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Default Escape from a locked car


https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-derbyshire-57335740

A vet has drowned in her car.

Astonishingly in my car there appears no way to get out from inside if
it is locked and/or the electrics are off.

Apparently the answer is to have a device to break the side door glass.

I was looking at:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Wupettier-Portable-Window-Breaker-Seatbelt/dp/B08MFBZ2GV/ref=psdc_2481712031_t1_B08XNRVC3G

or

https://www.amazon.co.uk/AmazonBasics-Emergency-Cutter-Window-Hammer/dp/B073J92G1J/ref=psdc_2481712031_t3_B00K63TG9C

Do they work?, my gut feeling is the hammer would be best.
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"Pancho" wrote in message
...

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-derbyshire-57335740

A vet has drowned in her car.

Astonishingly in my car there appears no way to get out from inside if it
is locked and/or the electrics are off.

Apparently the answer is to have a device to break the side door glass.

I was looking at:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Wupettier-Portable-Window-Breaker-Seatbelt/dp/B08MFBZ2GV/ref=psdc_2481712031_t1_B08XNRVC3G

or

https://www.amazon.co.uk/AmazonBasics-Emergency-Cutter-Window-Hammer/dp/B073J92G1J/ref=psdc_2481712031_t3_B00K63TG9C

Do they work?, my gut feeling is the hammer would be best.


When I bought a USB charger to fit in my car's 12V socket between the seats,
I chose one which was advertised as having a pointed end, designed to break
a window if you got trapped inside a locked car. The trick with breaking a
window is to strike it near the *corner* of the glass, not in the middle as
you might do instinctively. I imagine that a side window (usually just
heat-tempered glass) is a lot easier to break than a windscreen (usually
laminated).

I hadn't realised that some cars need an electrical supply to unlock the car
from inside. I thought they always used a mechanical release from the inside
door handle, with that mechanism being disabled only when the car is
deadlocked.


In the case of this tragic case of the vet (I was just reading the story
before I saw this posting) it is possible that the doors weren't locked, but
the pressure of water from outside made it impossible to open them. Mind
you, the electric windows wouldn't work without power, and if I became stuck
in deep water, I'd leave the doors closed and open a window to escape.

Luckily my phone has a GPS app (GPS Status, by Eclipsim) which can give my
location (either lat/long or OS grid ref) so I can read that out to the
emergency services.

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On 03/06/2021 12:39, Pancho wrote:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-derbyshire-57335740

A vet has drowned in her car.

Astonishingly in my car there appears no way to get out from inside if
it is locked and/or the electrics are off.

Apparently the answer is to have a device to break the side door glass.

I was looking at:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Wupettier-Portable-Window-Breaker-Seatbelt/dp/B08MFBZ2GV/ref=psdc_2481712031_t1_B08XNRVC3G


or

https://www.amazon.co.uk/AmazonBasics-Emergency-Cutter-Window-Hammer/dp/B073J92G1J/ref=psdc_2481712031_t3_B00K63TG9C


Do they work?, my gut feeling is the hammer would be best.


**** of my acquaintance drowned his XF jag.
recovered, battery flat, couldn't unlock, emergency key didn't work
either. not even to open the boot...where the battery is!


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On 03/06/2021 12:39, Pancho wrote:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-derbyshire-57335740

A vet has drowned in her car.


"When she called emergency services, she told the call handler she
could not get out of the black Honda Civic, could not see, and said: "I
am sinking".

No indication that it was in fact *locked*...



Astonishingly in my car there appears no way to get out from inside
if it is locked and/or the electrics are off.


Are you sure? most cars have mechanicall override on electrical locks


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that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."

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On 03/06/2021 13:07, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Thu, 03 Jun 2021 12:39:13 +0100, Pancho wrote:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-derbyshire-57335740

A vet has drowned in her car.

Astonishingly in my car there appears no way to get out from inside if
it is locked and/or the electrics are off.

Apparently the answer is to have a device to break the side door glass.

I was looking at:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Wupettier-P...r-Seatbelt/dp/

B08MFBZ2GV/ref=psdc_2481712031_t1_B08XNRVC3G

or

https://www.amazon.co.uk/AmazonBasic...Window-Hammer/

dp/B073J92G1J/ref=psdc_2481712031_t3_B00K63TG9C

Do they work?, my gut feeling is the hammer would be best.


Irrespective of that, escaping from a submerged (or submerging) car isn't
a walk in the park. It may well be that the driver could have perished
with the windows broken anyway.

The stock advice is to open the windows as soon as you are in a flood.
then if you cant open the doors wait until the water is inside the car
to the same level as outside

THEN you can open the door

Of course the doors may not have been locked, or they may have been damaged

--
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On Thu, 3 Jun 2021 13:06:06 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 03/06/2021 12:39, Pancho wrote:

[snip]


**** of my acquaintance drowned his XF jag.
recovered, battery flat, couldn't unlock, emergency key didn't work
either. not even to open the boot...where the battery is!


I'm surprised there's no mechanical key opening on the boot on the XF.
I've owned a 2000 S-Type and a 2003 XJ (X350) and both had mechanical
key-operated boot locks that could be used to open the boot if the
electrical opening failed for some reason.

You do need to look carefully though, as the hole for the key is small
and tucked away so it may not be immediately obvious.
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On 03/06/2021 12:56, NY wrote:
"Pancho" wrote in message
...

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-derbyshire-57335740

A vet has drowned in her car.

Astonishingly in my car there appears no way to get out from inside if
it is locked and/or the electrics are off.

Apparently the answer is to have a device to break the side door glass.

I was looking at:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Wupettier-Portable-Window-Breaker-Seatbelt/dp/B08MFBZ2GV/ref=psdc_2481712031_t1_B08XNRVC3G


or

https://www.amazon.co.uk/AmazonBasics-Emergency-Cutter-Window-Hammer/dp/B073J92G1J/ref=psdc_2481712031_t3_B00K63TG9C


Do they work?, my gut feeling is the hammer would be best.


When I bought a USB charger to fit in my car's 12V socket between the
seats, I chose one which was advertised as having a pointed end,
designed to break a window if you got trapped inside a locked car. The
trick with breaking a window is to strike it near the *corner* of the
glass, not in the middle as you might do instinctively. I imagine that a
side window (usually just heat-tempered glass) is a lot easier to break
than a windscreen (usually laminated).

I hadn't realised that some cars need an electrical supply to unlock the
car from inside. I thought they always used a mechanical release from
the inside door handle, with that mechanism being disabled only when the
car is deadlocked.


In the case of this tragic case of the vet (I was just reading the story
before I saw this posting) it is possible that the doors weren't locked,
but the pressure of water from outside made it impossible to open them.
Mind you, the electric windows wouldn't work without power, and if I
became stuck in deep water, I'd leave the doors closed and open a window
to escape.

Luckily my phone has a GPS app (GPS Status, by Eclipsim) which can give
my location (either lat/long or OS grid ref) so I can read that out to
the emergency services.


I would recommend what3words for those circumstances. As an aside it
also integrates with SatNavs for those difficult places to find.

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Jethro_uk wrote:
Irrespective of that, escaping from a submerged (or submerging) car isn't
a walk in the park. It may well be that the driver could have perished
with the windows broken anyway.


How easy is it to smash a window with many tonnes of water on the other
side? I would have expected it would absorb some of the shock from hitting
it with a hard thing.

Theo
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Caecilius wrote :
I'm surprised there's no mechanical key opening on the boot on the XF.
I've owned a 2000 S-Type and a 2003 XJ (X350) and both had mechanical
key-operated boot locks that could be used to open the boot if the
electrical opening failed for some reason.


My car has no means to open the boot, on the boot itself. There is a
button by the driver's shin, or the remote works. If both fail, then
you have to lower the rear seat back, then crawl through to pull an
emergency release from inside. I don't know how you would manage that,
with a full boot.
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It happens that The Natural Philosopher formulated :
THEN you can open the door

Of course the doors may not have been locked, or they may have been damaged


The crash detector puts the hazards on and unlocks the doors.


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On 03/06/2021 14:04, Theo wrote:
Jethro_uk wrote:
Irrespective of that, escaping from a submerged (or submerging) car isn't
a walk in the park. It may well be that the driver could have perished
with the windows broken anyway.


How easy is it to smash a window with many tonnes of water on the other
side? I would have expected it would absorb some of the shock from hitting
it with a hard thing.


That's why it's recommended to wind down or smash a window whilst still
floating.
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On 03/06/2021 12:39, Pancho wrote:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-derbyshire-57335740

A vet has drowned in her car.

Astonishingly in my car there appears no way to get out from inside if
it is locked and/or the electrics are off.

Apparently the answer is to have a device to break the side door glass.

I was looking at:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Wupettier-Portable-Window-Breaker-Seatbelt/dp/B08MFBZ2GV/ref=psdc_2481712031_t1_B08XNRVC3G


or

https://www.amazon.co.uk/AmazonBasics-Emergency-Cutter-Window-Hammer/dp/B073J92G1J/ref=psdc_2481712031_t3_B00K63TG9C


Do they work?, my gut feeling is the hammer would be best.


Automatic centre-punch? It's the preferred choice of many thieves.
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On 03/06/2021 16:41, Steve Walker wrote:
On 03/06/2021 12:39, Pancho wrote:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-derbyshire-57335740

A vet has drowned in her car.

Astonishingly in my car there appears no way to get out from inside if
it is locked and/or the electrics are off.

Apparently the answer is to have a device to break the side door glass.

I was looking at:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Wupettier-Portable-Window-Breaker-Seatbelt/dp/B08MFBZ2GV/ref=psdc_2481712031_t1_B08XNRVC3G


A friend of mine has one of these.

or

https://www.amazon.co.uk/AmazonBasics-Emergency-Cutter-Window-Hammer/dp/B073J92G1J/ref=psdc_2481712031_t3_B00K63TG9C


Do they work?, my gut feeling is the hammer would be best.


Automatic centre-punch? It's the preferred choice of many thieves.


Keep it simple. Assuming you can swing the thing yes.

Being RHD and right handed I don't know how much force I would have. I
also prefer the seat-belt cutter with a pull action, rather than 'push'.
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On 03/06/2021 13:38, Fredxx wrote:
On 03/06/2021 12:56, NY wrote:

....
Luckily my phone has a GPS app (GPS Status, by Eclipsim) which can
give my location (either lat/long or OS grid ref) so I can read that
out to the emergency services.


I would recommend what3words for those circumstances. As an aside it
also integrates with SatNavs for those difficult places to find.


Although it appears it is not infallible:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-57156797

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On 03/06/2021 16:48, Fredxx wrote:
On 03/06/2021 16:41, Steve Walker wrote:

.....
Automatic centre-punch? It's the preferred choice of many thieves.


Keep it simple. Assuming you can swing the thing yes.


Why would you need to swing it? You simply push on the end and, when you
reach the pre-set loading, the punch is fired forward with enough force
to indent steel.


Being RHD and right handed I don't know how much force I would have. I
also prefer the seat-belt cutter with a pull action, rather than 'push'.



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On 03/06/2021 16:59, nightjar wrote:
On 03/06/2021 16:48, Fredxx wrote:
On 03/06/2021 16:41, Steve Walker wrote:

....
Automatic centre-punch? It's the preferred choice of many thieves.


Keep it simple. Assuming you can swing the thing yes.


Why would you need to swing it? You simply push on the end and, when you
reach the pre-set loading, the punch is fired forward with enough force
to indent steel.


Being RHD and right handed I don't know how much force I would have. I
also prefer the seat-belt cutter with a pull action, rather than 'push'.


Sorry, I got the two links mixed up. The one my friend has is the hammer
type.

The punch one looks nice, except you don't know how much pressure you
need to make the punch operate, and I don't like the push-cutter.
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On 03/06/2021 16:48, Fredxx wrote:
On 03/06/2021 16:41, Steve Walker wrote:
On 03/06/2021 12:39, Pancho wrote:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-derbyshire-57335740

A vet has drowned in her car.

Astonishingly in my car there appears no way to get out from inside
if it is locked and/or the electrics are off.

Apparently the answer is to have a device to break the side door glass.

I was looking at:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Wupettier-Portable-Window-Breaker-Seatbelt/dp/B08MFBZ2GV/ref=psdc_2481712031_t1_B08XNRVC3G



A friend of mine has one of these.

or

https://www.amazon.co.uk/AmazonBasics-Emergency-Cutter-Window-Hammer/dp/B073J92G1J/ref=psdc_2481712031_t3_B00K63TG9C


Do they work?, my gut feeling is the hammer would be best.


Automatic centre-punch? It's the preferred choice of many thieves.


Keep it simple. Assuming you can swing the thing yes.

Being RHD and right handed I don't know how much force I would have. I
also prefer the seat-belt cutter with a pull action, rather than 'push'.


https://www.toolstation.com/automati...e-punch/p29430

You place the tip on a the glass (in normal use, on metal) and push. The
body moves down around 1/4" and then the stored energy is released into
the tip - hard enough to indent steel and more than enough to shatter
toughened glass.
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On 03/06/2021 16:53, nightjar wrote:
On 03/06/2021 13:38, Fredxx wrote:
On 03/06/2021 12:56, NY wrote:

...
Luckily my phone has a GPS app (GPS Status, by Eclipsim) which can
give my location (either lat/long or OS grid ref) so I can read that
out to the emergency services.


I would recommend what3words for those circumstances. As an aside it
also integrates with SatNavs for those difficult places to find.


Although it appears it is not infallible:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-57156797


The idea is that a simple misspelling of one of the words will be
obvious. If the words suggest a different country then you ask again
until it's consistent with the known area / land features.

Whereas one digit error in a lat/long or OS ref can mean you're in the
right area but still be an unknown distance away.


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On 03/06/2021 12:39, Pancho wrote:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-derbyshire-57335740

A vet has drowned in her car.

Astonishingly in my car there appears no way to get out from inside if it is locked and/or the electrics are off.

Apparently the answer is to have a device to break the side door glass.

I was looking at:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Wupettier-Portable-Window-Breaker-Seatbelt/dp/B08MFBZ2GV/ref=psdc_2481712031_t1_B08XNRVC3G

or

https://www.amazon.co.uk/AmazonBasics-Emergency-Cutter-Window-Hammer/dp/B073J92G1J/ref=psdc_2481712031_t3_B00K63TG9C

Do they work?, my gut feeling is the hammer would be best.


I don't know if they work, but the one I got some years ago looks identical to the second of these. It fits neatly on the floor near the back of the footwell. It also looks similar to the hammers that used to be provided on many trains and long-distance buses, so I guess the transport authorities tested them at some point. My wife was not entirely persuaded that this was something we ought to have, but they don't cost much. Since most modern cars lock the doors automatically when you start moving and have electric windows, if you didn't realise that you were in a flood until after the battery stopped being able to power the locks and windows, you could just possibly find that smashing a window was the only way out.

Having read the story too, I suspect this unfortunate vet might have been a victim of a satnav: the road seems a really tiny lane barely wide enough for one car not leading anywhere much but could perhaps have been chosen as a short-cut by a badly programmed sat-nav unit. I wish that satnavs had an option to specify "don't take stupid short-cuts to save a few seconds of time".


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"Fredxx" wrote in message
...
On 03/06/2021 16:59, nightjar wrote:
On 03/06/2021 16:48, Fredxx wrote:
On 03/06/2021 16:41, Steve Walker wrote:

....
Automatic centre-punch? It's the preferred choice of many thieves.

Keep it simple. Assuming you can swing the thing yes.


Why would you need to swing it? You simply push on the end and, when you
reach the pre-set loading, the punch is fired forward with enough force
to indent steel.


Being RHD and right handed I don't know how much force I would have. I
also prefer the seat-belt cutter with a pull action, rather than 'push'.


Sorry, I got the two links mixed up. The one my friend has is the hammer
type.

The punch one looks nice, except you don't know how much pressure you need
to make the punch operate,


The best ones are adjustable. Mine is.

and I don't like the push-cutter.




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On 03/06/2021 17:04, Fredxx wrote:
On 03/06/2021 16:59, nightjar wrote:
On 03/06/2021 16:48, Fredxx wrote:
On 03/06/2021 16:41, Steve Walker wrote:

....
Automatic centre-punch? It's the preferred choice of many thieves.

Keep it simple. Assuming you can swing the thing yes.


Why would you need to swing it? You simply push on the end and, when
you reach the pre-set loading, the punch is fired forward with enough
force to indent steel.


Being RHD and right handed I don't know how much force I would have.
I also prefer the seat-belt cutter with a pull action, rather than
'push'.


Sorry, I got the two links mixed up. The one my friend has is the hammer
type.

The punch one looks nice, except you don't know how much pressure you
need to make the punch operate,


You adjust the knob on the end to whatever suits you. Given the
application, I suggest that should be the highest you can manage. IIRC,
the Moore and Wright one was adjustable from 0.5lb (just marks brass) to
9lb (nice indentation on steel).

and I don't like the push-cutter.


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On Fri, 4 Jun 2021 03:49:54 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread


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On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 7:58:21 PM UTC+1, Peeler wrote:
On Fri, 4 Jun 2021 03:49:54 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread


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MID:

Top Gear covered the escape from a car in water. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-hADcZ49fE
Dont bother with waiting for windows, even with a diver in the back of the car, just open the door as quick as you can
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On 03/06/2021 13:37, Caecilius wrote:
On Thu, 3 Jun 2021 13:06:06 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 03/06/2021 12:39, Pancho wrote:

[snip]


**** of my acquaintance drowned his XF jag.
recovered, battery flat, couldn't unlock, emergency key didn't work
either. not even to open the boot...where the battery is!


I'm surprised there's no mechanical key opening on the boot on the XF.
I've owned a 2000 S-Type and a 2003 XJ (X350) and both had mechanical
key-operated boot locks that could be used to open the boot if the
electrical opening failed for some reason.


I have remembered that he had lost the fob that HAD the emergency key
and not bothered to get a spare key cut from it., he had a blank key in it!


You do need to look carefully though, as the hole for the key is small
and tucked away so it may not be immediately obvious.

I know where it is on mine :-)
And BOTH my fobs have keys and both now work



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On Thu, 03 Jun 2021 13:38:46 +0100, Fredxx wrote:

I would recommend what3words for those circumstances. As an aside it
also integrates with SatNavs for those difficult places to find.


Lots of discussions about the problems inherent in what3words.

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On Thu, 03 Jun 2021 17:08:28 +0100, Fredxx wrote:


I would recommend what3words for those circumstances. As an aside it
also integrates with SatNavs for those difficult places to find.


Although it appears it is not infallible:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-57156797


The idea is that a simple misspelling of one of the words will be
obvious.
If the words suggest a different country then you ask again until it's
consistent with the known area / land features.


I've seen at least one example where the two locations were close enough
to be plausible, but far enough away to be dangerous.

--
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wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
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Default Escape from a locked car

On 03/06/2021 17:10, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Thu, 03 Jun 2021 14:23:44 +0100, Harry Bloomfield, Esq. wrote:

It happens that The Natural Philosopher formulated :
THEN you can open the door

Of course the doors may not have been locked, or they may have been
damaged


The crash detector puts the hazards on and unlocks the doors.


Except it's not just about having an exit ... you can end up horribly
disoriented and simply unable to find the way up. Bearing in mind quite
apart from the shock and possible unpreparedness (meaning you didn't
stock up on precious air before you sunk) you will be panicking anyway.
And that's *before* you start to react to the build up of CO2 that could
make you frenzied.


I am not saying its a low hazard situation.

There was nurse who disappeared one night. Just vanished.

about ten years latrer they found her volvo in a lake, on a bend on te
A10 just north of Cambridge. She has simply gone straight on, missed the
chevrons and ended up under 10 ft of water., Probably asleep at the
wheel - end of a long shift at Addenbrookes.

This was Volvo 240 period IIRC - no electric locks

It's bloody hard to get out of a car under water and the real advice is
that your bests chance is to wind the windows down before it sinks. if
you can and then once its sunk open the doors or climb out the windows.
OK ArtStudents are going to die,. because naturally they shut the
windows to keep the water out...

The always watchable "Mythbusters" looked at escaping a submerged car
(twice !) and the takeaway message was it was waaaaaaaaaaaaay harder and
scarier than you may have thought. Which - given they were doing it in
almost lab conditions - isn't a great hope if it happens to you in the
dark, on a lonely road when you least expected it.

I agree. several people a year die on the Cambridge drains - its bloody
scary driving out in the middle of the fens with a deep drain - like 30
foot wide and 15ft deep - alongside the road and no barriers at all...

/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sRRBn8Gy0QuClyp4FKDW1sw!2e0!7i1 3312!8i6656


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Default Escape from a locked car

On Thu, 03 Jun 2021 19:56:36 +0000, Bob Eager wrote:

On Thu, 03 Jun 2021 17:08:28 +0100, Fredxx wrote:


I would recommend what3words for those circumstances. As an aside it
also integrates with SatNavs for those difficult places to find.


Although it appears it is not infallible:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-57156797


The idea is that a simple misspelling of one of the words will be
obvious.
If the words suggest a different country then you ask again until it's
consistent with the known area / land features.


I've seen at least one example where the two locations were close enough
to be plausible, but far enough away to be dangerous.


Try:

///ashes.string.take

and

///ashes.string.takes

9 miles apart




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"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 03 Jun 2021 13:38:46 +0100, Fredxx wrote:

I would recommend what3words for those circumstances. As an aside it
also integrates with SatNavs for those difficult places to find.


Lots of discussions about the problems inherent in what3words.


W3W is a great idea, but badly implemented. You'd think that they would
deliberately avoid using both singulars and plurals, or words that sound
similar to each other.

The satnav in our Honda (using Garmin software) has an emergency mode which
gives both a latitude and longitude and a description in words of the form
"On A64, near the junction with the Scotchman Lane".


All these methods of communicating your location depend on one key thing:
the emergency operator being able to make use of your location and not
asking for stupid information. When the "M1 A 123.4" emergency location
signs began to be erected on motorways and trunk roads (around 2008), I
happened to see an accident on the opposite carriageway. Other people had
stopped, but just in case no-one had phoned it in, I rang from my mobile (on
hands free). I said something like "Accident on northbound B carriageway of
M1. I'm travelling south on the A carriageway. I've just passed sign "M1 A
123.4", and the accident is on the opposite, B carriageway about 1 km north
of the sign I've just given you". I was asked for the postcode of the
address - FFS, random locations on motorways don't have postcodes. What
junction had I just passed? No idea: I was in the middle of a long journey
and all I needed to know was which junction I had to leave at, which was a
long way off. I was a bit exasperated as I pointed out that the emergency
signs were there for giving locations in an emergency and yet this person
didn't know what to do with the information. I offered to stop at a
100-metre post on the hard shoulder and read out that information - those
have been around for a lot longer, so maybe their software would know what
to do with that info. "Don't bother," I was told. "My system wouldn't know
what to do with that information either." I do hope someone had already
called in the accident and got through to someone who was better trained.

I emailed the Chief Constable of the relevant police force the following day
to alert them to a serious deficiency in training of emergency operators,
and had a very grateful response saying that he'd just listened to my phone
call and couldn't fault me on the accuracy of my information, and had
identified "an urgent need for improved training". He also set my mind at
rest that no-one had been injured (so the delay and confusion hadn't been
critical to anyone's wellbeing) as it had been a damage-only accident.

Nowadays with my smartphone with GPS I could have quoted OS grid ref, though
I'd have had to stop to do that!

I was impressed when my wife called in an accident while we were driving on
the A1 a few years ago. The emergency operator didn't need to be told where
we were and said "ah yes, I can see you've just passed the turning to Kirk
Smeaton, heading north". The phone had its GPS turned on (we were recording
a track on Viewranger) so I wonder if the location is automatically passed
to the 999 operator if GPS is enabled. It was too precise to be based on
triangulation of various in-range mobile phone masts. If he'd quoted the
location of the accident, I'd have said that someone else had phoned in
already, but he told us where we were at the time of the call, which was a
bit further north, allowing for delays in "d'you think we ought to phone
999?", finding the phone and in dialling 999.

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On 03/06/2021 21:20, NY wrote:

snipped

I was impressed when my wife called in an accident while we were driving
on the A1 a few years ago. The emergency operator didn't need to be told
where we were and said "ah yes, I can see you've just passed the turning
to Kirk Smeaton, heading north". The phone had its GPS turned on (we
were recording a track on Viewranger) so I wonder if the location is
automatically passed to the 999 operator if GPS is enabled. It was too
precise to be based on triangulation of various in-range mobile phone
masts. If he'd quoted the location of the accident, I'd have said that
someone else had phoned in already, but he told us where we were at the
time of the call, which was a bit further north, allowing for delays in
"d'you think we ought to phone 999?", finding the phone and in dialling
999.


I'm sure your phone GPS hadn't told them. I expect they could see you on
the cameras, maybe your phone number had let them guess at your
numberplate (from tax renewal on-line), and one of the ANPR cameras
allowed them to home in on the vehicle.


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On 03/06/2021 20:59, Bob Eager wrote:
On Thu, 03 Jun 2021 19:56:36 +0000, Bob Eager wrote:

On Thu, 03 Jun 2021 17:08:28 +0100, Fredxx wrote:


I would recommend what3words for those circumstances. As an aside it
also integrates with SatNavs for those difficult places to find.


Although it appears it is not infallible:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-57156797

The idea is that a simple misspelling of one of the words will be
obvious.
If the words suggest a different country then you ask again until it's
consistent with the known area / land features.


I've seen at least one example where the two locations were close enough
to be plausible, but far enough away to be dangerous.


Try:

///ashes.string.take

and

///ashes.string.takes

9 miles apart


I do agree with you it's not perfect, and what4words would be a better
implementation from a smaller dictionary of 3,000 much simpler words.

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Default Escape from a locked car

On Thursday, 3 June 2021 at 21:21:37 UTC+1, NY wrote:
I was impressed when my wife called in an accident while we were driving on
the A1 a few years ago. The emergency operator didn't need to be told where
we were and said "ah yes, I can see you've just passed the turning to Kirk
Smeaton, heading north". The phone had its GPS turned on (we were recording
a track on Viewranger) so I wonder if the location is automatically passed
to the 999 operator if GPS is enabled.


Yes, it's called Advanced Mobile Location (AML). It's been supported in the UK for a number of years now as BT (who run the first line operator assistance centres) were one of its developers.

Google's implementation (in Android) is called Emergency Location Service (ELS) and there's a bit of info about how it works he

https://crisisresponse.google/emerge.../how-it-works/
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Default Escape from a locked car

On Thursday, 3 June 2021 at 21:21:37 UTC+1, NY wrote:

The satnav in our Honda (using Garmin software) has an emergency mode which
gives both a latitude and longitude and a description in words of the form
"On A64, near the junction with the Scotchman Lane".


A neat feature in my wife's Fiesta (2013 so getting on a bit for this sort of thing) is that if a situation arises whereby an airbag is deployed a module in the car will automatically call 999 via your bluetooth-paired mobile and report the fact along with the details of the car and GPS location. It'll give an audible warning via the car stereo beforehand giving you the option of preventing the call should it not be required.
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On 03/06/2021 22:28, Mathew Newton wrote:
On Thursday, 3 June 2021 at 21:21:37 UTC+1, NY wrote:
I was impressed when my wife called in an accident while we were driving on
the A1 a few years ago. The emergency operator didn't need to be told where
we were and said "ah yes, I can see you've just passed the turning to Kirk
Smeaton, heading north". The phone had its GPS turned on (we were recording
a track on Viewranger) so I wonder if the location is automatically passed
to the 999 operator if GPS is enabled.


Yes, it's called Advanced Mobile Location (AML). It's been supported in the UK for a number of years now as BT (who run the first line operator assistance centres) were one of its developers.

Google's implementation (in Android) is called Emergency Location Service (ELS) and there's a bit of info about how it works he

https://crisisresponse.google/emerge.../how-it-works/


Many thanks for the post.

I did wonder how it was done.


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On Thursday, 3 June 2021 at 22:32:31 UTC+1, Mathew Newton wrote:
On Thursday, 3 June 2021 at 21:21:37 UTC+1, NY wrote:
The satnav in our Honda (using Garmin software) has an emergency mode which
gives both a latitude and longitude and a description in words of the form
"On A64, near the junction with the Scotchman Lane".

A neat feature in my wife's Fiesta (2013 so getting on a bit for this sort of thing) is that if a situation arises whereby an airbag is deployed a module in the car will automatically call 999 via your bluetooth-paired mobile and report the fact along with the details of the car and GPS location. It'll give an audible warning via the car stereo beforehand giving you the option of preventing the call should it not be required.


I forgot to add that there's no user-accesible satnav in this car, just a GPS receiver accessible only to the Emergency Assistance module.


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"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 03 Jun 2021 19:56:36 +0000, Bob Eager wrote:

On Thu, 03 Jun 2021 17:08:28 +0100, Fredxx wrote:


I would recommend what3words for those circumstances. As an aside it
also integrates with SatNavs for those difficult places to find.


Although it appears it is not infallible:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-57156797

The idea is that a simple misspelling of one of the words will be
obvious.
If the words suggest a different country then you ask again until it's
consistent with the known area / land features.


I've seen at least one example where the two locations were close enough
to be plausible, but far enough away to be dangerous.


Try:

///ashes.string.take

and

///ashes.string.takes

9 miles apart


**** house design using both take and takes.

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"NY" wrote in message
...
"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 03 Jun 2021 13:38:46 +0100, Fredxx wrote:

I would recommend what3words for those circumstances. As an aside it
also integrates with SatNavs for those difficult places to find.


Lots of discussions about the problems inherent in what3words.


W3W is a great idea, but badly implemented. You'd think that they would
deliberately avoid using both singulars and plurals, or words that sound
similar to each other.


Yeah, that is completely stupid.

The satnav in our Honda (using Garmin software) has an emergency mode
which gives both a latitude and longitude and a description in words of
the form "On A64, near the junction with the Scotchman Lane".


All these methods of communicating your location depend on one key thing:
the emergency operator being able to make use of your location and not
asking for stupid information. When the "M1 A 123.4" emergency location
signs began to be erected on motorways and trunk roads (around 2008), I
happened to see an accident on the opposite carriageway. Other people had
stopped, but just in case no-one had phoned it in, I rang from my mobile
(on hands free). I said something like "Accident on northbound B
carriageway of M1. I'm travelling south on the A carriageway. I've just
passed sign "M1 A 123.4", and the accident is on the opposite, B
carriageway about 1 km north of the sign I've just given you". I was asked
for the postcode of the address - FFS, random locations on motorways don't
have postcodes. What junction had I just passed? No idea: I was in the
middle of a long journey and all I needed to know was which junction I had
to leave at, which was a long way off. I was a bit exasperated as I
pointed out that the emergency signs were there for giving locations in an
emergency and yet this person didn't know what to do with the information.
I offered to stop at a 100-metre post on the hard shoulder and read out
that information - those have been around for a lot longer, so maybe their
software would know what to do with that info. "Don't bother," I was told.
"My system wouldn't know what to do with that information either." I do
hope someone had already called in the accident and got through to someone
who was better trained.

I emailed the Chief Constable of the relevant police force the following
day to alert them to a serious deficiency in training of emergency
operators, and had a very grateful response saying that he'd just listened
to my phone call and couldn't fault me on the accuracy of my information,
and had identified "an urgent need for improved training". He also set my
mind at rest that no-one had been injured (so the delay and confusion
hadn't been critical to anyone's wellbeing) as it had been a damage-only
accident.

Nowadays with my smartphone with GPS I could have quoted OS grid ref,
though I'd have had to stop to do that!

I was impressed when my wife called in an accident while we were driving
on the A1 a few years ago. The emergency operator didn't need to be told
where we were and said "ah yes, I can see you've just passed the turning
to Kirk Smeaton, heading north". The phone had its GPS turned on (we were
recording a track on Viewranger) so I wonder if the location is
automatically passed to the 999 operator if GPS is enabled. It was too
precise to be based on triangulation of various in-range mobile phone
masts. If he'd quoted the location of the accident, I'd have said that
someone else had phoned in already, but he told us where we were at the
time of the call, which was a bit further north, allowing for delays in
"d'you think we ought to phone 999?", finding the phone and in dialling
999.


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On Fri, 4 Jun 2021 09:00:59 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

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"newshound" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 03/06/2021 21:20, NY wrote:

snipped

I was impressed when my wife called in an accident while we were driving
on the A1 a few years ago. The emergency operator didn't need to be told
where we were and said "ah yes, I can see you've just passed the turning
to Kirk Smeaton, heading north". The phone had its GPS turned on (we were
recording a track on Viewranger) so I wonder if the location is
automatically passed to the 999 operator if GPS is enabled. It was too
precise to be based on triangulation of various in-range mobile phone
masts. If he'd quoted the location of the accident, I'd have said that
someone else had phoned in already, but he told us where we were at the
time of the call, which was a bit further north, allowing for delays in
"d'you think we ought to phone 999?", finding the phone and in dialling
999.


I'm sure your phone GPS hadn't told them.


You have no basis for that surety, some 999 systems can do that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enhanced_9-1-1

I expect they could see you on the cameras,


But no way of knowing which car is his unless
it is the only one visible which is unlikely.

maybe your phone number had let them guess at your numberplate (from tax
renewal on-line),


Bloody unlikely that is automated in real time.

and one of the ANPR cameras allowed them to home in on the vehicle.


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On Thu, 03 Jun 2021 21:50:06 +0100, Fredxx wrote:

I do agree with you it's not perfect, and what4words would be a better
implementation from a smaller dictionary of 3,000 much simpler words.


A good example is 'dicewords'. That has a carefully chosen set of about
7000 words. And there is an improved set around, as well.

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