I know that plumbers bend the stuff all the time, but I hate plumbing, so
I've never tried! Possible project coming up on behalf of designer wife, who
fancies a low garden fence made of timber with copper pipe inserts.
I had an idea that it might look good if the pipe lengths were bent into
inverted U shapes, but I don't know how easy it is to bend the copper pipe.
How tight a bend might be possible .. is it possible to achieve a U shape?
Also, what would be the best way to ensure that I could get the SAME U shape
each time (ie not all different sizes) ... could I make up some kind of a
timber form to bend around?
Or am I just deluding myself and should I attempt to persuade all concerned
to go for a timber picket fence?!


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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"Malcolm Hackett" wrote in message
...
I know that plumbers bend the stuff all the time, but I hate plumbing, so
I've never tried! Possible project coming up on behalf of designer wife,
who
fancies a low garden fence made of timber with copper pipe inserts.
I had an idea that it might look good if the pipe lengths were bent into
inverted U shapes, but I don't know how easy it is to bend the copper
pipe.
How tight a bend might be possible .. is it possible to achieve a U shape?
Also, what would be the best way to ensure that I could get the SAME U
shape
each time (ie not all different sizes) ... could I make up some kind of a
timber form to bend around?
Or am I just deluding myself and should I attempt to persuade all
concerned
to go for a timber picket fence?!

You should be able to achieve at least a squarish 'U' with a pipe bender -
careful measurement and some trial runs should achieve reasonable
consistency.

Can't remember the minimum internal diameter of a bend but the pipe bender
prevents you from doing too many daft pipe-collapsing things.

It is probably worth borrowing a pipe bender (if you can) for a trial run to
see if you can form the shape you want.
You can hire them, but AFAIR they are £20-30 a weekend at least.
Decentish ones are £50-£60 or more to buy.

One problem with pipe benders is that if you start bending complex shapes in
the same plane then the bent pipe can get in the way of the arms of the
bender.

HTH
Dave R

Malcolm Hackett wrote:

I know that plumbers bend the stuff all the time, but I hate plumbing, so
I've never tried! Possible project coming up on behalf of designer wife, who
fancies a low garden fence made of timber with copper pipe inserts.
I had an idea that it might look good if the pipe lengths were bent into
inverted U shapes, but I don't know how easy it is to bend the copper pipe.
How tight a bend might be possible .. is it possible to achieve a U shape?
Also, what would be the best way to ensure that I could get the SAME U shape
each time (ie not all different sizes) ... could I make up some kind of a
timber form to bend around?
Or am I just deluding myself and should I attempt to persuade all concerned
to go for a timber picket fence?!


Depends on the size of the pipe. If 8/10mm microbore, then hand bending
is easy. If 15mm+, then you can hand bend, but it's not fun. Get
(buy/hire) a pipe bender + set of formers for the project.

As for radius of curve, I'm sure there are specs for this, but I'd say
for 15mm no tighter than 2" radius.

--
Grunff

"Malcolm Hackett" wrote in message
...
I know that plumbers bend the stuff all the time, but I hate plumbing, so
I've never tried! Possible project coming up on behalf of designer wife,
who
fancies a low garden fence made of timber with copper pipe inserts.
I had an idea that it might look good if the pipe lengths were bent into
inverted U shapes, but I don't know how easy it is to bend the copper
pipe.
How tight a bend might be possible .. is it possible to achieve a U shape?
Also, what would be the best way to ensure that I could get the SAME U
shape
each time (ie not all different sizes) ... could I make up some kind of a
timber form to bend around?
Or am I just deluding myself and should I attempt to persuade all
concerned
to go for a timber picket fence?!


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.634 / Virus Database: 406 - Release Date: 18/03/04



Pipe bender like this will do everything you want.

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...98354&id=18255

"Malcolm Hackett" wrote in message
...
I know that plumbers bend the stuff all the time, but I hate plumbing, so
I've never tried! Possible project coming up on behalf of designer wife,
who
fancies a low garden fence made of timber with copper pipe inserts.
I had an idea that it might look good if the pipe lengths were bent into
inverted U shapes, but I don't know how easy it is to bend the copper
pipe.
How tight a bend might be possible .. is it possible to achieve a U shape?
Also, what would be the best way to ensure that I could get the SAME U
shape
each time (ie not all different sizes) ... could I make up some kind of a
timber form to bend around?
Or am I just deluding myself and should I attempt to persuade all
concerned
to go for a timber picket fence?!


=========================
Buy a cheap internal spring bender. They're available in 15mm and 22mm. The
15mm should be best for your purpose because 15mm bends quite easily. 22mm
can be hard work. If you're going to be using long lengths of tube buy a
roll of strong fencing wire. Attach a length of wire to the end of the
spring (it has an 'eye' in one end) so that you can push the spring to any
required position in the length of tube. Using a 'former' made of wood is
quite OK but don't try to get U-bends of less than about 6" (150mm) wide.

Screwfix don't appear to stock the 15mm spring (22mm only) but they're
readily available from Wickes etc.

Cic.

Buy a cheap internal spring bender. They're available in 15mm and 22mm.
The
15mm should be best for your purpose because 15mm bends quite easily. 22mm
can be hard work. If you're going to be using long lengths of tube buy a
roll of strong fencing wire. Attach a length of wire to the end of the
spring (it has an 'eye' in one end) so that you can push the spring to any
required position in the length of tube. Using a 'former' made of wood is
quite OK but don't try to get U-bends of less than about 6" (150mm) wide.

I also find it easier if you 'over' bend slightly and then bend back to the
correct radius. Seems to make getting out the spring easier (esp. on small
radius bends).

Colin

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Malcolm Hackett wrote:

I know that plumbers bend the stuff all the time, but I hate
plumbing, so I've never tried! Possible project coming up on behalf
of designer wife, who fancies a low garden fence made of timber with
copper pipe inserts.
I had an idea that it might look good if the pipe lengths were bent
into inverted U shapes, but I don't know how easy it is to bend the
copper pipe. How tight a bend might be possible .. is it possible to
achieve a U shape? Also, what would be the best way to ensure that I
could get the SAME U shape each time (ie not all different sizes) ...
could I make up some kind of a timber form to bend around?
Or am I just deluding myself and should I attempt to persuade all
concerned to go for a timber picket fence?!


As others have suggested, you can use a pipe bender - like the Screwfix
model cited - or an internal bending spring used in conjunction with a
home-made wooden former.

A lot depends on what size of U you want. The pipe bender is far easier to
use, but will only really produce a decent looking U if you do one
continuous bend, at a radius determined by the size of its pulley.

If you use a spring, you can define your own radius by making a suitable
former. But be prepared to waste quite a lot of pipe because you'll need a
straight piece either side of the U in order to get some leverage. As
someone else said, over-bend it slightly and then unbend it back to the
required position in order to make it easier to get the spring out -
particularly if the spring goes right inside the pipe without having an end
to catch hold of.
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is Black Hole!

In article ,
Cicero wrote:
Buy a cheap internal spring bender. They're available in 15mm and 22mm.
The 15mm should be best for your purpose because 15mm bends quite easily.

If you try bending shed bought 15mm into a tight 'U' with a spring, it
will crinkle at best or even split. You'd need to anneal it first, which
would be a right bore if you're doing several. A proper pipe bender will
give far superior results - and uniform as well.

--
*Always borrow money from pessimists - they don't expect it back *

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

On Sun, 4 Apr 2004 20:13:01 +0100, "Set Square"
wrote:

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Malcolm Hackett wrote:

I know that plumbers bend the stuff all the time, but I hate
plumbing, so I've never tried! Possible project coming up on behalf
of designer wife, who fancies a low garden fence made of timber with
copper pipe inserts.
I had an idea that it might look good if the pipe lengths were bent
into inverted U shapes, but I don't know how easy it is to bend the
copper pipe. How tight a bend might be possible .. is it possible to
achieve a U shape? Also, what would be the best way to ensure that I
could get the SAME U shape each time (ie not all different sizes) ...
could I make up some kind of a timber form to bend around?
Or am I just deluding myself and should I attempt to persuade all
concerned to go for a timber picket fence?!


As others have suggested, you can use a pipe bender - like the Screwfix
model cited - or an internal bending spring used in conjunction with a
home-made wooden former.

A lot depends on what size of U you want. The pipe bender is far easier to
use, but will only really produce a decent looking U if you do one
continuous bend, at a radius determined by the size of its pulley.

If you use a spring, you can define your own radius by making a suitable
former. But be prepared to waste quite a lot of pipe because you'll need a
straight piece either side of the U in order to get some leverage. As
someone else said, over-bend it slightly and then unbend it back to the
required position in order to make it easier to get the spring out -
particularly if the spring goes right inside the pipe without having an end
to catch hold of.
Dies your wife expect the copper inserts to look the colour of copper
pipes in the house, or the green colour of corroded copper?

CPC have a slightly cheaper bender he-

http://custom1.farnell.com/cpc/produ...ct%5Fid=274694
http://tinyurl.com/3d3ux


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Malcolm Hackett pretended :
I know that plumbers bend the stuff all the time, but I hate plumbing, so
I've never tried! Possible project coming up on behalf of designer wife, who
fancies a low garden fence made of timber with copper pipe inserts.
I had an idea that it might look good if the pipe lengths were bent into
inverted U shapes, but I don't know how easy it is to bend the copper pipe.
How tight a bend might be possible .. is it possible to achieve a U shape?
Also, what would be the best way to ensure that I could get the SAME U shape
each time (ie not all different sizes) ... could I make up some kind of a
timber form to bend around?
Or am I just deluding myself and should I attempt to persuade all concerned
to go for a timber picket fence?!

With the right equipment, it is very easy to bend. I seem to remember
the pipe benders can do almost a 180 deg bend, of around 5 or 6 inches
diameter if it is a rounded base to the U that you are seeking.

For much less cost, you can get a bending spring which fits inside the
pipe, which stops the walls collapsing. One of these, combined with
some sort of home made wooden former screwed down to a bench, might
work. I suggest the spring is greased and some strong rope be tied to
it, to ensure it can be pulled out. Wear heavy gloves, it hurts when
the spring suddenly releases.

Instead of the spring, if you have a big enough freezer, you could fill
the pipe with water and freeze it before attempting to bend it using
the above DIY former.

--


--

Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.org

On Sun, 4 Apr 2004 17:51:17 +0100, "Malcolm Hackett"
wrote:

I know that plumbers bend the stuff all the time, but I hate plumbing, so
I've never tried! Possible project coming up on behalf of designer wife, who
fancies a low garden fence made of timber with copper pipe inserts.
I had an idea that it might look good if the pipe lengths were bent into
inverted U shapes, but I don't know how easy it is to bend the copper pipe.
How tight a bend might be possible .. is it possible to achieve a U shape?

You've had all the answers on this thread already so I won't bore you
with them again.

If she is into modern art you could do the whole thing with
compression fittings to make a unique fence. Only problem would be if
the local yobs have a King Dick spanner handy.....

PoP

---
If you need to contact me please submit your comments
via the web form at http://www.anyoldtripe.co.uk. I'll
probably still ignore you but at least I'll get the
message.....

On Mon, 05 Apr 2004 01:39:04 +0100, Harry Bloomfield
wrote:

Malcolm Hackett pretended :
I know that plumbers bend the stuff all the time, but I hate plumbing, so
I've never tried! Possible project coming up on behalf of designer wife, who
fancies a low garden fence made of timber with copper pipe inserts.
I had an idea that it might look good if the pipe lengths were bent into
inverted U shapes, but I don't know how easy it is to bend the copper pipe.
How tight a bend might be possible .. is it possible to achieve a U shape?
Also, what would be the best way to ensure that I could get the SAME U shape
each time (ie not all different sizes) ... could I make up some kind of a
timber form to bend around?
Or am I just deluding myself and should I attempt to persuade all concerned
to go for a timber picket fence?!

Malcolm,

I think this should make a most unusual fence. Can anyone in the
group tell us if there is anything that can be done to age copper
quicky to get the green patina?

Peter

Subject: How bendy is copper pipe?
From: PoP
Date: 05/04/04 06:43 GMT Daylight Time
Message-id:

On Sun, 4 Apr 2004 17:51:17 +0100, "Malcolm Hackett"
wrote:

I know that plumbers bend the stuff all the time, but I hate plumbing, so
I've never tried! Possible project coming up on behalf of designer wife, who
fancies a low garden fence made of timber with copper pipe inserts.
I had an idea that it might look good if the pipe lengths were bent into
inverted U shapes, but I don't know how easy it is to bend the copper pipe.
How tight a bend might be possible .. is it possible to achieve a U shape?

You've had all the answers on this thread already so I won't bore you
with them again.

If she is into modern art you could do the whole thing with
compression fittings to make a unique fence. Only problem would be if
the local yobs have a King Dick spanner handy.....

Round our way the pikeys would probably think it worth hacksawing the copper
loops off in the dead of night to earn some beer money. I got rid of my old hot
water tank with 20 lbs of scale in it and a big hole where I'd chiselled the
immersion heater out by the simple expedient of putting it outside the front
door over the weekend. Saved taking it to the tip and getting rusty water in
the back of the car anyway.


Dave Baker - Puma Race Engines (www.pumaracing.co.uk)
I'm not at all sure why women like men. We're argumentative, childish,
unsociable and extremely unappealing naked. I'm quite grateful they do though.

Peter wrote:

I think this should make a most unusual fence. Can anyone in the
group tell us if there is anything that can be done to age copper
quicky to get the green patina?

Wipe it down with flux paste (preferably the type that can be washed off
- Fry Metals "powerflow" would do). That will leave it very bright and
shiny and "chemically" clean. It will then corrode very rapidly!


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article ,
PoP writes:
You've had all the answers on this thread already so I won't bore you
with them again.

If she is into modern art you could do the whole thing with
compression fittings to make a unique fence. Only problem would be if
the local yobs have a King Dick spanner handy.....

Copper isn't very strong. It will all bend horribly the first
time someone leans on it. You could try filling it with a
sand/cement slurry.

--
Andrew Gabriel

On 5 Apr 2004 09:44:01 GMT, (Andrew
Gabriel) wrote:

Copper isn't very strong. It will all bend horribly the first
time someone leans on it. You could try filling it with a
sand/cement slurry.

A better way might be to connect it up to 240v. That way they won't
decide to lean on it for long

PoP

---
If you need to contact me please submit your comments
via the web form at http://www.anyoldtripe.co.uk. I'll
probably still ignore you but at least I'll get the
message.....

On Mon, 05 Apr 2004 07:01:50 +0100, Peter wrote:

I think this should make a most unusual fence. Can anyone in the
group tell us if there is anything that can be done to age copper
quicky to get the green patina?

http://www.secure.sciencecompany.com...ina.cfm?SID=1&
http://www.diynet.com/diy/ww_chairs_...276538,00.html
http://experts.about.com/q/2415/975324.htm


--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

"Brian S Gray" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 4 Apr 2004 20:13:01 +0100, "Set Square"
wrote:

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Malcolm Hackett wrote:

I know that plumbers bend the stuff all the time, but I hate
plumbing, so I've never tried! Possible project coming up on behalf
of designer wife, who fancies a low garden fence made of timber with
copper pipe inserts.
I had an idea that it might look good if the pipe lengths were bent
into inverted U shapes, but I don't know how easy it is to bend the
copper pipe. How tight a bend might be possible .. is it possible to
achieve a U shape? Also, what would be the best way to ensure that I
could get the SAME U shape each time (ie not all different sizes) ...
could I make up some kind of a timber form to bend around?
Or am I just deluding myself and should I attempt to persuade all
concerned to go for a timber picket fence?!


As others have suggested, you can use a pipe bender - like the Screwfix
model cited - or an internal bending spring used in conjunction with a
home-made wooden former.

A lot depends on what size of U you want. The pipe bender is far easier
to
use, but will only really produce a decent looking U if you do one
continuous bend, at a radius determined by the size of its pulley.

If you use a spring, you can define your own radius by making a suitable
former. But be prepared to waste quite a lot of pipe because you'll need
a
straight piece either side of the U in order to get some leverage. As
someone else said, over-bend it slightly and then unbend it back to the
required position in order to make it easier to get the spring out -
particularly if the spring goes right inside the pipe without having an
end
to catch hold of.
Dies your wife expect the copper inserts to look the colour of copper
pipes in the house, or the green colour of corroded copper?

I think she will expect it to corrode and develop a patina over time ... but
I'd better check(!) Why ask?


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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Version: 6.0.634 / Virus Database: 406 - Release Date: 18/03/04

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
PoP writes:
You've had all the answers on this thread already so I won't bore you
with them again.

If she is into modern art you could do the whole thing with
compression fittings to make a unique fence. Only problem would be if
the local yobs have a King Dick spanner handy.....

Copper isn't very strong. It will all bend horribly the first
time someone leans on it. You could try filling it with a
sand/cement slurry.

--
Andrew Gabriel

I'm only thinking of a low fence (up to shin height) - its to mark out the
edge of the garden (and prevent people from cutting across the corner)
rather than to provide a convenient leaning point ... though now you come to
mention it, leaning is one of my favourite pastimes!

I am thinking of using timber to provide the structural strength (not that
it should need much) via horizontal bars, with the copper running vertically
through it to provide interest.





---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.634 / Virus Database: 406 - Release Date: 18/03/04

In article ,
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
Copper isn't very strong. It will all bend horribly the first
time someone leans on it.

Depends on what stresses it's subjected to. I needed to suspend a TV
monitor from the ceiling, and although wall mounting kits are readily
available and cheap, ceiling mounting ones aren't, and are desperately
expensive from pro suppliers - almost as much as the monitor.
I made one out of 15mm tube, using end feed fittings where needed, and
not only does it look very good, but it's well up to taking several times
the weight. Total cost under 20 quid.

--
*My dog can lick anyone

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

Dave Plowman wrote:
In article ,
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
Copper isn't very strong. It will all bend horribly the first
time someone leans on it.

Depends on what stresses it's subjected to. I needed to suspend a TV
monitor from the ceiling, and although wall mounting kits are readily
available and cheap, ceiling mounting ones aren't, and are desperately
expensive from pro suppliers - almost as much as the monitor.
I made one out of 15mm tube, using end feed fittings where needed,
and not only does it look very good, but it's well up to taking
several times the weight. Total cost under 20 quid.

CPC do a range where the wall mount and ceiling mount units are pretty much
the same price, 50ish quid for up to a 33" screen.

--
James...
www.jameshart.co.uk

On Mon, 5 Apr 2004 19:10:08 +0100, "Malcolm Hackett"
wrote:


"Brian S Gray" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 4 Apr 2004 20:13:01 +0100, "Set Square"
wrote:

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Malcolm Hackett wrote:

I know that plumbers bend the stuff all the time, but I hate
plumbing, so I've never tried! Possible project coming up on behalf
of designer wife, who fancies a low garden fence made of timber with
copper pipe inserts.
I had an idea that it might look good if the pipe lengths were bent
into inverted U shapes, but I don't know how easy it is to bend the
copper pipe. How tight a bend might be possible .. is it possible to
achieve a U shape? Also, what would be the best way to ensure that I
could get the SAME U shape each time (ie not all different sizes) ...
could I make up some kind of a timber form to bend around?
Or am I just deluding myself and should I attempt to persuade all
concerned to go for a timber picket fence?!


As others have suggested, you can use a pipe bender - like the Screwfix
model cited - or an internal bending spring used in conjunction with a
home-made wooden former.

A lot depends on what size of U you want. The pipe bender is far easier
to
use, but will only really produce a decent looking U if you do one
continuous bend, at a radius determined by the size of its pulley.

If you use a spring, you can define your own radius by making a suitable
former. But be prepared to waste quite a lot of pipe because you'll need
a
straight piece either side of the U in order to get some leverage. As
someone else said, over-bend it slightly and then unbend it back to the
required position in order to make it easier to get the spring out -
particularly if the spring goes right inside the pipe without having an
end
to catch hold of.
Dies your wife expect the copper inserts to look the colour of copper
pipes in the house, or the green colour of corroded copper?

I think she will expect it to corrode and develop a patina over time ... but
I'd better check(!) Why ask?


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.634 / Virus Database: 406 - Release Date: 18/03/04

There is no point in doing a lot of work if the result does not give
the effect desired by the person asking for the work.

In article ,
James Hart wrote:
CPC do a range where the wall mount and ceiling mount units are pretty
much the same price, 50ish quid for up to a 33" screen.

Thanks for that - I'm pretty certain I checked them at the time, and they
didn't then. Also, many of the universal types are pretty hideous to look
at - I think mine looks good. But then I would. ;-)

--
*Growing old is inevitable, growing up is optional *

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

Paint the copper with a salt water solution.
Place it in a plastic bag, I used a black bin liner.
Put a pot in the bottom partly filled with something absorbent, paper
towel, sawdust, even unused cat litter ( I used a clean empty
margarine pot and paper towels)
Pour some Houshold Ammonia into the pot, fasten the top of the bag
and leave for a few days. Do this outside.
Boots sell the Ammonia, but have also seen it in Waitrose and hardware
stores. No need to clean the copper before you start.
Norma
(Please do not reply by email)

Brian S Gray wrote
"Malcolm Hackett" wrote:

I'd better check(!) Why ask?

There is no point in doing a lot of work if the result does not give
the effect desired by the person asking for the work.

VVBG Amen brother.

This sounds like the voice of experience here !

Cheers

Paul.

Peter wrote in message . ..

I think this should make a most unusual fence. Can anyone in the
group tell us if there is anything that can be done to age copper
quicky to get the green patina?

Peter

Clean it properly and brush on vinegar will get it geeen. Do
appreciate that copper compounds are not 100% innocent. If your dog
chews it, s/he may die. Given which I cant recommend doing it.

Regards, NT