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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
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Escape from a locked car
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-derbyshire-57335740 A vet has drowned in her car. Astonishingly in my car there appears no way to get out from inside if it is locked and/or the electrics are off. Apparently the answer is to have a device to break the side door glass. I was looking at: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Wupettier-Portable-Window-Breaker-Seatbelt/dp/B08MFBZ2GV/ref=psdc_2481712031_t1_B08XNRVC3G or https://www.amazon.co.uk/AmazonBasics-Emergency-Cutter-Window-Hammer/dp/B073J92G1J/ref=psdc_2481712031_t3_B00K63TG9C Do they work?, my gut feeling is the hammer would be best. |
#2
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Escape from a locked car
"Pancho" wrote in message
... https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-derbyshire-57335740 A vet has drowned in her car. Astonishingly in my car there appears no way to get out from inside if it is locked and/or the electrics are off. Apparently the answer is to have a device to break the side door glass. I was looking at: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Wupettier-Portable-Window-Breaker-Seatbelt/dp/B08MFBZ2GV/ref=psdc_2481712031_t1_B08XNRVC3G or https://www.amazon.co.uk/AmazonBasics-Emergency-Cutter-Window-Hammer/dp/B073J92G1J/ref=psdc_2481712031_t3_B00K63TG9C Do they work?, my gut feeling is the hammer would be best. When I bought a USB charger to fit in my car's 12V socket between the seats, I chose one which was advertised as having a pointed end, designed to break a window if you got trapped inside a locked car. The trick with breaking a window is to strike it near the *corner* of the glass, not in the middle as you might do instinctively. I imagine that a side window (usually just heat-tempered glass) is a lot easier to break than a windscreen (usually laminated). I hadn't realised that some cars need an electrical supply to unlock the car from inside. I thought they always used a mechanical release from the inside door handle, with that mechanism being disabled only when the car is deadlocked. In the case of this tragic case of the vet (I was just reading the story before I saw this posting) it is possible that the doors weren't locked, but the pressure of water from outside made it impossible to open them. Mind you, the electric windows wouldn't work without power, and if I became stuck in deep water, I'd leave the doors closed and open a window to escape. Luckily my phone has a GPS app (GPS Status, by Eclipsim) which can give my location (either lat/long or OS grid ref) so I can read that out to the emergency services. |
#3
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Escape from a locked car
On 03/06/2021 12:39, Pancho wrote:
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-derbyshire-57335740 A vet has drowned in her car. Astonishingly in my car there appears no way to get out from inside if it is locked and/or the electrics are off. Apparently the answer is to have a device to break the side door glass. I was looking at: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Wupettier-Portable-Window-Breaker-Seatbelt/dp/B08MFBZ2GV/ref=psdc_2481712031_t1_B08XNRVC3G or https://www.amazon.co.uk/AmazonBasics-Emergency-Cutter-Window-Hammer/dp/B073J92G1J/ref=psdc_2481712031_t3_B00K63TG9C Do they work?, my gut feeling is the hammer would be best. **** of my acquaintance drowned his XF jag. recovered, battery flat, couldn't unlock, emergency key didn't work either. not even to open the boot...where the battery is! -- In todays liberal progressive conflict-free education system, everyone gets full Marx. |
#4
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Escape from a locked car
On 03/06/2021 12:39, Pancho wrote:
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-derbyshire-57335740 A vet has drowned in her car. "When she called emergency services, she told the call handler she could not get out of the black Honda Civic, could not see, and said: "I am sinking". No indication that it was in fact *locked*... Astonishingly in my car there appears no way to get out from inside if it is locked and/or the electrics are off. Are you sure? most cars have mechanicall override on electrical locks -- "When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." Jonathan Swift. |
#5
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Escape from a locked car
On 03/06/2021 13:07, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Thu, 03 Jun 2021 12:39:13 +0100, Pancho wrote: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-derbyshire-57335740 A vet has drowned in her car. Astonishingly in my car there appears no way to get out from inside if it is locked and/or the electrics are off. Apparently the answer is to have a device to break the side door glass. I was looking at: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Wupettier-P...r-Seatbelt/dp/ B08MFBZ2GV/ref=psdc_2481712031_t1_B08XNRVC3G or https://www.amazon.co.uk/AmazonBasic...Window-Hammer/ dp/B073J92G1J/ref=psdc_2481712031_t3_B00K63TG9C Do they work?, my gut feeling is the hammer would be best. Irrespective of that, escaping from a submerged (or submerging) car isn't a walk in the park. It may well be that the driver could have perished with the windows broken anyway. The stock advice is to open the windows as soon as you are in a flood. then if you cant open the doors wait until the water is inside the car to the same level as outside THEN you can open the door Of course the doors may not have been locked, or they may have been damaged -- Its easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. Mark Twain |
#6
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Escape from a locked car
On Thu, 3 Jun 2021 13:06:06 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote: On 03/06/2021 12:39, Pancho wrote: [snip] **** of my acquaintance drowned his XF jag. recovered, battery flat, couldn't unlock, emergency key didn't work either. not even to open the boot...where the battery is! I'm surprised there's no mechanical key opening on the boot on the XF. I've owned a 2000 S-Type and a 2003 XJ (X350) and both had mechanical key-operated boot locks that could be used to open the boot if the electrical opening failed for some reason. You do need to look carefully though, as the hole for the key is small and tucked away so it may not be immediately obvious. |
#7
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Escape from a locked car
On 03/06/2021 12:56, NY wrote:
"Pancho" wrote in message ... https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-derbyshire-57335740 A vet has drowned in her car. Astonishingly in my car there appears no way to get out from inside if it is locked and/or the electrics are off. Apparently the answer is to have a device to break the side door glass. I was looking at: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Wupettier-Portable-Window-Breaker-Seatbelt/dp/B08MFBZ2GV/ref=psdc_2481712031_t1_B08XNRVC3G or https://www.amazon.co.uk/AmazonBasics-Emergency-Cutter-Window-Hammer/dp/B073J92G1J/ref=psdc_2481712031_t3_B00K63TG9C Do they work?, my gut feeling is the hammer would be best. When I bought a USB charger to fit in my car's 12V socket between the seats, I chose one which was advertised as having a pointed end, designed to break a window if you got trapped inside a locked car. The trick with breaking a window is to strike it near the *corner* of the glass, not in the middle as you might do instinctively. I imagine that a side window (usually just heat-tempered glass) is a lot easier to break than a windscreen (usually laminated). I hadn't realised that some cars need an electrical supply to unlock the car from inside. I thought they always used a mechanical release from the inside door handle, with that mechanism being disabled only when the car is deadlocked. In the case of this tragic case of the vet (I was just reading the story before I saw this posting) it is possible that the doors weren't locked, but the pressure of water from outside made it impossible to open them. Mind you, the electric windows wouldn't work without power, and if I became stuck in deep water, I'd leave the doors closed and open a window to escape. Luckily my phone has a GPS app (GPS Status, by Eclipsim) which can give my location (either lat/long or OS grid ref) so I can read that out to the emergency services. I would recommend what3words for those circumstances. As an aside it also integrates with SatNavs for those difficult places to find. |
#8
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Escape from a locked car
Jethro_uk wrote:
Irrespective of that, escaping from a submerged (or submerging) car isn't a walk in the park. It may well be that the driver could have perished with the windows broken anyway. How easy is it to smash a window with many tonnes of water on the other side? I would have expected it would absorb some of the shock from hitting it with a hard thing. Theo |
#9
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Escape from a locked car
Caecilius wrote :
I'm surprised there's no mechanical key opening on the boot on the XF. I've owned a 2000 S-Type and a 2003 XJ (X350) and both had mechanical key-operated boot locks that could be used to open the boot if the electrical opening failed for some reason. My car has no means to open the boot, on the boot itself. There is a button by the driver's shin, or the remote works. If both fail, then you have to lower the rear seat back, then crawl through to pull an emergency release from inside. I don't know how you would manage that, with a full boot. |
#10
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Escape from a locked car
It happens that The Natural Philosopher formulated :
THEN you can open the door Of course the doors may not have been locked, or they may have been damaged The crash detector puts the hazards on and unlocks the doors. |
#11
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Escape from a locked car
On 03/06/2021 14:04, Theo wrote:
Jethro_uk wrote: Irrespective of that, escaping from a submerged (or submerging) car isn't a walk in the park. It may well be that the driver could have perished with the windows broken anyway. How easy is it to smash a window with many tonnes of water on the other side? I would have expected it would absorb some of the shock from hitting it with a hard thing. That's why it's recommended to wind down or smash a window whilst still floating. |
#12
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Escape from a locked car
On 03/06/2021 12:39, Pancho wrote:
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-derbyshire-57335740 A vet has drowned in her car. Astonishingly in my car there appears no way to get out from inside if it is locked and/or the electrics are off. Apparently the answer is to have a device to break the side door glass. I was looking at: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Wupettier-Portable-Window-Breaker-Seatbelt/dp/B08MFBZ2GV/ref=psdc_2481712031_t1_B08XNRVC3G or https://www.amazon.co.uk/AmazonBasics-Emergency-Cutter-Window-Hammer/dp/B073J92G1J/ref=psdc_2481712031_t3_B00K63TG9C Do they work?, my gut feeling is the hammer would be best. Automatic centre-punch? It's the preferred choice of many thieves. |
#13
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Escape from a locked car
On 03/06/2021 16:41, Steve Walker wrote:
On 03/06/2021 12:39, Pancho wrote: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-derbyshire-57335740 A vet has drowned in her car. Astonishingly in my car there appears no way to get out from inside if it is locked and/or the electrics are off. Apparently the answer is to have a device to break the side door glass. I was looking at: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Wupettier-Portable-Window-Breaker-Seatbelt/dp/B08MFBZ2GV/ref=psdc_2481712031_t1_B08XNRVC3G A friend of mine has one of these. or https://www.amazon.co.uk/AmazonBasics-Emergency-Cutter-Window-Hammer/dp/B073J92G1J/ref=psdc_2481712031_t3_B00K63TG9C Do they work?, my gut feeling is the hammer would be best. Automatic centre-punch? It's the preferred choice of many thieves. Keep it simple. Assuming you can swing the thing yes. Being RHD and right handed I don't know how much force I would have. I also prefer the seat-belt cutter with a pull action, rather than 'push'. |
#14
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Escape from a locked car
On 03/06/2021 13:38, Fredxx wrote:
On 03/06/2021 12:56, NY wrote: .... Luckily my phone has a GPS app (GPS Status, by Eclipsim) which can give my location (either lat/long or OS grid ref) so I can read that out to the emergency services. I would recommend what3words for those circumstances. As an aside it also integrates with SatNavs for those difficult places to find. Although it appears it is not infallible: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-57156797 -- Colin Bignell |
#15
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Escape from a locked car
On 03/06/2021 16:48, Fredxx wrote:
On 03/06/2021 16:41, Steve Walker wrote: ..... Automatic centre-punch? It's the preferred choice of many thieves. Keep it simple. Assuming you can swing the thing yes. Why would you need to swing it? You simply push on the end and, when you reach the pre-set loading, the punch is fired forward with enough force to indent steel. Being RHD and right handed I don't know how much force I would have. I also prefer the seat-belt cutter with a pull action, rather than 'push'. -- Colin Bignell |
#16
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Escape from a locked car
On 03/06/2021 16:59, nightjar wrote:
On 03/06/2021 16:48, Fredxx wrote: On 03/06/2021 16:41, Steve Walker wrote: .... Automatic centre-punch? It's the preferred choice of many thieves. Keep it simple. Assuming you can swing the thing yes. Why would you need to swing it? You simply push on the end and, when you reach the pre-set loading, the punch is fired forward with enough force to indent steel. Being RHD and right handed I don't know how much force I would have. I also prefer the seat-belt cutter with a pull action, rather than 'push'. Sorry, I got the two links mixed up. The one my friend has is the hammer type. The punch one looks nice, except you don't know how much pressure you need to make the punch operate, and I don't like the push-cutter. |
#17
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Escape from a locked car
On 03/06/2021 16:48, Fredxx wrote:
On 03/06/2021 16:41, Steve Walker wrote: On 03/06/2021 12:39, Pancho wrote: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-derbyshire-57335740 A vet has drowned in her car. Astonishingly in my car there appears no way to get out from inside if it is locked and/or the electrics are off. Apparently the answer is to have a device to break the side door glass. I was looking at: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Wupettier-Portable-Window-Breaker-Seatbelt/dp/B08MFBZ2GV/ref=psdc_2481712031_t1_B08XNRVC3G A friend of mine has one of these. or https://www.amazon.co.uk/AmazonBasics-Emergency-Cutter-Window-Hammer/dp/B073J92G1J/ref=psdc_2481712031_t3_B00K63TG9C Do they work?, my gut feeling is the hammer would be best. Automatic centre-punch? It's the preferred choice of many thieves. Keep it simple. Assuming you can swing the thing yes. Being RHD and right handed I don't know how much force I would have. I also prefer the seat-belt cutter with a pull action, rather than 'push'. https://www.toolstation.com/automati...e-punch/p29430 You place the tip on a the glass (in normal use, on metal) and push. The body moves down around 1/4" and then the stored energy is released into the tip - hard enough to indent steel and more than enough to shatter toughened glass. |
#18
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Escape from a locked car
On 03/06/2021 16:53, nightjar wrote:
On 03/06/2021 13:38, Fredxx wrote: On 03/06/2021 12:56, NY wrote: ... Luckily my phone has a GPS app (GPS Status, by Eclipsim) which can give my location (either lat/long or OS grid ref) so I can read that out to the emergency services. I would recommend what3words for those circumstances. As an aside it also integrates with SatNavs for those difficult places to find. Although it appears it is not infallible: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-57156797 The idea is that a simple misspelling of one of the words will be obvious. If the words suggest a different country then you ask again until it's consistent with the known area / land features. Whereas one digit error in a lat/long or OS ref can mean you're in the right area but still be an unknown distance away. |
#19
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Escape from a locked car
On 03/06/2021 12:39, Pancho wrote:
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-derbyshire-57335740 A vet has drowned in her car. Astonishingly in my car there appears no way to get out from inside if it is locked and/or the electrics are off. Apparently the answer is to have a device to break the side door glass. I was looking at: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Wupettier-Portable-Window-Breaker-Seatbelt/dp/B08MFBZ2GV/ref=psdc_2481712031_t1_B08XNRVC3G or https://www.amazon.co.uk/AmazonBasics-Emergency-Cutter-Window-Hammer/dp/B073J92G1J/ref=psdc_2481712031_t3_B00K63TG9C Do they work?, my gut feeling is the hammer would be best. I don't know if they work, but the one I got some years ago looks identical to the second of these. It fits neatly on the floor near the back of the footwell. It also looks similar to the hammers that used to be provided on many trains and long-distance buses, so I guess the transport authorities tested them at some point. My wife was not entirely persuaded that this was something we ought to have, but they don't cost much. Since most modern cars lock the doors automatically when you start moving and have electric windows, if you didn't realise that you were in a flood until after the battery stopped being able to power the locks and windows, you could just possibly find that smashing a window was the only way out. Having read the story too, I suspect this unfortunate vet might have been a victim of a satnav: the road seems a really tiny lane barely wide enough for one car not leading anywhere much but could perhaps have been chosen as a short-cut by a badly programmed sat-nav unit. I wish that satnavs had an option to specify "don't take stupid short-cuts to save a few seconds of time". -- Clive Page |
#20
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Escape from a locked car
"Fredxx" wrote in message ... On 03/06/2021 16:59, nightjar wrote: On 03/06/2021 16:48, Fredxx wrote: On 03/06/2021 16:41, Steve Walker wrote: .... Automatic centre-punch? It's the preferred choice of many thieves. Keep it simple. Assuming you can swing the thing yes. Why would you need to swing it? You simply push on the end and, when you reach the pre-set loading, the punch is fired forward with enough force to indent steel. Being RHD and right handed I don't know how much force I would have. I also prefer the seat-belt cutter with a pull action, rather than 'push'. Sorry, I got the two links mixed up. The one my friend has is the hammer type. The punch one looks nice, except you don't know how much pressure you need to make the punch operate, The best ones are adjustable. Mine is. and I don't like the push-cutter. |
#21
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Escape from a locked car
On 03/06/2021 17:04, Fredxx wrote:
On 03/06/2021 16:59, nightjar wrote: On 03/06/2021 16:48, Fredxx wrote: On 03/06/2021 16:41, Steve Walker wrote: .... Automatic centre-punch? It's the preferred choice of many thieves. Keep it simple. Assuming you can swing the thing yes. Why would you need to swing it? You simply push on the end and, when you reach the pre-set loading, the punch is fired forward with enough force to indent steel. Being RHD and right handed I don't know how much force I would have. I also prefer the seat-belt cutter with a pull action, rather than 'push'. Sorry, I got the two links mixed up. The one my friend has is the hammer type. The punch one looks nice, except you don't know how much pressure you need to make the punch operate, You adjust the knob on the end to whatever suits you. Given the application, I suggest that should be the highest you can manage. IIRC, the Moore and Wright one was adjustable from 0.5lb (just marks brass) to 9lb (nice indentation on steel). and I don't like the push-cutter. -- Colin Bignell |
#22
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Lonely Obnoxious Cantankerous Auto-contradicting Senile Ozzie Troll Alert!
On Fri, 4 Jun 2021 03:49:54 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again: FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread -- Bill Wright addressing senile Ozzie cretin Rodent Speed: "Well you make up a lot of stuff and it's total ******** most of it." MID: |
#23
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Lonely Obnoxious Cantankerous Auto-contradicting Senile OzzieTroll Alert!
On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 7:58:21 PM UTC+1, Peeler wrote:
On Fri, 4 Jun 2021 03:49:54 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again: FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread -- Bill Wright addressing senile Ozzie cretin Rodent Speed: "Well you make up a lot of stuff and it's total ******** most of it." MID: Top Gear covered the escape from a car in water. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-hADcZ49fE Dont bother with waiting for windows, even with a diver in the back of the car, just open the door as quick as you can |
#24
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Escape from a locked car
On 03/06/2021 13:37, Caecilius wrote:
On Thu, 3 Jun 2021 13:06:06 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote: On 03/06/2021 12:39, Pancho wrote: [snip] **** of my acquaintance drowned his XF jag. recovered, battery flat, couldn't unlock, emergency key didn't work either. not even to open the boot...where the battery is! I'm surprised there's no mechanical key opening on the boot on the XF. I've owned a 2000 S-Type and a 2003 XJ (X350) and both had mechanical key-operated boot locks that could be used to open the boot if the electrical opening failed for some reason. I have remembered that he had lost the fob that HAD the emergency key and not bothered to get a spare key cut from it., he had a blank key in it! You do need to look carefully though, as the hole for the key is small and tucked away so it may not be immediately obvious. I know where it is on mine :-) And BOTH my fobs have keys and both now work -- Microsoft : the best reason to go to Linux that ever existed. |
#25
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Escape from a locked car
On Thu, 03 Jun 2021 13:38:46 +0100, Fredxx wrote:
I would recommend what3words for those circumstances. As an aside it also integrates with SatNavs for those difficult places to find. Lots of discussions about the problems inherent in what3words. -- My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message. Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org *lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor |
#26
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Escape from a locked car
On Thu, 03 Jun 2021 17:08:28 +0100, Fredxx wrote:
I would recommend what3words for those circumstances. As an aside it also integrates with SatNavs for those difficult places to find. Although it appears it is not infallible: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-57156797 The idea is that a simple misspelling of one of the words will be obvious. If the words suggest a different country then you ask again until it's consistent with the known area / land features. I've seen at least one example where the two locations were close enough to be plausible, but far enough away to be dangerous. -- My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message. Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org *lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor |
#27
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Escape from a locked car
On 03/06/2021 17:10, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Thu, 03 Jun 2021 14:23:44 +0100, Harry Bloomfield, Esq. wrote: It happens that The Natural Philosopher formulated : THEN you can open the door Of course the doors may not have been locked, or they may have been damaged The crash detector puts the hazards on and unlocks the doors. Except it's not just about having an exit ... you can end up horribly disoriented and simply unable to find the way up. Bearing in mind quite apart from the shock and possible unpreparedness (meaning you didn't stock up on precious air before you sunk) you will be panicking anyway. And that's *before* you start to react to the build up of CO2 that could make you frenzied. I am not saying its a low hazard situation. There was nurse who disappeared one night. Just vanished. about ten years latrer they found her volvo in a lake, on a bend on te A10 just north of Cambridge. She has simply gone straight on, missed the chevrons and ended up under 10 ft of water., Probably asleep at the wheel - end of a long shift at Addenbrookes. This was Volvo 240 period IIRC - no electric locks It's bloody hard to get out of a car under water and the real advice is that your bests chance is to wind the windows down before it sinks. if you can and then once its sunk open the doors or climb out the windows. OK ArtStudents are going to die,. because naturally they shut the windows to keep the water out... The always watchable "Mythbusters" looked at escaping a submerged car (twice !) and the takeaway message was it was waaaaaaaaaaaaay harder and scarier than you may have thought. Which - given they were doing it in almost lab conditions - isn't a great hope if it happens to you in the dark, on a lonely road when you least expected it. I agree. several people a year die on the Cambridge drains - its bloody scary driving out in the middle of the fens with a deep drain - like 30 foot wide and 15ft deep - alongside the road and no barriers at all... /data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sRRBn8Gy0QuClyp4FKDW1sw!2e0!7i1 3312!8i6656 -- The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false face for the urge to rule it. H. L. Mencken |
#28
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Escape from a locked car
On Thu, 03 Jun 2021 19:56:36 +0000, Bob Eager wrote:
On Thu, 03 Jun 2021 17:08:28 +0100, Fredxx wrote: I would recommend what3words for those circumstances. As an aside it also integrates with SatNavs for those difficult places to find. Although it appears it is not infallible: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-57156797 The idea is that a simple misspelling of one of the words will be obvious. If the words suggest a different country then you ask again until it's consistent with the known area / land features. I've seen at least one example where the two locations were close enough to be plausible, but far enough away to be dangerous. Try: ///ashes.string.take and ///ashes.string.takes 9 miles apart -- My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message. Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org *lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor |
#29
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Escape from a locked car
"Bob Eager" wrote in message
... On Thu, 03 Jun 2021 13:38:46 +0100, Fredxx wrote: I would recommend what3words for those circumstances. As an aside it also integrates with SatNavs for those difficult places to find. Lots of discussions about the problems inherent in what3words. W3W is a great idea, but badly implemented. You'd think that they would deliberately avoid using both singulars and plurals, or words that sound similar to each other. The satnav in our Honda (using Garmin software) has an emergency mode which gives both a latitude and longitude and a description in words of the form "On A64, near the junction with the Scotchman Lane". All these methods of communicating your location depend on one key thing: the emergency operator being able to make use of your location and not asking for stupid information. When the "M1 A 123.4" emergency location signs began to be erected on motorways and trunk roads (around 2008), I happened to see an accident on the opposite carriageway. Other people had stopped, but just in case no-one had phoned it in, I rang from my mobile (on hands free). I said something like "Accident on northbound B carriageway of M1. I'm travelling south on the A carriageway. I've just passed sign "M1 A 123.4", and the accident is on the opposite, B carriageway about 1 km north of the sign I've just given you". I was asked for the postcode of the address - FFS, random locations on motorways don't have postcodes. What junction had I just passed? No idea: I was in the middle of a long journey and all I needed to know was which junction I had to leave at, which was a long way off. I was a bit exasperated as I pointed out that the emergency signs were there for giving locations in an emergency and yet this person didn't know what to do with the information. I offered to stop at a 100-metre post on the hard shoulder and read out that information - those have been around for a lot longer, so maybe their software would know what to do with that info. "Don't bother," I was told. "My system wouldn't know what to do with that information either." I do hope someone had already called in the accident and got through to someone who was better trained. I emailed the Chief Constable of the relevant police force the following day to alert them to a serious deficiency in training of emergency operators, and had a very grateful response saying that he'd just listened to my phone call and couldn't fault me on the accuracy of my information, and had identified "an urgent need for improved training". He also set my mind at rest that no-one had been injured (so the delay and confusion hadn't been critical to anyone's wellbeing) as it had been a damage-only accident. Nowadays with my smartphone with GPS I could have quoted OS grid ref, though I'd have had to stop to do that! I was impressed when my wife called in an accident while we were driving on the A1 a few years ago. The emergency operator didn't need to be told where we were and said "ah yes, I can see you've just passed the turning to Kirk Smeaton, heading north". The phone had its GPS turned on (we were recording a track on Viewranger) so I wonder if the location is automatically passed to the 999 operator if GPS is enabled. It was too precise to be based on triangulation of various in-range mobile phone masts. If he'd quoted the location of the accident, I'd have said that someone else had phoned in already, but he told us where we were at the time of the call, which was a bit further north, allowing for delays in "d'you think we ought to phone 999?", finding the phone and in dialling 999. |
#30
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Escape from a locked car
On 03/06/2021 21:20, NY wrote:
snipped I was impressed when my wife called in an accident while we were driving on the A1 a few years ago. The emergency operator didn't need to be told where we were and said "ah yes, I can see you've just passed the turning to Kirk Smeaton, heading north". The phone had its GPS turned on (we were recording a track on Viewranger) so I wonder if the location is automatically passed to the 999 operator if GPS is enabled. It was too precise to be based on triangulation of various in-range mobile phone masts. If he'd quoted the location of the accident, I'd have said that someone else had phoned in already, but he told us where we were at the time of the call, which was a bit further north, allowing for delays in "d'you think we ought to phone 999?", finding the phone and in dialling 999. I'm sure your phone GPS hadn't told them. I expect they could see you on the cameras, maybe your phone number had let them guess at your numberplate (from tax renewal on-line), and one of the ANPR cameras allowed them to home in on the vehicle. |
#31
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Escape from a locked car
On 03/06/2021 20:59, Bob Eager wrote:
On Thu, 03 Jun 2021 19:56:36 +0000, Bob Eager wrote: On Thu, 03 Jun 2021 17:08:28 +0100, Fredxx wrote: I would recommend what3words for those circumstances. As an aside it also integrates with SatNavs for those difficult places to find. Although it appears it is not infallible: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-57156797 The idea is that a simple misspelling of one of the words will be obvious. If the words suggest a different country then you ask again until it's consistent with the known area / land features. I've seen at least one example where the two locations were close enough to be plausible, but far enough away to be dangerous. Try: ///ashes.string.take and ///ashes.string.takes 9 miles apart I do agree with you it's not perfect, and what4words would be a better implementation from a smaller dictionary of 3,000 much simpler words. |
#32
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Escape from a locked car
On Thursday, 3 June 2021 at 21:21:37 UTC+1, NY wrote:
I was impressed when my wife called in an accident while we were driving on the A1 a few years ago. The emergency operator didn't need to be told where we were and said "ah yes, I can see you've just passed the turning to Kirk Smeaton, heading north". The phone had its GPS turned on (we were recording a track on Viewranger) so I wonder if the location is automatically passed to the 999 operator if GPS is enabled. Yes, it's called Advanced Mobile Location (AML). It's been supported in the UK for a number of years now as BT (who run the first line operator assistance centres) were one of its developers. Google's implementation (in Android) is called Emergency Location Service (ELS) and there's a bit of info about how it works he https://crisisresponse.google/emerge.../how-it-works/ |
#33
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Escape from a locked car
On Thursday, 3 June 2021 at 21:21:37 UTC+1, NY wrote:
The satnav in our Honda (using Garmin software) has an emergency mode which gives both a latitude and longitude and a description in words of the form "On A64, near the junction with the Scotchman Lane". A neat feature in my wife's Fiesta (2013 so getting on a bit for this sort of thing) is that if a situation arises whereby an airbag is deployed a module in the car will automatically call 999 via your bluetooth-paired mobile and report the fact along with the details of the car and GPS location. It'll give an audible warning via the car stereo beforehand giving you the option of preventing the call should it not be required. |
#34
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Escape from a locked car
On 03/06/2021 22:28, Mathew Newton wrote:
On Thursday, 3 June 2021 at 21:21:37 UTC+1, NY wrote: I was impressed when my wife called in an accident while we were driving on the A1 a few years ago. The emergency operator didn't need to be told where we were and said "ah yes, I can see you've just passed the turning to Kirk Smeaton, heading north". The phone had its GPS turned on (we were recording a track on Viewranger) so I wonder if the location is automatically passed to the 999 operator if GPS is enabled. Yes, it's called Advanced Mobile Location (AML). It's been supported in the UK for a number of years now as BT (who run the first line operator assistance centres) were one of its developers. Google's implementation (in Android) is called Emergency Location Service (ELS) and there's a bit of info about how it works he https://crisisresponse.google/emerge.../how-it-works/ Many thanks for the post. I did wonder how it was done. |
#35
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Escape from a locked car
On Thursday, 3 June 2021 at 22:32:31 UTC+1, Mathew Newton wrote:
On Thursday, 3 June 2021 at 21:21:37 UTC+1, NY wrote: The satnav in our Honda (using Garmin software) has an emergency mode which gives both a latitude and longitude and a description in words of the form "On A64, near the junction with the Scotchman Lane". A neat feature in my wife's Fiesta (2013 so getting on a bit for this sort of thing) is that if a situation arises whereby an airbag is deployed a module in the car will automatically call 999 via your bluetooth-paired mobile and report the fact along with the details of the car and GPS location. It'll give an audible warning via the car stereo beforehand giving you the option of preventing the call should it not be required. I forgot to add that there's no user-accesible satnav in this car, just a GPS receiver accessible only to the Emergency Assistance module. |
#36
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Escape from a locked car
"Bob Eager" wrote in message ... On Thu, 03 Jun 2021 19:56:36 +0000, Bob Eager wrote: On Thu, 03 Jun 2021 17:08:28 +0100, Fredxx wrote: I would recommend what3words for those circumstances. As an aside it also integrates with SatNavs for those difficult places to find. Although it appears it is not infallible: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-57156797 The idea is that a simple misspelling of one of the words will be obvious. If the words suggest a different country then you ask again until it's consistent with the known area / land features. I've seen at least one example where the two locations were close enough to be plausible, but far enough away to be dangerous. Try: ///ashes.string.take and ///ashes.string.takes 9 miles apart **** house design using both take and takes. |
#37
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Escape from a locked car
"NY" wrote in message ... "Bob Eager" wrote in message ... On Thu, 03 Jun 2021 13:38:46 +0100, Fredxx wrote: I would recommend what3words for those circumstances. As an aside it also integrates with SatNavs for those difficult places to find. Lots of discussions about the problems inherent in what3words. W3W is a great idea, but badly implemented. You'd think that they would deliberately avoid using both singulars and plurals, or words that sound similar to each other. Yeah, that is completely stupid. The satnav in our Honda (using Garmin software) has an emergency mode which gives both a latitude and longitude and a description in words of the form "On A64, near the junction with the Scotchman Lane". All these methods of communicating your location depend on one key thing: the emergency operator being able to make use of your location and not asking for stupid information. When the "M1 A 123.4" emergency location signs began to be erected on motorways and trunk roads (around 2008), I happened to see an accident on the opposite carriageway. Other people had stopped, but just in case no-one had phoned it in, I rang from my mobile (on hands free). I said something like "Accident on northbound B carriageway of M1. I'm travelling south on the A carriageway. I've just passed sign "M1 A 123.4", and the accident is on the opposite, B carriageway about 1 km north of the sign I've just given you". I was asked for the postcode of the address - FFS, random locations on motorways don't have postcodes. What junction had I just passed? No idea: I was in the middle of a long journey and all I needed to know was which junction I had to leave at, which was a long way off. I was a bit exasperated as I pointed out that the emergency signs were there for giving locations in an emergency and yet this person didn't know what to do with the information. I offered to stop at a 100-metre post on the hard shoulder and read out that information - those have been around for a lot longer, so maybe their software would know what to do with that info. "Don't bother," I was told. "My system wouldn't know what to do with that information either." I do hope someone had already called in the accident and got through to someone who was better trained. I emailed the Chief Constable of the relevant police force the following day to alert them to a serious deficiency in training of emergency operators, and had a very grateful response saying that he'd just listened to my phone call and couldn't fault me on the accuracy of my information, and had identified "an urgent need for improved training". He also set my mind at rest that no-one had been injured (so the delay and confusion hadn't been critical to anyone's wellbeing) as it had been a damage-only accident. Nowadays with my smartphone with GPS I could have quoted OS grid ref, though I'd have had to stop to do that! I was impressed when my wife called in an accident while we were driving on the A1 a few years ago. The emergency operator didn't need to be told where we were and said "ah yes, I can see you've just passed the turning to Kirk Smeaton, heading north". The phone had its GPS turned on (we were recording a track on Viewranger) so I wonder if the location is automatically passed to the 999 operator if GPS is enabled. It was too precise to be based on triangulation of various in-range mobile phone masts. If he'd quoted the location of the accident, I'd have said that someone else had phoned in already, but he told us where we were at the time of the call, which was a bit further north, allowing for delays in "d'you think we ought to phone 999?", finding the phone and in dialling 999. |
#38
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More Heavy Trolling by the Nym-Shifting Senile Australian Pest!
On Fri, 4 Jun 2021 09:00:59 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again: FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread -- Website (from 2007) dedicated to the 86-year-old senile Australian cretin's pathological trolling: https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/ |
#39
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Escape from a locked car
"newshound" wrote in message o.uk... On 03/06/2021 21:20, NY wrote: snipped I was impressed when my wife called in an accident while we were driving on the A1 a few years ago. The emergency operator didn't need to be told where we were and said "ah yes, I can see you've just passed the turning to Kirk Smeaton, heading north". The phone had its GPS turned on (we were recording a track on Viewranger) so I wonder if the location is automatically passed to the 999 operator if GPS is enabled. It was too precise to be based on triangulation of various in-range mobile phone masts. If he'd quoted the location of the accident, I'd have said that someone else had phoned in already, but he told us where we were at the time of the call, which was a bit further north, allowing for delays in "d'you think we ought to phone 999?", finding the phone and in dialling 999. I'm sure your phone GPS hadn't told them. You have no basis for that surety, some 999 systems can do that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enhanced_9-1-1 I expect they could see you on the cameras, But no way of knowing which car is his unless it is the only one visible which is unlikely. maybe your phone number had let them guess at your numberplate (from tax renewal on-line), Bloody unlikely that is automated in real time. and one of the ANPR cameras allowed them to home in on the vehicle. |
#40
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Escape from a locked car
On Thu, 03 Jun 2021 21:50:06 +0100, Fredxx wrote:
I do agree with you it's not perfect, and what4words would be a better implementation from a smaller dictionary of 3,000 much simpler words. A good example is 'dicewords'. That has a carefully chosen set of about 7000 words. And there is an improved set around, as well. -- My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message. Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org *lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor |
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