"Shrek" wrote in message ...
I'm having a problem with an old Servis "Secret" dishwasher (also sold
under a load of different brands - its a 4-place-setting slide-out
top-loading grey box....). For some reason it no longer directs water
through the spray arm.

The water supply and drain pump are both OK (it fills, empties and
refills a sump area at the bottom at the start of the cycle). The
spray arm isn't blocked and turns freely. Not sure if the heater
element is working or not but I'm not sure that would be relevent
anyway - don't they usually do at least one spray with cold water?

Before I start dismantling it to try and find out how it works/what is
broken does anyone have any experience with this machine or any
suggestions for likely faults. Does anyone know whether the spray arms
rely on a dedicated pump (which could be broken?) or use the same pump
as for draining (which works)? It can't be a problem with wires passing
through the door, because no wires pass through the door!

Thanks for your help

David


Is there a humming sound when the water should be spraying?

could be the main wash pump has seized, and yes they are usually different
form the outlet pump.

Thanks Ian,

Didn't notice any humming. But there is a faint hissing sound - a
little like the sound a kettle makes when it is just thinking about
coming to the boil. At this stage there is water in the sump area
(covering the heating element) but it isn't noticably hot. I'll try
going through the program again to listen for humming - one problem is
I'm not 100% sure at which 'clicks' through the cycle it normally
starts to spray.

If it is the pump, are these widely/affordably available?

David

In article , David
Micklem wrote:

"Shrek" wrote in message
...
I'm having a problem with an old Servis "Secret" dishwasher (also sold
under a load of different brands - its a 4-place-setting slide-out
top-loading grey box....). For some reason it no longer directs water
through the spray arm.

The water supply and drain pump are both OK (it fills, empties and
refills a sump area at the bottom at the start of the cycle). The
spray arm isn't blocked and turns freely. Not sure if the heater
element is working or not but I'm not sure that would be relevent
anyway - don't they usually do at least one spray with cold water?

Before I start dismantling it to try and find out how it works/what is
broken does anyone have any experience with this machine or any
suggestions for likely faults. Does anyone know whether the spray arms
rely on a dedicated pump (which could be broken?) or use the same pump
as for draining (which works)? It can't be a problem with wires passing
through the door, because no wires pass through the door!

Thanks for your help

David


Is there a humming sound when the water should be spraying?

could be the main wash pump has seized, and yes they are usually different
form the outlet pump.

Thanks Ian,

Didn't notice any humming. But there is a faint hissing sound - a
little like the sound a kettle makes when it is just thinking about
coming to the boil. At this stage there is water in the sump area
(covering the heating element) but it isn't noticably hot. I'll try
going through the program again to listen for humming - one problem is
I'm not 100% sure at which 'clicks' through the cycle it normally
starts to spray.

If it is the pump, are these widely/affordably available?

David

To follow up on this, there _is_ a very faint hum at the same time.
I'll try and get at the pump and see if it is OK.

David

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To follow up on this, there _is_ a very faint hum at the same time.
I'll try and get at the pump and see if it is OK.


The faint hum is indicative of a motor problem, probably the main pump. the
kettle sound is probably the water heating up, you wouldn't notice this
normally as the water is spraying around the cabinet making more noise.

the problem isn't so much cost, it is getting hold of one and disassembling
the machine to replace it.

--
Ian Tilley
Ex-Kirklees Domestic Engineers
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/appliance-repair
it's free

To follow up on this, there _is_ a very faint hum at the same time.
I'll try and get at the pump and see if it is OK.


The faint hum is indicative of a motor problem, probably the main
pump. the
kettle sound is probably the water heating up, you wouldn't notice
this
normally as the water is spraying around the cabinet making more
noise.

the problem isn't so much cost, it is getting hold of one and
disassembling
the machine to replace it.


Your diagnosis was spot on - the rotor (stator? bit that should go
round, anyway) on the main pump motor doesn't turn easily/at all. It
was suprisingly easy to get at - the whole bottom of the machine could
be taken off by removing a handful of screws. I'm not so sure how the
motor itself is attached to the main body of the machine though.

I assume that once siezed the motor isn't fixable so I'll need to
replace it? Is it normal to replace the whole motor/pump assembly or
should I be trying to separate the pump section from the motor (which
looks like it may be possible with a few screws)? I guess that the
motor is more likely to be available off the shelf than the
particular plastic moulding shape of the pump section.

Any suggestions for where I might find a suitable motor (or pump/motor
assembly)?

Thanks for your help with this (and sorry for so many questions!)

David

Your diagnosis was spot on - the rotor (stator? bit that should go
round, anyway) on the main pump motor doesn't turn easily/at all. It
was suprisingly easy to get at - the whole bottom of the machine could
be taken off by removing a handful of screws. I'm not so sure how the
motor itself is attached to the main body of the machine though.

I assume that once siezed the motor isn't fixable so I'll need to
replace it? Is it normal to replace the whole motor/pump assembly or
should I be trying to separate the pump section from the motor (which
looks like it may be possible with a few screws)? I guess that the
motor is more likely to be available off the shelf than the
particular plastic moulding shape of the pump section.


You could try and lubricate the bearings, but TBH it will soon go again,
probably because there is a slight leak in the seal. You could usually see
an indication of this with a little trail of salt residue from the seal to
the bottom of the rotor.

Any suggestions for where I might find a suitable motor (or pump/motor
assembly)?


www.transpart.co.uk
http://www.ezee-fix.co.uk/

you will have to contact them to order it as it isn't a common part



Thanks for your help with this (and sorry for so many questions!)


NP.

--
Ian Tilley
Ex-Kirklees Domestic Engineers
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/appliance-repair
it's free

In article ,
"Shrek" writes:
Your diagnosis was spot on - the rotor (stator? bit that should go
round, anyway) on the main pump motor doesn't turn easily/at all. It
was suprisingly easy to get at - the whole bottom of the machine could
be taken off by removing a handful of screws. I'm not so sure how the
motor itself is attached to the main body of the machine though.

I assume that once siezed the motor isn't fixable so I'll need to
replace it? Is it normal to replace the whole motor/pump assembly or
should I be trying to separate the pump section from the motor (which
looks like it may be possible with a few screws)? I guess that the
motor is more likely to be available off the shelf than the
particular plastic moulding shape of the pump section.


You could try and lubricate the bearings, but TBH it will soon go again,
probably because there is a slight leak in the seal. You could usually see
an indication of this with a little trail of salt residue from the seal to
the bottom of the rotor.

I've had exactly this with a Creda in-cupboard dishwasher.
I bought a new motor/pump (single unit) and it did it again
within a few months. You can just about get to the water
impeller through the hole under the filter, if you push
dinner fork prongs in, which enables you to turn it just
enough to free it, and then it runs the cycle OK. Come to
think of it, it hasn't stuck for many months now, so the
new pump seems to have recovered.

The old one failed because the water seal started leaking
and water ran along the driveshaft into the motor's ball
bearing, which has gone rusty.

--
Andrew Gabriel

In article , Andrew Gabriel
wrote:

In article ,
"Shrek" writes:
Your diagnosis was spot on - the rotor (stator? bit that should go
round, anyway) on the main pump motor doesn't turn easily/at all. It
was suprisingly easy to get at - the whole bottom of the machine could
be taken off by removing a handful of screws. I'm not so sure how the
motor itself is attached to the main body of the machine though.

I assume that once siezed the motor isn't fixable so I'll need to
replace it? Is it normal to replace the whole motor/pump assembly or
should I be trying to separate the pump section from the motor (which
looks like it may be possible with a few screws)? I guess that the
motor is more likely to be available off the shelf than the
particular plastic moulding shape of the pump section.


You could try and lubricate the bearings, but TBH it will soon go again,
probably because there is a slight leak in the seal. You could usually see
an indication of this with a little trail of salt residue from the seal to
the bottom of the rotor.

I've had exactly this with a Creda in-cupboard dishwasher.
I bought a new motor/pump (single unit) and it did it again
within a few months. You can just about get to the water
impeller through the hole under the filter, if you push
dinner fork prongs in, which enables you to turn it just
enough to free it, and then it runs the cycle OK. Come to
think of it, it hasn't stuck for many months now, so the
new pump seems to have recovered.

The old one failed because the water seal started leaking
and water ran along the driveshaft into the motor's ball
bearing, which has gone rusty.

Thanks Andrew. I hope the replacement (assuming I can get one) won't
have the same problem yours had. I know that the Servis machine I have
is sold badged by others (incl Elica and I think Creda). Does yours
look like a grey plastic tank with a lid (and very simple controls) on
the top? Just trying to work out if its the same thing... then at least
I'd know whether the fork trick has any chance!

Having managed to remove the pump completely, and since I have to wait
until tomorrow to ring around possible suppliers for a replacement, I
decided to at least test it. The rotor is NOT completely stuck, but
there is a resistance to turning. When I wired it up, the motor does
turn but rather slowly (maybe 30-60rpm). I assume its supposed to be
much faster than this but I had also assumed that it would either stall
completely or spin at its normal speed so I'm not really sure.
I can't see any clear evidence of a leak in the water seal either.

David

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David Micklem wrote:
In article , Andrew Gabriel
wrote:

In article ,
"Shrek" writes:
Your diagnosis was spot on - the rotor (stator? bit that should go
round, anyway) on the main pump motor doesn't turn easily/at all.
It was suprisingly easy to get at - the whole bottom of the
machine could be taken off by removing a handful of screws. I'm
not so sure how the motor itself is attached to the main body of
the machine though.
When I replaced the pump assembly in my Ariston a 4 years ago the part was
£85.
To be quite honest the machine really wasn't worth it.

In article ,
David Micklem writes:

Thanks Andrew. I hope the replacement (assuming I can get one) won't
have the same problem yours had. I know that the Servis machine I have
is sold badged by others (incl Elica and I think Creda). Does yours
look like a grey plastic tank with a lid (and very simple controls) on
the top? Just trying to work out if its the same thing... then at least

No -- That sounds like a completely different dishwasher I know -- a
homark which was sold by B&Q a few years ago, and my father also
bought one in France somewhere at the same time. The whole diswasher
slides in and out of the cupboard on rails. You can either leave the
cupboard door as it was, or remove the door from the kitchen unit and
fix it to the front of the dishwasher so that it pulls the dishwasher
out for loading/unloading when you go to open the cupboard.

The creda looks more like a conventional dishwasher, but has no outer
casing. It is designed to fit very snugly inside a standard kitchen unit
rather than in place of a standard kitchen unit, but has a regular door
without provision for fitting a matching kitchen unit door. Hotpoint sold
the same dishwasher too. I can't check the model as it's in a different
house, but something like DXX500 or DXX501 rings a vague bell ('X' =
can't remember).

I'd know whether the fork trick has any chance!

I don't know in that one.

Having managed to remove the pump completely, and since I have to wait
until tomorrow to ring around possible suppliers for a replacement, I
decided to at least test it. The rotor is NOT completely stuck, but
there is a resistance to turning. When I wired it up, the motor does
turn but rather slowly (maybe 30-60rpm). I assume its supposed to be
much faster than this but I had also assumed that it would either stall
completely or spin at its normal speed so I'm not really sure.

I wonder if it's also damaged the motor? If it's an induction motor,
it will normally get up to speed if it can start, as it has low torque
when stalled.

I can't see any clear evidence of a leak in the water seal either.

--
Andrew Gabriel

In article , Andrew Gabriel
wrote:


No -- That sounds like a completely different dishwasher I know -- a
homark which was sold by B&Q a few years ago, and my father also
bought one in France somewhere at the same time. The whole diswasher
slides in and out of the cupboard on rails. You can either leave the
cupboard door as it was, or remove the door from the kitchen unit and
fix it to the front of the dishwasher so that it pulls the dishwasher
out for loading/unloading when you go to open the cupboard.

Thats the one.


Having managed to remove the pump completely, and since I have to wait
until tomorrow to ring around possible suppliers for a replacement, I
decided to at least test it. The rotor is NOT completely stuck, but
there is a resistance to turning. When I wired it up, the motor does
turn but rather slowly (maybe 30-60rpm). I assume its supposed to be
much faster than this but I had also assumed that it would either stall
completely or spin at its normal speed so I'm not really sure.

I wonder if it's also damaged the motor? If it's an induction motor,
it will normally get up to speed if it can start, as it has low torque
when stalled.

It is an induction motor (at least it has a large capacitor attached).
Its all rather academic now anyway - I have found a source for a
replacement pump, but its around 75 quid. At that price I'll be better
off looking for a second hand slimline dishwasher (which I have just
enough space for).

Cheers,

David

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