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tony sayer
 
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Default Kitchen.. distance from cooker to sink?


Someone told moi in a kitchen suppliers depot the other week that there
is a distance that you must *exceed* between the Sink and a Cooker hob
i.e. so that you can't touch them with both hands, one hand on the hob
the other on the sink as it were.

Is this actually the case, as surely both should be earth bonded?.

BTW whilst on the subject is there an industry standard from the floor
to the top of the work top or not?.

Cheers..
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Tony Sayer

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Richard
 
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tony sayer wrote:

BTW whilst on the subject is there an industry standard from the floor
to the top of the work top or not?.


Yes there is and, if my experience is anything to go by, it is set so
that Osteopaths/Chiropractors and the like are kept in regular
employment, i.e. too low! My existing kitchen surfaces are an
excrutiating 900 mm high, the replacement will be 950 mm high. If you
are installing, or having installed, a kitchen get it put in at a height
that suits you, not the installer/supplier!

I judge the best height by standing at a working distance from the edge
of the surface and, without leaning forward, seeing how far towards the
rear edge I can place my hand flat on the surface. If I reach about 70%
towards the back I reckon that's a good compromise in terms of height at
the front edge and height at the rear. Over the years I have come to
the conclusion that stuff clutters work surfaces if you can't easily
reach all or most of the surface without straining your back. Another
consideration is that of sink height; don't forget that the part of the
sink which will have most impact on your back is the base, not the top lip.

Getting off hobby horse now. Sorry but appropriate height of work
surfaces gets me really worked up.

Richard


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Christian McArdle
 
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Is this actually the case, as surely both should be earth bonded?.

Incorrect. There is no requirement to supplementary bond anything in the
kitchen. The hob surface may be bonded through the electric supply, if it is
a metal gas type with mains ignition, although it might be double insulated
instead.

Christian.


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Ian Stirling
 
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Richard wrote:


tony sayer wrote:

BTW whilst on the subject is there an industry standard from the floor
to the top of the work top or not?.


Yes there is and, if my experience is anything to go by, it is set so
that Osteopaths/Chiropractors and the like are kept in regular
employment, i.e. too low! My existing kitchen surfaces are an
excrutiating 900 mm high, the replacement will be 950 mm high. If you
are installing, or having installed, a kitchen get it put in at a height
that suits you, not the installer/supplier!

snip
Getting off hobby horse now. Sorry but appropriate height of work
surfaces gets me really worked up.


It's your own damn fault.
Most sane people do not use worktops when mounted


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Rob Graham
 
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Richard wrote in message ...
tony sayer wrote:

BTW whilst on the subject is there an industry standard from the floor
to the top of the work top or not?.


Yes there is and, if my experience is anything to go by, it is set so
that Osteopaths/Chiropractors and the like are kept in regular
employment, i.e. too low! My existing kitchen surfaces are an
excrutiating 900 mm high, the replacement will be 950 mm high. If you
are installing, or having installed, a kitchen get it put in at a height
that suits you, not the installer/supplier!

I judge the best height by standing at a working distance from the edge
of the surface and, without leaning forward, seeing how far towards the
rear edge I can place my hand flat on the surface. If I reach about 70%
towards the back I reckon that's a good compromise in terms of height at
the front edge and height at the rear. Over the years I have come to
the conclusion that stuff clutters work surfaces if you can't easily
reach all or most of the surface without straining your back. Another
consideration is that of sink height; don't forget that the part of the
sink which will have most impact on your back is the base, not the top lip.

Getting off hobby horse now. Sorry but appropriate height of work
surfaces gets me really worked up.

Richard


Can't agree with you more; ours was set so that we were not bending
our backs when doing the washing up. For a 5' 9" male that gave a
worktop height of 96cm (sorry for mixing the units - I don't know my
metric height) and it has been excellent.

One thing I would suggest, if the option, is available is a lower
surface - in our case 10cm lower for making things like pastry. If you
are really wanting to impress your lady partner you insert a marble
surface into that for keeping the pastry cool when working it.

Rob
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Richard
 
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Rob Graham wrote:

Can't agree with you more; ours was set so that we were not bending
our backs when doing the washing up. For a 5' 9" male that gave a
worktop height of 96cm (sorry for mixing the units - I don't know my
metric height) and it has been excellent.



Lucky devil - 960 mm or even higher would be better for me at 6'2'' but
SWMBO is not as tall, another compromise (in every sense!)

One thing I would suggest, if the option, is available is a lower
surface - in our case 10cm lower for making things like pastry. If you
are really wanting to impress your lady partner you insert a marble
surface into that for keeping the pastry cool when working it.

Rob


No need for marble pastry surfaces. Liz's extremities are like ice all
year round (Raynaud's Syndrome + Arthristis)

But, I would have liked a low hob - perhaps 900 - but that would have
added far too much to the kitchen complexity.

Cheers Richard

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Real email address is RJS at BIGFOOT dot COM

The information contained in this post
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Christian McArdle
 
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and the sink will be earthed to the water and mains earth which is very
close by...

Personally, if I was installing a metal kitchen sink, I would ensure that I
used plastic plumbing, at least for the last metre or so. Isolation is safer
than bonding, if achievable.

Christian.


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tony sayer
 
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In article , Christian
McArdle writes
and the sink will be earthed to the water and mains earth which is very

close by...

Personally, if I was installing a metal kitchen sink, I would ensure that I
used plastic plumbing, at least for the last metre or so. Isolation is safer
than bonding, if achievable.

Christian.



Why do you reckon that then Christian?...
--
Tony Sayer

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Christian McArdle
 
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Why do you reckon that then Christian?...

Because you won't get a shock from an isolated piece of metal, even with you
other hand clamped firmly on a live conductor. If the metal is earthed, you
have a low impedence path to earth. The RCD might save you if the live
conductor happens to be connected via an RCD. If not, you're toast. The 32A
MCB will require 160A to guarantee disconnection, which is not going to
happen!

The IEE agree. Even in bathrooms they advise not to bond metal baths or
radiators if all supplies and wastes are plastic and the item is not in
contact with structural metalwork. Indeed, they strongly recommend
connecting using plastic pipework so that you can take advantage of the
additional safety thereby provided.

Christian.




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tony sayer
 
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In article , Christian
McArdle writes
Why do you reckon that then Christian?...


Because you won't get a shock from an isolated piece of metal, even with you
other hand clamped firmly on a live conductor.


Yes, but the leakage is likely to be quite high though. Even more so
when the water is running. Apart from that you have plastic plumbing
and metal taps so the "water" is connected to the sink unless we've used
isolating washers?...

If the metal is earthed, you
have a low impedence path to earth.


Quite..

The RCD might save you if the live
conductor happens to be connected via an RCD. If not, you're toast. The 32A
MCB will require 160A to guarantee disconnection, which is not going to
happen!


Course not, but as you say yer RCD will if its whole house protection.

The IEE agree. Even in bathrooms they advise not to bond metal baths or
radiators if all supplies and wastes are plastic and the item is not in
contact with structural metalwork. Indeed, they strongly recommend
connecting using plastic pipework so that you can take advantage of the
additional safety thereby provided.


So the "installers" who've just put the bathroom and wiring in my
daughters new place have used plastic pipe and earthed everything in
sight!...

Reg's who needs him(

Christian.



I seemed to think that somewhere the great idea was to bond "everything"
together in kitchens and bathrooms, so that there were no potential
differences anywhere????....
--
Tony Sayer

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tony sayer
 
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In article , Christian
McArdle writes
Yes, but the leakage is likely to be quite high though. Even more so
when the water is running.


The IEE did a series of tests of water in plastic pipework and determined
that the resistance was sufficiently high on a 1m section of pipework to
reduce leakage current from a direct live to be below a safe value. Indeed,
fresh water would give about 2.4mA for mains through a metre of plastic pipe
to a good earth, which is pretty safe. Obviously, dirty water is likely to
give greater leakage, but it is probably still enough over that distance to
keep below 30mA, which is what an RCD protects you for.


I'll have to find a guinea pig to experiment with sometime)

In bathrooms, the regs tell you to electrically isolate and not bond any
metalwork if possible. If that is not possible (i.e. it uses metal
pipework), then it must be supplementary bonded, as a second best measure.
Domestic kitchens don't have any requirements for supplementary bonding at
all.

Christian.



--
Tony Sayer

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