Hi All,

The study project continues and now looking at the electrics. Where the cupboards are going, there are some plug sockets on the wall which I intend to move into the cupboards for printers as well as running power to the desk via some sort of "extension lead".

The cupboards are flush against the skirting boards so have a gap between them and the wall - with the 18mm cupboard side and the 20mm skirting there is about 38mm between the inside surface of the cupboard and the original wall that the current socket is mounted on.

In order to comply with current regs, can I fix the sockets to the sides of the cupboard and leave the wiring behind it in the side of the cupboard/ gap behind? Other option would be to fit a plasterboard back box and connect the wires in that. Would appreciate your thoughts.

thanks

Lee.

On Sat, 1 May 2021 12:36:54 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

Hi All,

The study project continues and now looking at the electrics. Where the cupboards are going, there are some plug sockets on the wall which I intend to move into the cupboards for printers as well as running power to the desk via some sort of "extension lead".

Depending on the construction of the cupboard and value etc, I've
simply cut a hole in the back of it (Multitool) and then plugged
whatever straight though the hole?

Cheers, T i m

On Saturday, 1 May 2021 at 21:05:36 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Sat, 1 May 2021 12:36:54 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

Hi All,

The study project continues and now looking at the electrics. Where the cupboards are going, there are some plug sockets on the wall which I intend to move into the cupboards for printers as well as running power to the desk via some sort of "extension lead".
Depending on the construction of the cupboard and value etc, I've
simply cut a hole in the back of it (Multitool) and then plugged
whatever straight though the hole?

Cheers, T i m

Hi Tim,

These are the cupboards I am making for my study (18mm ply). I had originally thought of doing the same but thought moving the sockets in to the cupboard would look neater. Also given the gap, it would mean cutting more than the size of the socket out of the cupboard to cater for the lead below the plug to come back into the cupboard.

Thanks

Lee,

On Sat, 1 May 2021 13:13:05 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

snip

Hi Tim,

These are the cupboards I am making for my study (18mm ply). I had originally thought of doing the same but thought moving the sockets in to the cupboard would look neater.

Ah, I forgot I'm a 'utilitarian ... ;-)

Also given the gap, it would mean cutting more than the size of the socket out of the cupboard to cater for the lead below the plug to come back into the cupboard.

When I've done it I find the cable can drop down the gap and then loop
back in though the hole.

Aren't you going to put anything into these cupboards then? ;-)

Cheers, T i m

wrote:
In order to comply with current regs, can I fix the sockets to the sides
of the cupboard and leave the wiring behind it in the side of the
cupboard/ gap behind? Other option would be to fit a plasterboard back
box and connect the wires in that. Would appreciate your thoughts.

What kind of current do you need?

I'd think about fitting pattresses whereever you prefer, and running some
flex terminated in 13A plug(s) to the sockets. That makes it a portable
'extension lead' and you don't have to worry about regs, and you can also
remove it should you ever need to move the cupboards. The plug fuse will
effectively make it a fused spur. It also makes doing any testing on the
circuits easier as you can disconnect the cupboard wiring.

Theo

On Saturday, 1 May 2021 at 23:21:33 UTC+1, Theo wrote:
wrote:
In order to comply with current regs, can I fix the sockets to the sides
of the cupboard and leave the wiring behind it in the side of the
cupboard/ gap behind? Other option would be to fit a plasterboard back
box and connect the wires in that. Would appreciate your thoughts.
What kind of current do you need?

I'd think about fitting pattresses whereever you prefer, and running some
flex terminated in 13A plug(s) to the sockets. That makes it a portable
'extension lead' and you don't have to worry about regs, and you can also
remove it should you ever need to move the cupboards. The plug fuse will
effectively make it a fused spur. It also makes doing any testing on the
circuits easier as you can disconnect the cupboard wiring.

Theo

The current requirement is low. In this cupboard I plan to house the printer and then run an extension lead around the back of this unit and the one next to it to the underside of the desk to power monitor/ PC etc. I guess one issue with running an extension lead from the existing wall socket into the cupboard is that the socket will still have the be accessible from the cupboard to change fuse should it pop so would be back to cutting enough out of the unit side to get access to the socket and be able to route the flex under the plug back into the unit.

On 01/05/2021 20:36, wrote:
Hi All,

The study project continues and now looking at the electrics. Where the cupboards are going, there are some plug sockets on the wall which I intend to move into the cupboards for printers as well as running power to the desk via some sort of "extension lead".

The cupboards are flush against the skirting boards so have a gap between them and the wall - with the 18mm cupboard side and the 20mm skirting there is about 38mm between the inside surface of the cupboard and the original wall that the current socket is mounted on.

In order to comply with current regs, can I fix the sockets to the sides of the cupboard and leave the wiring behind it in the side of the cupboard/ gap behind? Other option would be to fit a plasterboard back box and connect the wires in that. Would appreciate your thoughts.

thanks



Are the cables long enough to move into the cupboard or do you need to
extend them?

--
Adam

Are we to assume said cupboards have no back at all then or what, If they
do, most seem to be made of very thin material. Maybe it is enough to just
cut holes bigger than the sockets and leave them be?
Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
" wrote in message
...
Hi All,

The study project continues and now looking at the electrics. Where the
cupboards are going, there are some plug sockets on the wall which I intend
to move into the cupboards for printers as well as running power to the desk
via some sort of "extension lead".

The cupboards are flush against the skirting boards so have a gap between
them and the wall - with the 18mm cupboard side and the 20mm skirting there
is about 38mm between the inside surface of the cupboard and the original
wall that the current socket is mounted on.

In order to comply with current regs, can I fix the sockets to the sides of
the cupboard and leave the wiring behind it in the side of the cupboard/ gap
behind? Other option would be to fit a plasterboard back box and connect the
wires in that. Would appreciate your thoughts.

thanks

Lee.

No is there enough cable on the sockets to allow for spacers like the sort
you can fit around light switches? Then you only need to source long enough
screws for the socket securing. and the cables exit inside the cupboard.
Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
" wrote in message
...
On Saturday, 1 May 2021 at 21:05:36 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Sat, 1 May 2021 12:36:54 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

Hi All,

The study project continues and now looking at the electrics. Where the
cupboards are going, there are some plug sockets on the wall which I
intend to move into the cupboards for printers as well as running power
to the desk via some sort of "extension lead".
Depending on the construction of the cupboard and value etc, I've
simply cut a hole in the back of it (Multitool) and then plugged
whatever straight though the hole?

Cheers, T i m

Hi Tim,

These are the cupboards I am making for my study (18mm ply). I had
originally thought of doing the same but thought moving the sockets in to
the cupboard would look neater. Also given the gap, it would mean cutting
more than the size of the socket out of the cupboard to cater for the lead
below the plug to come back into the cupboard.

Thanks

Lee,

On 01/05/2021 23:21, Theo wrote:
wrote:
In order to comply with current regs, can I fix the sockets to the sides
of the cupboard and leave the wiring behind it in the side of the
cupboard/ gap behind? Other option would be to fit a plasterboard back
box and connect the wires in that. Would appreciate your thoughts.

What kind of current do you need?

I'd think about fitting pattresses whereever you prefer, and running some
flex terminated in 13A plug(s) to the sockets. That makes it a portable
'extension lead' and you don't have to worry about regs, and you can also
remove it should you ever need to move the cupboards. The plug fuse will
effectively make it a fused spur. It also makes doing any testing on the
circuits easier as you can disconnect the cupboard wiring.

Theo

Its probly not relevant, but my 'hobby room' has kitchen units and a
top, with a plug in the wall going to a master switch off which 6 double
sockets are mounted (probably completely illegally) in metal back boxes
screwed to holes cut in the worktop.

That way I can switch the whole bench off.

--
"If you dont read the news paper, you are un-informed. If you read the
news paper, you are mis-informed."

Mark Twain

On 02/05/2021 10:01, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/05/2021 23:21, Theo wrote:
wrote:
In order to comply with current regs, can I fix the sockets to the sides
of the cupboard and leave the wiring behind it in the side of the
cupboard/ gap behind?Â* Other option would be to fit a plasterboard back
box and connect the wires in that.Â* Would appreciate your thoughts.

What kind of current do you need?

I'd think about fitting pattresses whereever you prefer, and running some
flex terminated in 13A plug(s) to the sockets.Â* That makes it a portable
'extension lead' and you don't have to worry about regs, and you can also
remove it should you ever need to move the cupboards.Â* The plug fuse will
effectively make it a fused spur.Â* It also makes doing any testing on the
circuits easier as you can disconnect the cupboard wiring.

Theo

Its probly not relevant, but my 'hobby room' has kitchen units and a
top, with a plug in the wall going to a master switch off which 6 double
sockets are mounted (probably completely illegally) in metal back boxes
screwed to holes cut in the worktop.

That way I can switch the whole bench off.

It does not sound illegal to me.

--
Adam

On Sat, 01 May 2021 21:05:35 +0100, T i m wrote:

On Sat, 1 May 2021 12:36:54 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

Hi All,

The study project continues and now looking at the electrics. Where the cupboards are going, there are some plug sockets on the wall which I intend to move into the cupboards for printers as well as running power to the desk via some sort of "extension lead".

Depending on the construction of the cupboard and value etc, I've
simply cut a hole in the back of it (Multitool) and then plugged
whatever straight though the hole?

Should sockets only be affexed to a non combustible surface though?
The electrician told me that sockets previously in the skirting board
should be chased into the plaster higher up in case they overheated.

On Sun, 02 May 2021 11:03:13 +0100, Scott
wrote:

On Sat, 01 May 2021 21:05:35 +0100, T i m wrote:

On Sat, 1 May 2021 12:36:54 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

Hi All,

The study project continues and now looking at the electrics. Where the cupboards are going, there are some plug sockets on the wall which I intend to move into the cupboards for printers as well as running power to the desk via some sort of "extension lead".

Depending on the construction of the cupboard and value etc, I've
simply cut a hole in the back of it (Multitool) and then plugged
whatever straight though the hole?

Should sockets only be affexed to a non combustible surface though?
The electrician told me that sockets previously in the skirting board
should be chased into the plaster higher up in case they overheated.

I have avoided any such questions / issues by leaving the sockets
where they are and making a neat hole to access the socket / switches.

The last was a large (and full) wardrobe at daughters that ended up in
front of one of the very few (double) sockets in the place. We wanted
to plug a trailing socket in and have it come out from the side of the
wardrobe for phone and laptop chargers but didn't want to have to move
the wardrobe to do so.

I measured from the outside of the wardrobe to the edge of the socket
and put a vertical mark inside the back of the wardrobe to one side of
the socket and measured another socket in the flat to get the width
and make another mark. I then got a rough idea of the height of the
socket from the others and used a multitool to cut a test letterbox
slot in the back panel of the wardrobe (as it happened it was behind
some draws that I had pulled out) to confirm the height. I then
drilled 4 holes in the corners and joined them together with the
multitools, a quick sand of the edges and then took the plug off the
end of the trailing lead, fished it round the back of the wardrobe and
though the hole and put the plug back on, Then we could plug it in and
tuck the wire down the back and turn it on and still be able to get to
the plug / switch fairly easily by removing one draw. The trailing
socket had a switch on it in any case so it could all be turned off
easily if they were going out.

I did a similar thing when I fitted out the box room for my
stepdaughter 30+ years ago for some full_room_width underdesk storage
that again would have blocked access to a double socket. At least you
can still pull the plug (to replace a fuse or work on something
safely) and whilst neither instance was on show, when you did see it
it didn't look in any way bad or untidy to my (utilitarian) mind, just
practical access to a couple of sockets. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

wrote:
The current requirement is low. In this cupboard I plan to house the
printer and then run an extension lead around the back of this unit and
the one next to it to the underside of the desk to power monitor/ PC etc.
I guess one issue with running an extension lead from the existing wall
socket into the cupboard is that the socket will still have the be
accessible from the cupboard to change fuse should it pop so would be back
to cutting enough out of the unit side to get access to the socket and be
able to route the flex under the plug back into the unit.

Thinking about this like wiring a kitchen, where you might have a socket for
the dishwasher on the carcass under the sink, the way that's done is a
switched FCU on the ring then a spur to the socket. You still need access
to change the fuse in the FCU and isolate if needed.

You could add a cord-outlet FCU on the wall in an accessible place and wire
it into the ring. Then wire (flex or T&E) your sockets from there. That
would save depth over having a socket.

Theo

On 02/05/2021 10:52, ARW wrote:
On 02/05/2021 10:01, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/05/2021 23:21, Theo wrote:
wrote:
In order to comply with current regs, can I fix the sockets to the
sides
of the cupboard and leave the wiring behind it in the side of the
cupboard/ gap behind?Â* Other option would be to fit a plasterboard back
box and connect the wires in that.Â* Would appreciate your thoughts.

What kind of current do you need?

I'd think about fitting pattresses whereever you prefer, and running
some
flex terminated in 13A plug(s) to the sockets.Â* That makes it a portable
'extension lead' and you don't have to worry about regs, and you can
also
remove it should you ever need to move the cupboards.Â* The plug fuse
will
effectively make it a fused spur.Â* It also makes doing any testing on
the
circuits easier as you can disconnect the cupboard wiring.

Theo

Its probly not relevant, but my 'hobby room' has kitchen units and a
top, with a plug in the wall going to a master switch off which 6
double sockets are mounted (probably completely illegally) in metal
back boxes screwed to holes cut in the worktop.

That way I can switch the whole bench off.

It does not sound illegal to me.

It is similar to my garage. By the door I have a lightswitch and a power
switch. The power switch turns the supply to the sockets on and off (it
is sufficiently rated), allowing me to be sure that power is off
everything when I lock up. There is one double socket attached to the
rafters that remains permanently live for charging the car or a battery
tool.

On 01/05/2021 20:36, wrote:
Hi All,

The study project continues and now looking at the electrics. Where
the cupboards are going, there are some plug sockets on the wall
which I intend to move into the cupboards for printers as well as
running power to the desk via some sort of "extension lead".

The cupboards are flush against the skirting boards so have a gap
between them and the wall - with the 18mm cupboard side and the 20mm
skirting there is about 38mm between the inside surface of the
cupboard and the original wall that the current socket is mounted
on.

In order to comply with current regs, can I fix the sockets to the
sides of the cupboard and leave the wiring behind it in the side of
the cupboard/ gap behind? Other option would be to fit a plasterboard
back box and connect the wires in that. Would appreciate your
thoughts.

You can either use dry lining boxes in your cupboard, or you may be able
to surface mount a regular metal back box on the wall behind that pokes
into a hole in the cupboard.

As to the original socket, I would be tempted to remove it, and crimp
and heat-shrink extensions to its cables (or use wagos in the original
back box and stick a blanking plate over it), to enable them to reach
your new sockets. Clip those to the wall, and try to stay in a cable
zone (i.e. in line with the new socket since they won't be out of reach
of screws etc.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 01/05/2021 23:21, Theo wrote:
wrote:
In order to comply with current regs, can I fix the sockets to the sides
of the cupboard and leave the wiring behind it in the side of the
cupboard/ gap behind? Other option would be to fit a plasterboard back
box and connect the wires in that. Would appreciate your thoughts.

What kind of current do you need?

I'd think about fitting pattresses whereever you prefer, and running some
flex terminated in 13A plug(s) to the sockets.

Although not a good move if the plug does not remain accessible so that
you can replace the fuse if required.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 02/05/2021 12:20, Theo wrote:
wrote:
The current requirement is low. In this cupboard I plan to house the
printer and then run an extension lead around the back of this unit and
the one next to it to the underside of the desk to power monitor/ PC etc.
I guess one issue with running an extension lead from the existing wall
socket into the cupboard is that the socket will still have the be
accessible from the cupboard to change fuse should it pop so would be back
to cutting enough out of the unit side to get access to the socket and be
able to route the flex under the plug back into the unit.

Thinking about this like wiring a kitchen, where you might have a socket for
the dishwasher on the carcass under the sink, the way that's done is a
switched FCU on the ring then a spur to the socket. You still need access
to change the fuse in the FCU and isolate if needed.

You could add a cord-outlet FCU on the wall in an accessible place and wire
it into the ring. Then wire (flex or T&E) your sockets from there. That
would save depth over having a socket.

You seem to be going to some effort to lash up a solution that would
actually be easier to do as a proper circuit extension.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 02/05/2021 09:39, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
Are we to assume said cupboards have no back at all then or what, If they
do, most seem to be made of very thin material. Maybe it is enough to just
cut holes bigger than the sockets and leave them be?

He is building these from scratch Brian, so not your normal flatpack
style stuff.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm wrote:
You seem to be going to some effort to lash up a solution that would
actually be easier to do as a proper circuit extension.

The OP hasn't made it clear if this is 'fabric', like a stud wall, or
'furniture', like a freestanding wardrobe. Fabric would be part of the
fixed wiring installation, whereas it wouldn't be a good idea to hardwire an
item that could be moved around because moving it around could affect the
rest of the circuit (breaking the ring or loose connections).

There is a sort of ambiguous space in the way that fitted kitchens have
sockets on the carcassing - they're freestanding and in theory movable, but
it practice pretty fixed. The FCU approach addresses that because it means
it's possible to remove the unit by simply unwiring the cable from the FCU
without disturbing the rest of the circuit wiring, and it's possible to
isolate the socket (for example you have a leaky sink over the dishwasher
socket).

Without knowing the details it's hard to make the tradeoffs.

Theo

On 02/05/2021 12:38, Owain Lastname wrote:
On Sunday, 2 May 2021 at 11:03:17 UTC+1, Scott wrote:
Should sockets only be affexed to a non combustible surface though?
The electrician told me that sockets previously in the skirting board
should be chased into the plaster higher up in case they overheated.

They should be in non combustible back boxes.

Some older types of socket didn't have a back box or pattress and mounted on or in the skirting board.

I think that my parents may still have one lightswitch (the landing
light) in a wooden back box.

On 02/05/2021 12:20, Theo wrote:
wrote:
The current requirement is low. In this cupboard I plan to house the
printer and then run an extension lead around the back of this unit and
the one next to it to the underside of the desk to power monitor/ PC etc.
I guess one issue with running an extension lead from the existing wall
socket into the cupboard is that the socket will still have the be
accessible from the cupboard to change fuse should it pop so would be back
to cutting enough out of the unit side to get access to the socket and be
able to route the flex under the plug back into the unit.

Thinking about this like wiring a kitchen, where you might have a socket for
the dishwasher on the carcass under the sink, the way that's done is a
switched FCU on the ring then a spur to the socket. You still need access
to change the fuse in the FCU and isolate if needed.


If done properly then it's a 20A DP switch over the counter.


--
Adam

On 02/05/2021 15:28, Steve Walker wrote:
On 02/05/2021 12:38, Owain Lastname wrote:
On Sunday, 2 May 2021 at 11:03:17 UTC+1, Scott wrote:
Should sockets only be affexed to a non combustible surface though?
The electrician told me that sockets previously in the skirting board
should be chased into the plaster higher up in case they overheated.

They should be in non combustible back boxes.

Some older types of socket didn't have a back box or pattress and
mounted on or in the skirting board.

I think that my parents may still have one lightswitch (the landing
light) in a wooden back box.



There were proper wooden backboxes and of course switches just sunk into
the architrave etc - especially between two touching architrave on a
small landing..

Of course this was not a problem until they invented plastic consumer
units:-)

--
Adam

On 02/05/2021 15:23, Theo wrote:
John Rumm wrote:
You seem to be going to some effort to lash up a solution that would
actually be easier to do as a proper circuit extension.

The OP hasn't made it clear if this is 'fabric', like a stud wall, or
'furniture', like a freestanding wardrobe. Fabric would be part of the
fixed wiring installation, whereas it wouldn't be a good idea to hardwire an
item that could be moved around because moving it around could affect the
rest of the circuit (breaking the ring or loose connections).

I am assuming this is a continuation from the thread on "Building
cupboards and shelves" - i.e. a "built in" style set of cupboard and
shelves.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Sunday, 2 May 2021 at 17:28:31 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 02/05/2021 15:23, Theo wrote:
John Rumm wrote:
You seem to be going to some effort to lash up a solution that would
actually be easier to do as a proper circuit extension.

The OP hasn't made it clear if this is 'fabric', like a stud wall, or
'furniture', like a freestanding wardrobe. Fabric would be part of the
fixed wiring installation, whereas it wouldn't be a good idea to hardwire an
item that could be moved around because moving it around could affect the
rest of the circuit (breaking the ring or loose connections).
I am assuming this is a continuation from the thread on "Building
cupboards and shelves" - i.e. a "built in" style set of cupboard and
shelves.
--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Yes all part of the study refit project Fortunately, the cables in the original sockets were long enough to stretch into the cupboard so decided to cut out the side of the unit (18mm ply) and fit a plasterboard back box. The printers can then plug directly into one of the sockets and the extension lead for the desk to the other one.