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Varilight V-Pro dimmer driving LED downlighters - not turning off
Morning all,
I've a new extension which has 2 banks of downlighters (one bank of 6 and one of 8) in the ceiling. Each bank is controlled by a Varilight V-Pro mullti-point touch and IR dimmer master and slave. When I turn the lights off, they are staying on but going to a really low, barely perceptible level. I know they aren't turning off properly because if I knock the breaker off they go out properly. I have faith in the electrician, and everything is brand new. The LEDs downlighters are dimmable jobs from screwfix, about £9 a pop. I have some of these same downlighters on normal switches and they work fine. I've tried all three dimming modes on the Varilight switches. Because it is happening on both banks, I'm inclined to suspect the dimmers. Anyone out there got any experience of this issue with this product? Kind regards Jon |
Varilight V-Pro dimmer driving LED downlighters - not turning off
On Thursday, February 4, 2021 at 9:28:45 AM UTC, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
Are these those touch plate ones. No, not true touch control but microswitches. So the switching is electronic, rather than mechanical. Jon |
Varilight V-Pro dimmer driving LED downlighters - not turning off
In article ,
Jon Parker wrote: I've a new extension which has 2 banks of downlighters (one bank of 6 and one of 8) in the ceiling. Each bank is controlled by a Varilight V-Pro mullti-point touch and IR dimmer master and slave. When I turn the lights off, they are staying on but going to a really low, barely perceptible level. Does the total load conform to the minimum stated on the dimmer? -- *WHOSE CRUEL IDEA WAS IT FOR THE WORD 'LISP' TO HAVE 'S' IN IT? Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
Varilight V-Pro dimmer driving LED downlighters - not turning off
On 04/02/2021 08:51, Jon Parker wrote:
Morning all, I've a new extension which has 2 banks of downlighters (one bank of 6 and one of 8) in the ceiling. Each bank is controlled by a Varilight V-Pro mullti-point touch and IR dimmer master and slave. When I turn the lights off, they are staying on but going to a really low, barely perceptible level. I know they aren't turning off properly because if I knock the breaker off they go out properly. I have faith in the electrician, and everything is brand new. The LEDs downlighters are dimmable jobs from screwfix, about £9 a pop. I have some of these same downlighters on normal switches and they work fine. I've tried all three dimming modes on the Varilight switches. Because it is happening on both banks, I'm inclined to suspect the dimmers. Anyone out there got any experience of this issue with this product? Are these the push on / push off style or the touch dimmers? If its a touch dimmer, then it might be that the standby current that the switch needs to draw for its own operation (which it has to do through the load as there is no neutral available at the switch position) is enough to cause the glow. If its a push type with a mechanical switch, then its likely down to capacitive coupling in the wires (more common on longer runs and two way switched setups). One way to fix both issues is something like: https://www.varilight.co.uk/configur....php?code=YAGF -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
Varilight V-Pro dimmer driving LED downlighters - not turning off
On 04/02/2021 11:26, John Rumm wrote:
On 04/02/2021 08:51, Jon Parker wrote: Morning all, I've a new extension which has 2 banks of downlighters (one bank of 6 and one of 8) in the ceiling. Each bank is controlled by a Varilight V-Pro mullti-point touch and IR dimmer master and slave. When I turn the lights off, they are staying on but going to a really low, barely perceptible level. I know they aren't turning off properly because if I knock the breaker off they go out properly. I have faith in the electrician, and everything is brand new. The LEDs downlighters are dimmable jobs from screwfix, about £9 a pop. I have some of these same downlighters on normal switches and they work fine. I've tried all three dimming modes on the Varilight switches. Because it is happening on both banks, I'm inclined to suspect the dimmers. Anyone out there got any experience of this issue with this product? Are these the push on / push off style or the touch dimmers? If its a touch dimmer, then it might be that the standby current that the switch needs to draw for its own operation (which it has to do through the load as there is no neutral available at the switch position) is enough to cause the glow. If its a push type with a mechanical switch, then its likely down to capacitive coupling in the wires (more common on longer runs and two way switched setups). One way to fix both issues is something like: https://www.varilight.co.uk/configur....php?code=YAGF That is probably a dummy load comprising of a resistor and/or capacitor...... :-) |
Varilight V-Pro dimmer driving LED downlighters - not turning off
On 04/02/2021 08:51, Jon Parker wrote:
Morning all, I've a new extension which has 2 banks of downlighters (one bank of 6 and one of 8) in the ceiling. Each bank is controlled by a Varilight V-Pro mullti-point touch and IR dimmer master and slave. When I turn the lights off, they are staying on but going to a really low, barely perceptible level. How faint? You can easily see the die illuminated in modern high efficiency LEDs with just a couple of uA flowing in them. Dark adapted you can see by 10uA leakage current on an LED torch. Makes it much easier to find one in a power cut after dark. Because it is happening on both banks, I'm inclined to suspect the dimmers. Could also be capacitive coupling of long wiring runs especially if it is a two switch system with them widely separated. -- Regards, Martin Brown |
Varilight V-Pro dimmer driving LED downlighters - not turning off
In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote: In article , Jon Parker wrote: I've a new extension which has 2 banks of downlighters (one bank of 6 and one of 8) in the ceiling. Each bank is controlled by a Varilight V-Pro mullti-point touch and IR dimmer master and slave. When I turn the lights off, they are staying on but going to a really low, barely perceptible level. Does the total load conform to the minimum stated on the dimmer? Just looked, and in the notes says not suitable for LEDs that need triac control. But not sure what they might be. I've got a few of the V-Pro modules and they are fine even with a very low load. But have a normal push on/off switch. -- *Fax is stronger than fiction * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
Varilight V-Pro dimmer driving LED downlighters - not turning off
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Just looked, and in the notes says not suitable for LEDs that need triac control. No mention of that in the instruction sheetm but it does mention the glowfix that john reccomended But not sure what they might be. I've got a few of the V-Pro modules and they are fine even with a very low load. But have a normal push on/off switch. Yes, same here, not the touch version. |
Varilight V-Pro dimmer driving LED downlighters - not turning off
Well its still mechanical then, just momentary rather than toggle,if you
like the toggle is electronic. A circuit with hysteresis, like a bistable multivibrator circuit and one of the loads is operating the switch. Brian -- This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from... The Sofa of Brian Gaff... Blind user, so no pictures please Note this Signature is meaningless.! "Jon Parker" wrote in message ... On Thursday, February 4, 2021 at 9:28:45 AM UTC, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote: Are these those touch plate ones. No, not true touch control but microswitches. So the switching is electronic, rather than mechanical. Jon |
Varilight V-Pro dimmer driving LED downlighters - not turning off
Maybe the way ahead is a very low current filament lamp somewhere just
enough to make it think its got a load. Brian -- This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from... The Sofa of Brian Gaff... Blind user, so no pictures please Note this Signature is meaningless.! "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , Dave Plowman (News) wrote: In article , Jon Parker wrote: I've a new extension which has 2 banks of downlighters (one bank of 6 and one of 8) in the ceiling. Each bank is controlled by a Varilight V-Pro mullti-point touch and IR dimmer master and slave. When I turn the lights off, they are staying on but going to a really low, barely perceptible level. Does the total load conform to the minimum stated on the dimmer? Just looked, and in the notes says not suitable for LEDs that need triac control. But not sure what they might be. I've got a few of the V-Pro modules and they are fine even with a very low load. But have a normal push on/off switch. -- *Fax is stronger than fiction * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
Varilight V-Pro dimmer driving LED downlighters - not turning off
On 04/02/2021 20:21, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
Well its still mechanical then, just momentary rather than toggle,if you like the toggle is electronic. A circuit with hysteresis, like a bistable multivibrator circuit and one of the loads is operating the switch. Which means the load is *not* mechanically switched. So the switch depends on bleeding some current through the load for its electronics to be powered. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
Varilight V-Pro dimmer driving LED downlighters - not turning off
On Thu, 04 Feb 2021 22:18:45 +0000, John Rumm wrote:
On 04/02/2021 20:21, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote: Well its still mechanical then, just momentary rather than toggle,if you like the toggle is electronic. A circuit with hysteresis, like a bistable multivibrator circuit and one of the loads is operating the switch. Which means the load is *not* mechanically switched. So the switch depends on bleeding some current through the load for its electronics to be powered. The start sequence is initiated with a mechanical switch. |
Varilight V-Pro dimmer driving LED downlighters - not turning off
On Thursday, 4 February 2021 at 08:51:29 UTC, Jon Parker wrote:
Anyone out there got any experience of this issue with this product? I don't, but I would recommend getting in touch with Varilight's customer support: https://www.varilight.co.uk/help/ind...add&category=2 They've got a decent ticketing system and the service behind it seems pretty good - they've given me detailed technical advice in the past and are seemingly quite happy to send out replacement modules if a fault is suspected. Mathew |
Varilight V-Pro dimmer driving LED downlighters - not turning off
On 06/02/2021 09:19, jon wrote:
On Thu, 04 Feb 2021 22:18:45 +0000, John Rumm wrote: On 04/02/2021 20:21, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote: Well its still mechanical then, just momentary rather than toggle,if you like the toggle is electronic. A circuit with hysteresis, like a bistable multivibrator circuit and one of the loads is operating the switch. Which means the load is *not* mechanically switched. So the switch depends on bleeding some current through the load for its electronics to be powered. The start sequence is initiated with a mechanical switch. Yup, but that needs powered electronics to respond to it and switch the load. So the switch is essentially an electronic one that needs to be continuously powered to work. This is different from the Varilight push on / off dimmers. That are completely "off" when the push switch is in the off position, and only run their electronics when they are switched on with the mechanical switch. The former type (along with touch dimmers) can cause sensitive lamps to glow even when turned off as a result of the quiescent load drawn through the lamp by the electronics. The latter type won't do that, although you can still get a glow as a result of capacitive coupling of the switched live wire to the lamps. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
Varilight V-Pro dimmer driving LED downlighters - not turning off
On Thursday, February 4, 2021 at 11:20:48 AM UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Does the total load conform to the minimum stated on the dimmer? Yes, I am well under that. Blurb says max 10 bulbs / 100 watts per switch. I have a bank of 8 and a bank of 6 each on separate switches. The LEDs are just 5w each, so one switch is coping with 40w, the other 30w in total. Jon |
Varilight V-Pro dimmer driving LED downlighters - not turning off
On Thursday, February 4, 2021 at 11:26:14 AM UTC, John Rumm wrote:
One way to fix both issues is something like: https://www.varilight.co.uk/configur....php?code=YAGF That looks like it me just the job. Hopefully the supplier will respond in kind to my request for some tech support and suggest the same product. Presumably in my set-up (I have 2 dimmed lighting circuits, one with 6 and one with 8 LEDs) I would need one regulator for each switched bank? Jon |
Varilight V-Pro dimmer driving LED downlighters - not turning off
On Saturday, February 6, 2021 at 10:49:02 AM UTC, Mathew Newton wrote:
https://www.varilight.co.uk/help/ind...add&category=2 They've got a decent ticketing system and the service behind it seems pretty good - they've given me detailed technical advice in the past and are seemingly quite happy to send out replacement modules if a fault is suspected. Mathew Thanks Matthew, noted. I have contacted the supplier website of the switches in the first instance. Jon |
Varilight V-Pro dimmer driving LED downlighters - not turning off
Jon Parker wrote:
Dave Plowman wrote: Does the total load conform to the minimum stated on the dimmer? Yes, I am well under that. But you don't want to be *under* the minimum ... |
Varilight V-Pro dimmer driving LED downlighters - not turning off
On 09/02/2021 11:53, Andy Burns wrote:
Jon Parker wrote: Dave Plowman wrote: Does the total load conform to the minimum stated on the dimmer? Yes, I am well under that. But you don't want to be *under* the minimum ... Indeed - many dimmers have problems with too little load. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
Varilight V-Pro dimmer driving LED downlighters - not turning off
On 09/02/2021 11:50, Jon Parker wrote:
On Thursday, February 4, 2021 at 11:26:14 AM UTC, John Rumm wrote: One way to fix both issues is something like: https://www.varilight.co.uk/configur....php?code=YAGF That looks like it me just the job. Hopefully the supplier will respond in kind to my request for some tech support and suggest the same product. Presumably in my set-up (I have 2 dimmed lighting circuits, one with 6 and one with 8 LEDs) I would need one regulator for each switched bank? Yup, it want to be installed close to the lamp fitting ideally. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
Varilight V-Pro dimmer driving LED downlighters - not turning off
Does the total load conform to the minimum stated on the dimmer?
Yes, I am well under that. But you don't want to be *under* the minimum ... Granted! 'twas an error, I meant maximum. The issue has been solved by the addition of the load regulator, which as another poster said, is probably just a resistor/capacitor, but my lights are fixed so I don't care anymore! Jon |
Varilight V-Pro dimmer driving LED downlighters - not turning off
That looks like it me just the job. Hopefully the supplier will respond in kind to my request for some tech support and suggest the same product. Presumably in my set-up (I have 2 dimmed lighting circuits, one with 6 and one with 8 LEDs) I would need one regulator for each switched bank?
Just to report back, these gadgets have done the job so thank you to all contributors. Have a nice day. Jon |
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