Fixed v Flexible Gas Connections
 

For 30 years I've used free-standing gas cookers connected via a
flexible pipe which enables them to be pulled away from the wall for
cleaning.

I've just bought a modern kitchen with an electric under-oven and a gas
hob. The instructions for the hob specify a "fixed" gas pipe though they
don't specifically exclude flexible connections. A fixed connection
means an expensive Corgi job. Is it possible to continue using the
existing flexible pipe?

TIA

Another Dave
--
Change nospam to webtribe in e-mail address

On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 09:38:54 +0100, Another Dave
wrote:

For 30 years I've used free-standing gas cookers connected via a
flexible pipe which enables them to be pulled away from the wall for
cleaning.

I've just bought a modern kitchen with an electric under-oven and a gas
hob. The instructions for the hob specify a "fixed" gas pipe though they
don't specifically exclude flexible connections. A fixed connection
means an expensive Corgi job. Is it possible to continue using the
existing flexible pipe?

TIA

Another Dave
What does it say in the instructions? a fixed connection. Flexible
connections are for moveable/mobile appliances,not fixed appliances.

"Another Dave" wrote in message
...
For 30 years I've used free-standing gas cookers connected via a
flexible pipe which enables them to be pulled away from the wall for
cleaning.

I've just bought a modern kitchen with an electric under-oven and a gas
hob. The instructions for the hob specify a "fixed" gas pipe though they
don't specifically exclude flexible connections. A fixed connection
means an expensive Corgi job. Is it possible to continue using the
existing flexible pipe?

Must be a fixed copper gas pipe with an in-line gas tap that is accessible.

Another Dave wrote:

I've just bought a modern kitchen with an electric under-oven and a gas
hob. The instructions for the hob specify a "fixed" gas pipe though they
don't specifically exclude flexible connections. A fixed connection
means an expensive Corgi job. Is it possible to continue using the
existing flexible pipe?

I've seen a hob plumbed in with a flexi hose over a leccy oven.

The oven melted its way through the hose...

--
Scott

Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?

IMM wrote:

Must be a fixed copper gas pipe with an in-line gas tap that is
accessible.

Out of interest are you allowed to use one of those corrugated flexible
copper connectors on a gas pipe?

Jon

In article ,
Another Dave wrote:
I've just bought a modern kitchen with an electric under-oven and a gas
hob. The instructions for the hob specify a "fixed" gas pipe though they
don't specifically exclude flexible connections. A fixed connection
means an expensive Corgi job. Is it possible to continue using the
existing flexible pipe?

Assuming the flexible pipe isn't going to be subjected to heat etc, I
*really* can't see what they're on about.

My hob is connected in exactly this way. Makes it easy to remove for
cleaning.

--
*Why is it that rain drops but snow falls?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Jonathan Pearson" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:

Must be a fixed copper gas pipe with an in-line gas tap that is
accessible.

Out of interest are you allowed to use one of those corrugated flexible
copper connectors on a gas pipe?

Yes. They are for a one off bending and not fully flexible. They are also
fire resistant. They are also expensive.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Another Dave wrote:
I've just bought a modern kitchen with an electric under-oven and a gas
hob. The instructions for the hob specify a "fixed" gas pipe though they
don't specifically exclude flexible connections. A fixed connection
means an expensive Corgi job. Is it possible to continue using the
existing flexible pipe?

Assuming the flexible pipe isn't going to be subjected to heat etc, I
*really* can't see what they're on about.

My hob is connected in exactly this way. Makes it easy to remove for
cleaning.


What they are on about is the gas installation regulations..

Peter

In article ,
Peter wrote:
Assuming the flexible pipe isn't going to be subjected to heat etc, I
*really* can't see what they're on about.

My hob is connected in exactly this way. Makes it easy to remove for
cleaning.


What they are on about is the gas installation regulations..

Doesn't mean it makes sense, though. Either a flexible with a bayonet
connector is satisfactory, or it's not. If it's significantly more of a
risk than rigid pipe, it should be banned.

--
*Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 09:38:54 +0100, Another Dave wrote:

For 30 years I've used free-standing gas cookers connected via a
flexible pipe which enables them to be pulled away from the wall for
cleaning.

I've just bought a modern kitchen with an electric under-oven and a gas
hob. The instructions for the hob specify a "fixed" gas pipe though they
don't specifically exclude flexible connections. A fixed connection
means an expensive Corgi job. Is it possible to continue using the
existing flexible pipe?


Both the installation of a freestanding cooker and an inset hob whether by
flexible or rigid pipework are defined as 'gas work'. As such they may
only be performed by competant diyers or registered professionals.

The problem comes when the use of a flexible hose is within the competance
of a diyer but not the costruction of a rigid pipe supply.

In the Gas Fitting FAQ below you will still that the use of a flexible
hose is deprecated (and almost impossible to install in a compliant manner
for the supply of an inset hob).
As of 20th November the loop hole which permitted the use of flexibles is
closed with a revision to BS 6172.
Also required is minimum 300mm of worktop on each side.
Forbidden is fitting 700mm (5 burner) hobs under 600mm gaps in wall
cupboards.

I shall update the Gas Fitting FAQ to reflect these changes soon.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

In the Gas Fitting FAQ below you will still that the use of a flexible
hose is deprecated (and almost impossible to install in a compliant manner
for the supply of an inset hob).
As of 20th November the loop hole which permitted the use of flexibles is
closed with a revision to BS 6172.
Also required is minimum 300mm of worktop on each side.
Forbidden is fitting 700mm (5 burner) hobs under 600mm gaps in wall
cupboards.


Thanks for that the 300mm is new on me I must confess, being registered and
being employed to fit new hobs as replacements I find that 90% fail as to
clearances in some respect so unable to fit new hob. The instructions with
the new appliances are very good as a rule but diy persons never read them.

Peter

On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 16:54:51 +0000, Peter wrote:


In the Gas Fitting FAQ below you will still that the use of a flexible
hose is deprecated (and almost impossible to install in a compliant manner
for the supply of an inset hob).
As of 20th November the loop hole which permitted the use of flexibles is
closed with a revision to BS 6172.
Also required is minimum 300mm of worktop on each side.
Forbidden is fitting 700mm (5 burner) hobs under 600mm gaps in wall
cupboards.


Thanks for that the 300mm is new on me I must confess, being registered and
being employed to fit new hobs as replacements I find that 90% fail as to
clearances in some respect so unable to fit new hob. The instructions with
the new appliances are very good as a rule but diy persons never read them.

The new stuff is in this month's "Gas Installer" comic.

--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

Jonathan Pearson wrote:
IMM wrote:

Must be a fixed copper gas pipe with an in-line gas tap that is
accessible.


Out of interest are you allowed to use one of those corrugated flexible
copper connectors on a gas pipe?

I don't think they are to any British Standard - at least not one for
pipework approved for gas - in which case unless the manufacturer says
their flexible connector is approved for use with gas, then you can't.

Ed Sirett wrote:
On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 16:54:51 +0000, Peter wrote:


In the Gas Fitting FAQ below you will still that the use of a flexible
hose is deprecated (and almost impossible to install in a compliant manner
for the supply of an inset hob).
As of 20th November the loop hole which permitted the use of flexibles is
closed with a revision to BS 6172.
Also required is minimum 300mm of worktop on each side.
Forbidden is fitting 700mm (5 burner) hobs under 600mm gaps in wall
cupboards.


Thanks for that the 300mm is new on me I must confess, being registered and
being employed to fit new hobs as replacements I find that 90% fail as to
clearances in some respect so unable to fit new hob. The instructions with
the new appliances are very good as a rule but diy persons never read them.


The new stuff is in this month's "Gas Installer" comic.

Can't be arsed to dig mine out again but I do recall they _relaxed_ the
regs wrt the 50mm gap either side extending upwards, so now you can have
a 600mm wide hob below a 600mm wide gap in wall units.

Surely it never was OK to have a 700mm hob under a 600mm gap?

The instructions with
the new appliances are very good as a rule but diy persons never read them.


I read them! That's how this thread got started :-)

I've resigned myself to staying in for a couple of days waiting for a
gas man.

Cheers all,

Another Dave
--
Change nospam to webtribe in e-mail address

On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 00:12:08 +0000, John Stumbles wrote:

Ed Sirett wrote:
On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 16:54:51 +0000, Peter wrote:


In the Gas Fitting FAQ below you will still that the use of a flexible
hose is deprecated (and almost impossible to install in a compliant manner
for the supply of an inset hob).
As of 20th November the loop hole which permitted the use of flexibles is
closed with a revision to BS 6172.
Also required is minimum 300mm of worktop on each side.
Forbidden is fitting 700mm (5 burner) hobs under 600mm gaps in wall
cupboards.


Thanks for that the 300mm is new on me I must confess, being registered and
being employed to fit new hobs as replacements I find that 90% fail as to
clearances in some respect so unable to fit new hob. The instructions with
the new appliances are very good as a rule but diy persons never read them.


The new stuff is in this month's "Gas Installer" comic.

Can't be arsed to dig mine out again but I do recall they _relaxed_ the
regs wrt the 50mm gap either side extending upwards, so now you can have
a 600mm wide hob below a 600mm wide gap in wall units.

Surely it never was OK to have a 700mm hob under a 600mm gap?

No; but it got done they are now stating explicitly it is wrong.

--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

Ed Sirett wrote:

Both the installation of a freestanding cooker and an inset hob whether by
flexible or rigid pipework are defined as 'gas work'. As such they may
only be performed by competant diyers or registered professionals.

The problem comes when the use of a flexible hose is within the competance
of a diyer but not the costruction of a rigid pipe supply.

In the Gas Fitting FAQ below you will still that the use of a flexible
hose is deprecated (and almost impossible to install in a compliant manner
for the supply of an inset hob).
As of 20th November the loop hole which permitted the use of flexibles is
closed with a revision to BS 6172.
Also required is minimum 300mm of worktop on each side.
Forbidden is fitting 700mm (5 burner) hobs under 600mm gaps in wall
cupboards.

I shall update the Gas Fitting FAQ to reflect these changes soon.




Ed,

Does the above mean that my new 900 mm hob which will be installed by a
CORGI gas bod cannot be connected by a flexible hose to a rigid gas pipe
to which (s)he attaches a bayonet socket after 20 November? And does
it really matter, by which I mean that in a greenfield installation a
CORGI bod would be capable of making a fully rigid connection?

TIA

Richard

On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 22:11:26 +0100, Richard Savage wrote:



Ed Sirett wrote:

Both the installation of a freestanding cooker and an inset hob whether by
flexible or rigid pipework are defined as 'gas work'. As such they may
only be performed by competant diyers or registered professionals.

The problem comes when the use of a flexible hose is within the competance
of a diyer but not the costruction of a rigid pipe supply.

In the Gas Fitting FAQ below you will still that the use of a flexible
hose is deprecated (and almost impossible to install in a compliant manner
for the supply of an inset hob).
As of 20th November the loop hole which permitted the use of flexibles is
closed with a revision to BS 6172.
Also required is minimum 300mm of worktop on each side.
Forbidden is fitting 700mm (5 burner) hobs under 600mm gaps in wall
cupboards.

I shall update the Gas Fitting FAQ to reflect these changes soon.




Ed,

Does the above mean that my new 900 mm hob which will be installed by a
CORGI gas bod cannot be connected by a flexible hose to a rigid gas pipe
to which (s)he attaches a bayonet socket after 20 November? And does
it really matter, by which I mean that in a greenfield installation a
CORGI bod would be capable of making a fully rigid connection?


Even if currently:
a) The manufacturers don't forbid the use of a flexible for a fixed inset hob.
&
b) The flexible would hang in a neat unstrained U.
&
c) Enter the bayonet connector from below.
&
d) Not come into contact with anything that could get over 70C
&
e) Will not come into anything that might damage it (including what ever
might be stored in the cupboard below)

After the 20th Nov you must use rigid pipework for a fixed appliance.

A new installation would of course use fixed pipework with an isolator.
There would be at least one screwed joint to ease removal of the hob as
needed.

The proper way to supply a fixed appliance is with fixed pipe work.
This discussion only arises because often when kitchens are refitted the
inset hob ends up near where the old gas cooker stood. The temptation to
reuse the flexible hose as short cut to supplying the hob arises. This
temptation is heightened because some people feel they are competent to
connect up an inset hob with a flexible hose. Whereas they do not feel
sufficiently experienced to make a supply connection with copper pipe.



--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

Ed Sirett wrote:


The proper way to supply a fixed appliance is with fixed pipe work.
This discussion only arises because often when kitchens are refitted the
inset hob ends up near where the old gas cooker stood. The temptation to
reuse the flexible hose as short cut to supplying the hob arises. This
temptation is heightened because some people feel they are competent to
connect up an inset hob with a flexible hose. Whereas they do not feel
sufficiently experienced to make a supply connection with copper pipe.



Thanks Ed,

I can see why even a competant user of rigid copper would favour the use
of flexible pipe - access to the threaded stub on the u/s of my new hob
is likely to be obscured by the back of the cupboard (actually draw)
unit under the worksurface that the hob is to be set into. Generally
speaking how would that problem be overcome?

The only good thing seems to be the absence of heat sources under or
behind the hob and a tangle free route to the gas pipe.

Cheers Richard

On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 13:00:08 +0100, Richard Savage wrote:



Ed Sirett wrote:


The proper way to supply a fixed appliance is with fixed pipe work.
This discussion only arises because often when kitchens are refitted the
inset hob ends up near where the old gas cooker stood. The temptation to
reuse the flexible hose as short cut to supplying the hob arises. This
temptation is heightened because some people feel they are competent to
connect up an inset hob with a flexible hose. Whereas they do not feel
sufficiently experienced to make a supply connection with copper pipe.



Thanks Ed,

I can see why even a competant user of rigid copper would favour the use
of flexible pipe - access to the threaded stub on the u/s of my new hob
is likely to be obscured by the back of the cupboard (actually draw)
unit under the worksurface that the hob is to be set into. Generally
speaking how would that problem be overcome?

With difficulty.
The usual tactic is to route the pipe horizontally directly below the
worktop and in such a way that the drawer etc. is not obstructed.
The rest of the route will depend on the feature of the cupboard, in
a very awkward case I have had to route the pipe into the adjacent to
keep it clear of the gubbing in the drawer unit.

--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

Ed Sirett wrote:

With difficulty.


I thought that you might say that!

The usual tactic is to route the pipe horizontally directly below the
worktop and in such a way that the drawer etc. is not obstructed.
The rest of the route will depend on the feature of the cupboard, in
a very awkward case I have had to route the pipe into the adjacent to
keep it clear of the gubbing in the drawer unit.




I have made provision in the design for the drawers imediately below the
hob to become redundant if the need arises. So, in theory the
interfering part of the drawer back can be removed.

Cheers

Richard

--
Real email address is RJS at BIGFOOT dot COM

"Richard Savage" wrote in message
.. .


Ed Sirett wrote:

Both the installation of a freestanding cooker and an inset hob whether
by
flexible or rigid pipework are defined as 'gas work'. As such they may
only be performed by competant diyers or registered professionals.

The problem comes when the use of a flexible hose is within the
competance
of a diyer but not the costruction of a rigid pipe supply.

In the Gas Fitting FAQ below you will still that the use of a flexible
hose is deprecated (and almost impossible to install in a compliant
manner
for the supply of an inset hob).
As of 20th November the loop hole which permitted the use of flexibles is
closed with a revision to BS 6172.
Also required is minimum 300mm of worktop on each side.
Forbidden is fitting 700mm (5 burner) hobs under 600mm gaps in wall
cupboards.

I shall update the Gas Fitting FAQ to reflect these changes soon.




Ed,

Does the above mean that my new 900 mm hob which will be installed by a
CORGI gas bod cannot be connected by a flexible hose to a rigid gas pipe
to which (s)he attaches a bayonet socket after 20 November? And does
it really matter, by which I mean that in a greenfield installation a
CORGI bod would be capable of making a fully rigid connection?

its not just after that date he cannot do it anyway if it says so in the
instructions or if it is above a oven and most other circumstances.

Peter