One official told Italian TV channel Rai 3 that the suspects had
admitted disactivating the emergency brake following "malfunctions in
the cable car", which repair workers had been unable to fix, according
to Ansa new agency.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-57252289



As one does, of course. What a load of plonkers.

On 26/05/2021 12:54, GB wrote:
One official told Italian TV channel Rai 3 that the suspects had
admitted disactivating the emergency brake following "malfunctions in
the cable car", which repair workers had been unable to fix, according
to Ansa new agency.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-57252289



As one does, of course. What a load of plonkers.

How could that have caused the cable to break?


--
To ban Christmas, simply give turkeys the vote.

On Wed, 26 May 2021 12:57:28 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 26/05/2021 12:54, GB wrote:
One official told Italian TV channel Rai 3 that the suspects had
admitted disactivating the emergency brake following "malfunctions in
the cable car", which repair workers had been unable to fix, according
to Ansa new agency.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-57252289



As one does, of course. What a load of plonkers.

How could that have caused the cable to break?


That was the other problem.

On 26/05/2021 12:54, GB wrote:
One official told Italian TV channel Rai 3 that the suspects had
admitted disactivating the emergency brake following "malfunctions in
the cable car", which repair workers had been unable to fix, according
to Ansa new agency.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-57252289



As one does, of course. What a load of plonkers.

Amazing.

I could understand disabling the emergency brake to get it down, empty,
for maintenance, but what on Earth made them think it was okay to carry
on running it, in passenger service, like that?

On 26/05/2021 13:02, jon wrote:
On Wed, 26 May 2021 12:57:28 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 26/05/2021 12:54, GB wrote:
One official told Italian TV channel Rai 3 that the suspects had
admitted disactivating the emergency brake following "malfunctions in
the cable car", which repair workers had been unable to fix, according
to Ansa new agency.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-57252289



As one does, of course. What a load of plonkers.

How could that have caused the cable to break?


That was the other problem.



Indeed. Most safety features are not needed until there's a fault.

The poor 5 year old kid is being brought out of an induced coma today,
and at some stage somebody is going to have to tell him his entire
family has been wiped out. Grandparents, parents, sibling.

On 26/05/2021 13:22, GB wrote:
On 26/05/2021 13:02, jon wrote:
On Wed, 26 May 2021 12:57:28 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 26/05/2021 12:54, GB wrote:
One official told Italian TV channel Rai 3 that the suspects had
admitted disactivating the emergency brake following "malfunctions in
the cable car", which repair workers had been unable to fix, according
to Ansa new agency.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-57252289



As one does, of course. What a load of plonkers.

How could that have caused the cable to break?


That was the other problem.



Indeed. Most safety features are not needed until there's a fault.

The poor 5 year old kid is being brought out of an induced coma today,
and at some stage somebody is going to have to tell him his entire
family has been wiped out. Grandparents, parents, sibling.


There was a time in my early teens when being told that would have made
my day....

--
The theory of Communism may be summed up in one sentence: Abolish all
private property.

Karl Marx

On 26 May 2021 at 12:57:28 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"
wrote:

On 26/05/2021 12:54, GB wrote:
One official told Italian TV channel Rai 3 that the suspects had
admitted disactivating the emergency brake following "malfunctions in
the cable car", which repair workers had been unable to fix, according
to Ansa new agency.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-57252289



As one does, of course. What a load of plonkers.

How could that have caused the cable to break?

The point of the emergency brake is that the cable car is lifted up the the
main 'unbreakable' possibly dual support cables by a relatively vulnerable,
thin and wincheable cable which is vulnerable to wear and mechanical
misadventure. I'm sure you knew that.

--
Roger Hayter

On 26/05/2021 14:11, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 26 May 2021 at 12:57:28 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"
wrote:

On 26/05/2021 12:54, GB wrote:
One official told Italian TV channel Rai 3 that the suspects had
admitted disactivating the emergency brake following "malfunctions in
the cable car", which repair workers had been unable to fix, according
to Ansa new agency.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-57252289



As one does, of course. What a load of plonkers.

How could that have caused the cable to break?

The point of the emergency brake is that the cable car is lifted up the the
main 'unbreakable' possibly dual support cables by a relatively vulnerable,
thin and wincheable cable which is vulnerable to wear and mechanical
misadventure. I'm sure you knew that.


How could that have caused the main 'unbreakable' cable to break?
And what has that to do with the emergency brake?

--
"I guess a rattlesnake ain't risponsible fer bein' a rattlesnake, but ah
puts mah heel on um jess the same if'n I catches him around mah chillun".

On 26/05/2021 14:25, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 26/05/2021 14:11, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 26 May 2021 at 12:57:28 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"
wrote:

On 26/05/2021 12:54, GB wrote:
Â* One official told Italian TV channel Rai 3 that the suspects had
Â* admitted disactivating the emergency brake following "malfunctions in
Â* the cable car", which repair workers had been unable to fix,
according
Â* to Ansa new agency.
Â* https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-57252289
Â* As one does, of course. What a load of plonkers.

How could that have caused the cable to break?

The point of the emergency brake is that the cable car is lifted up
theÂ* the
main 'unbreakable' possibly dual support cables by a relatively
vulnerable,
thin and wincheable cable which is vulnerable to wear and mechanical
misadventure.Â* I'm sure you knew that.


How could that have caused the main 'unbreakable' cable to break?
And what has that to do with the emergency brake?



The puller cable snapped. The emergency brake should have clamped the
car to the support cable, except it had been disabled.

So, the cable car ran downhill on the support cable, until it reached
the pylon, doing around 100 kph, at which point it jumped off the
support cable.

On 26/05/2021 14:31, GB wrote:
On 26/05/2021 14:25, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 26/05/2021 14:11, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 26 May 2021 at 12:57:28 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"
wrote:

On 26/05/2021 12:54, GB wrote:
Â* One official told Italian TV channel Rai 3 that the suspects had
Â* admitted disactivating the emergency brake following
"malfunctions in
Â* the cable car", which repair workers had been unable to fix,
according
Â* to Ansa new agency.
Â* https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-57252289
Â* As one does, of course. What a load of plonkers.

How could that have caused the cable to break?

The point of the emergency brake is that the cable car is lifted up
theÂ* the
main 'unbreakable' possibly dual support cables by a relatively
vulnerable,
thin and wincheable cable which is vulnerable to wear and mechanical
misadventure.Â* I'm sure you knew that.


How could that have caused the main 'unbreakable' cable to break?
And what has that to do with the emergency brake?



The puller cable snapped. The emergency brake should have clamped the
car to the support cable, except it had been disabled.

So, the cable car ran downhill on the support cable, until it reached
the pylon, doing around 100 kph, at which point it jumped off the
support cable.

Ah, so the 'unbreakable' cable didn't break'. the car - supposed also to
have things to stop it happing, jumped off it...

Sorry I am oddly uninterested in this whole incident after my comment in
the DE that 'this is what comes of employing coke sniffing pop stars
instead of competent engineers' was disabled.


--
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as
foolish, and by the rulers as useful.

(Seneca the Younger, 65 AD)

On 26 May 2021 at 14:25:52 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"
wrote:

On 26/05/2021 14:11, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 26 May 2021 at 12:57:28 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"
wrote:

On 26/05/2021 12:54, GB wrote:
One official told Italian TV channel Rai 3 that the suspects had
admitted disactivating the emergency brake following "malfunctions in
the cable car", which repair workers had been unable to fix, according
to Ansa new agency.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-57252289



As one does, of course. What a load of plonkers.

How could that have caused the cable to break?

The point of the emergency brake is that the cable car is lifted up the the
main 'unbreakable' possibly dual support cables by a relatively vulnerable,
thin and wincheable cable which is vulnerable to wear and mechanical
misadventure. I'm sure you knew that.


How could that have caused the main 'unbreakable' cable to break?
And what has that to do with the emergency brake?

The winching cable broke. While this probably related to poor maintenance it
is not automatically criminal negligence because the lifting cable can be
damaged so all cable cars have an emergency brake to stop them sliding back
down the main cable at increasing speed until they crash. QED.

--
Roger Hayter

On 26/05/2021 13:22, GB wrote:
On 26/05/2021 13:02, jon wrote:
On Wed, 26 May 2021 12:57:28 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 26/05/2021 12:54, GB wrote:
One official told Italian TV channel Rai 3 that the suspects had
admitted disactivating the emergency brake following "malfunctions in
the cable car", which repair workers had been unable to fix, according
to Ansa new agency.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-57252289



As one does, of course. What a load of plonkers.

How could that have caused the cable to break?


That was the other problem.



Indeed. Most safety features are not needed until there's a fault.

The poor 5 year old kid is being brought out of an induced coma today,
and at some stage somebody is going to have to tell him his entire
family has been wiped out. Grandparents, parents, sibling.

Yes. I do hope his other grandparents, uncles, aunts or whatever are
well known to him and can take care of him.

On 26 May 2021 at 14:35:11 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"
wrote:

On 26/05/2021 14:31, GB wrote:
On 26/05/2021 14:25, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 26/05/2021 14:11, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 26 May 2021 at 12:57:28 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"
wrote:

On 26/05/2021 12:54, GB wrote:
Â* One official told Italian TV channel Rai 3 that the suspects had
Â* admitted disactivating the emergency brake following
"malfunctions in
Â* the cable car", which repair workers had been unable to fix,
according
Â* to Ansa new agency.
Â* https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-57252289
Â* As one does, of course. What a load of plonkers.

How could that have caused the cable to break?

The point of the emergency brake is that the cable car is lifted up
theÂ* the
main 'unbreakable' possibly dual support cables by a relatively
vulnerable,
thin and wincheable cable which is vulnerable to wear and mechanical
misadventure.Â* I'm sure you knew that.


How could that have caused the main 'unbreakable' cable to break?
And what has that to do with the emergency brake?



The puller cable snapped. The emergency brake should have clamped the
car to the support cable, except it had been disabled.

So, the cable car ran downhill on the support cable, until it reached
the pylon, doing around 100 kph, at which point it jumped off the
support cable.

Ah, so the 'unbreakable' cable didn't break'. the car - supposed also to
have things to stop it happing, jumped off it...

Sorry I am oddly uninterested in this whole incident after my comment in
the DE that 'this is what comes of employing coke sniffing pop stars
instead of competent engineers' was disabled.

Since this was an instance of owners knowingly operating equipment in an
extremely dangerous condition for profit your comment was less apposite than
in other recent Italian disasters.

--
Roger Hayter

On 26/05/2021 14:35, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 26/05/2021 14:31, GB wrote:
On 26/05/2021 14:25, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 26/05/2021 14:11, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 26 May 2021 at 12:57:28 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"
wrote:

On 26/05/2021 12:54, GB wrote:
Â* One official told Italian TV channel Rai 3 that the suspects had
Â* admitted disactivating the emergency brake following
"malfunctions in
Â* the cable car", which repair workers had been unable to fix,
according
Â* to Ansa new agency.
Â* https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-57252289
Â* As one does, of course. What a load of plonkers.

How could that have caused the cable to break?

The point of the emergency brake is that the cable car is lifted up
theÂ* the
main 'unbreakable' possibly dual support cables by a relatively
vulnerable,
thin and wincheable cable which is vulnerable to wear and mechanical
misadventure.Â* I'm sure you knew that.


How could that have caused the main 'unbreakable' cable to break?
And what has that to do with the emergency brake?



The puller cable snapped. The emergency brake should have clamped the
car to the support cable, except it had been disabled.

So, the cable car ran downhill on the support cable, until it reached
the pylon, doing around 100 kph, at which point it jumped off the
support cable.

Ah, so the 'unbreakable' cable didn't break'. the car - supposed also to
have things to stop it happing, jumped off it...

Sorry I am oddly uninterested in this whole incident after my comment in
the DE that 'this is what comes of employing coke sniffing pop stars
instead of competent engineers' was disabled.

The ones that disabled the safety brake were engineers. You can describe
these engineers how you wish.

They probably though elfin safely was a joke act too. What's your
thoughts on H&S? Is there too much, or too little?

I suspect if you had your way there would be no need for a safety brake,
just one unbreakable cable.

On 26/05/2021 14:51, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 26 May 2021 at 14:35:11 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"
wrote:

On 26/05/2021 14:31, GB wrote:
On 26/05/2021 14:25, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 26/05/2021 14:11, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 26 May 2021 at 12:57:28 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"
wrote:

On 26/05/2021 12:54, GB wrote:
Â* One official told Italian TV channel Rai 3 that the suspects had
Â* admitted disactivating the emergency brake following
"malfunctions in
Â* the cable car", which repair workers had been unable to fix,
according
Â* to Ansa new agency.
Â* https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-57252289
Â* As one does, of course. What a load of plonkers.

How could that have caused the cable to break?

The point of the emergency brake is that the cable car is lifted up
theÂ* the
main 'unbreakable' possibly dual support cables by a relatively
vulnerable,
thin and wincheable cable which is vulnerable to wear and mechanical
misadventure.Â* I'm sure you knew that.


How could that have caused the main 'unbreakable' cable to break?
And what has that to do with the emergency brake?



The puller cable snapped. The emergency brake should have clamped the
car to the support cable, except it had been disabled.

So, the cable car ran downhill on the support cable, until it reached
the pylon, doing around 100 kph, at which point it jumped off the
support cable.

Ah, so the 'unbreakable' cable didn't break'. the car - supposed also to
have things to stop it happing, jumped off it...

Sorry I am oddly uninterested in this whole incident after my comment in
the DE that 'this is what comes of employing coke sniffing pop stars
instead of competent engineers' was disabled.

Since this was an instance of owners knowingly operating equipment in an
extremely dangerous condition for profit your comment was less apposite than
in other recent Italian disasters.

In fact your statement exactly bears mine out. Money was not spent on
competent engineers who could have fixed the problem. It should not have
been possible to operate the car with the brake disabled, It should not
have been possible for the car to overspeed with the drive cable broken,
and it should not have been possible for it to jump off the cable under
fault conditions

This is exactly like early lift(elevator) problems where a safety
mechanism that catches the lift if the cables break was mandatory

My impression of having been to Italy is that it is a disaster already.


--
"If you dont read the news paper, you are un-informed. If you read the
news paper, you are mis-informed."

Mark Twain

On 26/05/2021 14:51, Roger Hayter wrote:

Sorry I am oddly uninterested in this whole incident after my comment in
the DE that 'this is what comes of employing coke sniffing pop stars
instead of competent engineers' was disabled.

Since this was an instance of owners knowingly operating equipment in an
extremely dangerous condition for profit your comment was less apposite than
in other recent Italian disasters.


One mitigation for all this may be Covid, curiously enough. The winter
sports season was lost, due to lockdown, so the lift operators may have
been desperately short of money to get engineers in to fix things.

Still, it was a huge risk to take, even for a day. To leave it like that
for weeks was utter madness.

On 26/05/2021 12:57, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 26/05/2021 12:54, GB wrote:
One official told Italian TV channel Rai 3 that the suspects had
admitted disactivating the emergency brake following "malfunctions in
the cable car", which repair workers had been unable to fix, according
to Ansa new agency.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-57252289



As one does, of course. What a load of plonkers.

How could that have caused the cable to break?

I get the impression that the support cable did not break, but the
driven cable did. That should have resulted in the car being held in
place on the support cable by the emergency brake. However since that
had been knobbled, it basically was left to run down the cable at an
ever increasing speed until it was flung off the main support cable at a
pylon.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 26/05/2021 13:36, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The poor 5 year old kid is being brought out of an induced coma today,
and at some stage somebody is going to have to tell him his entire
family has been wiped out. Grandparents, parents, sibling.


There was a time in my early teens when being told that would have made
my day....

Yes but you're a misanthrope.

Bill

On 26/05/2021 14:51, Fredxx wrote:
On 26/05/2021 14:35, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 26/05/2021 14:31, GB wrote:
On 26/05/2021 14:25, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 26/05/2021 14:11, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 26 May 2021 at 12:57:28 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"
wrote:

On 26/05/2021 12:54, GB wrote:
Â* One official told Italian TV channel Rai 3 that the suspects had
Â* admitted disactivating the emergency brake following
"malfunctions in
Â* the cable car", which repair workers had been unable to fix,
according
Â* to Ansa new agency.
Â* https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-57252289
Â* As one does, of course. What a load of plonkers.

How could that have caused the cable to break?

The point of the emergency brake is that the cable car is lifted up
theÂ* the
main 'unbreakable' possibly dual support cables by a relatively
vulnerable,
thin and wincheable cable which is vulnerable to wear and mechanical
misadventure.Â* I'm sure you knew that.


How could that have caused the main 'unbreakable' cable to break?
And what has that to do with the emergency brake?



The puller cable snapped. The emergency brake should have clamped the
car to the support cable, except it had been disabled.

So, the cable car ran downhill on the support cable, until it reached
the pylon, doing around 100 kph, at which point it jumped off the
support cable.

Ah, so the 'unbreakable' cable didn't break'. the car - supposed also
to have things to stop it happing, jumped off it...

Sorry I am oddly uninterested in this whole incident after my comment
in the DE that 'this is what comes of employing coke sniffing pop
stars instead of competent engineers' was disabled.

The ones that disabled the safety brake were engineers.

Unlikely. They will have been mechanics or technicians - Engineers would
understand the safety aspects.

On 26 May 2021 at 21:52:00 BST, "Steve Walker"
wrote:

On 26/05/2021 14:51, Fredxx wrote:
On 26/05/2021 14:35, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 26/05/2021 14:31, GB wrote:
On 26/05/2021 14:25, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 26/05/2021 14:11, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 26 May 2021 at 12:57:28 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"
wrote:

On 26/05/2021 12:54, GB wrote:
Â* One official told Italian TV channel Rai 3 that the suspects had
Â* admitted disactivating the emergency brake following
"malfunctions in
Â* the cable car", which repair workers had been unable to fix,
according
Â* to Ansa new agency.
Â* https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-57252289
Â* As one does, of course. What a load of plonkers.

How could that have caused the cable to break?

The point of the emergency brake is that the cable car is lifted up
theÂ* the
main 'unbreakable' possibly dual support cables by a relatively
vulnerable,
thin and wincheable cable which is vulnerable to wear and mechanical
misadventure.Â* I'm sure you knew that.


How could that have caused the main 'unbreakable' cable to break?
And what has that to do with the emergency brake?



The puller cable snapped. The emergency brake should have clamped the
car to the support cable, except it had been disabled.

So, the cable car ran downhill on the support cable, until it reached
the pylon, doing around 100 kph, at which point it jumped off the
support cable.

Ah, so the 'unbreakable' cable didn't break'. the car - supposed also
to have things to stop it happing, jumped off it...

Sorry I am oddly uninterested in this whole incident after my comment
in the DE that 'this is what comes of employing coke sniffing pop
stars instead of competent engineers' was disabled.

The ones that disabled the safety brake were engineers.

Unlikely. They will have been mechanics or technicians - Engineers would
understand the safety aspects.

We weren't there; the technicians may have disabled the safety brake so the
*empty* car could have been moved to a safe parking position. It may have
been a purely management decision to use it for passengers.

--
Roger Hayter

On 26/05/2021 15:37, GB wrote:
On 26/05/2021 14:51, Roger Hayter wrote:

Sorry I am oddly uninterested in this whole incident after my comment in
the DE that 'this is what comes of employing coke sniffing pop stars
instead of competent engineers' was disabled.

Since this was an instance of owners knowingly operatingÂ* equipment
in an
extremely dangerous condition for profit your comment was less
apposite than
in other recent Italian disasters.


One mitigation for all this may be Covid, curiously enough. The winter
sports season was lost, due to lockdown, so the lift operators may have
been desperately short of money to get engineers in to fix things.

The only "mitigation" was that the car carried half the normal number of
people because of "social distancing" requirements.

--
Max Demian

"Steve Walker" wrote in message
...
On 26/05/2021 12:54, GB wrote:
One official told Italian TV channel Rai 3 that the suspects had admitted
disactivating the emergency brake following "malfunctions in the cable
car", which repair workers had been unable to fix, according to Ansa new
agency.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-57252289



As one does, of course. What a load of plonkers.

Amazing.

I could understand disabling the emergency brake to get it down, empty,
for maintenance, but what on Earth made them think it was okay to carry on
running it, in passenger service, like that?

They are Italians, thats what made them think that.

"GB" wrote in message
...
On 26/05/2021 13:02, jon wrote:
On Wed, 26 May 2021 12:57:28 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 26/05/2021 12:54, GB wrote:
One official told Italian TV channel Rai 3 that the suspects had
admitted disactivating the emergency brake following "malfunctions in
the cable car", which repair workers had been unable to fix, according
to Ansa new agency.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-57252289



As one does, of course. What a load of plonkers.

How could that have caused the cable to break?


That was the other problem.



Indeed. Most safety features are not needed until there's a fault.

The poor 5 year old kid is being brought out of an induced coma today, and
at some stage somebody is going to have to tell him his entire family has
been wiped out. Grandparents, parents, sibling.

Only two of the grandparents. Not clear about the other two.

On Thu, 27 May 2021 08:02:24 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

--
about senile Rot Speed:
"This is like having a conversation with someone with brain damage."
MID:

On Thu, 27 May 2021 07:59:12 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH troll**** unread

--
John addressing the senile Australian pest:
"You are a complete idiot. But you make me larf. LOL"
MID:

Well maybe they did not do any maintenance at all. I suspect that this is
yet another case of somebody elses job.

Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 26/05/2021 12:54, GB wrote:
One official told Italian TV channel Rai 3 that the suspects had admitted
disactivating the emergency brake following "malfunctions in the cable
car", which repair workers had been unable to fix, according to Ansa new
agency.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-57252289



As one does, of course. What a load of plonkers.

How could that have caused the cable to break?


--
To ban Christmas, simply give turkeys the vote.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 26/05/2021 12:54, GB wrote:
One official told Italian TV channel Rai 3 that the suspects had admitted
disactivating the emergency brake following "malfunctions in the cable
car", which repair workers had been unable to fix, according to Ansa new
agency.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-57252289



As one does, of course. What a load of plonkers.

How could that have caused the cable to break?

It didn't. But when the cable did break (for reasons unrelated to the
disabling of safety brake), there was nothing to stop the car running away
out of control.

On 26/05/2021 12:54, GB wrote:
One official told Italian TV channel Rai 3 that the suspects had
admitted disactivating the emergency brake following "malfunctions in
the cable car", which repair workers had been unable to fix, according
to Ansa new agency.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-57252289



As one does, of course. What a load of plonkers.

The cable that broke would have been a multi-strand cable. That is to
ensure that the failure of a single strand does not release the car. It
also means that it is very unlikely that all the strands will fail at
the same time. I wouldn't be surprised if they found signs of
progressive partial failures in the cable, which might be what was
triggering the emergency brake.

--
Colin Bignell

On 27 May 2021 at 10:34:42 BST, "nightjar" wrote:

On 26/05/2021 12:54, GB wrote:
One official told Italian TV channel Rai 3 that the suspects had
admitted disactivating the emergency brake following "malfunctions in
the cable car", which repair workers had been unable to fix, according
to Ansa new agency.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-57252289



As one does, of course. What a load of plonkers.

The cable that broke would have been a multi-strand cable. That is to
ensure that the failure of a single strand does not release the car. It
also means that it is very unlikely that all the strands will fail at
the same time. I wouldn't be surprised if they found signs of
progressive partial failures in the cable, which might be what was
triggering the emergency brake.

The purpose of being multi-stranded is so they can be wound round a drum (or
generally so they are stronger when flexed because a solid cable would have
excessive tension in the outer side even with bending under its own weight).
But otherwise I agree the failure *might* have been progressive.

--
Roger Hayter

On 27/05/2021 10:55, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 27 May 2021 at 10:34:42 BST, "nightjar" wrote:

On 26/05/2021 12:54, GB wrote:
One official told Italian TV channel Rai 3 that the suspects had
admitted disactivating the emergency brake following "malfunctions in
the cable car", which repair workers had been unable to fix, according
to Ansa new agency.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-57252289



As one does, of course. What a load of plonkers.

The cable that broke would have been a multi-strand cable. That is to
ensure that the failure of a single strand does not release the car. It
also means that it is very unlikely that all the strands will fail at
the same time. I wouldn't be surprised if they found signs of
progressive partial failures in the cable, which might be what was
triggering the emergency brake.

The purpose of being multi-stranded is so they can be wound round a drum (or
generally so they are stronger when flexed because a solid cable would have
excessive tension in the outer side even with bending under its own weight).

That too :-)

But otherwise I agree the failure *might* have been progressive.



--
Colin Bignell

There was a fault with the emergency brake that meant it kept applying
when it should not have, so they disabled it. It was disabled for
quite a while too, before the time occurred when it was needed to work
as intended.

Some cable cars seem to have just one cable that is both support and
for pulling. The ones that traverse the Thames only seem to have a
single cable.

Andrew


On 27/05/2021 08:22, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
Well maybe they did not do any maintenance at all. I suspect that this is
yet another case of somebody elses job.

Brian

On 27/05/2021 10:55, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 27 May 2021 at 10:34:42 BST, "nightjar" wrote:

On 26/05/2021 12:54, GB wrote:
One official told Italian TV channel Rai 3 that the suspects had
admitted disactivating the emergency brake following "malfunctions in
the cable car", which repair workers had been unable to fix, according
to Ansa new agency.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-57252289



As one does, of course. What a load of plonkers.

The cable that broke would have been a multi-strand cable. That is to
ensure that the failure of a single strand does not release the car. It
also means that it is very unlikely that all the strands will fail at
the same time. I wouldn't be surprised if they found signs of
progressive partial failures in the cable, which might be what was
triggering the emergency brake.

The purpose of being multi-stranded is so they can be wound round a drum (or
generally so they are stronger when flexed because a solid cable would have
excessive tension in the outer side even with bending under its own weight).
But otherwise I agree the failure *might* have been progressive.

the purpose of stranded cable has nothing whatever to do with being
wound on a drum.
And everything to do with the failure of one strand nit propagating a
stress fracture throughout the whole cable

all suspension bridge cables are multi-element - strands or chain links
- for this reason. They aren't wound on drums


--
"When one man dies it's a tragedy. When thousands die it's statistics."

Josef Stalin

On 26/05/2021 22:46, Max Demian wrote:
On 26/05/2021 15:37, GB wrote:
On 26/05/2021 14:51, Roger Hayter wrote:

Sorry I am oddly uninterested in this whole incident after my
comment in
the DE that 'this is what comes of employing coke sniffing pop stars
instead of competent engineers' was disabled.

Since this was an instance of owners knowingly operatingÂ* equipment
in an
extremely dangerous condition for profit your comment was less
apposite than
in other recent Italian disasters.


One mitigation for all this may be Covid, curiously enough. The winter
sports season was lost, due to lockdown, so the lift operators may
have been desperately short of money to get engineers in to fix things.

The only "mitigation" was that the car carried half the normal number of
people because of "social distancing" requirements.


I agree that mitigation was the wrong word.

On 26/05/2021 22:04, Roger Hayter wrote:

We weren't there; the technicians may have disabled the safety brake so the
*empty* car could have been moved to a safe parking position. It may have
been a purely management decision to use it for passengers.


Suppose that the emergency brake applied itself halfway through the run,
with a cabin load of passengers 30 metres up in the air.

Do you evacuate them all by rope and then walk/carry them down to the
bottom of the hill?

Or do you disable the brake and run the whole car load down to the bottom?

Neither option is safe, as the evacuation could easily result in
casualties. Is it obviously safer to do the evacuation, then move the
empty car?

On 27/05/2021 16:46, GB wrote:
On 26/05/2021 22:04, Roger Hayter wrote:

We weren't there; the technicians may have disabled the safety brake
so the
*empty* car could have been moved to a safe parking position.Â* It may
have
been a purely management decision to use it for passengers.


Suppose that the emergency brake applied itself halfway through the run,
with a cabin load of passengers 30 metres up in the air.

Do you evacuate them all by rope and then walk/carry them down to the
bottom of the hill?

Let them climb out the hatch on the roof and be collected by man
attached to a winch on the helicopter - air sea rescue style.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 27/05/2021 14:25, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 27/05/2021 10:55, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 27 May 2021 at 10:34:42 BST, "nightjar" wrote:

On 26/05/2021 12:54, GB wrote:
Â* One official told Italian TV channel Rai 3 that the suspects had
Â* admitted disactivating the emergency brake following "malfunctions in
Â* the cable car", which repair workers had been unable to fix,
according
Â* to Ansa new agency.
Â* https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-57252289
Â* As one does, of course. What a load of plonkers.

The cable that broke would have been a multi-strand cable. That is to
ensure that the failure of a single strand does not release the car. It
also means that it is very unlikely that all the strands will fail at
the same time. I wouldn't be surprised if they found signs of
progressive partial failures in the cable, which might be what was
triggering the emergency brake.

The purpose of being multi-stranded is so they can be wound round a
drum (or
generally so they are stronger when flexed because a solid cable would
have
excessive tension in the outer side even with bending under its own
weight).
But otherwise I agree the failure *might* have been progressive.

the purpose of stranded cable has nothing whatever to do with being
wound on a drum.

Of course it does.

And everything to do with the failure of one strand nit propagating a
stress fracture throughout the whole cable

That is also true, and a benefit, but I would like to see you deploy a
"single stand cable" (or steel bar as we might otherwise call it!) that
can be strung up through the winding gear for a cable car.

all suspension bridge cables are multi-element - strands or chain links
- for this reason. They aren't wound on drums

Apart from those that are solid links or rods of course.

Have you ever though of how you would get your solid half mile long
"cable" on site when building a suspension bridge if you could not coil
it and deliver it on a drum?


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...

the purpose of stranded cable has nothing whatever to do with being wound
on a drum.

Of course it does.

And everything to do with the failure of one strand nit propagating a
stress fracture throughout the whole cable

That is also true, and a benefit, but I would like to see you deploy a
"single strand cable" (or steel bar as we might otherwise call it!) that
can be strung up through the winding gear for a cable car.

Yes I would say that there are two benefits to multi-strand cable:

- gradual failure, where one failure does not cause the whole cable to break

- increased flexibility for coiling on a drum and feeding around pulleys on
the linkage between the car and the cable

Which of those two factors is the more important is difficult to say: they
go hand-in-hand.



It's why electric cable for installation in conduits of a house can be
single-strand (ie solid) but the leads of appliances which are plugged into
that wiring have to use multi-strand wires: for increased flexibility (and
springing back to a "neutral" un-bent position) and greater resilience
against being repeatedly flexed during normal usage.

On 30/05/2021 19:48, NY wrote:
"John Rumm" wrote in message
...

the purpose of stranded cable has nothing whatever to do with being
wound on a drum.

Of course it does.

And everything to do with the failure of one strand nit propagating a
stress fracture throughout the whole cable

That is also true, and a benefit, but I would like to see you deploy a
"single strand cable" (or steel bar as we might otherwise call it!)
that can be strung up through the winding gear for a cable car.

Yes I would say that there are two benefits to multi-strand cable:

- gradual failure, where one failure does not cause the whole cable to
break

- increased flexibility for coiling on a drum and feeding around pulleys
on the linkage between the car and the cable

Which of those two factors is the more important is difficult to say:
they go hand-in-hand.



It's why electric cable for installation in conduits of a house can be
single-strand (ie solid) but the leads of appliances which are plugged
into that wiring have to use multi-strand wires: for increased
flexibility (and springing back to a "neutral" un-bent position) and
greater resilience against being repeatedly flexed during normal usage.

The other point that all of you have missed is that at least in the case
of a winding cable, failed strands are normally at the outside (whether
caused by wear, mechanical damage, or corrosion because of inadequate
lubrication), and so readily visible in the periodic insurance
inspections, not to mention to the operators themselves.

Suspension bridge cables are another matter because corrosion or stress
corrosion can cause inner strands to fail. IIRC there are clever NDT
methods, also some cables use continuous acoustic monitoring to detect
strands snapping.