OK, here's the story:

We have a house that is stone built on three walls, and brick built on
the rear wall (solid 9" jobbie, south facing).

The previous owners saw fit to built the most hideous extension known
to mankind, and then render it along with the brick rear wall.

This house is 1930s ish and built with lime mortar. Clearly the guys
that rendered the extension and rear wall didn't have the word "lime"
in their dictionary as it's now pretty much all blown and cracked.

Now, with any other house I would expect the bricks under the blown
render to be shot as well. However, the bricks used in this wall are
all nearly as hard as engineering bricks. They're that hard that
hammer drills won't touch them and SDS is the only way.

Now, due to exception levels of no-money-at-all for the forseeable
future, there is no way we can afford to have the wall re-rendered.

I've been thinking about either:

a) Drilling it all over and injecting gripfil or latex self-levelling
compound etc (whatever will stick the render back onto the wall)

b) Removing all the old render myself and painting the wall directly.

Currently b) is my preferred option because I believe the bricks will
be OK under the blown render.

Would this be a big mistake?

Please advise.

"Tony Jackson" wrote in message
m...
OK, here's the story:

We have a house that is stone built on three walls, and brick built on
the rear wall (solid 9" jobbie, south facing).

The previous owners saw fit to built the most hideous extension known
to mankind, and then render it along with the brick rear wall.

This house is 1930s ish and built with lime mortar. Clearly the guys
that rendered the extension and rear wall didn't have the word "lime"
in their dictionary as it's now pretty much all blown and cracked.

Now, with any other house I would expect the bricks under the blown
render to be shot as well. However, the bricks used in this wall are
all nearly as hard as engineering bricks. They're that hard that
hammer drills won't touch them and SDS is the only way.

Now, due to exception levels of no-money-at-all for the forseeable
future, there is no way we can afford to have the wall re-rendered.

I've been thinking about either:

a) Drilling it all over and injecting gripfil or latex self-levelling
compound etc (whatever will stick the render back onto the wall)

b) Removing all the old render myself and painting the wall directly.

Currently b) is my preferred option because I believe the bricks will
be OK under the blown render.

Would this be a big mistake?

Yes. Paint it with limewash temporarily but render it with a lime render
gradually as time permits.

(Tony Jackson) wrote in message om...

a) Drilling it all over and injecting gripfil or latex self-levelling
compound etc (whatever will stick the render back onto the wall)

Any cracks at all in render will let water in but not let it evaporate
out, so this is not an option.


b) Removing all the old render myself and painting the wall directly.

Currently b) is my preferred option because I believe the bricks will
be OK under the blown render.

Would this be a big mistake?

Please advise.

b should be fine, if the bricks are mostly in one piece, and you make
sure the pointings ok. But better would be let the render fall off and
dont paint the bricks. If theres render on them, as there will be,
knock the lumps off, gently enough to not break any bricks, wire brush
whats left down to 1mm or so, (rotary brush in angle grinder) then use
brick acid to remove what remains. Yes its extra work, but it will
look miles better, perform better damp-wise, need far less maintenance
than paint, and since its only cosmetic work there's no rush to do it.

In fact, if the wall underneath is ok, theres no rush to do anything
at all, just a matter of cosmetics.

BTW your other option is to remove loose render and rernder in lime,
but I wouldnt myself, unless I was desperate for time.

If OTOH the wall underneath is structurally precarious, eg the bricks
are badly disintegrated, it may be necessary to rerender.


NT

(N. Thornton) wrote in message . com...
(Tony Jackson) wrote in message om...

b should be fine, if the bricks are mostly in one piece, and you make
sure the pointings ok. But better would be let the render fall off and
dont paint the bricks. If theres render on them, as there will be,
knock the lumps off, gently enough to not break any bricks, wire brush
whats left down to 1mm or so, (rotary brush in angle grinder) then use
brick acid to remove what remains. Yes its extra work, but it will
look miles better, perform better damp-wise, need far less maintenance
than paint, and since its only cosmetic work there's no rush to do it.

In fact, if the wall underneath is ok, theres no rush to do anything
at all, just a matter of cosmetics.

BTW your other option is to remove loose render and rernder in lime,
but I wouldnt myself, unless I was desperate for time.

If OTOH the wall underneath is structurally precarious, eg the bricks
are badly disintegrated, it may be necessary to rerender.

I think I will do as you suggest - let most of the render fall off and
then remove the rest, clean the bricks and re-point (assuming the
bricks are in good condition - but they are very hard in that wall).
At the moment we have damp penetration due to the blown render
trapping water against the wall. I assume with bare brick and proper
pointing this will cease?

Thanks for your advice, anyway.

Tony

(Tony Jackson) wrote in message . com...
(N. Thornton) wrote in message . com...

b should be fine, if the bricks are mostly in one piece, and you make
sure the pointings ok. But better would be let the render fall off and
dont paint the bricks. If theres render on them, as there will be,
knock the lumps off, gently enough to not break any bricks, wire brush
whats left down to 1mm or so, (rotary brush in angle grinder) then use
brick acid to remove what remains. Yes its extra work, but it will
look miles better, perform better damp-wise, need far less maintenance
than paint, and since its only cosmetic work there's no rush to do it.

In fact, if the wall underneath is ok, theres no rush to do anything
at all, just a matter of cosmetics.

BTW your other option is to remove loose render and rernder in lime,
but I wouldnt myself, unless I was desperate for time.

If OTOH the wall underneath is structurally precarious, eg the bricks
are badly disintegrated, it may be necessary to rerender.

I think I will do as you suggest - let most of the render fall off and
then remove the rest, clean the bricks and re-point (assuming the
bricks are in good condition - but they are very hard in that wall).
At the moment we have damp penetration due to the blown render
trapping water against the wall. I assume with bare brick and proper
pointing this will cease?

In nearly all cases, yes. If its a weak 4" thick wall though, I would
be less sure. Even if the bricks are not in perfect condition, if
there arent too many broken they can generally be repaired in situ by
drilling a few small holes into the crack and injecting resin. In some
cases its also an option to cut them in half in situ, and mortar them
just like 2 smaller bricks.

The only caution is that if there are substantial structural problems
with the wall, such as gross mortar loss, it might be wise to repoint
in patches, only removing small areas of render at a time before
pointing them.

Theoretically, and more than unlikely, if it were a 2.5" brick wall
supporting 3 stories, it might be in real need of a thick coat of
render. I've never seen such a thing in the real world though, or even
heard of it.


NT


Thanks for your advice, anyway.

Tony

N. Thornton wrote:
(Tony Jackson) wrote in message
. com...
(N. Thornton) wrote in message
. com...

At the moment we have damp penetration due to the blown render
trapping water against the wall. I assume with bare brick and
proper
pointing this will cease?

In nearly all cases, yes. If its a weak 4" thick wall though, I would
be less sure. Even if the bricks are not in perfect condition, if
there arent too many broken they can generally be repaired in situ by
drilling a few small holes into the crack and injecting resin. In
some
cases its also an option to cut them in half in situ, and mortar them
just like 2 smaller bricks.

Pleased to hear that.

Thankfully the wall in question is 9" (not including plaster/render).
From removing some bricks that run lengthways across the width of the
wall (to run through waste pipe), the mortar appears to be in good
condition too.

Will continuing damp in the wall (while the render stays up) make the
lime mortar deteriorate?

Will continuing damp in the wall (while the render stays up) make the
lime mortar deteriorate?

yes, it makes everything deteriorate. Freezing is what does the most
damage. But its not as if a week would make a significant difference
one way or another.

One could go round with a hammer and tap the loose lumps off. The wall
will take quite a while to dry out.


NT

Will continuing damp in the wall (while the render stays up) make the
lime mortar deteriorate?

yes, it makes everything deteriorate. Freezing is what does the most
damage. But its not as if a week would make a significant difference
one way or another.

One could go round with a hammer and tap the loose lumps off. The wall
will take quite a while to dry out. An SDS would work well too, but if
using one dont go too mad, dont want to break up the wall behind the
render


NT

Will continuing damp in the wall (while the render stays up) make the
lime mortar deteriorate?

yes, it makes everything deteriorate. Freezing is what does the most
damage. But its not as if a week would make a significant difference
one way or another.

One could go round with a hammer and tap the loose lumps off. The wall
will take quite a while to dry out. An SDS would work well too, but if
using one dont go too mad, dont want to break up the wall behind the
render


NT