When to make offer?
 

My buyer is obviously very keen, as he has already ordered the
surveyor for tomorrow morning 8:30 am!

I intend in the next day or two to view some properties in my selected
area. As one of them has already had considerable interest expressed
in it (allegedly!), would I be being stupid by putting in an offer as
soon as I have seen it? Or should I wait until my buyer's surveyor has
reported back?

Does an offer have to be in writing at the first instance or can I
confirm in writing on my return? How will the estate agent of the
target property know that I am genuine? Perhaps I should take along
some relevant photcopies (from my solicitor, for example)?

MM

"MM" wrote in message
...
My buyer is obviously very keen, as he has already ordered the
surveyor for tomorrow morning 8:30 am!

I intend in the next day or two to view some properties in my selected
area. As one of them has already had considerable interest expressed
in it (allegedly!), would I be being stupid by putting in an offer as
soon as I have seen it? Or should I wait until my buyer's surveyor has
reported back?

Does an offer have to be in writing at the first instance or can I
confirm in writing on my return? How will the estate agent of the
target property know that I am genuine? Perhaps I should take along
some relevant photcopies (from my solicitor, for example)?

MM

Go and see all the houses you like, and then make up a short list for a
second viewing, when u have seen all those if and only if you like one make
an offer, I don't think anything has to be in writing as I never confirmed
anything in writing.

"MM" wrote in message
...
My buyer is obviously very keen, as he has already ordered the
surveyor for tomorrow morning 8:30 am!

Either that, or he does not know whether the mortgage company will approve
the loan and wants to get an answer as soon as possible.

I intend in the next day or two to view some properties in my selected
area. As one of them has already had considerable interest expressed
in it (allegedly!), would I be being stupid by putting in an offer as
soon as I have seen it? Or should I wait until my buyer's surveyor has
reported back?

Does an offer have to be in writing at the first instance or can I
confirm in writing on my return? How will the estate agent of the
target property know that I am genuine?

He will know you are genuine when you put down the 10% deposit. Until then,
you are simply a potential buyer - creatures who come and go without
discernable rhyme or reason. However, if you particularly want a property,
offering the asking price tends to focus the seller's attention. They don't
expect to get that much for it and it usually puts you ahead of the
competition.

Colin Bignell

"MM" wrote in message
...

Does an offer have to be in writing at the first instance or can I
confirm in writing on my return?

No, the agent will probably do that by writing back to you telling you that
your offer of X was accepted/not accepted

How will the estate agent
of the
target property know that I am genuine? Perhaps I should take along
some relevant photcopies (from my solicitor, for example)?

He'll likely ask for some evidence of ability to pay, eg 'mortgage in
principle' from a lender

David

MM wrote:
My buyer is obviously very keen, as he has already ordered the
surveyor for tomorrow morning 8:30 am!

I intend in the next day or two to view some properties in my selected
area. As one of them has already had considerable interest expressed
in it (allegedly!), would I be being stupid by putting in an offer as
soon as I have seen it? Or should I wait until my buyer's surveyor has
reported back?


In my experience when you find the property you want, you know it pretty
much straight away and there's not much point waiting around when that
happens. You are in no way commited until you exchange contracts, which
will be weeks down the line, though sellers will expect to see your
survey done asap as a measure of seriousness on your part (it's the
first indication they have that you are spending an money).


Does an offer have to be in writing at the first instance or can I
confirm in writing on my return? How will the estate agent of the
target property know that I am genuine? Perhaps I should take along
some relevant photcopies (from my solicitor, for example)?

The agent will probably want it in writing but will take it verbally in
the first instance. But they will already have tried to establish how
good a bet you are if they are any good. If you want to bolster that
with paperwork it can't hurt, but I've found they tend to believe you.

It's a good idea to get a mortgage offer in principle, and some lenders
are much quicker than others. Halifax and Alliance and Leicester get the
surveyer out within a week, I've heard Woolwich can take up to six
weeks, for example, which can make people antsy.

However, it looks like it's turning into a buyer's marker, so perhaps
you should be focusing on your purchaser and worrying less about finding
somewhere - if prices take a tumble then you will see a lot more on the
market all of a sudden.

They don't expect to get that much for it and it usually puts you ahead of
the competition.

....unless the OP is buying in Scotland, in which case they expect offers WAY
over asking price!

Glen

On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 23:50:31 +0100, JK wrote:

It's a good idea to get a mortgage offer in principle, and some lenders
are much quicker than others. Halifax and Alliance and Leicester get the
surveyer out within a week, I've heard Woolwich can take up to six
weeks, for example, which can make people antsy.

I won't require a mortgage. But I shall get a survey done
nevertheless, especially on the property I have my eye on, as it's 150
years old. As old as I feel this morning.

MM

"MM" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 23:50:31 +0100, JK wrote:

It's a good idea to get a mortgage offer in principle, and some lenders
are much quicker than others. Halifax and Alliance and Leicester get the
surveyer out within a week, I've heard Woolwich can take up to six
weeks, for example, which can make people antsy.

I won't require a mortgage.

So that makes you a Good Buyer... if the agent doesn't ask to see evidence
of your ability to pay, it could still be to your advantage to show him.
Buyers are likely to accept a lower offer from a cash buyer - it's not just
all about the size of the offer, it's the 'quality' that counts too... eg,
an offer of £130K from a definite cash buyer may be preferable to the seller
over one of £135 from someone who needs to organise a mortgage.

"JK" wrote in message ...
....
However, it looks like it's turning into a buyer's marker, so perhaps you
should be focusing on your purchaser and worrying less about finding
somewhere - if prices take a tumble then you will see a lot more on the
market all of a sudden.

All that is happening now is that prices are not increasing as dramatically
as they have been over the past few years, but are levelling out. There is
no reason to expect that prices will start to fall at all, much less that
they will tumble. When prices did drop suddenly last time, houses tended to
be less available at first, because people did not want to sell at a loss.
It was only as people had to sell and prices stayed low, that the number of
properties on the market rose, mainly because buyers with negative equity
could not afford to buy.

Colin Bignell

nightjar nightjar@ wrote:
"JK" wrote in message ...
...

However, it looks like it's turning into a buyer's marker, so perhaps you
should be focusing on your purchaser and worrying less about finding
somewhere - if prices take a tumble then you will see a lot more on the
market all of a sudden.


All that is happening now is that prices are not increasing as dramatically
as they have been over the past few years, but are levelling out. There is
no reason to expect that prices will start to fall at all, much less that
they will tumble. When prices did drop suddenly last time, houses tended to
be less available at first, because people did not want to sell at a loss.
It was only as people had to sell and prices stayed low, that the number of
properties on the market rose, mainly because buyers with negative equity
could not afford to buy.

This is certainly a subject that has been and will be done to death. I
was pondering the prospect of a fall in the shower this morning, and I
suspect you're right, as rates are still very low historically and
there's always a slowdown in the colder months. But there are other
factors that could make a difference -for example there are a lot of
investment properties that could suddenly go on the market. Having just
bought a bigger place, I certainly hope there isn't too much of a fall!

Does an offer have to be in writing at the first instance or can I
confirm in writing on my return? How will the estate agent of the
target property know that I am genuine?

Anything written or spoken other than exchange of contracts is meaningless.
Exchange will happen simultaneously with every property in the chain when
everyone is happy to do so. (Actually not in my case, as I like to keep
chains bumping along, so exchanged with my purchaser before my vendor). You
simply state the position of your buyer and the state of proceedings to your
vendor. If they find that acceptable along with your offer price, then you
can start to arrange conveyancing.

Christian.

On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 09:18:52 +0100, JK wrote:

nightjar nightjar@ wrote:
"JK" wrote in message ...
...

However, it looks like it's turning into a buyer's marker, so perhaps you
should be focusing on your purchaser and worrying less about finding
somewhere - if prices take a tumble then you will see a lot more on the
market all of a sudden.


All that is happening now is that prices are not increasing as dramatically
as they have been over the past few years, but are levelling out. There is
no reason to expect that prices will start to fall at all, much less that
they will tumble. When prices did drop suddenly last time, houses tended to
be less available at first, because people did not want to sell at a loss.
It was only as people had to sell and prices stayed low, that the number of
properties on the market rose, mainly because buyers with negative equity
could not afford to buy.

This is certainly a subject that has been and will be done to death. I
was pondering the prospect of a fall in the shower this morning, and I
suspect you're right, as rates are still very low historically and
there's always a slowdown in the colder months. But there are other
factors that could make a difference -for example there are a lot of
investment properties that could suddenly go on the market. Having just
bought a bigger place, I certainly hope there isn't too much of a fall!

Even if there is a fall, the market will pick up again, I'm sure. Even
the shocking negative equity problem arising out of the crash at the
end of the 1980s has been papered over again. One may need to stay
longer in one property before moving on. However, the trick is how to
spot the downturn *before* it happens! (Yeah, tell me where to buy
crystal balls!) Because when I put my house on the market in April,
agents everywhere were still full of the joys of spring and a new
Aston Martin in the driveway. That's why I listened, took their
orgasmic advice and put the house on at far too high an asking price.
Next time I sell I shall not just get three agents' valuations, but a
dozen! Well, maybe not that many, but I want to look into as many eyes
as possible while they tell me yet another version of why we went to
war.

Then I shall probably choose the LOWEST valuation!

MM

"nightjar" wrote in message ...
"MM" wrote in message
...
My buyer is obviously very keen, as he has already ordered the
surveyor for tomorrow morning 8:30 am!

Either that, or he does not know whether the mortgage company will approve
the loan and wants to get an answer as soon as possible.

I intend in the next day or two to view some properties in my selected
area. As one of them has already had considerable interest expressed
in it (allegedly!), would I be being stupid by putting in an offer as
soon as I have seen it? Or should I wait until my buyer's surveyor has
reported back?

Does an offer have to be in writing at the first instance or can I
confirm in writing on my return? How will the estate agent of the
target property know that I am genuine?

He will know you are genuine when you put down the 10% deposit. Until then,
you are simply a potential buyer - creatures who come and go without #

In five house purchases, I have only once put down a deposit.

Only the bottom of the chain put down a deposit these days. That is
then passed along the chain and you are not held liable for your 5% or
10% (whatecer you agrre to) until exchange of contracts.

MBQ

MM wrote in message . ..
My buyer is obviously very keen, as he has already ordered the
surveyor for tomorrow morning 8:30 am!

I intend in the next day or two to view some properties in my selected
area. As one of them has already had considerable interest expressed
in it (allegedly!), would I be being stupid by putting in an offer as
soon as I have seen it? Or should I wait until my buyer's surveyor has
reported back?

Does an offer have to be in writing at the first instance or can I
confirm in writing on my return? How will the estate agent of the
target property know that I am genuine? Perhaps I should take along
some relevant photcopies (from my solicitor, for example)?


It does not need to be in writing and I've never been asked for an
offer in writing. They know you are serious when you pay for the
surveyor to go round.

MBQ

"JK" wrote in message ...
nightjar nightjar@ wrote:
"JK" wrote in message
...
...

However, it looks like it's turning into a buyer's marker, so perhaps you
should be focusing on your purchaser and worrying less about finding
somewhere - if prices take a tumble then you will see a lot more on the
market all of a sudden.


All that is happening now is that prices are not increasing as
dramatically as they have been over the past few years, but are levelling
out. There is no reason to expect that prices will start to fall at all,
much less that they will tumble. When prices did drop suddenly last time,
houses tended to be less available at first, because people did not want
to sell at a loss. It was only as people had to sell and prices stayed
low, that the number of properties on the market rose, mainly because
buyers with negative equity could not afford to buy.

This is certainly a subject that has been and will be done to death. I was
pondering the prospect of a fall in the shower this morning, and I suspect
you're right, as rates are still very low historically and there's always
a slowdown in the colder months. But there are other factors that could
make a difference -for example there are a lot of investment properties
that could suddenly go on the market. Having just bought a bigger place, I
certainly hope there isn't too much of a fall!

I've just sold my late mother's house to someone who seems to own most of
the neighbourhood. While she plans to live in the house I've sold her, the
rest are investment properties and she says that she has no intention of
putting those onto the market yet. She would want the prices to go up quite
a bit before the profit from the sales becomes more attractive than the
income from the rentals.

Colin Bignell

On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 12:07:13 +0100, MM wrote:

Even if there is a fall, the market will pick up again, I'm sure.

Not if Labour eventually get their way with the sellers pack:

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0...237805,00.html

Apparently:

1) You have to get a sellers pack prior to putting the house on the
market (cost about £1000).
2) The sellers pack has a shelf life of 6 months, so you can't keep it
until next year to put the property back on the market (that's another
£1000 please madam).
3) The reports in the sellers pack won't be acceptable to the building
societies, so the buyer has to pay again to have surveys done.

Someone please tell me why these sellers packs are a brilliant idea?

Andrew

In message , Lobster
writes
"MM" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 23:50:31 +0100, JK wrote:

It's a good idea to get a mortgage offer in principle, and some lenders
are much quicker than others. Halifax and Alliance and Leicester get the
surveyer out within a week, I've heard Woolwich can take up to six
weeks, for example, which can make people antsy.

I won't require a mortgage.

So that makes you a Good Buyer... if the agent doesn't ask to see evidence
of your ability to pay, it could still be to your advantage to show him.
Buyers are likely to accept a lower offer from a cash buyer - it's not just
all about the size of the offer, it's the 'quality' that counts too... eg,
an offer of £130K from a definite cash buyer may be preferable to the seller
over one of £135 from someone who needs to organise a mortgage.



He's not a cash buyer as he has a house which is selling to provide the
money for the next one.

In general, an agent will prefer a buyer needing a mortgage over a buyer
needing to sell a house, but not needing a mortgage.

--
Richard Faulkner

On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 00:48:54 +0100, Richard Faulkner
wrote:

He's not a cash buyer as he has a house which is selling to provide the
money for the next one.

But I have already explained that I am prepared, if need be, to move
into rented accommodation for a short period, thus making me a cash
buyer when the sale of my property has been completed.

In general, an agent will prefer a buyer needing a mortgage over a buyer
needing to sell a house, but not needing a mortgage.

How about a buyer (still) needing a mortgage AND needing to sell a
house? As do most buyers.

Also, I have been told by at least three vendors that they are less
interested in FTBs who believe they will get up to 80% of the purchase
price, when it is patently obvious that their optimism is getting in
the way of reality. At least it looks less likely now that the
interest rate is going to be raised again this year.

I bought my next house yesterday. That is, we haggled, they accepted.
Solicitors have been instructed. We wait. Meanwhile, my 370 mile trek
around Britain over the past few days has done the clutch in (no, not
my foot on the pedal; one of the fingers inside the clutch plate
mechanism appears to be jammed or broken), so that's going to cost me
£160 on Monday.

MM

In message , MM
writes
On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 00:48:54 +0100, Richard Faulkner
wrote:

He's not a cash buyer as he has a house which is selling to provide the
money for the next one.

But I have already explained that I am prepared, if need be, to move
into rented accommodation for a short period, thus making me a cash
buyer when the sale of my property has been completed.


Agreed, but you are not a cash buyer at the moment. You are a buyer with
a house to sell which is under offer. If your buyer, or their buyer,
decide not to buy, you cannot buy the next house.

In general, an agent will prefer a buyer needing a mortgage over a buyer
needing to sell a house, but not needing a mortgage.

How about a buyer (still) needing a mortgage AND needing to sell a
house? As do most buyers.


More complicated, and more opportunities for problems than the other two
options, so least desirable.

A couple with a house each to sell, and their late parents house, and
needing a mortgage are even less desirable.

Mike - These are generalisations, and a good agent will use their
judgement in advising you in every circumstance. For example, if I make
an offer for a house locally, and need to sell 5 houses and get a
mortgage to buy, the agents know that I will arrange short term
remortgages, (loans), on the houses I need to sell, just in case they
dont.

Also, I have been told by at least three vendors that they are less
interested in FTBs who believe they will get up to 80% of the purchase
price, when it is patently obvious that their optimism is getting in
the way of reality. At least it looks less likely now that the
interest rate is going to be raised again this year.


My opinion has been formed over 17 years and the sale of around 2500
houses. Most vendors have sold up to 4 or 5 in a lifetime, (or 15 or
20....). Again, the agent should attempt to financially qualify any
purchaser, including an FTB. If they get the correct, unconflicting
answers from all sources, and the figures stack up, there is generally
more chance that the FTB will be able to proceed better than the others
- on average, and on balance.

I bought my next house yesterday. That is, we haggled, they accepted.
Solicitors have been instructed. We wait.

People buying houses tend to use very imprecise terminology, usually in
a way which suits their situation. Your offer has been confirmed as
acceptable, but you havent bought the house. There is many a slip 'tween
cup and lip and, as you say, you wait.

I truly hope it all goes OK. Many do. It's just that when it doesnt,
people get upset and look for someone to blame, (usually the estate
agent g), when it is actually quite normal and par for the course.


Meanwhile, my 370 mile trek
around Britain over the past few days has done the clutch in (no, not
my foot on the pedal; one of the fingers inside the clutch plate
mechanism appears to be jammed or broken), so that's going to cost me
£160 on Monday.


Small beer in the context of a house sale g

Regds
--
Richard Faulkner

In message , MM
writes
On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 00:48:54 +0100, Richard Faulkner
wrote:

He's not a cash buyer as he has a house which is selling to provide the
money for the next one.

But I have already explained that I am prepared, if need be, to move
into rented accommodation for a short period, thus making me a cash
buyer when the sale of my property has been completed.

Yes, that's fine, but you aren't a cash buyer yet, which is what matters
to the vendor of any house you make an offer on now. You've still to
complete the sale of your house, your buyers still need to arrange their
mortgage, plenty to still go wrong.....

In general, an agent will prefer a buyer needing a mortgage over a buyer
needing to sell a house, but not needing a mortgage.

How about a buyer (still) needing a mortgage AND needing to sell a
house? As do most buyers.

AFAIC they are really in pretty much the same position as the house
selling/no mortgage buyer. It's the selling of the house that takes the
time, getting a mortgage doesn't tend to hold up most sales (note
*most*, there are of course plenty of exceptions)

I take it Richard was just really talking about comparing potential cash
buyers (as you are) with someone who just needs a mortgage. I concur,
unless someone is being stupid in their expectations (and there are nop
'issues' with the house as regards the mortgage company) then getting a
mortgage is no great shakes.

Also, I have been told by at least three vendors that they are less
interested in FTBs who believe they will get up to 80% of the purchase
price,

80%? can there be many FTB who can afford less than 95% nowadays.

when it is patently obvious that their optimism is getting in
the way of reality. At least it looks less likely now that the
interest rate is going to be raised again this year.

Of course you need to judge the buyer on there circumstances. But a FTB
should know pretty quickly if they can get a mortgage (in principle
anyway) - a buyer with house is probably part of a chain with all the
problem that can cause no matter how 'god' your buyer.

I bought my next house yesterday. That is, we haggled, they accepted.
Solicitors have been instructed.

Hope all goes well.

We wait. Meanwhile, my 370 mile trek
around Britain over the past few days has done the clutch in

Bummer.

We are going to have to put our house on the market soon (get imminent
baby out of the way first...). Not looking forward to it.

--
Chris French, Leeds

On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 12:11:05 +0100, chris French
wrote:

We are going to have to put our house on the market soon (get imminent
baby out of the way first...). Not looking forward to it.

Baby will be a definite plus for people wanting a home to start a
family in aaah

Anna

~~ Anna Kettle, Suffolk, England
|""""| ~ Lime plaster repairs
/ ^^ \ // Freehand modelling in lime: overmantels, pargeting etc
|____| www.kettlenet.co.uk 01359 230642

On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 12:11:05 +0100, chris French
wrote:

In message , MM
writes
On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 00:48:54 +0100, Richard Faulkner
wrote:

He's not a cash buyer as he has a house which is selling to provide the
money for the next one.

But I have already explained that I am prepared, if need be, to move
into rented accommodation for a short period, thus making me a cash
buyer when the sale of my property has been completed.

Yes, that's fine, but you aren't a cash buyer yet, which is what matters
to the vendor of any house you make an offer on now. You've still to
complete the sale of your house, your buyers still need to arrange their
mortgage, plenty to still go wrong.....

In general, an agent will prefer a buyer needing a mortgage over a buyer
needing to sell a house, but not needing a mortgage.

How about a buyer (still) needing a mortgage AND needing to sell a
house? As do most buyers.

AFAIC they are really in pretty much the same position as the house
selling/no mortgage buyer. It's the selling of the house that takes the
time, getting a mortgage doesn't tend to hold up most sales (note
*most*, there are of course plenty of exceptions)

I take it Richard was just really talking about comparing potential cash
buyers (as you are) with someone who just needs a mortgage. I concur,
unless someone is being stupid in their expectations (and there are nop
'issues' with the house as regards the mortgage company) then getting a
mortgage is no great shakes.

Also, I have been told by at least three vendors that they are less
interested in FTBs who believe they will get up to 80% of the purchase
price,

80%? can there be many FTB who can afford less than 95% nowadays.

when it is patently obvious that their optimism is getting in
the way of reality. At least it looks less likely now that the
interest rate is going to be raised again this year.

Of course you need to judge the buyer on there circumstances. But a FTB
should know pretty quickly if they can get a mortgage (in principle
anyway) - a buyer with house is probably part of a chain with all the
problem that can cause no matter how 'god' your buyer.

I bought my next house yesterday. That is, we haggled, they accepted.
Solicitors have been instructed.

Hope all goes well.

We wait. Meanwhile, my 370 mile trek
around Britain over the past few days has done the clutch in

Bummer.

We are going to have to put our house on the market soon (get imminent
baby out of the way first...). Not looking forward to it.

Oh, babies aren't that bad once you get to know them!

The awful thing about moving is that one is SO in the lap of the gods
where so many people and organisations become involved over which one
has little or no control. This sale and purchase of mine is still a
relatively simple one, comprising these elements: A, B, C, and D. FTB
A buys B's house, B buys my house C, I buy new house D. That's it! Yet
already there is my solicitor, my buyer's solicitor, their buyer's
solicitor, and my vendor's solicitor. Then there are three different
estate agencies involved, plus removal companies, storage warehouses
and so on. There are countless things to change, notify or cancel and
everything has to happen by noon on completion date, with certain
things, like reading the meters, inevitably having to take place at
the last minute. Plus, one has to clean the house and leave it
presentable, then drive 120 miles to the new house before the estate
agent holding the key to the new property has gone home.

This whole system is the craziest imaginable, totally bizarre. There
must be a better way. Maybe the HIPs will be a step forward.

MM