https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-49797830

I recall that where I worked, we were told by management to "never walk
past a problem". This stuck.
I recall a lift at a local store that has a paper message saying that the
emergency phone was not working and giving a mobile phone number for people
to report a proble. It was difficult to get through to the manager that
this was unacceptable.
I guess many of us see potentially unsafe things - it is often hard to get
something done about it though.

On Mon, 15 Feb 2021 09:49:25 GMT, JohnP wrote:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-49797830

I recall that where I worked, we were told by management to "never walk
past a problem". This stuck.
I recall a lift at a local store that has a paper message saying that the
emergency phone was not working and giving a mobile phone number for people
to report a proble. It was difficult to get through to the manager that
this was unacceptable.

It needs to be in writing and with a confirmation the same, that way
they realise they are on the spot where responsibility is concerned.

I was doing a manual backup of our servers at work one night and the
Accountant was holding up the process with some key files open. I
asked him if he could just save his work and logout for 5 mins but he
protested. I typed up a note, absolving myself of any negative outcome
of not being able to complete a backup and handed it to him to sign.

When he asked what it was, I explained that I wasn't going to take
responsibility to a potentially dangerous situation for *not* backing
up *company* information on behalf of the *company*and so doing so was
obstructing me from doing my duty. He huffed a bit, saved his work,
logged out and went a got a coffee. ;-)

I guess many of us see potentially unsafe things - it is often hard to get
something done about it though.

See above.

I note that all the posts that could / do carry any high voltages
(even a mains light) by the railway bridge we cross regularly have
very big and very large earth ties bolted to them (and they all seem
to be singles, no 'daisy chaining').

When doing some electrical work here recently I needed to work on a
junction box live to trace what was what. Because we had the dog with
us (who likes to be with me whatever I'm doing) I made a point of
popping the cover back on whenever I wasn't actually measuring stuff.

Cheers, T i m

In article , JohnP
wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-49797830

I recall that where I worked, we were told by management to "never walk
past a problem". This stuck. I recall a lift at a local store that has a
paper message saying that the emergency phone was not working and giving
a mobile phone number for people to report a proble. It was difficult to
get through to the manager that this was unacceptable.

Particularly in a lift which might be a Faraday Cage

I guess many of us see potentially unsafe things - it is often hard to
get something done about it though.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

charles wrote in
:

In article , JohnP
wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-49797830

I recall that where I worked, we were told by management to "never walk
past a problem". This stuck. I recall a lift at a local store that has a
paper message saying that the emergency phone was not working and giving
a mobile phone number for people to report a proble. It was difficult to
get through to the manager that this was unacceptable.

Particularly in a lift which might be a Faraday Cage

I guess many of us see potentially unsafe things - it is often hard to
get something done about it though.


One of my points!

On 15/02/2021 14:11, Owain Lastname wrote:
On Monday, 15 February 2021 at 09:49:30 UTC, JohnP wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-49797830
I recall that where I worked, we were told by management to "never walk
past a problem". This stuck.
I guess many of us see potentially unsafe things - it is often hard to get
something done about it though.

Which reminds me that the broken electric conduit on a bus shelter I reported in April 2020 has not been fixed.

If someone is fried, you can say, "toldyouso!"

--
Max Demian

On 15/02/2021 14:31, Max Demian wrote:
On 15/02/2021 14:11, Owain Lastname wrote:
On Monday, 15 February 2021 at 09:49:30 UTC, JohnP wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-49797830
I recall that where I worked, we were told by management to "never walk
past a problem". This stuck.
I guess many of us see potentially unsafe things - it is often hard
to get
something done about it though.

Which reminds me that the broken electric conduit on a bus shelter I
reported in April 2020 has not been fixed.

If someone is fried, you can say, "toldyouso!"

A couple I can remember a

1) The local swimming baths. While the changing rooms were being
refurbished, temporary ones were in use, at the end of a plastic tunnel,
outside the building. They were obviously designed for sports use -
benches with hooks above, a washbasin, a toilet and two showers. However
they were not designed for large numbers of already wet people using
them. I had to point out to the staff that a large pool of water kept
forming, right where people would stand (barefooted) and where
inquisitive children could open the outer cover of the consumer unit,
without any tools. I had to explain this twice, on two separate
occasions and then get the manager, to get anything done.

2) The previous office had lifting barriers to the car park, but also a
set of substantial, swinging barriers that could be padlocked across the
entrance at night. One of the posts at the open limits had sunk
slightly, so when the barriers were open, the padlock hole did not line
up with the one on the post and it was held open with a very frayed
elastic luggage rope that could easily have given way on a windy day. It
has been known for people to be killed by this type of barrier, when
they have blown across an entrance and the end has speared through the
windscreen of a vehicle. I raised the problem locally and on the overall
company system. Raised it again a week later. Someone phoned me a
fortnight later and finally organised a management visit and then had it
chained open three weeks later, until the post could be removed and
refitted correctly.

In both cases, the people in charge should have seen the problem in the
first place, but having not done so, when I reported it, they should
have acted far more quickly. The former problem should have been sorted
by the next day and the latter (temporarily) on the same day.

On 15/02/2021 09:49, JohnP wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-49797830

Not exactly breaking news.

I recall that where I worked, we were told by management to "never walk
past a problem". This stuck.
I recall a lift at a local store that has a paper message saying that the
emergency phone was not working and giving a mobile phone number for people
to report a proble. It was difficult to get through to the manager that
this was unacceptable.
I guess many of us see potentially unsafe things - it is often hard to get
something done about it though.


OTOH, he did have to work to get electrocuted - climbing a fence because
the gate to the area with the dodgy light was locked.

--
Colin Bignell

y.

In both cases, the people in charge should have seen the problem in
the first place, but having not done so, when I reported it, they
should have acted far more quickly. The former problem should have
been sorted by the next day and the latter (temporarily) on the same
day.

with so many services contacted out, there is rarely anyone to do simple
fixes.

On 15/02/2021 18:27, JohnP wrote:
y.

In both cases, the people in charge should have seen the problem in
the first place, but having not done so, when I reported it, they
should have acted far more quickly. The former problem should have
been sorted by the next day and the latter (temporarily) on the same
day.

with so many services contacted out, there is rarely anyone to do simple
fixes.

With the barriers, all it needed was for someone to buy a lock and chain
or a bike lock and use that as a temporary measure. That could have been
done, on expenses, by an onsite manager. Indeed, the maintenance company
could have done it as it is one of two similar building, next-door to a
much larger building, that they have responsibility for and a permanent
on-site presence.

For the swimming baths, at the very least, they could have taped the
consumer unit closed, there and then.

Steve Walker wrote in news:s0efe2$se9$1@dont-
email.me:

On 15/02/2021 18:27, JohnP wrote:
y.

In both cases, the people in charge should have seen the problem in
the first place, but having not done so, when I reported it, they
should have acted far more quickly. The former problem should have
been sorted by the next day and the latter (temporarily) on the same
day.

with so many services contacted out, there is rarely anyone to do simple
fixes.

With the barriers, all it needed was for someone to buy a lock and chain
or a bike lock and use that as a temporary measure. That could have been
done, on expenses, by an onsite manager. Indeed, the maintenance company
could have done it as it is one of two similar building, next-door to a
much larger building, that they have responsibility for and a permanent
on-site presence.

For the swimming baths, at the very least, they could have taped the
consumer unit closed, there and then.


Needs a "will" to do it.

On Mon, 15 Feb 2021 06:11:09 -0800 (PST), Owain Lastname
wrote:

On Monday, 15 February 2021 at 09:49:30 UTC, JohnP wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-49797830
I recall that where I worked, we were told by management to "never walk
past a problem". This stuck.
I guess many of us see potentially unsafe things - it is often hard to get
something done about it though.

Which reminds me that the broken electric conduit on a bus shelter I reported in April 2020 has not been fixed.

Not even (directly) dangerous but I have reported 3 faulty
streetlights this year and they were all fixed within a week (one more
is waiting for the power company to fix the feed to it) and they have
recently replaced a broken street sign I mentioned a while back. ;-)

Are you asking nicely. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

ve
recently replaced a broken street sign I mentioned a while back. ;-)

Are you asking nicely. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

I agree with your point - ask nicely - but importantly ask the right
department. Don;t moan to the girl on the switchboard or to the councillor.

nightjar wrote in
:

On 15/02/2021 09:49, JohnP wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-49797830

Not exactly breaking news.

I recall that where I worked, we were told by management to "never
walk past a problem". This stuck.
I recall a lift at a local store that has a paper message saying that
the emergency phone was not working and giving a mobile phone number
for people to report a proble. It was difficult to get through to the
manager that this was unacceptable.
I guess many of us see potentially unsafe things - it is often hard
to get something done about it though.


OTOH, he did have to work to get electrocuted - climbing a fence
because the gate to the area with the dodgy light was locked.


A judge would have to decide if it was what a reasonable person would do.

Is that not the same problem as the building cladding? The cladding on its
own is safe but the breaching of the sealed cell construction by fitting
upvc windows and gas into every flat through holes in the walls was never
considered when cladding was decided upon.
Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"JohnP" wrote in message
. ..
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-49797830

I recall that where I worked, we were told by management to "never walk
past a problem". This stuck.
I recall a lift at a local store that has a paper message saying that the
emergency phone was not working and giving a mobile phone number for
people
to report a proble. It was difficult to get through to the manager that
this was unacceptable.
I guess many of us see potentially unsafe things - it is often hard to get
something done about it though.

JohnP wrote:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-49797830

I recall that where I worked, we were told by management to "never walk
past a problem". This stuck.

I will confess to finding myself more aware of safety matters
than most, mainly because of various work-related stuff over the
years.

I remember being at a social event which happened to be attended
by the guy I knew as our company safety officer. Guess who
dragged his chair right in front of the fire exit ;-)

At an event, I usually at least make sure that I know where the
exits are, and the routes to them. Carrying out such a visual
check, over the last 30 years I have found (and taken action on):

Emergency exit chained and padlocked: Bury
Marquee with no fire exits, no exit signs, no emergency lighting:
Lincoln.
Previously failed electrical circuit leading to flat batteries in
emergency lights and exit signs: London
Inadequate exit signs and locked door on exit route: Whitby.

Even when the organisers have done their best, I have lost count
of the chairs, piles of bags, push chairs and so forth which have
been placed across the exits. Self-preservation doesn't seem to
be a strong instinct.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK
@ChrisJDixon1

Plant amazing Acers.

On 15/02/2021 22:44, JohnP wrote:
nightjar wrote in
:

On 15/02/2021 09:49, JohnP wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-49797830

Not exactly breaking news.

I recall that where I worked, we were told by management to "never
walk past a problem". This stuck.
I recall a lift at a local store that has a paper message saying that
the emergency phone was not working and giving a mobile phone number
for people to report a proble. It was difficult to get through to the
manager that this was unacceptable.
I guess many of us see potentially unsafe things - it is often hard
to get something done about it though.


OTOH, he did have to work to get electrocuted - climbing a fence
because the gate to the area with the dodgy light was locked.


A judge would have to decide if it was what a reasonable person would do.


The pictures show a fence that looks to be about 2.5m high. Short of
putting razor wire on top, I don't see how it could have been made any
more difficult to get to the light.

--
Colin Bignell

On 15/02/2021 10:36, charles wrote:

Particularly in a lift which might be a Faraday Cage


I have been surprised several times in the last few years to see people making or receiving mobile calls while in a lift. I had assumed that the sheet metal on all 6 sides would form a fairly effective barrier to signals, but apparently not. Does anyone understand why?

Back to the original post: one danger here might be that you have a phone that works while in a lift that fails, but the number you are supposed to call is taped the the button on the landing outside it not inside the car.


--
Clive Page

On Tuesday, 16 February 2021 at 14:33:01 UTC, Clive Page wrote:

I have been surprised several times in the last few years to see people making or receiving mobile calls while in a lift. I had assumed that the sheet metal on all 6 sides would form a fairly effective barrier to signals, but apparently not. Does anyone understand why?

The gaps between the metal panels act as slot antennas and re-radiate the signal very effectively.
To make a Faraday cage at mobile phone frequencies all the panels would need to be bonded
together every few cm.

John

On 15/02/2021 10:36, charles wrote:
In article , JohnP
wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-49797830

I recall that where I worked, we were told by management to "never walk
past a problem". This stuck. I recall a lift at a local store that has a
paper message saying that the emergency phone was not working and giving
a mobile phone number for people to report a proble. It was difficult to
get through to the manager that this was unacceptable.

Particularly in a lift which might be a Faraday Cage

Yes, although a lot of lifts have fibreboard ceilings which you can push
up to access the lift shaft if you're running cables down it.

Bill

On 16/02/2021 15:13, John Walliker wrote:
On Tuesday, 16 February 2021 at 14:33:01 UTC, Clive Page wrote:

I have been surprised several times in the last few years to see people making or receiving mobile calls while in a lift. I had assumed that the sheet metal on all 6 sides would form a fairly effective barrier to signals, but apparently not. Does anyone understand why?

The gaps between the metal panels act as slot antennas and re-radiate the signal very effectively.
To make a Faraday cage at mobile phone frequencies all the panels would need to be bonded
together every few cm.

John

The rubber safety strips on the doors leave a big gap anyway.

Bill

On 16/02/2021 15:13, John Walliker wrote:
On Tuesday, 16 February 2021 at 14:33:01 UTC, Clive Page wrote:

I have been surprised several times in the last few years to see people making or receiving mobile calls while in a lift. I had assumed that the sheet metal on all 6 sides would form a fairly effective barrier to signals, but apparently not. Does anyone understand why?

The gaps between the metal panels act as slot antennas and re-radiate the signal very effectively.
To make a Faraday cage at mobile phone frequencies all the panels would need to be bonded
together every few cm.

FM radio works OK in lifts. Maybe lifts are made of cardboard like
caravans. There's no need for much metal apart from the floor and a
framework to hold it together.

--
Max Demian

On 16/02/2021 12:22, nightjar wrote:


The pictures show a fence that looks to be about 2.5m high. Short of
putting razor wire on top, I don't see how it could have been made any
more difficult to get to the light.


They could have electrified the fence...

Bill

On Mon, 15 Feb 2021 21:57:36 GMT, JohnP wrote:

ve
recently replaced a broken street sign I mentioned a while back. ;-)

Are you asking nicely. ;-)


I agree with your point - ask nicely - but importantly ask the right
department. Don;t moan to the girl on the switchboard or to the councillor.

Quite, and with sufficient / accurate information for them to do what
they need without having to plough through a lot of superfluous info.

I forgot to mention I've also had good service for the two 'Boris
bikes' I found abandoned locally and several fly tips.

Cheers, T i m

"Clive Page" wrote in message
...
On 15/02/2021 10:36, charles wrote:

Particularly in a lift which might be a Faraday Cage


I have been surprised several times in the last few years to see people
making or receiving mobile calls while in a lift. I had assumed that the
sheet metal on all 6 sides would form a fairly effective barrier to
signals, but apparently not. Does anyone understand why?

For the same reason they work in cars, they arent that
great a faraday cage.

Back to the original post: one danger here might be that you have a phone
that works while in a lift that fails, but the number you are supposed to
call is taped the the button on the landing outside it not inside the car.


--
Clive Page

On Wed, 17 Feb 2021 10:19:21 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

Oh, ****! And this innocent little thread was Rodent-free, so far!

--
"Who or What is Rod Speed?

Rod Speed is an entirely modern phenomenon. Essentially, Rod Speed
is an insecure and worthless individual who has discovered he can
enhance his own self-esteem in his own eyes by playing "the big, hard
man" on the InterNet."
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

On 16/02/2021 23:19, Rod Speed wrote:

For the same reason they work in cars, they arent that
great a faraday cage.

Yes, but cars have dirty great windows. Most lifts don't.


--
Clive Page

On 17/02/2021 09:57, Clive Page wrote:
On 16/02/2021 23:19, Rod Speed wrote:

For the same reason they work in cars, they arent that
great a faraday cage.

Yes, but cars have dirty great windows.Â* Most lifts don't.


Some lifts are effective Faraday cages, others are not


--
Any fool can believe in principles - and most of them do!

Clive Page wrote
Rod Speed wrote

For the same reason they work in cars, they arent that great a faraday
cage.

Yes, but cars have dirty great windows. Most lifts don't.

But they mostly dont have metal roofs,
which isnt different non metal area wise.