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Imersion Heater Probs
All,
I am on Domestic 10 elec and so my immersion tank heats the water overnight. Yesterday I noticed that the water was cold after only a small amount had been used, I checked the fuses etc and evrything seemed OK. So, I put it down to using a little more than we thought and hoped it would be hot again this morning - its not ! So, how do I go about testing the element to see if its dead ?? I am competant with a DMM but what I am wondering is how these things normally show they are dead - will earth short to neutral / live, will the live/neutral resistance go up to infinity ?? If I can do this simple test myself I can call my electrician I *know* whats wrong rather than ask him out it tun out to be something else (like what ?!?!). Thanks in advance, N. |
Imersion Heater Probs
"NC" wrote in message news:3JT4c.187$N1.178@newsfe1-win... All, I am on Domestic 10 elec and so my immersion tank heats the water overnight. Yesterday I noticed that the water was cold after only a small amount had been used, I checked the fuses etc and evrything seemed OK. So, I put it down to using a little more than we thought and hoped it would be hot again this morning - its not ! So, how do I go about testing the element to see if its dead ?? I am competant with a DMM but what I am wondering is how these things normally show they are dead - will earth short to neutral / live, will the live/neutral resistance go up to infinity ?? If I can do this simple test myself I can call my electrician I *know* whats wrong rather than ask him out it tun out to be something else (like what ?!?!). Thanks in advance, N. Elements are very cheap and fail regularly in hard water areas. If live was shorted to earth the fuse would blow. Quite often a small amount of current will flow through the element, so a resistance test will only help if you first work out what the resistance should be, in your case you are looking for about twenty ohms across the element. If your figure is a long way up from this, then the element has failed. Turn the water off, disconnect wiring, unscrew and reverse the process to install a new one. Often not as easy as it sounds. MrCheerful |
Imersion Heater Probs
MrCheerful wrote:
"NC" wrote in message news:3JT4c.187$N1.178@newsfe1-win... All, I am on Domestic 10 elec and so my immersion tank heats the water overnight. Yesterday I noticed that the water was cold after only a small amount had been used, I checked the fuses etc and evrything seemed OK. So, I put it down to using a little more than we thought and hoped it would be hot again this morning - its not ! So, how do I go about testing the element to see if its dead ?? I am competant with a DMM but what I am wondering is how these things normally show they are dead - will earth short to neutral / live, will the live/neutral resistance go up to infinity ?? If I can do this simple test myself I can call my electrician I *know* whats wrong rather than ask him out it tun out to be something else (like what ?!?!). Thanks in advance, N. Elements are very cheap and fail regularly in hard water areas. If live was shorted to earth the fuse would blow. Quite often a small amount of current will flow through the element, so a resistance test will only help if you first work out what the resistance should be, in your case you are looking for about twenty ohms across the element. If your figure is a long way up from this, then the element has failed. Turn the water off, disconnect wiring, unscrew and reverse the process to install a new one. Often not as easy as it sounds. MrCheerful Thanks - confirms my thoughts - l/n resistance is in the region of Mega/Kilo ohms! Just my luck - rented a flat in the same block for a year - element went in there. Now bought this one and its happened again. Block is about 3/4 years old so just about expected lifetime as its very hard water - just my luck to catch them both ! Got an electrician in last time and will get same guy - I'm not confident enough since my last diy job (plumbing) had a steady leak and has ended up leaving the tiles on the kitchen floor in need of replcaing at the water seeped slowly underneath ! Wife will insist on a pro..... :( |
Imersion Heater Probs
"NC" wrote in message news:xKU4c.434$sg7.202@newsfe1-win... MrCheerful wrote: "NC" wrote in message news:3JT4c.187$N1.178@newsfe1-win... All, I am on Domestic 10 elec and so my immersion tank heats the water overnight. Yesterday I noticed that the water was cold after only a small amount had been used, I checked the fuses etc and evrything seemed OK. So, I put it down to using a little more than we thought and hoped it would be hot again this morning - its not ! So, how do I go about testing the element to see if its dead ?? I am competant with a DMM but what I am wondering is how these things normally show they are dead - will earth short to neutral / live, will the live/neutral resistance go up to infinity ?? If I can do this simple test myself I can call my electrician I *know* whats wrong rather than ask him out it tun out to be something else (like what ?!?!). Thanks in advance, N. Elements are very cheap and fail regularly in hard water areas. If live was shorted to earth the fuse would blow. Quite often a small amount of current will flow through the element, so a resistance test will only help if you first work out what the resistance should be, in your case you are looking for about twenty ohms across the element. If your figure is a long way up from this, then the element has failed. Turn the water off, disconnect wiring, unscrew and reverse the process to install a new one. Often not as easy as it sounds. MrCheerful Thanks - confirms my thoughts - l/n resistance is in the region of Mega/Kilo ohms! Just my luck - rented a flat in the same block for a year - element went in there. Now bought this one and its happened again. Block is about 3/4 years old so just about expected lifetime as its very hard water - just my luck to catch them both ! Got an electrician in last time and will get same guy - I'm not confident enough since my last diy job (plumbing) had a steady leak and has ended up leaving the tiles on the kitchen floor in need of replcaing at the water seeped slowly underneath ! Wife will insist on a pro..... :( Good, thats that sorted. Out of interest, 3 - 4 years is about average for hard water. I have a water softener, in twenty five years I have replaced the element once, and that was the one which was here before the softener. The water heater is on semi-permanently too! mrcheerful |
Imersion Heater Probs
It is worth checking the thermostat. The contacts can burn out.
-- Regards John "MrCheerful" wrote in message ... "NC" wrote in message news:xKU4c.434$sg7.202@newsfe1-win... MrCheerful wrote: "NC" wrote in message news:3JT4c.187$N1.178@newsfe1-win... All, I am on Domestic 10 elec and so my immersion tank heats the water overnight. Yesterday I noticed that the water was cold after only a small amount had been used, I checked the fuses etc and evrything seemed OK. So, I put it down to using a little more than we thought and hoped it would be hot again this morning - its not ! So, how do I go about testing the element to see if its dead ?? I am competant with a DMM but what I am wondering is how these things normally show they are dead - will earth short to neutral / live, will the live/neutral resistance go up to infinity ?? If I can do this simple test myself I can call my electrician I *know* whats wrong rather than ask him out it tun out to be something else (like what ?!?!). Thanks in advance, N. Elements are very cheap and fail regularly in hard water areas. If live was shorted to earth the fuse would blow. Quite often a small amount of current will flow through the element, so a resistance test will only help if you first work out what the resistance should be, in your case you are looking for about twenty ohms across the element. If your figure is a long way up from this, then the element has failed. Turn the water off, disconnect wiring, unscrew and reverse the process to install a new one. Often not as easy as it sounds. MrCheerful Thanks - confirms my thoughts - l/n resistance is in the region of Mega/Kilo ohms! Just my luck - rented a flat in the same block for a year - element went in there. Now bought this one and its happened again. Block is about 3/4 years old so just about expected lifetime as its very hard water - just my luck to catch them both ! Got an electrician in last time and will get same guy - I'm not confident enough since my last diy job (plumbing) had a steady leak and has ended up leaving the tiles on the kitchen floor in need of replcaing at the water seeped slowly underneath ! Wife will insist on a pro..... :( Good, thats that sorted. Out of interest, 3 - 4 years is about average for hard water. I have a water softener, in twenty five years I have replaced the element once, and that was the one which was here before the softener. The water heater is on semi-permanently too! mrcheerful --- All of my outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.618 / Virus Database: 397 - Release Date: 09/03/2004 |
Imersion Heater Probs
"MrCheerful" wrote in message ... Good, thats that sorted. Out of interest, 3 - 4 years is about average for hard water. I have a water softener, in twenty five years I have replaced the element once, and that was the one which was here before the softener. The water heater is on semi-permanently too! Yes, just replaced the immersion in a property yesterday- 4 yrs since the last one replaced. Had to call plumber in the end because I couldnt shift it, and was at stage of nearly twisting the boss off the top of the cylinder. Much blow lamp and it eventually came free, but we did crack the solder join where boss meets cylinder and were lucky it soldered up and sealed with new element in place. Cylinder will have to be changed next time element goes. Tim.. |
Imersion Heater Probs
"MrCheerful" wrote in message
... "NC" wrote in message news:xKU4c.434$sg7.202@newsfe1-win... MrCheerful wrote: "NC" wrote in message news:3JT4c.187$N1.178@newsfe1-win... All, I am on Domestic 10 elec and so my immersion tank heats the water overnight. Yesterday I noticed that the water was cold after only a small amount had been used, I checked the fuses etc and evrything seemed OK. So, I put it down to using a little more than we thought and hoped it would be hot again this morning - its not ! So, how do I go about testing the element to see if its dead ?? I am competant with a DMM but what I am wondering is how these things normally show they are dead - will earth short to neutral / live, will the live/neutral resistance go up to infinity ?? If I can do this simple test myself I can call my electrician I *know* whats wrong rather than ask him out it tun out to be something else (like what ?!?!). Thanks in advance, N. Elements are very cheap and fail regularly in hard water areas. If live was shorted to earth the fuse would blow. Quite often a small amount of current will flow through the element, so a resistance test will only help if you first work out what the resistance should be, in your case you are looking for about twenty ohms across the element. If your figure is a long way up from this, then the element has failed. Turn the water off, disconnect wiring, unscrew and reverse the process to install a new one. Often not as easy as it sounds. MrCheerful Thanks - confirms my thoughts - l/n resistance is in the region of Mega/Kilo ohms! Just my luck - rented a flat in the same block for a year - element went in there. Now bought this one and its happened again. Block is about 3/4 years old so just about expected lifetime as its very hard water - just my luck to catch them both ! Some immersion heaters are specifically designed for hard (aggressive?) water: See http://www.bes.ltd.uk/nav_graf/frames_cat.htm Michael Chare |
Imersion Heater Probs
"Michael Chare" wrote in message ... "MrCheerful" wrote in message ... "NC" wrote in message news:xKU4c.434$sg7.202@newsfe1-win... MrCheerful wrote: "NC" wrote in message news:3JT4c.187$N1.178@newsfe1-win... All, I am on Domestic 10 elec and so my immersion tank heats the water overnight. Yesterday I noticed that the water was cold after only a small amount had been used, I checked the fuses etc and evrything seemed OK. So, I put it down to using a little more than we thought and hoped it would be hot again this morning - its not ! So, how do I go about testing the element to see if its dead ?? I am competant with a DMM but what I am wondering is how these things normally show they are dead - will earth short to neutral / live, will the live/neutral resistance go up to infinity ?? If I can do this simple test myself I can call my electrician I *know* whats wrong rather than ask him out it tun out to be something else (like what ?!?!). Thanks in advance, N. Elements are very cheap and fail regularly in hard water areas. If live was shorted to earth the fuse would blow. Quite often a small amount of current will flow through the element, so a resistance test will only help if you first work out what the resistance should be, in your case you are looking for about twenty ohms across the element. If your figure is a long way up from this, then the element has failed. Turn the water off, disconnect wiring, unscrew and reverse the process to install a new one. Often not as easy as it sounds. MrCheerful Thanks - confirms my thoughts - l/n resistance is in the region of Mega/Kilo ohms! Just my luck - rented a flat in the same block for a year - element went in there. Now bought this one and its happened again. Block is about 3/4 years old so just about expected lifetime as its very hard water - just my luck to catch them both ! Some immersion heaters are specifically designed for hard (aggressive?) water: See http://www.bes.ltd.uk/nav_graf/frames_cat.htm Well the one we just fitted was a Backer all singing all dancing stainless steel sheathed jobby[1], which ought to last a fair while, but i bet it doesn't. (water is v hard- blame 7 trent) [1] = £££££ Tim.. |
Imersion Heater Probs
"NC" wrote in message news:xKU4c.434$sg7.202@newsfe1-win... MrCheerful wrote: "NC" wrote in message news:3JT4c.187$N1.178@newsfe1-win... SNIP Elements are very cheap and fail regularly in hard water areas. If live was shorted to earth the fuse would blow. Quite often a small amount of current will flow through the element, so a resistance test will only help if you first work out what the resistance should be, in your case you are looking for about twenty ohms across the element. If your figure is a long way up from this, then the element has failed. Turn the water off, disconnect wiring, unscrew and reverse the process to install a new one. Often not as easy as it sounds. MrCheerful Thanks - confirms my thoughts - l/n resistance is in the region of Mega/Kilo ohms! Just my luck - rented a flat in the same block for a year - element went in there. Now bought this one and its happened again. Block is about 3/4 years old so just about expected lifetime as its very hard water - just my luck to catch them both ! Got an electrician in last time and will get same guy - I'm not confident enough since my last diy job (plumbing) had a steady leak and has ended up leaving the tiles on the kitchen floor in need of replcaing at the water seeped slowly underneath ! Wife will insist on a pro..... :( If you have really hard water you could expect failure in much less - in our area a standard element providing all the hot water for a family will fail in just over a year (just out of guarantee:-( ). Insist on one of the aggressive water types such as (Incaloy, Backerloy , Aqualoy etc) depending on make when it is replaced. They only cost about fifteen quid from plumb centre rather than the usual seven or eight but last about four times as long. Also ensure your thermostat is set at a sensible level not screwed right up to minimise the duty times it operates. 60 degrees at the bottom of a standard cylinder will give much higher temperatures at the top anyway, unles you have a destratification pump (rare in domestics) |
Imersion Heater Probs
In article 3JT4c.187$N1.178@newsfe1-win,
NC wrote: So, how do I go about testing the element to see if its dead ?? I am competant with a DMM but what I am wondering is how these things normally show they are dead - will earth short to neutral / live, will the live/neutral resistance go up to infinity ?? The nominal resistance of a 3kW immersion is about 20 ohms. If it has failed, this reading will be very much higher - how high depends on whether the outer has failed letting in water. In bad cases, you might have a near short - enough to take the fuse or breaker. -- *When the chips are down, the buffalo is empty. Dave Plowman London SW 12 RIP Acorn |
Imersion Heater Probs
"Dave Plowman" wrote in message ... In article 3JT4c.187$N1.178@newsfe1-win, NC wrote: So, how do I go about testing the element to see if its dead ?? I am competant with a DMM but what I am wondering is how these things normally show they are dead - will earth short to neutral / live, will the live/neutral resistance go up to infinity ?? The nominal resistance of a 3kW immersion is about 20 ohms. If it has failed, this reading will be very much higher - how high depends on whether the outer has failed letting in water. In bad cases, you might have a near short - enough to take the fuse or breaker. In all the cases i've known when the element fails through corrosion- the outter sheath is penetrated down to the actual heating coil- water floods in, then it takes out the RCD because of the leakage (well dead short almost) from live to earth. Tim.. |
Imersion Heater Probs
"MrCheerful" wrote in message news:GnV4c.16150
Good, thats that sorted. Out of interest, 3 - 4 years is about average for hard water. I have a water softener, in twenty five years I have replaced the element once, and that was the one which was here before the softener. The water heater is on semi-permanently too! May seem like a silly question, but is 3-4 years normal even when the immersion heater is not used?, (ours is a backup for the gas boiler which heats the tank by indirect coil). |
Imersion Heater Probs
John wrote:
"NC" wrote in message news:xKU4c.434$sg7.202@newsfe1-win... MrCheerful wrote: "NC" wrote in message news:3JT4c.187$N1.178@newsfe1-win... SNIP Elements are very cheap and fail regularly in hard water areas. If live was shorted to earth the fuse would blow. Quite often a small amount of current will flow through the element, so a resistance test will only help if you first work out what the resistance should be, in your case you are looking for about twenty ohms across the element. If your figure is a long way up from this, then the element has failed. Turn the water off, disconnect wiring, unscrew and reverse the process to install a new one. Often not as easy as it sounds. MrCheerful Thanks - confirms my thoughts - l/n resistance is in the region of Mega/Kilo ohms! Just my luck - rented a flat in the same block for a year - element went in there. Now bought this one and its happened again. Block is about 3/4 years old so just about expected lifetime as its very hard water - just my luck to catch them both ! Got an electrician in last time and will get same guy - I'm not confident enough since my last diy job (plumbing) had a steady leak and has ended up leaving the tiles on the kitchen floor in need of replcaing at the water seeped slowly underneath ! Wife will insist on a pro..... :( If you have really hard water you could expect failure in much less - in our area a standard element providing all the hot water for a family will fail in just over a year (just out of guarantee:-( ). Insist on one of the aggressive water types such as (Incaloy, Backerloy , Aqualoy etc) depending on make when it is replaced. They only cost about fifteen quid from plumb centre rather than the usual seven or eight but last about four times as long. Also ensure your thermostat is set at a sensible level not screwed right up to minimise the duty times it operates. 60 degrees at the bottom of a standard cylinder will give much higher temperatures at the top anyway, unles you have a destratification pump (rare in domestics) Thanks for advice - currently waiting for my electrician to get in touch when he's back from hols - until then its the shower, and kettle for washing up ! |
Imersion Heater Probs
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Imersion Heater Probs
On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 19:53:54 -0800, Mike Hall wrote:
"MrCheerful" wrote in message news:GnV4c.16150 Good, thats that sorted. Out of interest, 3 - 4 years is about average for hard water. I have a water softener, in twenty five years I have replaced the element once, and that was the one which was here before the softener. The water heater is on semi-permanently too! May seem like a silly question, but is 3-4 years normal even when the immersion heater is not used?, (ours is a backup for the gas boiler which heats the tank by indirect coil). I would have thought you should get longer than that. Water is some areas can be quite corrosive and you may find that paying slightly more for a corrosion 'resistant' unit will be worthwhile. -- Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter. The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html |
Imersion Heater Probs
In article ,
Mike Hall wrote: May seem like a silly question, but is 3-4 years normal even when the immersion heater is not used?, (ours is a backup for the gas boiler which heats the tank by indirect coil). Mine didn't work after about 10 years or so - apart from a test when installed. Can't say when it *actually* failed though. I replaced it with a stainless one and do check it occasionally now. -- *Laugh alone and the world thinks you're an idiot. Dave Plowman London SW 12 RIP Acorn |
Imersion Heater Probs
"Ed Sirett" wrote in message n.co.uk... On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 19:53:54 -0800, Mike Hall wrote: "MrCheerful" wrote in message news:GnV4c.16150 Good, thats that sorted. Out of interest, 3 - 4 years is about average for hard water. I have a water softener, in twenty five years I have replaced the element once, and that was the one which was here before the softener. The water heater is on semi-permanently too! May seem like a silly question, but is 3-4 years normal even when the immersion heater is not used?, (ours is a backup for the gas boiler which heats the tank by indirect coil). I would have thought you should get longer than that. Water is some areas can be quite corrosive and you may find that paying slightly more for a corrosion 'resistant' unit will be worthwhile. Both Dave P and I did specify in our previous posts that we have and always have had the corrosion proof elements, but they still 'wear out' in 3-4 yrs. A standard one probably would only last 12months..... Tim.. |
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