Hi all,

Having worked from home for several years I have long yearned for a
seperately electrically metered office. We just moved house and I am
currently setting up office in the garage. The consumer unit is in
the garage and I have added a simple ring circuit in 2.5mm2 T&E with
three double sockets.

Previously my employer has estimated my electrical consumption based
on number of PCs running etc but I have always felt that his
estimations were rather low leaving me out of pocket.

I popped in to my local trade counter and asked how I could get my
garage circuit metered seperately. A friendly spark suggested a
reconditioned credit meter (£12 ish) would do the job quite nicely.

I now have the meter and am wondering what the best way is to wire it
in.

It has 4 connections MAIN (Live and Neutral) and LOAD (Live and
Neutral. Am I correct in assuming that I need to run one cable from
the CU to the new meter (connected to the MAIN terminal) and then run
my ring circuit from the LOAD terminal? As the new meter has no earth
connections, I also assume that the 3 earth wires will simply be
connected together?

Thanks!


Mike Armstrong

It has 4 connections MAIN (Live and Neutral) and LOAD (Live and
Neutral. Am I correct in assuming that I need to run one cable from
the CU to the new meter (connected to the MAIN terminal) and then run
my ring circuit from the LOAD terminal? As the new meter has no earth
connections, I also assume that the 3 earth wires will simply be
connected together?

Yes on all counts. Meters are usually run in double insulated singles.
Technically, you shouldn't use T&E (or single insulated singles), as the
outer sheath will be cut back and accessible. I'd suggest running the T&E
feed and load cables to a junction box (a simple double socket and blank
faceplate would be good) and running the correct cable up to the meter on
short double insulated tails from there, with the earths connected inside
the box.

Christian.

On Tue, 2 Nov 2004 17:24:46 -0000, "Christian McArdle"
wrote:

It has 4 connections MAIN (Live and Neutral) and LOAD (Live and
Neutral. Am I correct in assuming that I need to run one cable from
the CU to the new meter (connected to the MAIN terminal) and then run
my ring circuit from the LOAD terminal? As the new meter has no earth
connections, I also assume that the 3 earth wires will simply be
connected together?

Yes on all counts. Meters are usually run in double insulated singles.
Technically, you shouldn't use T&E (or single insulated singles), as the
outer sheath will be cut back and accessible. I'd suggest running the T&E
feed and load cables to a junction box (a simple double socket and blank
faceplate would be good) and running the correct cable up to the meter on
short double insulated tails from there, with the earths connected inside
the box.

Christian.


Thanks for the prompt reply Christian.

What size cable would you recommend using for the run from the CU to
the meter (MAIN) and the run from the meter (LOAD) to the junction box
(as these are effectively radial sections). Also, should I use normal
terminal connection blocks inside the junction box. I haven't used
double insulated singles before. I assume that they come in various
thicknesses ... what would you recommend?


Thanks again


Mike

"Christian McArdle" wrote
| Yes on all counts. Meters are usually run in double insulated
| singles. Technically, you shouldn't use T&E (or single
| insulated singles), as the outer sheath will be cut back
| and accessible. I'd suggest running the T&E feed and load
| cables to a junction box (a simple double socket and blank
| faceplate would be good) and running the correct cable up
| to the meter on short double insulated tails from there,
| with the earths connected inside the box.

It may be possible to mount a double pattress and blanking plate butting up
against the meter, which would neaten things and enable single-insulated
cores of T&E to run right into the meter.

If using a metal box, it must of course be earthed, holes grommeted, and
live and neutral of a pair MUST go through same hole (to prevent eddy
currents).

Owain

Mike Armstrong wrote:
Hi all,

Having worked from home for several years I have long yearned for a
seperately electrically metered office. We just moved house and I am
currently setting up office in the garage. The consumer unit is in
the garage and I have added a simple ring circuit in 2.5mm2 T&E with
three double sockets.

Previously my employer has estimated my electrical consumption based
on number of PCs running etc but I have always felt that his
estimations were rather low leaving me out of pocket.

What were the estimations on one PCs power use?
They may in fact be high, in which case installing a meter may be a bad
idea.

On Tue, 2 Nov 2004 19:31:38 -0000, "Owain"
wrote:

"Christian McArdle" wrote
| Yes on all counts. Meters are usually run in double insulated
| singles. Technically, you shouldn't use T&E (or single
| insulated singles), as the outer sheath will be cut back
| and accessible. I'd suggest running the T&E feed and load
| cables to a junction box (a simple double socket and blank
| faceplate would be good) and running the correct cable up
| to the meter on short double insulated tails from there,
| with the earths connected inside the box.

It may be possible to mount a double pattress and blanking plate butting up
against the meter, which would neaten things and enable single-insulated
cores of T&E to run right into the meter.

If using a metal box, it must of course be earthed, holes grommeted, and
live and neutral of a pair MUST go through same hole (to prevent eddy
currents).

Owain


Hi Owain,

It's all surface mounted. Would a plastic box will be OK? I've never
heared of eddy currents ... what are they?


Do you think that 2.5mm2 T&E cores would be OK for the tails and
connection to the CU or would 4mm2 be better?


Thanks

Mike

On 02 Nov 2004 23:51:45 GMT, Ian Stirling
wrote:

Mike Armstrong wrote:
Hi all,

Having worked from home for several years I have long yearned for a
seperately electrically metered office. We just moved house and I am
currently setting up office in the garage. The consumer unit is in
the garage and I have added a simple ring circuit in 2.5mm2 T&E with
three double sockets.

Previously my employer has estimated my electrical consumption based
on number of PCs running etc but I have always felt that his
estimations were rather low leaving me out of pocket.

What were the estimations on one PCs power use?
They may in fact be high, in which case installing a meter may be a bad
idea.

Hi Ian,

I get about £90 pa. That is for 2 PCs running 24/7 plus associated
modems/router/scanner/printer/speakers etc. The killer is that the
office is heated electrically with a combination of an oil filled
radiator and an electric fan heater.

I can't imagine that lot being less than £90 pa. It'll be interesting
to see for sure though.


Mike

In article ,
Mike Armstrong writes:
Hi all,

Having worked from home for several years I have long yearned for a
seperately electrically metered office. We just moved house and I am
currently setting up office in the garage. The consumer unit is in
the garage and I have added a simple ring circuit in 2.5mm2 T&E with
three double sockets.

Previously my employer has estimated my electrical consumption based
on number of PCs running etc but I have always felt that his
estimations were rather low leaving me out of pocket.

If your employer starts paying things like electric and heating
bills for part of your house for work purposes, you will have to
pay capital gains tax on the appreciation of that part of your
house when you sell it as it will no longer fall under the main
residence exception rules. You are normally very much better off
paying the bills yourself than paying the capital gains tax.
Certainly don't go down that road without working it out, and
probably talking with your accountant.

--
Andrew Gabriel

On 3 Nov 2004 02:54:53 GMT, (Andrew
Gabriel) wrote:

In article ,
Mike Armstrong writes:
Hi all,

Having worked from home for several years I have long yearned for a
seperately electrically metered office. We just moved house and I am
currently setting up office in the garage. The consumer unit is in
the garage and I have added a simple ring circuit in 2.5mm2 T&E with
three double sockets.

Previously my employer has estimated my electrical consumption based
on number of PCs running etc but I have always felt that his
estimations were rather low leaving me out of pocket.

If your employer starts paying things like electric and heating
bills for part of your house for work purposes, you will have to
pay capital gains tax on the appreciation of that part of your
house when you sell it as it will no longer fall under the main
residence exception rules. You are normally very much better off
paying the bills yourself than paying the capital gains tax.
Certainly don't go down that road without working it out, and
probably talking with your accountant.

Hi Andrew,

I'm no expert in matters of taxation and you clearly are fairly
knowledgeable. Currently my employer re-imburses me for out of pocket
expenses (ie things I've paid for but use for the business) like
consumables and my work-line phone bill. This is a straight
reimbursement and I don't gain from it in any way. I think this
figure shows up on my P11D?

How does reimbursing me for an element of my domestic power bill
differ from this?

Actually, my employer has been paying me this estimated contribution
since 1998. He is normally very particular about tax matters.
Perhaps I should add that my home address is not a registered business
address.


Cheers!


Mike

What size cable would you recommend using for the run from the CU to
the meter (MAIN) and the run from the meter (LOAD) to the junction box
(as these are effectively radial sections).

Minimum 6mm. Calculations might enable you to go 4mm, but this depends on
the length of the cables involved and the installation method.

This applies to all cables that hold the full circuit current, including the
T&E from the CU.

Christian.

Ian Stirling wrote in message ...
Mike Armstrong wrote:
Hi all,

Having worked from home for several years I have long yearned for a
seperately electrically metered office. We just moved house and I am
currently setting up office in the garage. The consumer unit is in
the garage and I have added a simple ring circuit in 2.5mm2 T&E with
three double sockets.

Previously my employer has estimated my electrical consumption based
on number of PCs running etc but I have always felt that his
estimations were rather low leaving me out of pocket.

What were the estimations on one PCs power use?
They may in fact be high, in which case installing a meter may be a bad
idea.

Just don't tell the boss until you know which system is most
favourable to you. Then the taxman will have you for making a
profit;-)

MBQ

In article ,
Mike Armstrong writes:
On 3 Nov 2004 02:54:53 GMT, (Andrew
Gabriel) wrote:
If your employer starts paying things like electric and heating
bills for part of your house for work purposes, you will have to
pay capital gains tax on the appreciation of that part of your
house when you sell it as it will no longer fall under the main
residence exception rules. You are normally very much better off
paying the bills yourself than paying the capital gains tax.
Certainly don't go down that road without working it out, and
probably talking with your accountant.

Hi Andrew,

I'm no expert in matters of taxation and you clearly are fairly
knowledgeable.

oooh -- don't assume that! It's an issue which a few colleagues
of mine have bumped into over the years when getting advice from
their accountants. I'm just warning you to check with yours first.

Currently my employer re-imburses me for out of pocket
expenses (ie things I've paid for but use for the business) like
consumables and my work-line phone bill. This is a straight
reimbursement and I don't gain from it in any way. I think this
figure shows up on my P11D?

I think that's fine (and AFAIK it shouldn't show up on your P11D
unless you use it for non-work purposes).

How does reimbursing me for an element of my domestic power bill
differ from this?

I don't understand why it's different -- talk with an accountant.

--
Andrew Gabriel

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote
| Currently my employer re-imburses me for out of pocket
| expenses (ie things I've paid for but use for the business)
| like consumables and my work-line phone bill. This is a
| straight reimbursement and I don't gain from it in any way.
| I think this figure shows up on my P11D?
| I think that's fine (and AFAIK it shouldn't show up on your P11D
| unless you use it for non-work purposes).
| How does reimbursing me for an element of my domestic power bill
| differ from this?
| I don't understand why it's different -- talk with an accountant.

My understanding is because the supply is separately metered, you are
dedicating that area of the house *solely* to work purposes and it thus
loses the domestic dwelling exemptions. (It may also become a workplace
under the Health and Safety At Work Act... lots of implications there.)

Use of a room in the house for work is okay provided it can /also/ be used
domestically, eg sofa bed makes it a 'guest bedroom with desk' rather than
'office'

Owain

"Mike Armstrong" wrote
| It's all surface mounted. Would a plastic box will be OK?
| I've never heared of eddy currents ... what are they?

If you have the phase and neutral of a pair going through different holes in
a metal box, the box in effect becomes a coil round the conductor, and a
current can be induced.

| Do you think that 2.5mm2 T&E cores would be OK for the tails and
| connection to the CU or would 4mm2 be better?

Given that this is a ring circuit with a 32A MCB then the conductors must be
rated accordingly. A *ring* of 2.5mm is (usually) adequate, but for a radial
(which is what the tails between the CU and the submeter are) you should
probably use 6mm.

Bear in mind that as this is an installation specifically for work purposes,
the Electricity at Work Regulations will probably apply. You (or your boss)
would therefore need to obtain inspection and test certificate on the
circuit(s).

Owain

On Wed, 3 Nov 2004 12:14:19 -0000, "Owain"
wrote:

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote
| Currently my employer re-imburses me for out of pocket
| expenses (ie things I've paid for but use for the business)
| like consumables and my work-line phone bill. This is a
| straight reimbursement and I don't gain from it in any way.
| I think this figure shows up on my P11D?
| I think that's fine (and AFAIK it shouldn't show up on your P11D
| unless you use it for non-work purposes).
| How does reimbursing me for an element of my domestic power bill
| differ from this?
| I don't understand why it's different -- talk with an accountant.

My understanding is because the supply is separately metered, you are
dedicating that area of the house *solely* to work purposes and it thus
loses the domestic dwelling exemptions. (It may also become a workplace
under the Health and Safety At Work Act... lots of implications there.)

Use of a room in the house for work is okay provided it can /also/ be used
domestically, eg sofa bed makes it a 'guest bedroom with desk' rather than
'office'

Owain


Gosh, this getting more complicated than I had imagined!

This 'office' is basically a partitioned-off section of the garage
which houses a couple of PCs and desks. Although I work from it
during the day, it also serves as a 'study' as my main PC is my own
and I use it for leisure purposes in the evenings. As I frequently
also work in the evenings (and my backup-image creation happens in the
evening), my boss is OK to pick up the tab for a PC which is on 24/7.
The 'office' also contains a tumble dryer (connected to a circuit NOT
on the submeter) so the room also functions as a utility room!

The area is definitely not dedicated solely to work purposes! I guess
it's a matter of interpretation.


Mike

"Mike Armstrong" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 3 Nov 2004 12:14:19 -0000, "Owain"
wrote:

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote
| Currently my employer re-imburses me for out of pocket
| expenses (ie things I've paid for but use for the business)
| like consumables and my work-line phone bill. This is a
| straight reimbursement and I don't gain from it in any way.
| I think this figure shows up on my P11D?
| I think that's fine (and AFAIK it shouldn't show up on your P11D
| unless you use it for non-work purposes).
| How does reimbursing me for an element of my domestic power bill
| differ from this?
| I don't understand why it's different -- talk with an accountant.

My understanding is because the supply is separately metered, you are
dedicating that area of the house *solely* to work purposes and it thus
loses the domestic dwelling exemptions. (It may also become a workplace
under the Health and Safety At Work Act... lots of implications there.)

Use of a room in the house for work is okay provided it can /also/ be
used
domestically, eg sofa bed makes it a 'guest bedroom with desk' rather
than
'office'

Owain


Gosh, this getting more complicated than I had imagined!

This 'office' is basically a partitioned-off section of the garage
which houses a couple of PCs and desks. Although I work from it
during the day, it also serves as a 'study' as my main PC is my own
and I use it for leisure purposes in the evenings. As I frequently
also work in the evenings (and my backup-image creation happens in the
evening), my boss is OK to pick up the tab for a PC which is on 24/7.
The 'office' also contains a tumble dryer (connected to a circuit NOT
on the submeter) so the room also functions as a utility room!

The area is definitely not dedicated solely to work purposes! I guess
it's a matter of interpretation.

The proportion of usage for 'work purposes' will be a consideration
for the tax-man; you have excluded the sole domestic residence
part of the CGT regulations ... ;(
Also, entirely separately, have you examined your household insurance
policy to see whether it covers usage of your 'domestic' building for
business purposes. [ A company I worked for insisted on seeing that
private motor vehicles had 'business use' added to folks' policies before
paying mileage-allowance] ... (You're not using a Social, Domestic
and Pleasure type policy are you?)

If you're using either the telephone or electricity supply for
non-domestic purposes ... have you consulted your providers
to ensure you're paying the appropriate tariff?

Are there H&S compliant fire extinguishers and first-aid
facilities?

Finally, are there any covenants in your title-deeds restricting the
usage of your land (and heridaments)? Mine, incidentally only
permit the land (and heridaments) to be used for the purposes of
'trade' by a Medical Doctor or Dentist -one wouldn't want the tone
of the neighbourhood to go down hill

The provision of a legal and compliant work-space is a not-inconsiderable
cost to an employer ... see rental fees per square foot for your area
and/or
business such as Regis(?) which rent out office space by the hour/day/week
...
It's no surprise that your employer "re-imburses me for out of pocket
expenses".

--

Brian

Mike Armstrong wrote:
On 02 Nov 2004 23:51:45 GMT, Ian Stirling
wrote:
snip
What were the estimations on one PCs power use?
They may in fact be high, in which case installing a meter may be a bad
idea.

Hi Ian,

I get about ?90 pa. That is for 2 PCs running 24/7 plus associated
modems/router/scanner/printer/speakers etc. The killer is that the
office is heated electrically with a combination of an oil filled
radiator and an electric fan heater.

I can't imagine that lot being less than ?90 pa. It'll be interesting
to see for sure though.

Ok.
2 PCs running 24*7 (assuming you are only running the display when using
them) will use some 50-70W each.
Maybe 30W for the rest (inactive).
Call it 200W. (neglecting heater, what sort of room? 200W may go quite a
way towards warming it)

200W = 1 unit / 5 hours, or 5 units a day.
Call it 2000 units, or maybe 160 quid.

It is very unlikely to be under 90 quid, unless the PCs are laptops, in
which case it probably is.

Personally, I'd use a small electricity meter of the sort that maplin
sell for around 15 quid to measure the electricity use. (these may overread
on some sorts of PC) and submit this info to the employer.

"Mike Armstrong" wrote
| This 'office' is basically a partitioned-off section of the
| garage which houses a couple of PCs and desks.

Oh, even worse! You've converted garage space into habitable accommodation
without (I presume, correct me if wrong) Building Regulations approval (fire
separation between a garage and habitable space - and as its a workspace the
Fire Precautions Act possibly applies too).

I trust the desks and chairs have been audited as compliant with Display
Screen Equipment regulations ...

Owain

In article , Owain owain41276@sti
rlingcity.co.uk writes
"Mike Armstrong" wrote
| This 'office' is basically a partitioned-off section of the
| garage which houses a couple of PCs and desks.

Oh, even worse! You've converted garage space into habitable accommodation
without (I presume, correct me if wrong) Building Regulations approval (fire
separation between a garage and habitable space - and as its a workspace the
Fire Precautions Act possibly applies too).

I trust the desks and chairs have been audited as compliant with Display
Screen Equipment regulations ...

Owain


Sometimes..

I wonder how we in this country ever get anything "done" anymore....
--
Tony Sayer

(Andrew Gabriel) wrote in message ...
In article ,
Mike Armstrong writes:
Hi all,

Having worked from home for several years I have long yearned for a
seperately electrically metered office. We just moved house and I am
currently setting up office in the garage. The consumer unit is in
the garage and I have added a simple ring circuit in 2.5mm2 T&E with
three double sockets.

Previously my employer has estimated my electrical consumption based
on number of PCs running etc but I have always felt that his
estimations were rather low leaving me out of pocket.

If your employer starts paying things like electric and heating
bills for part of your house for work purposes, you will have to
pay capital gains tax on the appreciation of that part of your
house when you sell it as it will no longer fall under the main
residence exception rules. You are normally very much better off
paying the bills yourself than paying the capital gains tax.
Certainly don't go down that road without working it out, and
probably talking with your accountant.

As Andrew says, the capital gains tax will only be due on the
proportion of the house used for business. It will also be pro-rata if
that portion of the house is shared use. E.g. if the "office" is 10%
of the house but that room is also used 50% of the time for domestic
purposes then CGT is ony applicable to 5% of any gain. You have a CGT
allowance of £8200 fot the current tax year so your house will need to
appreciate by £164000 from the date you set up the office before any
tax is actually payable (assuming no other gains in tha same tax
year). If the house is in joint names then you each have that
allowance and you would need to make £328000 before any CGT is
payable. You can also make allowance for appreciation due to
improvements so that they do not incur CGT.

Unless you're house is going to appreciate considerably then CGT will
be the least of your worries!

MBQ