I have a couple of early LED lamps, with fins and very heavy. Are
these as good as (or better than?) the present generation?

Scott wrote:
I have a couple of early LED lamps, with fins and very heavy. Are
these as good as (or better than?) the present generation?


I find plenty of heat-sinking reassuring in LEDs. Generally found in more
expensive/better designed ones.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

Well if they are generating heat then that is wasted power. However, they
are most likely electrically quiet, whereas the modern switch mode ones
pulse the leds hard and can be a swine if you want to listen to any am
radio!
Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Scott" wrote in message
...
I have a couple of early LED lamps, with fins and very heavy. Are
these as good as (or better than?) the present generation?

In article ,
Scott wrote:
I have a couple of early LED lamps, with fins and very heavy. Are
these as good as (or better than?) the present generation?

Unlikely to produce as much light. May be longer lived, though.

--
*I know a guy who's addicted to brake fluid. He says he can stop any time.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Friday, 6 November 2020 18:23:15 UTC, Scott wrote:
I have a couple of early LED lamps, with fins and very heavy. Are
these as good as (or better than?) the present generation?

As I understand, the lower the efficiency, the more heat dispersion will be required, so the heavier the lamp.

Quite likely not as good as current generation but might well not be worth changing them.

Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
Well if they are generating heat then that is wasted power. However, they
are most likely electrically quiet, whereas the modern switch mode ones
pulse the leds hard and can be a swine if you want to listen to any am
radio!
Brian


Looking at some numbers, I have an old bulb with fins
that uses 15W. And a new bulb that uses 8.5W. Both
produce the same amount of light.

I would use the wasteful 15W input 800LM LED bulb
in the laundry room. The laundry room light does
not remain on.

For the kitchen light, the 8.5W input 800LM bulb would
pay for itself in one to three years or so. It depends
on exact usage pattern. But compared to the 15W one,
the payback on buying that newer bulb is worth it.

The old bulbs cost 7x what the new bulb cost,
in terms of purchase price. But since I've already paid
for the old one, that doesn't enter into the math.

All bulbs need attention to details. The LED bulbs
should not be used inside a "globe". They would overheat.
The old bulb in my example, the 15W one, says on
the side of it "for operation upright, only". So
not only does it have fins, it also has instructions
on correct orientation. Inverting the bulb makes it
run hotter.

Paul

Paul wrote:

Looking at some numbers, I have an old bulb with fins
that uses 15W. And a new bulb that uses 8.5W. Both
produce the same amount of light.

I would use the wasteful 15W input 800LM LED bulb
in the laundry room. The laundry room light does
not remain on.

I have three Philips 806 lm 8W LEDs in the kitchen, they were saying
75mA at 230V, one of them "went" the other week, so I picked-up a couple
of replacements, still Philips 806 lm 8W, but now saying 70mA so I guess
Johnny B Good is going to be waiting a long time for his 240 lm/W LEDs
to hit the shelves ...

Andy Burns wrote:

Philips 806 lm 8W LEDs in the kitchen, they were saying 75mA at 230V

But that 75mA (and the newer 70mA) are clearly bollox, maybe someone
printed the current for 110V lamps on the 230V lamps?

On 07/11/2020 15:33, Andy Burns wrote:
Andy Burns wrote:

Philips 806 lm 8W LEDs in the kitchen, they were saying 75mA at 230V

But that 75mA (and the newer 70mA) are clearly bollox, maybe someone
printed the current for 110V lamps on the 230V lamps?

Clearly bollox? depends on what '8W' means,and how much of that current
is in phase with the voltage.

8W = 16VA is not unknown if a capacitor dropper is in play.

--
In todays liberal progressive conflict-free education system, everyone
gets full Marx.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 07/11/2020 15:33, Andy Burns wrote:
Andy Burns wrote:

Philips 806 lm 8W LEDs in the kitchen, they were saying 75mA at 230V

But that 75mA (and the newer 70mA) are clearly bollox, maybe someone
printed the current for 110V lamps on the 230V lamps?

Clearly bollox? depends on what '8W' means,and how much of that current
is in phase with the voltage.

8W = 16VA is not unknown if a capacitor dropper is in play.

I thought they had to meet a decent power factor these days?

On 07/11/2020 15:56, Andy Burns wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 07/11/2020 15:33, Andy Burns wrote:
Andy Burns wrote:

Philips 806 lm 8W LEDs in the kitchen, they were saying 75mA at 230V

But that 75mA (and the newer 70mA) are clearly bollox, maybe someone
printed the current for 110V lamps on the 230V lamps?

Clearly bollox? depends on what '8W' means,and how much of that
current is in phase with the voltage.

8W = 16VA is not unknown if a capacitor dropper is in play.

I thought they had to meet a decent power factor these days?

Well there is so much inductive load on the grid a little capacitance is
always handy :-)

I dunno what the Law says ... and anyway its worse than that because of
the proliferation of SMPS, most of which only draw power at voltage peaks.


--
Renewable energy: Expensive solutions that don't work to a problem that
doesn't exist instituted by self legalising protection rackets that
don't protect, masquerading as public servants who don't serve the public.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 07/11/2020 15:56, Andy Burns wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 07/11/2020 15:33, Andy Burns wrote:
Andy Burns wrote:

Philips 806 lm 8W LEDs in the kitchen, they were saying 75mA at 230V

But that 75mA (and the newer 70mA) are clearly bollox, maybe someone
printed the current for 110V lamps on the 230V lamps?

Clearly bollox? depends on what '8W' means,and how much of that
current is in phase with the voltage.

8W = 16VA is not unknown if a capacitor dropper is in play.

I thought they had to meet a decent power factor these days?

Well there is so much inductive load on the grid a little capacitance is
always handy :-)

I dunno what the Law says ... and anyway its worse than that because of
the proliferation of SMPS, most of which only draw power at voltage peaks.



Hot off the Kill-O-Watt

Old finned LED 60W dimmable 100W nondim 40W nondim

VA 19.4 11.1 21.1 8.4
W 16.5 8.8 12.5 5.0
PF 0.85 0.80 0.58 0.60

For some reason, the non-dimmable have worse PF.

The three on the right, are Philips purchased in
the last month.

Paul

Paul wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 07/11/2020 15:56, Andy Burns wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 07/11/2020 15:33, Andy Burns wrote:
Andy Burns wrote:

Philips 806 lm 8W LEDs in the kitchen, they were saying 75mA at 230V

But that 75mA (and the newer 70mA) are clearly bollox, maybe someone
printed the current for 110V lamps on the 230V lamps?

Clearly bollox? depends on what '8W' means,and how much of that
current is in phase with the voltage.

8W = 16VA is not unknown if a capacitor dropper is in play.

I thought they had to meet a decent power factor these days?

Well there is so much inductive load on the grid a little capacitance is
always handy :-)

I dunno what the Law says ... and anyway its worse than that because of
the proliferation of SMPS, most of which only draw power at voltage peaks.



Hot off the Kill-O-Watt

Old finned LED 60W dimmable 100W nondim 40W nondim

VA 19.4 11.1 21.1 8.4
W 16.5 8.8 12.5 5.0
PF 0.85 0.80 0.58 0.60

For some reason, the non-dimmable have worse PF.

The three on the right, are Philips purchased in
the last month.

Presumably that's 100w equivalent, etc. When are we going to get back
to simply giving the actual power consumption as the basic parameter,
or possibly the light output?

--
Chris Green
·

On Fri, 06 Nov 2020 18:23:09 +0000, Scott
wrote:

I have a couple of early LED lamps, with fins and very heavy. Are
these as good as (or better than?) the present generation?

I find leds acquired in the last couple of years to be to be
considerably more reliable (none have failed) and brighter at lower
wattage than their predecessors.

On Sat, 7 Nov 2020 20:37:35 +0000, Chris Green wrote:

Hot off the Kill-O-Watt

Old finned LED 60W dimmable 100W nondim 40W nondim

VA 19.4 11.1 21.1 8.4
W 16.5 8.8 12.5 5.0
PF 0.85 0.80 0.58 0.60

For some reason, the non-dimmable have worse PF.

The three on the right, are Philips purchased in
the last month.

Presumably that's 100w equivalent, etc. When are we going to get back
to simply giving the actual power consumption as the basic parameter,
or possibly the light output?

Perhaps when 25,000h life isn't claimed to be 25 years when it's 3 years.
On some packaging it's quite a search to find the wattage; also, why does
the blurb claim 'high power' when I'm looking for lowest power for the
required output?
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

PeterC wrote:
On Sat, 7 Nov 2020 20:37:35 +0000, Chris Green wrote:

Hot off the Kill-O-Watt

Old finned LED 60W dimmable 100W nondim 40W nondim

VA 19.4 11.1 21.1 8.4
W 16.5 8.8 12.5 5.0
PF 0.85 0.80 0.58 0.60

For some reason, the non-dimmable have worse PF.

The three on the right, are Philips purchased in
the last month.

Presumably that's 100w equivalent, etc. When are we going to get back
to simply giving the actual power consumption as the basic parameter,
or possibly the light output?

Perhaps when 25,000h life isn't claimed to be 25 years when it's 3 years.
On some packaging it's quite a search to find the wattage; also, why does
the blurb claim 'high power' when I'm looking for lowest power for the
required output?

The rating system, the "class" of bulb, is to make it
easier for shoppers to "replace by application". The
bulb in the refrigerator for example, we only need 25W
for that one, so none of the above would be suitable
in the fridge. Knowing that it uses 3W real power,
wouldn't be as useful info.

The Philips I just bought, work down to -20C. Which means
those particular ones might be OK in the fridge, as long
as nothing condenses in the base. Maybe that's a good
reason to have potting compound in the base.

And the color temperature and CRI, tell you what the
light will look like. The three on the right above are
2700K 90CRI, which means roughly "almost the same as
an incandescent". A warm-ish light, suitable for reading.
The 5000K 85CRI bulbs I bought, the floods, those
are dreadful, and I can't use those for anything.
And I don't really understand what goes on with those,
as the light is "white", but it's also "bleh" and
indescribable in any meaningful way. They don't
look bluish, as the 5000K would hint, there's no
sign of blue the way some bulbs at that color
temperature look. But the light is just awful
and you just want to turn it off. It's "poke in the eye"
awful. I'd rather light the room with a magnesium flare.

Paul

On 08/11/2020 09:12, Paul wrote:


And the color temperature and CRI, tell you what the
light will look like. The three on the right above are
2700K 90CRI, which means roughly "almost the same as
an incandescent". A warm-ish light, suitable for reading.

I find the exact opposite. Those horrible 2700k orange/yellow
monstrosities are far inferior to the cool white/daylight bulbs for
reading (and for any other lighting)


The 5000K 85CRI bulbs I bought, the floods, those
are dreadful, and I can't use those for anything.

Some of us can and find them much better than traditional bulb (colour
temperature) equivalents.


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 07/11/2020 23:11, Peter Johnson wrote:
On Fri, 06 Nov 2020 18:23:09 +0000, Scott
wrote:

I have a couple of early LED lamps, with fins and very heavy. Are
these as good as (or better than?) the present generation?

I find leds acquired in the last couple of years to be to be
considerably more reliable (none have failed) and brighter at lower
wattage than their predecessors.


In my experience with the early type it was often the electronics in the
base of the bulb that failed, probably because it got too hot in
traditional light fittings - especially in downlighters with a limited
free air flow and very little facility for heat sinking.

With more efficient LEDs and with the use of LED arrays dropping 70+V
rather than single LEDs the electronic components are less stressed and
hence more reliable.

As I'm going through my house re-decorating each room I'm replacing old
light fittings with LED panel type (fancy "designer" type rather than
utilitarian). These all have fairly large metal back plates to which a
LED strip and the driver are attached giving a more than adequate heatsink.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On Sun, 08 Nov 2020 04:12:06 -0500, Paul
wrote:

PeterC wrote:
On Sat, 7 Nov 2020 20:37:35 +0000, Chris Green wrote:

Hot off the Kill-O-Watt

Old finned LED 60W dimmable 100W nondim 40W nondim

VA 19.4 11.1 21.1 8.4
W 16.5 8.8 12.5 5.0
PF 0.85 0.80 0.58 0.60

For some reason, the non-dimmable have worse PF.

The three on the right, are Philips purchased in
the last month.

Presumably that's 100w equivalent, etc. When are we going to get back
to simply giving the actual power consumption as the basic parameter,
or possibly the light output?

Perhaps when 25,000h life isn't claimed to be 25 years when it's 3 years.
On some packaging it's quite a search to find the wattage; also, why does
the blurb claim 'high power' when I'm looking for lowest power for the
required output?

The rating system, the "class" of bulb, is to make it
easier for shoppers to "replace by application". The
bulb in the refrigerator for example, we only need 25W
for that one, so none of the above would be suitable
in the fridge. Knowing that it uses 3W real power,
wouldn't be as useful info.

The Philips I just bought, work down to -20C. Which means
those particular ones might be OK in the fridge, as long
as nothing condenses in the base. Maybe that's a good
reason to have potting compound in the base.

My fridge needs the light to be permanently on when running below a
certain ambient temperature to force the compressor to keep working.
There is a winter switch for this purpose. I assume an LED light
would not produce enough heat for this to work. Is this an unusual
arrangement.

On 08/11/2020 12:08, Scott wrote:
On Sun, 08 Nov 2020 04:12:06 -0500, Paul
wrote:

PeterC wrote:
On Sat, 7 Nov 2020 20:37:35 +0000, Chris Green wrote:

Hot off the Kill-O-Watt

Old finned LED 60W dimmable 100W nondim 40W nondim

VA 19.4 11.1 21.1 8.4
W 16.5 8.8 12.5 5.0
PF 0.85 0.80 0.58 0.60

For some reason, the non-dimmable have worse PF.

The three on the right, are Philips purchased in
the last month.

Presumably that's 100w equivalent, etc. When are we going to get back
to simply giving the actual power consumption as the basic parameter,
or possibly the light output?

Perhaps when 25,000h life isn't claimed to be 25 years when it's 3 years.
On some packaging it's quite a search to find the wattage; also, why does
the blurb claim 'high power' when I'm looking for lowest power for the
required output?

The rating system, the "class" of bulb, is to make it
easier for shoppers to "replace by application". The
bulb in the refrigerator for example, we only need 25W
for that one, so none of the above would be suitable
in the fridge. Knowing that it uses 3W real power,
wouldn't be as useful info.

The Philips I just bought, work down to -20C. Which means
those particular ones might be OK in the fridge, as long
as nothing condenses in the base. Maybe that's a good
reason to have potting compound in the base.

My fridge needs the light to be permanently on when running below a
certain ambient temperature to force the compressor to keep working.
There is a winter switch for this purpose. I assume an LED light
would not produce enough heat for this to work. Is this an unusual
arrangement.


My Liebherr fridge has this. It has an Invensys electro-mechanical
thermostat. Maybe modern fridges with a 'chip' and circuit board
do it more intelligently.

alan_m wrote:
On 08/11/2020 09:12, Paul wrote:


And the color temperature and CRI, tell you what the
light will look like. The three on the right above are
2700K 90CRI, which means roughly "almost the same as
an incandescent". A warm-ish light, suitable for reading.

I find the exact opposite. Those horrible 2700k orange/yellow
monstrosities are far inferior to the cool white/daylight bulbs for
reading (and for any other lighting)


The 5000K 85CRI bulbs I bought, the floods, those
are dreadful, and I can't use those for anything.

Some of us can and find them much better than traditional bulb (colour
temperature) equivalents.

Here's a spectral comparison.

https://i.postimg.cc/T3kW9Z3k/spectral.gif

All I can find wrong with the bulb I can't stand,
is the blue spike seems to be a bit higher. But
I don't really notice a blue coloration to it.

There are other bulbs, where at high color temperature
there's a distinctive blue tinge, which is the blue
LED inside the envelope leaking through.

The bad bulb has a Fresnel lens but that should
make no difference to the color.

Paul

On Sunday, 8 November 2020 09:26:16 UTC, alan_m wrote:
On 08/11/2020 09:12, Paul wrote:


And the color temperature and CRI, tell you what the
light will look like. The three on the right above are
2700K 90CRI, which means roughly "almost the same as
an incandescent". A warm-ish light, suitable for reading.

I find the exact opposite. Those horrible 2700k orange/yellow
monstrosities are far inferior to the cool white/daylight bulbs for
reading (and for any other lighting)


The 5000K 85CRI bulbs I bought, the floods, those
are dreadful, and I can't use those for anything.

Some of us can and find them much better than traditional bulb (colour
temperature) equivalents.

5000K is often a bit too high/blue.

4000K I find satisfactory for many purposes. It appears that the CRI has generally improved over the years - but very few actually state it!

Scott wrote:


My fridge needs the light to be permanently on when running below a
certain ambient temperature to force the compressor to keep working.
There is a winter switch for this purpose. I assume an LED light
would not produce enough heat for this to work. Is this an unusual
arrangement.

My machine has two or three (relatively low power)
heaters already.

Why couldn't they have just fitted a heater of the
appropriate value, to strike a balance ?

I would contact the manufacturer, present the question
to them, and see what kind of excuses they can make.

If you want to fix it, stick the fridge light bulb
back in it. As I understand it, some flavors of bulbs
will continue to be manufactured. but if a light
bulb only has 1000 hour life, using the fridge light
as a heater, is just asking for an in-service failure
and a compartment with frozen milk in it. If you want
a heater function, use a heater.

If you leave on winter vacation, and expect the light
bulb to heat the cabinet, it might well fail and there'd
be no balancing heat to allow maintaining two zones
at different temperatures. Like -15C for the freezer
compartment, and 1C or so for the milk.

Paul

On Sunday, 8 November 2020 09:12:11 UTC, Paul wrote:

And the color temperature and CRI, tell you what the
light will look like. The three on the right above are
2700K 90CRI, which means roughly "almost the same as
an incandescent". A warm-ish light, suitable for reading.
The 5000K 85CRI bulbs I bought, the floods, those
are dreadful, and I can't use those for anything.
And I don't really understand what goes on with those,
as the light is "white", but it's also "bleh" and
indescribable in any meaningful way. They don't
look bluish, as the 5000K would hint, there's no
sign of blue the way some bulbs at that color
temperature look. But the light is just awful
and you just want to turn it off. It's "poke in the eye"
awful. I'd rather light the room with a magnesium flare.

Paul

5000K means more blue & less red. It still looks white, just nasty.

People in cool countries mostly like warm white, which is of course lower CCT.
People in warm countries mostly like cool white, which is of course higher CCT.

White LEDs are cool white by nature, warm white ones have pale yellow or less often orange colour over them.


NT

On Sun, 08 Nov 2020 15:21:02 -0500, Paul
wrote:

Scott wrote:

My fridge needs the light to be permanently on when running below a
certain ambient temperature to force the compressor to keep working.
There is a winter switch for this purpose. I assume an LED light
would not produce enough heat for this to work. Is this an unusual
arrangement.

My machine has two or three (relatively low power)
heaters already.

Three heaters in one fridge? This sounds extremely energy
inefficient.

Why couldn't they have just fitted a heater of the
appropriate value, to strike a balance ?

Forgive my ignorance, but what does a 15W heater look like?

I would contact the manufacturer, present the question
to them, and see what kind of excuses they can make.

What question exactly? There is no fault and the fridge is working as
intended.

If you want to fix it, stick the fridge light bulb
back in it.

What makes you think the bulb has been removed? I did not say that.

As I understand it, some flavors of bulbs
will continue to be manufactured. but if a light
bulb only has 1000 hour life, using the fridge light
as a heater, is just asking for an in-service failure
and a compartment with frozen milk in it. If you want
a heater function, use a heater.

Does a fridge lamp only last 1,000 hours? If an ordinary lamp at room
temperature lasts 1,000 hours, I would expect a low powered lamp
continously refrigerated to last far, far longer.

If you leave on winter vacation, and expect the light
bulb to heat the cabinet, it might well fail and there'd
be no balancing heat to allow maintaining two zones
at different temperatures. Like -15C for the freezer
compartment, and 1C or so for the milk.

Good point.

In article ,
wrote:
White LEDs are cool white by nature, warm white ones have pale yellow or
less often orange colour over them.

Early ones often green. ;-)

--
*Most people have more than the average number of legs*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 08/11/2020 23:30, wrote:
On Sunday, 8 November 2020 09:12:11 UTC, Paul wrote:

And the color temperature and CRI, tell you what the
light will look like. The three on the right above are
2700K 90CRI, which means roughly "almost the same as
an incandescent". A warm-ish light, suitable for reading.
The 5000K 85CRI bulbs I bought, the floods, those
are dreadful, and I can't use those for anything.
And I don't really understand what goes on with those,
as the light is "white", but it's also "bleh" and
indescribable in any meaningful way. They don't
look bluish, as the 5000K would hint, there's no
sign of blue the way some bulbs at that color
temperature look. But the light is just awful
and you just want to turn it off. It's "poke in the eye"
awful. I'd rather light the room with a magnesium flare.

Paul

5000K means more blue & less red. It still looks white, just nasty.

People in cool countries mostly like warm white, which is of course lower CCT.
People in warm countries mostly like cool white, which is of course higher CCT.

White LEDs are cool white by nature, warm white ones have pale yellow or less often orange colour over them.

I would have thought that most white LEDs are *blue* by nature, with
fluorescent dyes to (more or less) fill in the spectrum. Others may be
RGB, but probably only so the hue can be adjusted.

--
Max Demian

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Max Demian wrote:
On 08/11/2020 23:30, wrote:
On Sunday, 8 November 2020 09:12:11 UTC, Paul wrote:

And the color temperature and CRI, tell you what the
light will look like. The three on the right above are
2700K 90CRI, which means roughly "almost the same as
an incandescent". A warm-ish light, suitable for reading.
The 5000K 85CRI bulbs I bought, the floods, those
are dreadful, and I can't use those for anything.
And I don't really understand what goes on with those,
as the light is "white", but it's also "bleh" and
indescribable in any meaningful way. They don't
look bluish, as the 5000K would hint, there's no
sign of blue the way some bulbs at that color
temperature look. But the light is just awful
and you just want to turn it off. It's "poke in the eye"
awful. I'd rather light the room with a magnesium flare.

Paul

5000K means more blue & less red. It still looks white, just nasty.

People in cool countries mostly like warm white, which is of course
lower CCT.
People in warm countries mostly like cool white, which is of course
higher CCT.

White LEDs are cool white by nature, warm white ones have pale yellow
or less often orange colour over them.

I would have thought that most white LEDs are *blue* by nature, with
fluorescent dyes to (more or less) fill in the spectrum. Others may be
RGB, but probably only so the hue can be adjusted.


I have seen nice looking 5000K lights.

One of the reasons this light bothers me,
is looking at it, you can't identify the flaw.

The spectrum shows it has a blue spike. Yet the
visual appearance doesn't have "the usual blue look"
to give that away. When I look at it, it's "flat white",
which as a statement makes no sense at all. There's not
a hint of blue in it, to the eye. And the CRI value
isn't bad enough to condemn it either.

As a result, the bulb holds a classification all of its own.
Unfit for any usage.

Paul

On 09/11/2020 20:25, Paul wrote:
Max Demian wrote:
On 08/11/2020 23:30, wrote:
On Sunday, 8 November 2020 09:12:11 UTC, PaulÂ* wrote:

And the color temperature and CRI, tell you what the
light will look like. The three on the right above are
2700K 90CRI, which means roughly "almost the same as
an incandescent". A warm-ish light, suitable for reading.
The 5000K 85CRI bulbs I bought, the floods, those
are dreadful, and I can't use those for anything.
And I don't really understand what goes on with those,
as the light is "white", but it's also "bleh" and
indescribable in any meaningful way. They don't
look bluish, as the 5000K would hint, there's no
sign of blue the way some bulbs at that color
temperature look. But the light is just awful
and you just want to turn it off. It's "poke in the eye"
awful. I'd rather light the room with a magnesium flare.

Â*Â*Â*Â* Paul

5000K means more blue & less red. It still looks white, just nasty.

People in cool countries mostly like warm white, which is of course
lower CCT.
People in warm countries mostly like cool white, which is of course
higher CCT.

White LEDs are cool white by nature, warm white ones have pale yellow
or less often orange colour over them.

I would have thought that most white LEDs are *blue* by nature, with
fluorescent dyes to (more or less) fill in the spectrum. Others may be
RGB, but probably only so the hue can be adjusted.


I have seen nice looking 5000K lights.

One of the reasons this light bothers me,
is looking at it, you can't identify the flaw.

The spectrum shows it has a blue spike. Yet the
visual appearance doesn't have "the usual blue look"
to give that away. When I look at it, it's "flat white",
which as a statement makes no sense at all. There's not
a hint of blue in it, to the eye. And the CRI value
isn't bad enough to condemn it either.

As a result, the bulb holds a classification all of its own.
Unfit for any usage.

Why is it important to have a flat spectrum?

--
Max Demian

Max Demian wrote:
On 09/11/2020 20:25, Paul wrote:
Max Demian wrote:
On 08/11/2020 23:30, wrote:
On Sunday, 8 November 2020 09:12:11 UTC, Paul wrote:

And the color temperature and CRI, tell you what the
light will look like. The three on the right above are
2700K 90CRI, which means roughly "almost the same as
an incandescent". A warm-ish light, suitable for reading.
The 5000K 85CRI bulbs I bought, the floods, those
are dreadful, and I can't use those for anything.
And I don't really understand what goes on with those,
as the light is "white", but it's also "bleh" and
indescribable in any meaningful way. They don't
look bluish, as the 5000K would hint, there's no
sign of blue the way some bulbs at that color
temperature look. But the light is just awful
and you just want to turn it off. It's "poke in the eye"
awful. I'd rather light the room with a magnesium flare.

Paul

5000K means more blue & less red. It still looks white, just nasty.

People in cool countries mostly like warm white, which is of course
lower CCT.
People in warm countries mostly like cool white, which is of course
higher CCT.

White LEDs are cool white by nature, warm white ones have pale
yellow or less often orange colour over them.

I would have thought that most white LEDs are *blue* by nature, with
fluorescent dyes to (more or less) fill in the spectrum. Others may
be RGB, but probably only so the hue can be adjusted.


I have seen nice looking 5000K lights.

One of the reasons this light bothers me,
is looking at it, you can't identify the flaw.

The spectrum shows it has a blue spike. Yet the
visual appearance doesn't have "the usual blue look"
to give that away. When I look at it, it's "flat white",
which as a statement makes no sense at all. There's not
a hint of blue in it, to the eye. And the CRI value
isn't bad enough to condemn it either.

As a result, the bulb holds a classification all of its own.
Unfit for any usage.

Why is it important to have a flat spectrum?


I'm trying to describe what it looks like.
Flat white means there is no hint of a coloration at all.

There are some other bulbs which have "character". The
light is not white from those.

Philips has screwed around with using a mixture of
LEDs in some of their bulbs, as an alternative to
solving all the problems by using expensive phosphors.
It is possible to tint the white bulbs a bit.

The 2700K ones, the spectrum has pretty well exactly
the same tilt as the spectrum of an incandescent. Which
is pretty amazing, when combined with the low purchase price.
Even if the lifetime has been degraded to make them
some extra pocket money. It looks like they've got the
engineering all figured out. As well figured out
as the car companies that put thin axles on cars.
The stuff I bought, I didn't seen any signs of
those "filament LEDs" inside.

I'm waiting now to find an article complaining
about the power factor. You'd think there would be
regulations for that.

Paul

On Monday, 9 November 2020 10:16:42 UTC, Scott wrote:

Does a fridge lamp only last 1,000 hours? If an ordinary lamp at room
temperature lasts 1,000 hours, I would expect a low powered lamp
continously refrigerated to last far, far longer.

A reduction of 15C is not significant.


NT

In article ,
Max Demian wrote:
Why is it important to have a flat spectrum?


It's not if all you want is illumination. Like emergency lighting.

However, if you want the colours you've chosen for your room to look OK in
artificial light too, you need a reasonably continuous spectrum light
source.

--
*You can't have everything, where would you put it?*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.