I have an 18th century house (no DPC) which is lime plastered on the
inside. I am doing quite a lot of work to the house and need to get
quite a lot of plastering done. I was planning to use lime plaster on
the ground floor, and the ordinary gypsum stuff on the upper floors
where damp is not an issue. Does anyone have an idea of how much extra
the lime plastering will cost, and should I persuade a plasterer to
'have a go' or get a specialist?

Please don't suggest that it's easy and I should do it myself, as
plastering is the one and only job I'm NOT doing. Plumbing, wiring,
central heating installation, bricklaying etc. YES but plastering NO!!

Fash

Take a look at
http://www.buildingconservation.com

There are many useful articles and a list of specilaists in all areas. Also
try you local conservation officer at the council. In my experience it
probably isnt worth trying to persuade a plasterer to have a go. Although
they would certainly possess the neccersary skills most will think that you
just want some builders lime (hydrated lime) added to ordinay gypsum stuff -
this is not what you want.


"Stephen Fasham" wrote in message
om...
I have an 18th century house (no DPC) which is lime plastered on the
inside. I am doing quite a lot of work to the house and need to get
quite a lot of plastering done. I was planning to use lime plaster on
the ground floor, and the ordinary gypsum stuff on the upper floors
where damp is not an issue. Does anyone have an idea of how much extra
the lime plastering will cost, and should I persuade a plasterer to
'have a go' or get a specialist?

Please don't suggest that it's easy and I should do it myself, as
plastering is the one and only job I'm NOT doing. Plumbing, wiring,
central heating installation, bricklaying etc. YES but plastering NO!!

Fash

"Andy" wrote in message
...
Take a look at
http://www.buildingconservation.com

most will think that you just want some builders lime (hydrated lime) added to
ordinay gypsum stuff - this is not what you want.

Maybe I'm wrong, but can't you use Hydrated Lime to make the lime putty? It
would work out a lot cheaper probably. I seem to remember at college years ago
learning about slaking pits and lime putty mixers

Peter

"Peter Taylor" wrote in message
...
"Andy" wrote in message
...
Take a look at
http://www.buildingconservation.com

most will think that you just want some builders lime (hydrated lime)
added to
ordinay gypsum stuff - this is not what you want.

Maybe I'm wrong, but can't you use Hydrated Lime to make the lime putty?
It
would work out a lot cheaper probably. I seem to remember at college
years ago
learning about slaking pits and lime putty mixers

Peter


That's what I've been using to make lime putty/mortar: hydrated
non-hydraulic lime. As I understand it in the old days limestone would be
roasted to get quicklime ( CaO) then doused with water to get slaked lime
( CaOH? ). I'm pretty sure slaked lime is the same as hydrated lime, so
you don't have to contend with dealing with quicklime, which is caustic
stuff.

Andy

Maybe I'm wrong, but can't you use Hydrated Lime to make the lime putty?
It
would work out a lot cheaper probably. I seem to remember at college
years ago
learning about slaking pits and lime putty mixers

Peter


That's what I've been using to make lime putty/mortar: hydrated
non-hydraulic lime. As I understand it in the old days limestone would be
roasted to get quicklime ( CaO) then doused with water to get slaked lime
( CaOH? ). I'm pretty sure slaked lime is the same as hydrated lime, so
you don't have to contend with dealing with quicklime, which is caustic
stuff.

You can use hydrated lime to make lime putty (put it in a tub of water
overnight to soak) but who would bother these days when a ready
prepared tub of lime putty is available ex stock from Jewsons. In the
old days ie 5 years ago, lime putty was much harder to get hold of and
hydrated lime was sometimes the only easy source.

Quicklime is the previous stage in the manufacturing process so there
is no need to bother about that unless you are a keen home lime
producer (and there are a surprisingly large number of them)

The Building Conservation Directory as recommended above is a good but
expensive source of lime plasterers. It costs an arm and a leg to
advertise there so your average lime plasterer (like me) won't be able
to justify it. I suggest you speak to the conservartion officer of
your local council who will give you a list of local names

Anna
--
~~ Anna Kettle, Suffolk, England
|""""| ~ Plaster conservation, freehand modelling in lime
/ ^^ \ // Overmantels, pargeting etc
|____| www.kettlenet.co.uk 01359 230642

Yes you can use Hydrated Lime to make lime putty but this is considered
inferior. The point I was making was (in general) builders/plasterers when
asked whether they work with lime plasters or mortars think it means adding
a quantity of hydrated lime to a gypsum plaster or cement based mortar or
render - which is not what is required for period property restoration.

Im interested to here that lime putty is available at Jewsons.

Pity you live in Suffolk Anna. (Pity for me that is !).

"Anna Kettle" wrote in message
...
Maybe I'm wrong, but can't you use Hydrated Lime to make the lime
putty?
It
would work out a lot cheaper probably. I seem to remember at college
years ago
learning about slaking pits and lime putty mixers

Peter


That's what I've been using to make lime putty/mortar: hydrated
non-hydraulic lime. As I understand it in the old days limestone would be
roasted to get quicklime ( CaO) then doused with water to get slaked lime
( CaOH? ). I'm pretty sure slaked lime is the same as hydrated lime, so
you don't have to contend with dealing with quicklime, which is caustic
stuff.

You can use hydrated lime to make lime putty (put it in a tub of water
overnight to soak) but who would bother these days when a ready
prepared tub of lime putty is available ex stock from Jewsons. In the
old days ie 5 years ago, lime putty was much harder to get hold of and
hydrated lime was sometimes the only easy source.

Quicklime is the previous stage in the manufacturing process so there
is no need to bother about that unless you are a keen home lime
producer (and there are a surprisingly large number of them)

The Building Conservation Directory as recommended above is a good but
expensive source of lime plasterers. It costs an arm and a leg to
advertise there so your average lime plasterer (like me) won't be able
to justify it. I suggest you speak to the conservartion officer of
your local council who will give you a list of local names

Anna
--
~~ Anna Kettle, Suffolk, England
|""""| ~ Plaster conservation, freehand modelling in lime
/ ^^ \ // Overmantels, pargeting etc
|____| www.kettlenet.co.uk 01359 230642

(Anna Kettle) wrote in message ...

You can use hydrated lime to make lime putty (put it in a tub of water
overnight to soak) but who would bother these days when a ready
prepared tub of lime putty is available ex stock from Jewsons. In the
old days ie 5 years ago, lime putty was much harder to get hold of and
hydrated lime was sometimes the only easy source.

Quicklime is the previous stage in the manufacturing process so there
is no need to bother about that unless you are a keen home lime
producer (and there are a surprisingly large number of them)

The Building Conservation Directory as recommended above is a good but
expensive source of lime plasterers. It costs an arm and a leg to
advertise there so your average lime plasterer (like me) won't be able
to justify it. I suggest you speak to the conservartion officer of
your local council who will give you a list of local names

Anna

Thanks for the info Anna, I will ask the conservation officer next
time I speak to him. Just for comparison what would your daily rate
be? If you prefer not to post it generally please e-mail me (email
exactly as posted).

Fash

In article , Andy
writes

There are many useful articles and a list of specilaists in all areas. Also
try you local conservation officer at the council. In my experience it
probably isnt worth trying to persuade a plasterer to have a go. Although
they would certainly possess the neccersary skills most will think that you
just want some builders lime (hydrated lime) added to ordinay gypsum stuff -
this is not what you want.

Try asking them if they slake their own lime - it doesn't matter whether
or not they do, its the response that counts - "Yer wot" is a bit of a
give-away.

J.
--
John Rouse

In article , Stephen
Fasham writes
I have an 18th century house (no DPC) which is lime plastered on the
inside. I am doing quite a lot of work to the house and need to get
quite a lot of plastering done. I was planning to use lime plaster on
the ground floor, and the ordinary gypsum stuff on the upper floors
where damp is not an issue. Does anyone have an idea of how much extra
the lime plastering will cost, and should I persuade a plasterer to
'have a go' or get a specialist?

Lime plastering should be cheaper, the materials are cheaper, and any
that falls to the floor can be re-used, unlike gypsum (as long as the
floor is clean), so there is less wastage. As the plaster can be worked
for longer, its easier to apply, the only downside is that it takes
longer to set.

Please don't suggest that it's easy and I should do it myself, as
plastering is the one and only job I'm NOT doing. Plumbing, wiring,
central heating installation, bricklaying etc. YES but plastering NO!!

Lime plastering is quite different to gypsum plastering - for one thing
you're not working against the clock so much.

If you're anywhere in the middle of England, give Dean Hicks in Derby a
call, he's done a lot of lime rendering, including quite a few straw
bale houses, and our 150 year old pile.

J.
--
John Rouse

In article ,
John Rouse writes:
Lime plastering should be cheaper, the materials are cheaper, and any
that falls to the floor can be re-used, unlike gypsum (as long as the
floor is clean), so there is less wastage. As the plaster can be worked
for longer, its easier to apply, the only downside is that it takes
longer to set.

In my experience, the cost of the materials (for gypsum plastering)
is quite insignificant compared to the labour cost (like about 1/10th).

Lime plastering is quite different to gypsum plastering - for one thing
you're not working against the clock so much.

No one's mentioned the horse hair yet...

--
Andrew Gabriel

Thanks for the info Anna, I will ask the conservation officer next
time I speak to him. Just for comparison what would your daily rate
be? If you prefer not to post it generally please e-mail me (email
exactly as posted).

I charge £20 an hour if I'm doing an hourly rate, but generally I give
a price for the job

Anna
--
~~ Anna Kettle, Suffolk, England
|""""| ~ Plaster conservation, freehand modelling in lime
/ ^^ \ // Overmantels, pargeting etc
|____| www.kettlenet.co.uk 01359 230642

Lime plastering should be cheaper, the materials are cheaper, and any
that falls to the floor can be re-used, unlike gypsum (as long as the
floor is clean), so there is less wastage. As the plaster can be worked
for longer, its easier to apply, the only downside is that it takes
longer to set.

No its not cheaper its more expensive because lime takes longer to set
than gypsum and it has to be tended during that time. The tending time
adds a certain amount to the bill

Anna
--
~~ Anna Kettle, Suffolk, England
|""""| ~ Plaster conservation, freehand modelling in lime
/ ^^ \ // Overmantels, pargeting etc
|____| www.kettlenet.co.uk 01359 230642

(Anna Kettle) wrote in message ...
Lime plastering should be cheaper, the materials are cheaper, and any
that falls to the floor can be re-used, unlike gypsum (as long as the
floor is clean), so there is less wastage. As the plaster can be worked
for longer, its easier to apply, the only downside is that it takes
longer to set.


No its not cheaper its more expensive because lime takes longer to set
than gypsum and it has to be tended during that time. The tending time
adds a certain amount to the bill


It shrinks and cracks during that time? I ask cos I have this insane
idea of trying a small bit of lime plastering one day later in the
year. I've never plastered anything.


I was reading up on making the stuff, and I gather quicklime is whats
wanted, slaking it yourself. I have some hydrated lime here - is it
possible to put it in the oven to dry it out? Or is that nuts? I
ask because I know lime based dehumidifiers can be recharged by oven
heating the wet lime.

I looked up quicklime manufacture, but that process is quite different
to just driving off moisture, and I would expect one need not use the
same kind of high temps just for drying. I did google but didnt get
what I wanted to find out.


Regards, NT

It shrinks and cracks during that time? I ask cos I have this insane
idea of trying a small bit of lime plastering one day later in the
year. I've never plastered anything.

Yes it will need a light spray and to be consolidated with a float a
couple of times. Lime plaster needs CO2 and water to set so you
mustn't let it dry out completely in the first week or so. Equally you
mustn't drown it or the air won't get into the pores


I was reading up on making the stuff, and I gather quicklime is whats
wanted, slaking it yourself. I have some hydrated lime here - is it
possible to put it in the oven to dry it out? Or is that nuts? I
ask because I know lime based dehumidifiers can be recharged by oven
heating the wet lime.

Ignore quicklime. Buy lime putty from Jewsons and mix it 1:3 with
sharpish sand. I think there is a uk.d-i-y lime mortar FAQ

Anna


--
~~ Anna Kettle, Suffolk, England
|""""| ~ Plaster conservation, freehand modelling in lime
/ ^^ \ // Overmantels, pargeting etc
|____| www.kettlenet.co.uk 01359 230642

N. Thornton wrote

I was reading up on making the stuff, and I gather quicklime is whats
wanted, slaking it yourself. I have some hydrated lime here - is it
possible to put it in the oven to dry it out? Or is that nuts?

No, this is slightly wrong. The hydrated lime you buy in bags from builders
merchants has already been slaked and then dried out again. It doesn't need any
more oven treatment. You can soak it in water and make it into lime putty, but
it's a long, laborious job and unnecessary if you buy tubs of lime putty as Anna
suggests.

If you ever try slaking yourself, remember quicklime is nasty stuff. It is
highly alkaline and reacts quite violently with water, giving off heat. Think
of the rules when you mixed acid and water at school - you should always
submerge the quicklime in the water, not add the water to the lime.

Peter

(Anna Kettle) wrote in message ...
It shrinks and cracks during that time? I ask cos I have this insane
idea of trying a small bit of lime plastering one day later in the
year. I've never plastered anything.

Yes it will need a light spray and to be consolidated with a float a
couple of times. Lime plaster needs CO2 and water to set so you
mustn't let it dry out completely in the first week or so. Equally you
mustn't drown it or the air won't get into the pores


I was reading up on making the stuff, and I gather quicklime is whats
wanted, slaking it yourself. I have some hydrated lime here - is it
possible to put it in the oven to dry it out? Or is that nuts? I
ask because I know lime based dehumidifiers can be recharged by oven
heating the wet lime.

Ignore quicklime. Buy lime putty from Jewsons and mix it 1:3 with
sharpish sand. I think there is a uk.d-i-y lime mortar FAQ

Anna

Thanks for the tips. I've decided though, I'll try a little bit in the
oven and slake it, see if it works. If it does I'll do it on a bigger
scale later. I'll hopefully incorporate some fibres when I mix it up
as well.

I'm not going to travel to Jewsons, which I dont think we have here,
and purchase what I have already. Far rather do it myself, more
absorbing and less time.


Regards, NT

Thanks for the tips. I've decided though, I'll try a little bit in the
oven and slake it, see if it works. If it does I'll do it on a bigger
scale later. I'll hopefully incorporate some fibres when I mix it up
as well.

I'm not going to travel to Jewsons, which I dont think we have here,
and purchase what I have already. Far rather do it myself, more
absorbing

Certainly. And then you become a certified limey and get to go to the
Buildings Lime Forum Conference and ****up
http://www.buildinglimesforum.org.uk/

and less time.

Unlikely, though I suppose you could be emailing from Mars

Anna


--
~~ Anna Kettle, Suffolk, England
|""""| ~ Plaster conservation and lime plaster repair
/ ^^ \ // Freehand modelling in lime: overmantels, pargeting etc
|____| www.kettlenet.co.uk 01359 230642

(Anna Kettle) wrote in message ...
snip

I think there is a uk.d-i-y lime mortar FAQ

Anna

I was just about to recommend you as author Anna :=))

"N. Thornton" wrote in message
It shrinks and cracks during that time?

Unfortunately yes. A lot in summer, very little in winter. Only don't
expose it to frost or it cracks big-time.

I was reading up on making the stuff, and I gather quicklime is whats
wanted, slaking it yourself. I have some hydrated lime here - is it
possible to put it in the oven to dry it out? Or is that nuts?

Just throw a bag of hydrated lime in a clean plastic dustbin, fill with
water (use ALL the safety clothing you can get) and leave for a month,
stirring occasionally. Not quite as good as some of the best lime putties
but good enough.

In article , G&M
writes
Just throw a bag of hydrated lime in a clean plastic dustbin, fill with
water (use ALL the safety clothing you can get) and leave for a month,
stirring occasionally. Not quite as good as some of the best lime putties
but good enough.

The problem is that you don't know how long it has been hanging around
in the builders' merchants, and how much of the hydroxide has turned to
carbonate.

J.
--
John Rouse

In article , N.
Thornton writes
It shrinks and cracks during that time?

Not if you do it right in the first place. However the joy of lime
plaster is that even the less than competent can push it around for
hours and get it looking half decent.

I ask cos I have this insane
idea of trying a small bit of lime plastering one day later in the
year. I've never plastered anything.

Its a really good way to start.

I was reading up on making the stuff, and I gather quicklime is whats
wanted, slaking it yourself.

Its the cheapest way to do it, but not really recommended. Buy a tub of
lime putty from Bleaklow or somewhere similar.

I have some hydrated lime here - is it
possible to put it in the oven to dry it out?

You can dry it out, but you can't get it hot enough to turn the
carbonate to oxide.

I looked up quicklime manufacture, but that process is quite different
to just driving off moisture, and I would expect one need not use the
same kind of high temps just for drying. I did google but didnt get
what I wanted to find out.

I think lime industries have a web site, which explains the process
quite well.

J.
--
John Rouse

John Rouse wrote in message ...
In article , G&M

Well, thanks to all of you for the good information. When I find one
of those round tuits I shall definitely give this a go. I have a
feeling I might have met my match when it comes to plastering, but I
dont want to remain in that state of mind unless its really necessary



Regards, NT

In message , John Rouse
writes

Lime plastering should be cheaper, the materials are cheaper, and any
that falls to the floor can be re-used, unlike gypsum (as long as the
floor is clean), so there is less wastage. As the plaster can be worked
for longer, its easier to apply, the only downside is that it takes
longer to set.

The materials dearer (once you factor haulage in) and you cant chuck it
on like sand & cement.
Its a lot dearer in my experience. (Having done both in the course of
making a living).

--
mark

John Rouse wrote:
G&M writes
Just throw a bag of hydrated lime in a clean plastic dustbin,
fill with water (use ALL the safety clothing you can get)

Well, a dust mask and a bit of care, anyway....

and leave for a month, stirring occasionally. Not quite as
good as some of the best lime putties but good enough.

I doubt anyone would be able to tell. There's a lot of ponceing
about and mystecism with regard to lime, usually by various
bodies with vested interests in pushing their services.

The problem is that you don't know how long it has been hanging
around in the builders' merchants, and how much of the hydroxide
has turned to carbonate.

Not even by reading the date on the sack?


J.B.

"N. Thornton" wrote:
[ lime ]I was reading up on making the stuff, and I gather
quicklime is whats wanted, slaking it yourself. I have some
hydrated lime here - is it possible to put it in the oven to
dry it out?

Crikey, you must have a good oven, you need about 1000 deg. C.


I'm not going to travel to Jewsons, which I dont think we
have here

http://www.jewson.co.uk/content/locator/locator.jsp


J.B.

(Anna Kettle) wrote in message ...
Maybe I'm wrong, but can't you use Hydrated Lime to make the lime putty?
It
would work out a lot cheaper probably. I seem to remember at college
years ago
learning about slaking pits and lime putty mixers

Peter


That's what I've been using to make lime putty/mortar: hydrated
non-hydraulic lime. As I understand it in the old days limestone would be
roasted to get quicklime ( CaO) then doused with water to get slaked lime
( CaOH? ). I'm pretty sure slaked lime is the same as hydrated lime, so
you don't have to contend with dealing with quicklime, which is caustic
stuff.

You can use hydrated lime to make lime putty (put it in a tub of water
overnight to soak) but who would bother these days when a ready
prepared tub of lime putty is available ex stock from Jewsons. In the
old days ie 5 years ago, lime putty was much harder to get hold of and
hydrated lime was sometimes the only easy source.


Does it have a trade name?

All my local Jewson could come up with was Linseed Oil Putty!

"It's the only sort of putty we sell, sir."

MBQ

Does it have a trade name?

All my local Jewson could come up with was Linseed Oil Putty!

"It's the only sort of putty we sell, sir."

Looks like not every Jewsons is stocking it yet. Right next to the
warehouse desk in my local Jewson is stacked a pallette of tubs
labelled "Bleaklows Slaked Lime Putty" if I remember rightly

Tell me where you are in the country and I'll see if I can come up
with another supplier

Anna

~~ Anna Kettle, Suffolk, England
|""""| ~ Plaster conservation and lime plaster repair
/ ^^ \ // Freehand modelling in lime: overmantels, pargeting etc
|____| www.kettlenet.co.uk 01359 230642

Anna Kettle wrote:
[ supply of lime putty ]

What's the cost difference to a DIY-er of buying prepared
lime putty or using hydrated lime to make?


J.B.

(Anna Kettle) wrote in message ...
Does it have a trade name?

All my local Jewson could come up with was Linseed Oil Putty!

"It's the only sort of putty we sell, sir."

Looks like not every Jewsons is stocking it yet. Right next to the
warehouse desk in my local Jewson is stacked a pallette of tubs
labelled "Bleaklows Slaked Lime Putty" if I remember rightly

Tell me where you are in the country and I'll see if I can come up
with another supplier

Anna


This was the Aylesbury Jewson. Do you have any opinion of
www.mikewye.co.uk and their products/prices? I was thinking of
ordering their DVD and a small amount of material to practice
re-rendering a "witchert" mud & straw garden wall.

MBQ

"Jerry Built" ] wrote in message
news:P1NWGPL3CNF5MFD4FWHRCPPTEANZADAFF2CAMBPQ@zipl ip.com

Anna Kettle wrote:
[ supply of lime putty ]

What's the cost difference to a DIY-er of buying prepared
lime putty or using hydrated lime to make?

Sort your headers out or whatever it is you need to do to keep a thread
intact.

Putty is made with whiting which is a neutral filler I think although
I am not sure what. I don't believe it is lime though.




--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

Michael Mcneil wrote:
"Jerry Built" wrote.....
Anna Kettle wrote:
[ supply of lime putty ]

What's the cost difference to a DIY-er of buying prepared
lime putty or using hydrated lime to make?

Sort your headers out or whatever it is you need to do to keep
a thread intact.

I can't. This has been mentioned before. Andrew Gabriel mentioned
the problem.


Putty is made with whiting which is a neutral filler I think
although I am not sure what. I don't believe it is lime though.

Not glazing putty for windows, lime putty for lime mortar etc.
You can buy ready-made lime putty, or tip a bag of hydrated
lime into water to get the same stuff, to all intents and
purposes. I was asking about the price difference.
--


J.B.

Michael Mcneil wrote in message
lgate.org...
"Jerry Built" ] wrote in message
news:P1NWGPL3CNF5MFD4FWHRCPPTEANZADAFF2CAMBPQ@zip lip.com

Anna Kettle wrote:
[ supply of lime putty ]

What's the cost difference to a DIY-er of buying prepared
lime putty or using hydrated lime to make?

Sort your headers out or whatever it is you need to do to keep a thread
intact.

Putty is made with whiting which is a neutral filler I think although
I am not sure what. I don't believe it is lime though.

Chalk

"MBQ" wrote in message
om...
(Anna Kettle) wrote in message
...
Does it have a trade name?

All my local Jewson could come up with was Linseed Oil Putty!

"It's the only sort of putty we sell, sir."

Looks like not every Jewsons is stocking it yet. Right next to the
warehouse desk in my local Jewson is stacked a pallette of tubs
labelled "Bleaklows Slaked Lime Putty" if I remember rightly

Tell me where you are in the country and I'll see if I can come up
with another supplier

Anna


This was the Aylesbury Jewson. Do you have any opinion of
www.mikewye.co.uk and their products/prices? I was thinking of
ordering their DVD and a small amount of material to practice
re-rendering a "witchert" mud & straw garden wall.

Though I use Bleaklow myself as I am 12 miles away, I hear nothing but good
things about Mike Wye. If he is near then use him.

This was the Aylesbury Jewson. Do you have any opinion of
www.mikewye.co.uk and their products/prices? I was thinking of
ordering their DVD and a small amount of material to practice
re-rendering a "witchert" mud & straw garden wall.

I've not used Mike Wye's stuff myself but he's respected in the trade

Also in your neck of the woods
www.trad-lime.co.uk
www.oldhousestore.co.uk

Anna

~~ Anna Kettle, Suffolk, England
|""""| ~ Plaster conservation and lime plaster repair
/ ^^ \ // Freehand modelling in lime: overmantels, pargeting etc
|____| www.kettlenet.co.uk 01359 230642

(Anna Kettle) wrote in message ...
This was the Aylesbury Jewson. Do you have any opinion of
www.mikewye.co.uk and their products/prices? I was thinking of
ordering their DVD and a small amount of material to practice
re-rendering a "witchert" mud & straw garden wall.

I've not used Mike Wye's stuff myself but he's respected in the trade

Also in your neck of the woods
www.trad-lime.co.uk
www.oldhousestore.co.uk

Anna

~~ Anna Kettle, Suffolk, England
|""""| ~ Plaster conservation and lime plaster repair
/ ^^ \ // Freehand modelling in lime: overmantels, pargeting etc
|____| www.kettlenet.co.uk 01359 230642

Thanks for the links!

MBQ

"Jerry Built" ] wrote in message
news:IGN0LUCEEAEHBRKKB4JZD4MKCBEJEOALIELYHTHW@zipl ip.com

Sort your headers out or whatever it is you need to do to keep
a thread intact.

I can't. This has been mentioned before. Andrew Gabriel mentioned
the problem.

What are you using anonymous mailers for?

Message-ID: om
Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 08:42:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jerry Built ]
Author-Address: jerrybuilt AT ziplip DOT com
Reply-To: Jerry Built
Subject: lime plastering - expected costs vs gypsum
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None of my business of course. I don't really want to know. Just nosey.


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Question for Anna really, but also anyone else who knows the answer:

What is the "ready mixed" lime mortar you can get from people like Tilcon or RMC
and how does it differ chemically from lime putty mortar? I guess it's a
mixture of sand and hydrated lime, but can it be used as lime mortar in the same
way as lime putty? If not, why not? I'm confused about this as all the
suppliers' literature I've seen seems to assume it is going to be mixed with
cement on site.

Thanks
Peter

"Peter Taylor" wrote in message
...
Question for Anna really, but also anyone else who knows the answer:

What is the "ready mixed" lime mortar you can get from people like Tilcon
or RMC
and how does it differ chemically from lime putty mortar? I guess it's a
mixture of sand and hydrated lime, but can it be used as lime mortar in
the same
way as lime putty? If not, why not? I'm confused about this as all the
suppliers' literature I've seen seems to assume it is going to be mixed
with
cement on site.

It uses hydraulic lime which is similar to cement - add water and use
quickly. Mostly comes from France under St.Austier label I believe. Don't
use it myself - only a few miles from the Bleaklow site which sells the
authentic English non-hydraulic lime.

"G&M" wrote in message
...

"Peter Taylor" wrote in message
...
Question for Anna really, but also anyone else who knows the answer:

What is the "ready mixed" lime mortar you can get from people like Tilcon
or RMC
and how does it differ chemically from lime putty mortar? I guess it's a
mixture of sand and hydrated lime, but can it be used as lime mortar in
the same
way as lime putty? If not, why not? I'm confused about this as all the
suppliers' literature I've seen seems to assume it is going to be mixed
with
cement on site.

It uses hydraulic lime which is similar to cement - add water and use
quickly. Mostly comes from France under St.Austier label I believe. Don't
use it myself - only a few miles from the Bleaklow site which sells the
authentic English non-hydraulic lime.

Yes that's right, but it's not the product I meant. From people like Tilcon and
Readymix Concrete Ltd you can get bulk deliveries of wet lime/sand mortar which
can be stored on site almost indefinitely (as long as it's protected from the
weather). This is mixed with Portland cement before use for bricklaying - I
don't think it will set without the cement, but maybe I'm wrong there. This
website shows what I mean: http://www.mortar.org.uk/wm_hom01.htm

I don't quite understand the difference between this product and the lime putty
mortar you would make using the Bleaklow putty, which sets on its own without
cement.

Peter

What is the "ready mixed" lime mortar you can get from people like Tilcon or RMC
and how does it differ chemically from lime putty mortar?

all the suppliers' literature I've seen seems to assume it is going
to be mixed with cement on site.

This website shows what I mean:
http://www.mortar.org.uk/wm_hom01.htm

The mix which this company sells is probably hydrated lime and sand.
When the cement is added, there is just a normal cement set, with the
lime acting as a plasticiser for the mix

But had the cement not been added, yes the ready mix is chemically
similar to lime putty mortar - just add water -

As well as this cement ready mix, it is also possible to get two other
different sorts of REAL lime ready mixes

Lime putty and sand readymix I use all the time. Comes by the bucket.
Take the hard graft out of mixing, just add hair, fluff up and go

The other is hydraulic lime mortar in big hoppers. This generally gets
used for newbuild

Anna












I've not heard of either of these brands which make me think that they
must be hydraulic lime mortar

Just to confuse everyone, there is hydrated lime which is dried bagged
putty lime

And there is hydraulic lime which is lime putty with impurities in
notably silicon check this. Hydraulic lime always comes as a dried
powder never as a putty cos one of the effects of the silicon is to
make it set underwater.

Another effect is to make it set quicker

Another effect is to make the final plaster harder; a bit more like
cement which is a BAD THING

There are weakly hydraulic limes and strongly hydraulic limes
~~ Anna Kettle, Suffolk, England
|""""| ~ Plaster conservation and lime plaster repair
/ ^^ \ // Freehand modelling in lime: overmantels, pargeting etc
|____| www.kettlenet.co.uk 01359 230642