Just over three years ago I had a major loft conversion done on my
semi-detached sixties bungalow: the process included removing and replacing
all the existing ground floor ceilings and building above them with a timber
carcass and new roof.

As expected, everything took a while to settle and establish itself and
there was some evidence of a small amount of movement, most noticeable in
the fit of a couple of sliding doors. But before long everything was fine.

Then in the last few weeks, the new ceilings/loft area floors suddenly
became startlingly noisy, emitting what I can best describe as intermittent
sharp (and loud) cracks. Since this mostly happens towards evening I'm
inclined to put it down to expansion and contraction, though there are also
isolated incidents of it during the day.

Am I right? And if so, why is it happening now? And should I be concerned?

Many thanks.

On Tuesday, 13 April 2021 at 12:17:14 UTC+1, Bert Coules wrote:
Just over three years ago I had a major loft conversion done on my
semi-detached sixties bungalow: the process included removing and replacing
all the existing ground floor ceilings and building above them with a timber
carcass and new roof.

As expected, everything took a while to settle and establish itself and
there was some evidence of a small amount of movement, most noticeable in
the fit of a couple of sliding doors. But before long everything was fine.

Then in the last few weeks, the new ceilings/loft area floors suddenly
became startlingly noisy, emitting what I can best describe as intermittent
sharp (and loud) cracks. Since this mostly happens towards evening I'm
inclined to put it down to expansion and contraction, though there are also
isolated incidents of it during the day.

Am I right? And if so, why is it happening now? And should I be concerned?

Many thanks.
That does not sound good, do you live in a former mining area or is the area prone to sink holes. Some creaking is not usually an issue but loud cracks suggest further investigation is needed?

Richard

"Tricky Dicky" wrote:

That does not sound good, do you live in a former mining area or is the
area prone to sink holes?
Some creaking is not usually an issue but loud cracks suggest further
investigation is needed.

Thanks for your thoughts. No to the mining area and sink holes question.
If there was something serious happening I would have expected it to be
evident visually: cracks in plaster, displacement of the plasterboard panels
in the downstairs ceilings, something on those lines - but there's nothing
(at least nothing so far).

Yes is the bungalow built on a concrete raft over an old clay quarry? There
is a house not far from me like that and the raft is beginning to crack, one
assumes due to subsidence under it, the road outside has also developed
cracks and a definite dip, and the porch fell off a couple of years ago.
How long are such fixes supposed to last I wonder, these were put up in the
1960s.
Brian

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This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
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"Tricky Dicky" wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, 13 April 2021 at 12:17:14 UTC+1, Bert Coules wrote:
Just over three years ago I had a major loft conversion done on my
semi-detached sixties bungalow: the process included removing and
replacing
all the existing ground floor ceilings and building above them with a
timber
carcass and new roof.

As expected, everything took a while to settle and establish itself and
there was some evidence of a small amount of movement, most noticeable in
the fit of a couple of sliding doors. But before long everything was
fine.

Then in the last few weeks, the new ceilings/loft area floors suddenly
became startlingly noisy, emitting what I can best describe as
intermittent
sharp (and loud) cracks. Since this mostly happens towards evening I'm
inclined to put it down to expansion and contraction, though there are
also
isolated incidents of it during the day.

Am I right? And if so, why is it happening now? And should I be
concerned?

Many thanks.
That does not sound good, do you live in a former mining area or is the
area prone to sink holes. Some creaking is not usually an issue but loud
cracks suggest further investigation is needed?

Richard

Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:

...is the bungalow built on a concrete raft over an old clay quarry?

It's certainly on a raft and underlying it is - I think - mainly stony clay
with some shingle. Not a quarry, though. As far as I know, this area used
to be open fields.

...and the porch fell off a couple of years ago.

That's very reassuring! If the noises continue I'll get someone in (maybe a
structural surveyor?) to advise.

Thanks.

On 13/04/2021 12:17, Bert Coules wrote:
Just over three years ago I had a major loft conversion done on my
semi-detached sixties bungalow: the process included removing and
replacing all the existing ground floor ceilings and building above them
with a timber carcass and new roof.

As expected, everything took a while to settle and establish itself and
there was some evidence of a small amount of movement, most noticeable
in the fit of a couple of sliding doors.Â* But before long everything was
fine.

Then in the last few weeks, the new ceilings/loft area floors suddenly
became startlingly noisy, emitting what I can best describe as
intermittent sharp (and loud) cracks.Â* Since this mostly happens towards
evening I'm inclined to put it down to expansion and contraction, though
there are also isolated incidents of it during the day.

Am I right?Â* And if so, why is it happening now?Â* And should I be
concerned?

If there are no obvious signs of moving through cracks or any other
signs I would put it down to thermal expansion.

Where I am the property seems to be alive, mainly in the evening when
everything is cooling down.

Just keep an eye out for any changes.

"Brian Gaff (Sofa)" wrote in message
...
Yes is the bungalow built on a concrete raft over an old clay quarry?
There is a house not far from me like that and the raft is beginning to
crack, one assumes due to subsidence under it, the road outside has also
developed cracks and a definite dip, and the porch fell off a couple of
years ago.
How long are such fixes supposed to last I wonder, these were put up in
the 1960s.

Don't talk me about mining subsidence. My school in Wakefield was right
under where the Coal Board wanted dig new tunnels to mine a new seam. This
is back in the days when we *had* mines - "You remember them? Dinosaurs,
dodos, miners." (Brassed Off).

The Coal Board knew that there might be subsidence, so they dug a six-foot
deep trench in the grounds all round the perimeter of the buildings, filled
it with ash (how many bonfires did that take?) and tarmacked it over. This
was supposed to make sure the whole school dropped/twisted as a single unit,
as if it were on a raft. Right load of old ******** that was! For the rest
of the time I was there, the front of the school was propped up by an
enormous wooden buttress, and there was scaffolding and planks that you had
to clamber over when going up and down the main staircase. There were cracks
(some 1/2" wide) in the plaster all over the place. Goodness knows how much
the school got in compensation because the so-called subsidence prevention
trench hadn't worked. My friend's house, just down the road from the school,
also developed nasty cracks and the family were put up in a hotel for
several months while the Coal Board did remedial work.

Still, it was probably cheaper than what the Coal Board paid British Rail to
divert the East Coast Main Line between Selby and York because of the
subsidence that the Selby Coalfield mine was expected to cause. I'm not sure
whether there *was* much subsidence to buildings in the area, but it was
wise to take precautions and BR benefited by the removal from the main-line
route of the notorious reverse curve north of Selby station and the even
more notorious swing bridge over the Ouse.

Fredxx wrote:
Just keep an eye out for any changes.

There might be something you can do in terms of fixing some cheap laser
pointers (firmly) to the structure, and marking out where the beams land.
Then go at different times of day and see if there's any difference.
(turning them off when not in use, obviously!)

(I'm not sure laser pointers are collimated enough, but worth a try before
going for anything fancier)

Theo

"Theo" wrote in message
...
Fredxx wrote:
Just keep an eye out for any changes.

There might be something you can do in terms of fixing some cheap laser
pointers (firmly) to the structure, and marking out where the beams land.
Then go at different times of day and see if there's any difference.
(turning them off when not in use, obviously!)

(I'm not sure laser pointers are collimated enough, but worth a try before
going for anything fancier)

And take care not to look into the beam accidentally...

On 13/04/2021 12:17, Bert Coules wrote:


Then in the last few weeks, the new ceilings/loft area floors suddenly
became startlingly noisy, emitting what I can best describe as
intermittent sharp (and loud) cracks.Â* Since this mostly happens towards
evening I'm inclined to put it down to expansion and contraction, though
there are also isolated incidents of it during the day.

Am I right?Â* And if so, why is it happening now?Â* And should I be
concerned?


CH pipes in loft or under the floor of extensions.

Central heating now cycling in shorter times now that the weather is
warmer (or more likely CH switching off as the sun shines through
windows providing more solar heating)

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 13/04/2021 22:01, Theo wrote:
Fredxx wrote:
Just keep an eye out for any changes.

There might be something you can do in terms of fixing some cheap laser
pointers (firmly) to the structure, and marking out where the beams land.
Then go at different times of day and see if there's any difference.
(turning them off when not in use, obviously!)

(I'm not sure laser pointers are collimated enough, but worth a try before
going for anything fancier)

Theo


If you have any small cracks, glueing microscope slides across them is a
good way to check for movement. You can pick up a pack of these on eBay
for notalot.

--
Cheers
Clive

"Clive Arthur" wrote in message
...
On 13/04/2021 22:01, Theo wrote:
Fredxx wrote:
Just keep an eye out for any changes.

There might be something you can do in terms of fixing some cheap laser
pointers (firmly) to the structure, and marking out where the beams land.
Then go at different times of day and see if there's any difference.
(turning them off when not in use, obviously!)

(I'm not sure laser pointers are collimated enough, but worth a try
before
going for anything fancier)

Theo


If you have any small cracks, glueing microscope slides across them is a
good way to check for movement. You can pick up a pack of these on eBay
for notalot.

I've always wondered how effective it is to glue a glass slide over a crack.
It depends rather critically on the bond between the glue and the glass
being stronger than the glass itself - otherwise as the wall moves, it
breaks the glue/glass bond (or the glue/wall bond) and the slide remains
intact.

On 14/04/2021 10:50, NY wrote:
"Clive Arthur" wrote in message
...
On 13/04/2021 22:01, Theo wrote:
Fredxx wrote:
Just keep an eye out for any changes.

There might be something you can do in terms of fixing some cheap laser
pointers (firmly) to the structure, and marking out where the beams
land.
Then go at different times of day and see if there's any difference.
(turning them off when not in use, obviously!)

(I'm not sure laser pointers are collimated enough, but worth a try
before
going for anything fancier)

Theo


If you have any small cracks, glueing microscope slides across them is
a good way to check for movement.Â* You can pick up a pack of these on
eBay for notalot.

I've always wondered how effective it is to glue a glass slide over a
crack. It depends rather critically on the bond between the glue and the
glass being stronger than the glass itself - otherwise as the wall
moves, it breaks the glue/glass bond (or the glue/wall bond) and the
slide remains intact.

Even that is as helpful


--
No Apple devices were knowingly used in the preparation of this post.

On 14/04/2021 09:58, Clive Arthur wrote:
On 13/04/2021 22:01, Theo wrote:
Fredxx wrote:
Just keep an eye out for any changes.

There might be something you can do in terms of fixing some cheap laser
pointers (firmly) to the structure, and marking out where the beams land.
Then go at different times of day and see if there's any difference.
(turning them off when not in use, obviously!)

(I'm not sure laser pointers are collimated enough, but worth a try
before
going for anything fancier)

Theo


If you have any small cracks, glueing microscope slides across them is a
good way to check for movement.Â* You can pick up a pack of these on eBay
for notalot.


With something so important I'd prefer a measure which avoids the false
alarm of a glass slide broken without developing movement - eg

https://www.sccssurvey.co.uk/crack-m...k-monitor.html



--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
I've always wondered how effective it is to glue a glass slide over a
crack. It depends rather critically on the bond between the glue and the
glass being stronger than the glass itself - otherwise as the wall moves,
it breaks the glue/glass bond (or the glue/wall bond) and the slide
remains intact.

Even that is as helpful

Assuming you can *see* that the glue joint has failed. Not as easy to spot
at a glance as a crack across the glass.

On 13/04/2021 11:17, Bert Coules wrote:

Just over three years ago I had a major loft conversion done on my
semi-detached sixties bungalow: the process included removing and replacing
all the existing ground floor ceilings and building above them with a timber
carcass and new roof.

.....in the last few weeks, the new ceilings/loft area floors suddenly
became startlingly noisy, emitting what I can best describe as intermittent
sharp (and loud) cracks. Since this mostly happens towards evening I'm
inclined to put it down to expansion and contraction, though there are also
isolated incidents of it during the day.

Am I right? And if so, why is it happening now? And should I be concerned?

We've had a very long dry spell, with occasional very dry winds. I
suspect that the timbers are drying out to a level they haven't seen
before and shrinking in the process, leading to some unusual noises. Try
drying your laundry indoors...

--
Spike

On 14 Apr 2021, NY wrote

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
I've always wondered how effective it is to glue a glass slide
over a crack. It depends rather critically on the bond between
the glue and the glass being stronger than the glass itself -
otherwise as the wall moves, it breaks the glue/glass bond (or
the glue/wall bond) and the slide remains intact.

Even that is as helpful

Assuming you can *see* that the glue joint has failed. Not as easy
to spot at a glance as a crack across the glass.

I know this is a diy group, but isn't thisi a case where using proper
crack-monitoring tell-tales would be better than making you own?

Cheers,
Harvey

On 14 Apr 2021, Robin wrote

On 14/04/2021 09:58, Clive Arthur wrote:
On 13/04/2021 22:01, Theo wrote:
Fredxx wrote:
Just keep an eye out for any changes.

There might be something you can do in terms of fixing some
cheap laser pointers (firmly) to the structure, and marking out
where the beams land. Then go at different times of day and see
if there's any difference. (turning them off when not in use,
obviously!)

(I'm not sure laser pointers are collimated enough, but worth a
try before
going for anything fancier)

Theo


If you have any small cracks, glueing microscope slides across
them is a good way to check for movement.Â* You can pick up a
pack of these on eBay for notalot.


With something so important I'd prefer a measure which avoids the
false alarm of a glass slide broken without developing movement -
eg

https://www.sccssurvey.co.uk/crack-m...-crack-monitor.
html

+1
(I've just posted a similar comment -- I should've read ahead....)

Cheers,
Harvey

On 13/04/2021 21:22, NY wrote:


Don't talk me about mining subsidence. My school in Wakefield was right
under where the Coal Board wanted dig new tunnels to mine a new seam.

Your school was underground ??. Amazing !.

"Andrew" wrote in message
...
On 13/04/2021 21:22, NY wrote:


Don't talk me about mining subsidence. My school in Wakefield was right
under where the Coal Board wanted dig new tunnels to mine a new seam.

Your school was underground ??. Amazing !.


Haha. The perils of writing a sentence one way round, then changing it round
and forgetting to change all the other references.

On 13/04/2021 21:22, NY wrote:
"Brian Gaff (Sofa)" wrote in message
...
Yes is the bungalow built on a concrete raft over an old clay quarry?
There is a house not far from me like that and the raft is beginning
to crack, one assumes due to subsidence under it, the road outside has
also developed cracks and a definite dip, and the porch fell off a
couple of years ago.
How long are such fixes supposed to last I wonder, these were put up
in the 1960s.

Don't talk me about mining subsidence. My school in Wakefield was right
under where the Coal Board wanted dig new tunnels to mine a new seam.
This is back in the days when we *had* mines - "You remember them?
Dinosaurs, dodos, miners." (Brassed Off).

The Coal Board knew that there might be subsidence, so they dug a
six-foot deep trench in the grounds all round the perimeter of the
buildings, filled it with ash (how many bonfires did that take?) and
tarmacked it over. This was supposed to make sure the whole school
dropped/twisted as a single unit, as if it were on a raft. Right load of
old ******** that was! For the rest of the time I was there, the front
of the school was propped up by an enormous wooden buttress, and there
was scaffolding and planks that you had to clamber over when going up
and down the main staircase. There were cracks (some 1/2" wide) in the
plaster all over the place. Goodness knows how much the school got in
compensation because the so-called subsidence prevention trench hadn't
worked. My friend's house, just down the road from the school, also
developed nasty cracks and the family were put up in a hotel for several
months while the Coal Board did remedial work.

Still, it was probably cheaper than what the Coal Board paid British
Rail to divert the East Coast Main Line between Selby and York because
of the subsidence that the Selby Coalfield mine was expected to cause.
I'm not sure whether there *was* much subsidence to buildings in the
area, but it was wise to take precautions and BR benefited by the
removal from the main-line route of the notorious reverse curve north of
Selby station and the even more notorious swing bridge over the Ouse.

******s.

BTW did I ever mention that my Dad was in charge of British Coals
(Yorkshire area) subsidence department?


--
Adam

Belated thanks for all the new replies.

The current situation is that the disturbing noises have almost entirely
stopped: I still hear the very occasional single noise, more a creak than a
crack and nothing like as loud as previously.

I'm inclined to agree with everyone who suggested a greater than usual
degree of shrinkage in the timbers, possibly specifically the floor/ceiling
construction. What very minor cracks are evident in the walls have been
there since shortly after the job was finished and have never increased (and
one day I really must fill them) so after a minor initial semi-panic I'm
inclined to think that nothing serious has happened or is still happening.
One change that is noticeable is that the floor of the new loft room is
definitely noisier and has very slightly more give than previously, but not
enough (I tell myself) to be alarming.

Tomorrow, when the entire structure collapses, I might have to eat my
words...

On 15/04/2021 19:48, Bert Coules wrote:
Belated thanks for all the new replies.

The current situation is that the disturbing noises have almost entirely
stopped: I still hear the very occasional single noise, more a creak
than a crack and nothing like as loud as previously.

I'm inclined to agree with everyone who suggested a greater than usual
degree of shrinkage in the timbers, possibly specifically the
floor/ceiling construction.Â* What very minor cracks are evident in the
walls have been there since shortly after the job was finished and have
never increased (and one day I really must fill them) so after a minor
initial semi-panic I'm inclined to think that nothing serious has
happened or is still happening. One change that is noticeable is that
the floor of the new loft room is definitely noisier and has very
slightly more give than previously, but not enough (I tell myself) to be
alarming.

Tomorrow, when the entire structure collapses, I might have to eat my
words...

We had wet winter, then a very cold spell (with heating on ++) and now
a prolonged dry spell. I suspect timbers are just drying out.

Andrew wrote:

We had wet winter, then a very cold spell (with heating on ++) and now
a prolonged dry spell. I suspect timbers are just drying out.

The evidence so far suggests that your suspicion is quite correct. Thanks
for your thoughts.

On 16/04/2021 15:42, Bert Coules wrote:
Andrew wrote:

We had wet winter, then a very cold spell (with heating on ++) and now
a prolonged dry spell. I suspect timbers are just drying out.

The evidence so far suggests that your suspicion is quite correct.
Thanks for your thoughts.


the 3-drawer chest of drawers in my bedroom is made of composite
wood panels with a nice veneered finish. At various times of the
year as the humidity and temperature changes it emits a loud
'boing' as some part of it expands /contracts and slides across
another part of the structure.

Andrew,

Thanks for that. Reassuring.