Worcester-Bosch Hghflow 440
 

Hi,

I was looking at the SEDBUK website (http://www.sedbuk.com) and
noticed that there was a "Worcester-Bosch Greenstar Highflow 440"
boiler listed there. I telephoned W-B and they had not heard of this
product. Does anyone know whether this boiler really exists?

W.

In article , W wrote:
I was looking at the SEDBUK website (http://www.sedbuk.com) and
noticed that there was a "Worcester-Bosch Greenstar Highflow
440" boiler listed there. I telephoned W-B and they had not
heard of this product. Does anyone know whether this boiler
really exists?

If it's in the database it's because they submitted the data!

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser
http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm

On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 14:58:17 +0100, Tony Bryer
wrote:

In article , W wrote:
I was looking at the SEDBUK website (http://www.sedbuk.com) and
noticed that there was a "Worcester-Bosch Greenstar Highflow
440" boiler listed there. I telephoned W-B and they had not
heard of this product. Does anyone know whether this boiler
really exists?

If it's in the database it's because they submitted the data!

It's on their web site now. It's a shame their sales team don't know
about it!

W

"W" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 14:58:17 +0100, Tony Bryer
wrote:

In article , W wrote:
I was looking at the SEDBUK website (http://www.sedbuk.com) and
noticed that there was a "Worcester-Bosch Greenstar Highflow
440" boiler listed there. I telephoned W-B and they had not
heard of this product. Does anyone know whether this boiler
really exists?

If it's in the database it's because they submitted the data!

It's on their web site now. It's a shame their sales team don't know
about it!

The Greenstar and HighFlow are two separate models. SEDBUK got the name
wrong.

On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 09:49:43 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"W" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 14:58:17 +0100, Tony Bryer
wrote:

In article , W wrote:
I was looking at the SEDBUK website (http://www.sedbuk.com) and
noticed that there was a "Worcester-Bosch Greenstar Highflow
440" boiler listed there. I telephoned W-B and they had not
heard of this product. Does anyone know whether this boiler
really exists?

If it's in the database it's because they submitted the data!

It's on their web site now. It's a shame their sales team don't know
about it!

The Greenstar and HighFlow are two separate models. SEDBUK got the name
wrong.

No. There is a new model - see
http://www.worcester-bosch.co.uk/ind... from_id=5064

W

"W" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 09:49:43 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"W" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 14:58:17 +0100, Tony Bryer
wrote:

In article , W wrote:
I was looking at the SEDBUK website (http://www.sedbuk.com) and
noticed that there was a "Worcester-Bosch Greenstar Highflow
440" boiler listed there. I telephoned W-B and they had not
heard of this product. Does anyone know whether this boiler
really exists?

If it's in the database it's because they submitted the data!

It's on their web site now. It's a shame their sales team don't know
about it!

The Greenstar and HighFlow are two separate models. SEDBUK got the name
wrong.

No. There is a new model - see

http://www.worcester-bosch.co.uk/ind... from_id=5064

Thanks. It must have only come in within the past fews weeks. 20 litres/min.
Not bad. A condensing version of the HighFlow. They are updating their
range for next April when most boioers will have to be combi's. Expect all
makers to do the same week by week. Nice boiler.

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"W" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 09:49:43 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"W" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 14:58:17 +0100, Tony Bryer

wrote:

In article , W wrote:
I was looking at the SEDBUK website (http://www.sedbuk.com) and
noticed that there was a "Worcester-Bosch Greenstar Highflow
440" boiler listed there. I telephoned W-B and they had not
heard of this product. Does anyone know whether this boiler
really exists?

If it's in the database it's because they submitted the data!

It's on their web site now. It's a shame their sales team don't know
about it!

The Greenstar and HighFlow are two separate models. SEDBUK got the
name
wrong.

No. There is a new model - see


http://www.worcester-bosch.co.uk/ind... from_id=5064

Thanks. It must have only come in within the past fews weeks. 20
litres/min.
Not bad. A condensing version of the HighFlow. They are updating their
range for next April when most boioers will have to be combi's. Expect
all
makers to do the same week by week. Nice boiler.

It has a condensate pump, so it can be sited where a drain is not present.

On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 15:41:13 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"W" wrote in message
.. .


No. There is a new model - see

http://www.worcester-bosch.co.uk/ind... from_id=5064

Thanks. It must have only come in within the past fews weeks. 20 litres/min.
Not bad. A condensing version of the HighFlow. They are updating their
range for next April when most boioers will have to be combi's. Expect all
makers to do the same week by week. Nice boiler.


This is a 29kW model with internal heat bank for which they don't seem
to specify the size. It may do 20lpm to begin with, but not when
the heatbank is exhausted.



..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 19:41:59 +0100, Andy Hall
wrote:

On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 15:41:13 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"W" wrote in message
. ..


No. There is a new model - see

http://www.worcester-bosch.co.uk/ind... from_id=5064

Thanks. It must have only come in within the past fews weeks. 20 litres/min.
Not bad. A condensing version of the HighFlow. They are updating their
range for next April when most boioers will have to be combi's. Expect all
makers to do the same week by week. Nice boiler.


This is a 29kW model with internal heat bank for which they don't seem
to specify the size. It may do 20lpm to begin with, but not when
the heatbank is exhausted.

From the diagrams it looks very similar to the old HF 400 series.
However the marketing blurb goes on and on about the condensing
feature and hardly mentions the heatbank. I guess the heatbank is the
same size as the old boiler but they may have reduced its size to
accomodate the extra components.

W

"W" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 19:41:59 +0100, Andy Hall
wrote:

On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 15:41:13 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"W" wrote in message
. ..


No. There is a new model - see


http://www.worcester-bosch.co.uk/ind...t.detail&con_i
d=122177&from_id=5064

Thanks. It must have only come in within the past fews weeks. 20
litres/min.
Not bad. A condensing version of the HighFlow. They are updating their
range for next April when most boioers will have to be combi's. Expect
all
makers to do the same week by week. Nice boiler.


This is a 29kW model with internal heat bank for which they don't seem
to specify the size. It may do 20lpm to begin with, but not when
the heatbank is exhausted.

It then drops to 11 litres/min. Two stage. Never runs out of hot water. It
will recover within minutes.

From the diagrams it looks very similar to the old HF 400 series.
However the marketing blurb goes on and on about the condensing
feature and hardly mentions the heatbank. I guess the heatbank is the
same size as the old boiler but they may have reduced its size to
accomodate the extra components.

W

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 08:56:35 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"W" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 19:41:59 +0100, Andy Hall
wrote:


This is a 29kW model with internal heat bank for which they don't seem
to specify the size. It may do 20lpm to begin with, but not when
the heatbank is exhausted.

It then drops to 11 litres/min. Two stage. Never runs out of hot water. It
will recover within minutes.


Right. The point being that their 20lpm claim is stretching reality
a little.

From the diagrams it looks very similar to the old HF 400 series.
However the marketing blurb goes on and on about the condensing
feature and hardly mentions the heatbank. I guess the heatbank is the
same size as the old boiler but they may have reduced its size to
accomodate the extra components.

W



..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 08:56:35 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"W" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 19:41:59 +0100, Andy Hall
wrote:


This is a 29kW model with internal heat bank for which they don't seem
to specify the size. It may do 20lpm to begin with, but not when
the heatbank is exhausted.

It then drops to 11 litres/min. Two stage. Never runs out of hot water.
It
will recover within minutes.


Right. The point being that their 20lpm claim is stretching reality
a little.

No. It will do 20 litres/min and fill an average bath up at that rate
before dropping down to 11 l/min.

From the diagrams it looks very similar to the old HF 400 series.
However the marketing blurb goes on and on about the condensing
feature and hardly mentions the heatbank. I guess the heatbank is the
same size as the old boiler but they may have reduced its size to
accomodate the extra components.

W



.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 09:28:57 +0100, "IMM" wrote:




Right. The point being that their 20lpm claim is stretching reality
a little.

No. It will do 20 litres/min and fill an average bath up at that rate
before dropping down to 11 l/min.

You don't know that because they don't specify the size of the
heatbank.

There are a number of additional components crammed in there vs. the
older product.

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 09:28:57 +0100, "IMM" wrote:

Right. The point being that their 20lpm claim is stretching reality
a little.

No. It will do 20 litres/min and fill an average bath up at that rate
before dropping down to 11 l/min.

You don't know that because they don't specify the size of the
heatbank.

There are a number of additional components crammed in there vs. the
older product.

These types of combi's are designed to fill one bath pronto and a have a v
quick recovery in a matter of minutes after.

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 11:52:17 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 09:28:57 +0100, "IMM" wrote:

Right. The point being that their 20lpm claim is stretching reality
a little.

No. It will do 20 litres/min and fill an average bath up at that rate
before dropping down to 11 l/min.

You don't know that because they don't specify the size of the
heatbank.

There are a number of additional components crammed in there vs. the
older product.

These types of combi's are designed to fill one bath pronto and a have a v
quick recovery in a matter of minutes after.

Mmmm. We've had that discussion before and I don't see any point in
repeating it.


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 11:52:17 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 09:28:57 +0100, "IMM" wrote:

Right. The point being that their 20lpm claim is stretching
reality
a little.

No. It will do 20 litres/min and fill an average bath up at that rate
before dropping down to 11 l/min.

You don't know that because they don't specify the size of the
heatbank.

There are a number of additional components crammed in there vs. the
older product.

These types of combi's are designed to fill one bath pronto and a have a
v
quick recovery in a matter of minutes after.

Mmmm. We've had that discussion before and I don't see any point in
repeating it.

Exactly. You haven't a clue.

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 12:33:23 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 11:52:17 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 09:28:57 +0100, "IMM" wrote:

Right. The point being that their 20lpm claim is stretching
reality
a little.

No. It will do 20 litres/min and fill an average bath up at that rate
before dropping down to 11 l/min.

You don't know that because they don't specify the size of the
heatbank.

There are a number of additional components crammed in there vs. the
older product.

These types of combi's are designed to fill one bath pronto and a have a
v
quick recovery in a matter of minutes after.

Mmmm. We've had that discussion before and I don't see any point in
repeating it.

Exactly. You haven't a clue.

I am sure that discerning readers looking at previous threads will be
able to realise the limitations of this approach and decide for
themselves whether it affects them.


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 12:33:23 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 11:52:17 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 09:28:57 +0100, "IMM" wrote:

Right. The point being that their 20lpm claim is stretching
reality
a little.

No. It will do 20 litres/min and fill an average bath up at that
rate
before dropping down to 11 l/min.

You don't know that because they don't specify the size of the
heatbank.

There are a number of additional components crammed in there vs. the
older product.

These types of combi's are designed to fill one bath pronto and a have
a
v
quick recovery in a matter of minutes after.

Mmmm. We've had that discussion before and I don't see any point in
repeating it.

Exactly. You haven't a clue.

I am sure that discerning readers looking at previous threads will be
able to realise the limitations of this approach

What limitations? I'll answer for you. There are no limitations. For a one
bathroom home these are the business.

They are updating their range for next April when most
boioers will have to be combi's.

Can we presume that was a typo and you meant "condensing" rather than
"combi's (sic)".

Christian.

What limitations? I'll answer for you. There are no limitations. For a
one
bathroom home these are the business.

They are certainly a useful option for single bathroom homes and a
considerable improvement on a typical instantaneous combi. However, they are
not a panacea for all water heating problems.

They are have limitations. All products do. It is a case of matching the
limitations to acceptable parameters for the specific problems being
addressed.

Christian.

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
. net...
What limitations? I'll answer for you. There are no limitations. For a
one
bathroom home these are the business.

They are certainly a useful option for single bathroom homes and a
considerable improvement on a typical instantaneous combi. However, they
are
not a panacea for all water heating problems.

They are have limitations. All products do. It is a case of matching the
limitations to acceptable parameters for the specific problems being
addressed.

In perfomance, there are no limitations in a one bathroom home. The
limitations are in the size and installation suitability.

They will do a 1.5 bathroom. If you have a home that will definately have
two people showering or filing a bath at the same time then it is limited,
but it is not aimed at that market.

But, as I have previously said, I have relatives that have a two bathrooms
and have never filled both baths at the same time or have two showers been
on at the same time. The cylinder is large enough to cope with two baths and
two showers simultaneously, but never been brought into use. It would be
better for them to have a down sized cylinder with a quick recovery coil.

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
. net...
They are updating their range for next April when most
boioers will have to be combi's.

Can we presume that was a typo and you meant "condensing" rather than
"combi's (sic)".

Yep. Expect many existing regular boilers to become condensers. The old
models may be sold off cheapo. The government hasn't yet said what the
criteria is for non-condensers.

In perfomance, there are no limitations in a one bathroom home.

There are. My system is capable of 40lpm at 60C, whilst the proposed boiler
does 20lpm at 40C. I would say that this is a limitation. Perhaps one that
some would find acceptable (not me), but a limitation nonetheless.

Christian.

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
. net...
In perfomance, there are no limitations in a one bathroom home.

There are. My system is capable of 40lpm at 60C, whilst the proposed
boiler
does 20lpm at 40C. I would say that this is a limitation. Perhaps one that
some would find acceptable (not me), but a limitation nonetheless.

Unless you have drencher showers it is limited, but that is about the only
limitation. I came across one large flat in Mayfair once that had a full
commercial setup. The bath could fit 5 people and all three showers were
drenchers. All domestic setups were limited in that domestic residence. In
normal acceptance of bath & shower performance in a one bathroom house it
has no limitations.

On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 17:26:41 +0100, "IMM" wrote:

They will do a 1.5 bathroom. If you have a home that will definately have
two people showering or filing a bath at the same time then it is limited,
but it is not aimed at that market.

From the WB website:

"Application of Greenstar Highflow 440
The Worcester Greenstar Highflow 440 delivers domestic hot water at a
flow rate of 20 litres/min (4.4 gpm), making the appliance ideally
suited for use in medium to large sized family homes, incorporating up
to two bathrooms. "

- To me that means they claim it is suitable for two bathrooms and
therefore simultaneous use of both. However if it drops to 11l/min
after a short time then it is clearly not.

W

"W" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 17:26:41 +0100, "IMM" wrote:

They will do a 1.5 bathroom. If you have a
home that will definately have
two people showering or filing a bath at
the same time then it is limited,
but it is not aimed at that market.

From the WB website:

"Application of Greenstar Highflow 440
The Worcester Greenstar Highflow 440
delivers domestic hot water at a
flow rate of 20 litres/min (4.4 gpm), making
the appliance ideally suited for use in medium
to large sized family homes, incorporating up
to two bathrooms. "

- To me that means they claim it is suitable
for two bathrooms and therefore simultaneous
use of both. However if it drops to 11l/min
after a short time then it is clearly not.

It is the total time in filling two averaged sized baths that matters. It
may spurt out 20 litres/min until half full then drop to 11 litres/min for
the rest for the fill still that is not a slow bath fill in total. In all
with 2/3 to 3/4 of the bath being cold water a 100 litre bath will fill to
half full in about 2 minutes the 4 minutes for the remain half giving approx
a 6 minute bath fill filling two baths. Not bad at all.

As I previously said, If you know your family usage you don't need over
powerful equipment and large storage

They also recover in a few minutes, so if someone wants a fast full bath,
you hang on for 10 minutes and then you can fill the bath pronto too.

It is the total time in filling two averaged sized baths that matters. It
may spurt out 20 litres/min until half full then drop to 11 litres/min for
the rest for the fill still that is not a slow bath fill in total. In all
with 2/3 to 3/4 of the bath being cold water a 100 litre bath will fill to
half full in about 2 minutes the 4 minutes for the remain half giving
approx
a 6 minute bath fill filling two baths. Not bad at all.

Complete rubbish.

Assuming small 100 litre baths and that the store is designed to fill that
bath at 40C, then the total period required is the 5 minutes to fill the
first bath, plus the 11 lpm to fill the other bath, which is 9 minutes,
giving a total of 14 minutes. Your calculation breaks the law of
conservation of energy. The energy supplied to the baths must either be
stored or converted by the boiler during the period in question.

Your incorrect assumptions are
(1) Each bath would get 20lpm until half full.
- incorrect. Each bath would get 10lpm until half full.
(2) Each bath would subsequently get 11lpm until full
- incorrect. Each bath would get 5.5lpm until full.

Assuming that the bath is again a miserly 100l, this gives:
Until half full 5 minutes
Until full, a further 9 minutes.

Oh look, you get exactly the same time as my previous calculation using a
different method. It basically doesn't matter how you do the calculation, or
how you fill the baths, simultaneously or in sequence. It will still take 14
minutes to fill both simultaneously, unless you allow the store to fully
recover and don't count the time that recovery takes.

As the store is capable of providing an additional 9lpm for 5 minutes, the
boiler at full power will recover in just over 4 minutes. You could fill the
first bath in 5 minutes, wait 4 minutes for full recovery and then fill the
second bath in 5 minutes. Shock horror! That also takes 14 minutes!

What is not is dispute is that a boiler designed this way could be an
extremely useful product that would satisfy the needs of a large number of
domestic users, far more than an instantaneous combi of the same burner
power. However, fill 2 baths in 6 minutes? IT WILL NOT!

Christian.

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
. net...
It is the total time in filling two averaged sized baths that matters.
It
may spurt out 20 litres/min until half full then drop to 11 litres/min
for
the rest for the fill still that is not a slow bath fill in total. In
all
with 2/3 to 3/4 of the bath being cold water a 100 litre bath will fill
to
half full in about 2 minutes the 4 minutes for the remain half giving
approx
a 6 minute bath fill filling two baths. Not bad at all.

Complete rubbish.

I know I just looked at again. That is what you get when rushing.