if it is not working properly?

In article , Andy Luckman
(AJL Electronics) writes
In article ,
Christian McArdle wrote:
Quite frankly, I'd give it a go with the TV aeriel inside the loft.

NO NO NO, not if he wants it to work properly, assuming you are
talking about an aerial.

Obviously normally you wouldn't even think about it. However, 2 miles from
CP must be worth a shot.

It is irrelevant that the signal strength is high. The reflection are the
killer. BTW it is an AERIAL.


I would expect at that distance attenuators are more like what's called
for. The strength in a loft will be quite high too. So as its attenuated
the ratio of wanted/refelcted signal will stay the same and the
reflected signals will disappear into the noise, as it were....
--
Tony Sayer

Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics) wrote:

In article ,
Christian McArdle wrote:

Planning to install two new aerials for TV /incl freeview/ and fm radio.
/Streatham, London, about 1-2 miles from Crystal Palace transmitter/.

Quite frankly, I'd give it a go with the TV aeriel inside the loft.


NO NO NO, not if he wants it to work properly, assuming you are talking
about an aerial.




Mine are inside and work extremely well. Better than the old one that used

to be strapped to the chimney.



Not a bad way to fgpo if its clear from mertalioc stuff, at up to
50-0Mhz. Above that it starte getting dubious, so staellite dished es
no. But VHF and UHF - definitely worth a try.

Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics) wrote:

In article ,
Christian McArdle wrote:

Quite frankly, I'd give it a go with the TV aeriel inside the loft.

NO NO NO, not if he wants it to work properly, assuming you are
talking about an aerial.

Obviously normally you wouldn't even think about it. However, 2 miles from
CP must be worth a shot.


It is irrelevant that the signal strength is high. The reflection are the
killer. BTW it is an AERIAL.




Indeed. And you may eaily get ore reflections outside than in. Not
everybody has a galv steel water tank in their loft.

Nick Finnigan wrote:

"Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics)" wrote in message
. ..

In article ,
Christian McArdle wrote:

Planning to install two new aerials for TV /incl freeview/ and fm radio.
/Streatham, London, about 1-2 miles from Crystal Palace transmitter/.

Quite frankly, I'd give it a go with the TV aeriel inside the loft.

NO NO NO, not if he wants it to work properly, assuming you are talking
about an aerial.


I've got a new Freeview box connected using ancient brown cable
and several connectors.to a 20 quid (ish) aerial from CPC inside
my loft, pointed at Winter Hill about 20 miles away.
How should I tell if it is not working properly?




If it hasn't got gold plated connectors, its not working properly.

Any Hi Fi enthusiast can tell you THAT :-)

You will probably find you are missing at least one row of pixels, and
michael fish is distinctly greener, especially on digital where as any
hifi enthusiast will tell you, degradation is totally contrary to
digital theory, and is a function of how much red tape you wrap it with
to cut down the laser reflections. Or something.

Unfortunately I do not have a loefot /..sorry loft/. It is a ground floor
flat


"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
. net...
It is irrelevant that the signal strength is high. The reflection are
the killer.

Indeed, as I stated in my first reply. I've also had excellent reception
from a loft aerial before. I'm not saying that it will work in every (or
even many) cases, but as it is a free bet, you might as well try it.

BTW it is an AERIAL.

I knew it didn't look quite right...

Christian.

What a story. I wish I could try every chimney stack in the house,
but its height of approx 11 meters will give me probably one shot
at it


"Dave Plowman" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:
Probably not.

You are also relatively close to Wrotham, which carries the national
BBC channels and has a much higher power level than the local
stations.

There are 'fill in' transmitters for the national stations at CP. Before
these reception in my part of London was more akin to parts of Wales.

I used to drive to work via Trinity Road which runs from Wandsworth Bridge
to Tooting Bec, crossing Wandsworth Common. And in the traffic jam
crossing the common in the morning, R4 would cancel so completely due to
multipath that you couldn't understand speech.
Sometime in the late '80s, John Birt the then DG of the BBC bought a
house just off Trinity Road - which never sprouted an external VHF aerial
- so either he had a line feed of the main BBC stations, or he never
listened to them on FM, as portable radio reception was near impossible.
Then shortly afterwards these 'fill in' transmitters appeared with R4
being the first.

Before this I had experimented with an 8 element VHF on every chimney
stack in the house trying for best results from Wrotham, but never got
100% satisfactory results.

However, IIRC these transmitters are vertically polarised only, and since
all the others are mixed polarisation it makes sense to have the aerial
vertically mounted - which non of the riggers round here seem to have
cottoned on to...

--
*If love is blind, why is lingerie so popular? *

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

In article , Rafal
wrote:

What a story. I wish I could try every chimney stack in the house,
but its height of approx 11 meters will give me probably one shot
at it

Have a look he

http://www.allmyfaqs.com/faq.pl?How_to_post

--
AJL Electronics (G6FGO) Ltd : Satellite and TV aerial systems
http://www.classicmicrocars.co.uk : http://www.ajlelectronics.co.uk