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Problems sharpening chisels
On Tue, 04 May 2004 10:58:31 +0100, Howard Neil
wrote: Read what I said again. The side of the wheel is flat on a Tormek stone and runs true. Since you only flatten surfaces with the side of the wheel, there is not reason for it to become grooved. A Tormek is a pretty small wheel - you're going to be working at a range of radii such that the linear speed on the outside will be nearly twice that on the inner radius. That's going to grind you a nice smooth chisel, but not a flat one. -- Smert' spamionam |
Problems sharpening chisels
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Problems sharpening chisels
Andy Dingley wrote:
On Tue, 04 May 2004 10:58:31 +0100, Howard Neil wrote: Read what I said again. The side of the wheel is flat on a Tormek stone and runs true. Since you only flatten surfaces with the side of the wheel, there is not reason for it to become grooved. A Tormek is a pretty small wheel - you're going to be working at a range of radii such that the linear speed on the outside will be nearly twice that on the inner radius. That's going to grind you a nice smooth chisel, but not a flat one. That is a red herring. The speed differential makes no difference since you move the blade about. Try it. It works. -- Howard Neil |
Problems sharpening chisels
Howard Neil wrote in message .. .
jacob wrote: I always amazed at the difficulties people have with the simplest things - especially when they try and do them with a machine. You do not ever need to grind, hone or otherwise disturb the back of a chisel unless it's pitted with rust , or seriously bent (not possible with a good quality chisel). However you do need to remove the wire edge after honing. This is done by holding the chisel flat on an oilstone and moving it about a bit. It takes about 2seconds. This depends on how sharp you need the edge to be. If you are doing hand work on a very hard wood and you want the cut to be of very high quality, it helps if the edge is very sharp. If you polish both the back and the bevel, the edge will be smoother and sharper. If you were to look at an edge that had not been polished through a microscope, you would see lots of ridges and valleys. Polishing reduces these. If, of course, you are simply running some softwood through a thicknesser and the wood is for joinery that will never be seen, there is no need to worry too much. Polishing yes, but they were talking about grinding on a wheel. You can get a very sharp edge with an ordinary stone - thicker oil gives finer finish, and if you want it even sharper then polish on leather with metal polish. I've got a bit of leather stuck down on plywood which does the job. In general there are lots of people out there producing lovely catalogues full of things no one really needs. Simple cheap old fashioned methods often best. cheers Jacob cheers Jacob |
Problems sharpening chisels
Andy Dingley wrote in message . ..
On 4 May 2004 07:23:04 -0700, (jacob) wrote: However you do need to remove the wire edge after honing. What's a wire edge ? Haven't seen one of those since I discovered that chrome vanadium wasn't a good thing to have in a hand tool steel alloy. Well my chisels and planes, ancient and modern, must all be chrome vanadium and I didn't know! They seem to work allright though - no probs at all, or is there anything else wrong with chrome vanadium which I don't know about? How do you tell which is what - and whats the alternative to chrome/vanadium? cheers Jacob |
Problems sharpening chisels
jacob wrote:
Polishing yes, but they were talking about grinding on a wheel. You can get a very sharp edge with an ordinary stone - thicker oil gives finer finish, and if you want it even sharper then polish on leather with metal polish. I've got a bit of leather stuck down on plywood which does the job. In general there are lots of people out there producing lovely catalogues full of things no one really needs. Simple cheap old fashioned methods often best. There is nothing new about a water cooled wheel. There is also nothing wrong with a flat stone. I have both (and I also have a piece of leather stuck to a length of wood). It all depends on what blades you are sharpening and what you are going to use them for. The majority of the time, the Tormek wins hands down for both speed and finish (it also has a leather wheel for finishing). -- Howard Neil |
Problems sharpening chisels
On Wed, 05 May 2004 21:56:19 +0100, Howard Neil
wrote: jacob wrote: Polishing yes, but they were talking about grinding on a wheel. You can get a very sharp edge with an ordinary stone - thicker oil gives finer finish, and if you want it even sharper then polish on leather with metal polish. I've got a bit of leather stuck down on plywood which does the job. In general there are lots of people out there producing lovely catalogues full of things no one really needs. Simple cheap old fashioned methods often best. There is nothing new about a water cooled wheel. There is also nothing wrong with a flat stone. I have both (and I also have a piece of leather stuck to a length of wood). It all depends on what blades you are sharpening and what you are going to use them for. The majority of the time, the Tormek wins hands down for both speed and finish (it also has a leather wheel for finishing). Certainly. I do both as well.... ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
Problems sharpening chisels
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Problems sharpening chisels
Andy Dingley wrote in message . ..
On 5 May 2004 09:21:13 -0700, (jacob) wrote: Well my chisels and planes, ancient and modern, must all be chrome vanadium and I didn't know! Quite probably. Since the '50s or so (when such alloys became much cheaper) they've been near universal. The advantage is that you can machine grind them faster without drawing the temper (handy for cheap mass production). The disadvantge is that they won't go anything like as hard, nor will they take a _really_ good edge. There are complex alloys around that _are_ good for woodworking tools, A2 in particular. On the whole though, simple old high carbon alloys like 1095 are still some of the best, or O1 if you're making your own. But the 'wire edge' thing happens with my oldest chisels - some ancient mortice chisels definitely pre war if not pre 1st war. What brands of tool use better alloys? cheers Jacob |
Problems sharpening chisels
jacob wrote:
Andy Dingley wrote... jacob wrote: However you do need to remove the wire edge after honing. What's a wire edge ? Haven't seen one of those since I discovered that chrome vanadium wasn't a good thing to have in a hand tool steel alloy. Well my chisels and planes, ancient and modern, must all be chrome vanadium and I didn't know! Don't worry about prima-donna-ish ballcocks (to use a plumbing phrase). They seem to work allright though - no probs at all, or is there anything else wrong with chrome vanadium which I don't know about? I bet most of your chisels are like mine, and not made of chrome vanadium. Remember that some people spend all their time titivating and yapping and no flippin' time working! J.B. |
Problems sharpening chisels
Michael Mcneil wrote:
Get a belt sander. They are cheap enough these days. Just a cheapo will do, beware the price of replacement abrasives though. They're more useful with some sort of variable speed. Excellent for sharpening/shaping things on, too, as you say. J.B. |
Problems sharpening chisels
Well my chisels and planes, ancient and modern, must all be
chrome vanadium and I didn't know! Don't worry about prima-donna-ish ballcocks (to use a plumbing phrase). They seem to work allright though - no probs at all, or is there anything else wrong with chrome vanadium which I don't know about? I bet most of your chisels are like mine, and not made of chrome vanadium. Remember that some people spend all their time titivating and yapping and no flippin' time working! Your right Jerry. I bet people with 'tormeks' etc get through no end of chisels and don't have time for much woodwork. My pathetic set will probably see me out - I'm certainly not going to exchange them for the latest trendy and expensive alternatives. cheers Jacob |
Problems sharpening chisels
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Problems sharpening chisels
Andy Hall wrote in message . ..
On 8 May 2004 00:32:25 -0700, (jacob) wrote: Well my chisels and planes, ancient and modern, must all be chrome vanadium and I didn't know! Don't worry about prima-donna-ish ballcocks (to use a plumbing phrase). They seem to work allright though - no probs at all, or is there anything else wrong with chrome vanadium which I don't know about? I bet most of your chisels are like mine, and not made of chrome vanadium. Remember that some people spend all their time titivating and yapping and no flippin' time working! Your right Jerry. I bet people with 'tormeks' etc get through no end of chisels and don't have time for much woodwork. My pathetic set will probably see me out - I'm certainly not going to exchange them for the latest trendy and expensive alternatives. cheers Jacob Surprisingly not, Jacob. A water cooled revolving wet stone is hardly modern high technology and is a fast and easy way of keeping virtually all tools with edges in excellent condition. The Tormek has the variety of jigs to make it easy and fast to sharpen items when needed to the required angles. This gives me more time to actually use the tools and I wouldn't use either of the words 'trendy' and 'expensive' to describe it. These days, cloth is made on powered looms as well....... :-) .andy I expect you are right, but there is an astonishing amount of gear freakery associated with wood work nowadays which in my view should be treated with a good helping of sceptiscm. Lots of traditional babies getting thrown out with the bath water. jacob |
Problems sharpening chisels
In article ,
says... Andy Hall wrote in message . .. On 8 May 2004 00:32:25 -0700, (jacob) wrote: Well my chisels and planes, ancient and modern, must all be chrome vanadium and I didn't know! Don't worry about prima-donna-ish ballcocks (to use a plumbing phrase). They seem to work allright though - no probs at all, or is there anything else wrong with chrome vanadium which I don't know about? I bet most of your chisels are like mine, and not made of chrome vanadium. Remember that some people spend all their time titivating and yapping and no flippin' time working! Your right Jerry. I bet people with 'tormeks' etc get through no end of chisels and don't have time for much woodwork. My pathetic set will probably see me out - I'm certainly not going to exchange them for the latest trendy and expensive alternatives. cheers Jacob Surprisingly not, Jacob. A water cooled revolving wet stone is hardly modern high technology and is a fast and easy way of keeping virtually all tools with edges in excellent condition. The Tormek has the variety of jigs to make it easy and fast to sharpen items when needed to the required angles. This gives me more time to actually use the tools and I wouldn't use either of the words 'trendy' and 'expensive' to describe it. These days, cloth is made on powered looms as well....... :-) .andy I expect you are right, but there is an astonishing amount of gear freakery associated with wood work nowadays which in my view should be treated with a good helping of sceptiscm. Lots of traditional babies getting thrown out with the bath water. jacob Some people get their kicks from indulging a passion for good tools. Lots make very little use of them. Its still a valid pastime nevertheless. Chacun a son gout (I can't be bothered inserting the cidilla and circumflex) The other point might be that a lot of people don't have the time to gain the experience to just whip out a whetstone, spit on it, and sharpen a chisel in a jiffy. Tools like the Tormek allow those people, and I am one in a lot of cases, achieve satisfactory proficiency. Paul Mc Cann |
Problems sharpening chisels
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Problems sharpening chisels
"Howard Neil" wrote in message ... jacob wrote: I always amazed at the difficulties people have with the simplest things - especially when they try and do them with a machine. You do not ever need to grind, hone or otherwise disturb the back of a chisel unless it's pitted with rust , or seriously bent (not possible with a good quality chisel). However you do need to remove the wire edge after honing. This is done by holding the chisel flat on an oilstone and moving it about a bit. It takes about 2seconds. This depends on how sharp you need the edge to be. If you are doing hand work on a very hard wood and you want the cut to be of very high quality, it helps if the edge is very sharp. If you polish both the back and the bevel, the edge will be smoother and sharper. If you were to look at an edge that had not been polished through a microscope, you would see lots of ridges and valleys. Polishing reduces these. If, of course, you are simply running some softwood through a thicknesser and the wood is for joinery that will never be seen, there is no need to worry too much. -- Howard Neil |
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