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Wiring extractor fan from the shower pull-switch - yes or no?
I'd like to wire the shower room extractor fan from the shower pull-switch so that it goes on with the shower and not the light. I found some info where one person said it's a no-no under current wiring regs but could be done via a contactor, and another says it can be done without a contactor as long as it goes via a fused spur from the shower switch.
Any electricians here can tell me which is the legal way to do it as I'd like to do it through a fused spur from the shower pull switch for simplicity.. |
Wiring extractor fan from the shower pull-switch - yes or no?
Why do you use the shower isolator in normal use? |
Wiring extractor fan from the shower pull-switch - yes or no?
On 27/10/2020 14:57, me wrote:
I'd like to wire the shower room extractor fan from the shower pull-switch so that it goes on with the shower and not the light. I found some info where one person said it's a no-no under current wiring regs but could be done via a contactor, and another says it can be done without a contactor as long as it goes via a fused spur from the shower switch. Any electricians here can tell me which is the legal way to do it as I'd like to do it through a fused spur from the shower pull switch for simplicity.. You can do it with a fused spur from the shower isolator switch it you want. You should label it at the consumer unit to avoid surprises for later maintainers. Also since you would be removing all power from the fan when you turn the switch off, you would lose any ability to have a an automatically timed run on after the shower. If you wanted to power and trigger the fan from the lighting circuit, but also trigger it from the shower circuit, then you get into the realms of needing contactors/relays etc to keep the circuits electrically isolated from each other. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
Wiring extractor fan from the shower pull-switch - yes or no?
On 27/10/2020 17:12, Jimk wrote:
Jimk Wrote in message: John Rumm Wrote in message: On 27/10/2020 14:57, me wrote: I'd like to wire the shower room extractor fan from the shower pull-switch so that it goes on with the shower and not the light. I found some info where one person said it's a no-no under current wiring regs but could be done via a contactor, and another says it can be done without a contactor as long as it goes via a fused spur from the shower switch. Any electricians here can tell me which is the legal way to do it as I'd like to do it through a fused spur from the shower pull switch for simplicity.. You can do it with a fused spur from the shower isolator switch it you want. You should label it at the consumer unit to avoid surprises for later maintainers. Also since you would be removing all power from the fan when you turn the switch off, you would lose any ability to have a an automatically timed run on after the shower. Could he wire it from the supply side of the shower switch & avoid that? The permanent live for overrun I mean... or even wire the fan into the shower itself, so picking up the permanent live before the controls and the switched live after the controls? Thus removing the risk of confusion if wired into the the shower isolation switch? S. |
Wiring extractor fan from the shower pull-switch - yes or no?
John Rumm Wrote in message:
On 27/10/2020 14:57, me wrote: I'd like to wire the shower room extractor fan from the shower pull-switch so that it goes on with the shower and not the light. I found some info where one person said it's a no-no under current wiring regs but could be done via a contactor, and another says it can be done without a contactor as long as it goes via a fused spur from the shower switch. Any electricians here can tell me which is the legal way to do it as I'd like to do it through a fused spur from the shower pull switch for simplicity.. You can do it with a fused spur from the shower isolator switch it you want. You should label it at the consumer unit to avoid surprises for later maintainers. Also since you would be removing all power from the fan when you turn the switch off, you would lose any ability to have a an automatically timed run on after the shower. Could he wire it from the supply side of the shower switch & avoid that? -- Jimk ----Android NewsGroup Reader---- http://usenet.sinaapp.com/ |
Wiring extractor fan from the shower pull-switch - yes or no?
Jimk Wrote in message:
John Rumm Wrote in message: On 27/10/2020 14:57, me wrote: I'd like to wire the shower room extractor fan from the shower pull-switch so that it goes on with the shower and not the light. I found some info where one person said it's a no-no under current wiring regs but could be done via a contactor, and another says it can be done without a contactor as long as it goes via a fused spur from the shower switch. Any electricians here can tell me which is the legal way to do it as I'd like to do it through a fused spur from the shower pull switch for simplicity.. You can do it with a fused spur from the shower isolator switch it you want. You should label it at the consumer unit to avoid surprises for later maintainers. Also since you would be removing all power from the fan when you turn the switch off, you would lose any ability to have a an automatically timed run on after the shower. Could he wire it from the supply side of the shower switch & avoid that? The permanent live for overrun I mean... -- Jimk ----Android NewsGroup Reader---- http://usenet.sinaapp.com/ |
Wiring extractor fan from the shower pull-switch - yes or no?
@John Rumm, not sure I understand what you're saying. What I intended was to run some three core and earth from the shower pull switch so that I'd have a permanent live and neutral and a switched live all going to the fan via a fused fan isolating switch. So the fan will still run on when the shower pull switch is turned off after using the shower. None of that would go near the consumer unit of course. Does that sound ok?
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Wiring extractor fan from the shower pull-switch - yes or no?
On 27/10/2020 14:57:12, me wrote:
I'd like to wire the shower room extractor fan from the shower pull-switch so that it goes on with the shower and not the light. I found some info where one person said it's a no-no under current wiring regs but could be done via a contactor, and another says it can be done without a contactor as long as it goes via a fused spur from the shower switch. Any electricians here can tell me which is the legal way to do it as I'd like to do it through a fused spur from the shower pull switch for simplicity. Most people would opt for a fan with a humidistat. |
Wiring extractor fan from the shower pull-switch - yes or no?
On 27/10/2020 17:30, me wrote:
@John Rumm, not sure I understand what you're saying. What I intended was to run some three core and earth from the shower pull switch so that I'd have a permanent live and neutral and a switched live all going to the fan via a fused fan isolating switch. So the fan will still run on when the shower pull switch is turned off after using the shower. None of that would go near the consumer unit of course. Does that sound ok? It's how mine is wired here. Except to the light, and not the shower -- €śThere are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isnt true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.€ť €”Soren Kierkegaard |
Wiring extractor fan from the shower pull-switch - yes or no?
Fredxx Wrote in message:
On 27/10/2020 14:57:12, me wrote: I'd like to wire the shower room extractor fan from the shower pull-switch so that it goes on with the shower and not the light. I found some info where one person said it's a no-no under current wiring regs but could be done via a contactor, and another says it can be done without a contactor as long as it goes via a fused spur from the shower switch. Any electricians here can tell me which is the legal way to do it as I'd like to do it through a fused spur from the shower pull switch for simplicity. Most people would opt for a fan with a humidistat. I wouldnt they fail all the time... -- Jimk ----Android NewsGroup Reader---- http://usenet.sinaapp.com/ |
Wiring extractor fan from the shower pull-switch - yes or no?
No Name Wrote in message:
On 27/10/2020 17:12, Jimk wrote: Jimk Wrote in message: John Rumm Wrote in message: On 27/10/2020 14:57, me wrote: I'd like to wire the shower room extractor fan from the shower pull-switch so that it goes on with the shower and not the light. I found some info where one person said it's a no-no under current wiring regs but could be done via a contactor, and another says it can be done without a contactor as long as it goes via a fused spur from the shower switch. Any electricians here can tell me which is the legal way to do it as I'd like to do it through a fused spur from the shower pull switch for simplicity.. You can do it with a fused spur from the shower isolator switch it you want. You should label it at the consumer unit to avoid surprises for later maintainers. Also since you would be removing all power from the fan when you turn the switch off, you would lose any ability to have a an automatically timed run on after the shower. Could he wire it from the supply side of the shower switch & avoid that? The permanent live for overrun I mean... or even wire the fan into the shower itself, so picking up the permanent live before the controls and the switched live after the controls? Thus removing the risk of confusion if wired into the the shower isolation switch? S. What "controls" are you talking about? -- Jimk ----Android NewsGroup Reader---- http://usenet.sinaapp.com/ |
Wiring extractor fan from the shower pull-switch - yes or no?
The Natural Philosopher Wrote in message:
On 27/10/2020 17:30, me wrote: @John Rumm, not sure I understand what you're saying. What I intended was to run some three core and earth from the shower pull switch so that I'd have a permanent live and neutral and a switched live all going to the fan via a fused fan isolating switch. So the fan will still run on when the shower pull switch is turned off after using the shower. None of that would go near the consumer unit of course. Does that sound ok? It's how mine is wired here. Except to the light, and not the shower Exactly what the op doesn't want then... -- Jimk ----Android NewsGroup Reader---- http://usenet.sinaapp.com/ |
Wiring extractor fan from the shower pull-switch - yes or no?
On 27/10/2020 17:12, Jimk wrote:
Jimk Wrote in message: John Rumm Wrote in message: On 27/10/2020 14:57, me wrote: I'd like to wire the shower room extractor fan from the shower pull-switch so that it goes on with the shower and not the light. I found some info where one person said it's a no-no under current wiring regs but could be done via a contactor, and another says it can be done without a contactor as long as it goes via a fused spur from the shower switch. Any electricians here can tell me which is the legal way to do it as I'd like to do it through a fused spur from the shower pull switch for simplicity.. You can do it with a fused spur from the shower isolator switch it you want. You should label it at the consumer unit to avoid surprises for later maintainers. Also since you would be removing all power from the fan when you turn the switch off, you would lose any ability to have a an automatically timed run on after the shower. Could he wire it from the supply side of the shower switch & avoid that? The permanent live for overrun I mean... You could although you would need to fuse that as well, since many fan manufacturers spec a 3A supply fuse. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
Wiring extractor fan from the shower pull-switch - yes or no?
On 27/10/2020 17:30, me wrote:
@John Rumm, not sure I understand what you're saying. What I intended was to run some three core and earth from the shower pull switch so that I'd have a permanent live and neutral and a switched live all going to the fan via a fused fan isolating switch. So the fan will still run on when the shower pull switch is turned off after using the shower. None of that would go near the consumer unit of course. Does that sound ok? Yup, that would be fine - your OP made it sound like you just wanted to pickup just from the switched live from the shower isolator. The only slight practical difficulty you may have is getting a good termination on the smaller fan cable at the same time as the (sometimes significantly) larger shower supply cable, bearing in mind shower connections need to be 'kin tight! You will also need to check that whatever cable you use to connect the fan is offered adequate fault current protection by the shower MCB. This is not likely to be a problem with say a B32 MCB and 1.5mm^2 3&E. But you start getting more marginal on larger MCBs and shorter cable lengths (as the prospective fault current rises). Having the fuse close to the main shower isolator helps reduce the risks. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
Wiring extractor fan from the shower pull-switch - yes or no?
John Rumm Wrote in message:
On 27/10/2020 17:12, Jimk wrote: Jimk Wrote in message: John Rumm Wrote in message: On 27/10/2020 14:57, me wrote: I'd like to wire the shower room extractor fan from the shower pull-switch so that it goes on with the shower and not the light. I found some info where one person said it's a no-no under current wiring regs but could be done via a contactor, and another says it can be done without a contactor as long as it goes via a fused spur from the shower switch. Any electricians here can tell me which is the legal way to do it as I'd like to do it through a fused spur from the shower pull switch for simplicity.. You can do it with a fused spur from the shower isolator switch it you want. You should label it at the consumer unit to avoid surprises for later maintainers. Also since you would be removing all power from the fan when you turn the switch off, you would lose any ability to have a an automatically timed run on after the shower. Could he wire it from the supply side of the shower switch & avoid that? The permanent live for overrun I mean... You could although you would need to fuse that as well, since many fan manufacturers spec a 3A supply fuse. Presumably it'll need fusing wherever it's fed from then? What's the neatest way to do that? -- Jimk ----Android NewsGroup Reader---- http://usenet.sinaapp.com/ |
Wiring extractor fan from the shower pull-switch - yes or no?
What about if I feed the permanent fan supply from a light fitting as normal with 1.5mm twin and earth cable and then run a 1mm twin and earth cable from the shower pull switch just for the switched live feed? That way the fan goes on with the shower pull switch but is not fed permanently by the shower circuit. Not sure where to fuse though if it is ok?
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Wiring extractor fan from the shower pull-switch - yes or no?
On 27/10/2020 20:15:09, me wrote:
What about if I feed the permanent fan supply from a light fitting as normal with 1.5mm twin and earth cable and then run a 1mm twin and earth cable from the shower pull switch just for the switched live feed? That way the fan goes on with the shower pull switch but is not fed permanently by the shower circuit. Not sure where to fuse though if it is ok? Your fan should not be fed from more than one circuit. If you want it to come on when the shower is on, you would need a relay, preferably a changeover one (SPDT) that won't put the bathroom light on at the same time as the fan. |
Wiring extractor fan from the shower pull-switch - yes or no?
On 27/10/2020 14:57:12, me wrote:
I'd like to wire the shower room extractor fan from the shower pull-switch so that it goes on with the shower and not the light. I found some info where one person said it's a no-no under current wiring regs but could be done via a contactor, and another says it can be done without a contactor as long as it goes via a fused spur from the shower switch. Any electricians here can tell me which is the legal way to do it as I'd like to do it through a fused spur from the shower pull switch for simplicity. Have you considered of a PIR sensor to detect someone in the bathroom? Might be additionally useful for when someone does a smelly No 2. |
Wiring extractor fan from the shower pull-switch - yes or no?
On 27/10/2020 20:15, me wrote:
What about if I feed the permanent fan supply from a light fitting as normal with 1.5mm twin and earth cable and then run a 1mm twin and earth cable from the shower pull switch just for the switched live feed? Really *really* bad idea - that would be powering one appliance from two separate circuits (which might not even share a RCD!) (not to mention feeding a lighting circuit wired in 1 or 1.5mm^2 T&E from combined nominal current rating on a pair of MCBs that could be over 50A) That way the fan goes on with the shower pull switch but is not fed permanently by the shower circuit. Not sure where to fuse though if it is ok? If you want to do something like that, then you would be better with an arrangement like: http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...tivated_switch -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
Wiring extractor fan from the shower pull-switch - yes or no?
On 27/10/2020 20:59, Fredxx wrote:
On 27/10/2020 20:15:09, me wrote: What about if I feed the permanent fan supply from a light fitting as normal with 1.5mm twin and earth cable and then run a 1mm twin and earth cable from the shower pull switch just for the switched live feed? That way the fan goes on with the shower pull switch but is not fed permanently by the shower circuit. Not sure where to fuse though if it is ok? Your fan should not be fed from more than one circuit. If you want it to come on when the shower is on, you would need a relay, preferably a changeover one (SPDT) that won't put the bathroom light on at the same time as the fan. Yup, played that game with a fan setup combining humidistat along with delayed light activated operation with timed run on: http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...d_humidista t (I had to use the second setup to prevent the humidistat turning on the light!) -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
Wiring extractor fan from the shower pull-switch - yes or no?
On 27/10/2020 19:41, Jimk wrote:
John Rumm Wrote in message: On 27/10/2020 17:12, Jimk wrote: Jimk Wrote in message: John Rumm Wrote in message: On 27/10/2020 14:57, me wrote: I'd like to wire the shower room extractor fan from the shower pull-switch so that it goes on with the shower and not the light. I found some info where one person said it's a no-no under current wiring regs but could be done via a contactor, and another says it can be done without a contactor as long as it goes via a fused spur from the shower switch. Any electricians here can tell me which is the legal way to do it as I'd like to do it through a fused spur from the shower pull switch for simplicity.. You can do it with a fused spur from the shower isolator switch it you want. You should label it at the consumer unit to avoid surprises for later maintainers. Also since you would be removing all power from the fan when you turn the switch off, you would lose any ability to have a an automatically timed run on after the shower. Could he wire it from the supply side of the shower switch & avoid that? The permanent live for overrun I mean... You could although you would need to fuse that as well, since many fan manufacturers spec a 3A supply fuse. Presumably it'll need fusing wherever it's fed from then? What's the neatest way to do that? FCU connected to the permanent live on the lighting circuit, its output feeding both the permanent live to the fan and the permanent live to the light switch. That way the switched live return from the switch is also appropriately fused. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
Wiring extractor fan from the shower pull-switch - yes or no?
On Tuesday, 27 October 2020 at 22:55:26 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...d_humidista t Yes that's how I'd like to do it but a home built one would not pass inspection. Is there a commercial version i can buy off the shelf? |
Wiring extractor fan from the shower pull-switch - yes or no?
On 28/10/2020 16:49, me wrote:
On Tuesday, 27 October 2020 at 22:55:26 UTC, John Rumm wrote: http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...d_humidista t Yes that's how I'd like to do it but a home built one would not pass inspection. Inspection by who? I would have thought that by its very nature, most relay switching and transient suppression is going to be built up for a special purpose and hence "home built" in pretty much any case. Is there a commercial version i can buy off the shelf? The fan I used and the humidistat were standard off the shelf parts - but separate. There are versions that combine timer operation with humidistat if you want as well: https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/ADQT120HT.html (although quite a bit more pricey). Part of the attraction of having the functions separated is that you can place the humidistat in a place where its easy to access and tweak the settings, without needing to get into the fan itself. Note that many fans with integrated electronics will specify that transient suppression be installed to protect them if the circuit also contains a number of other potential sources of mains transient including SMPSUs, Dimmers, Florescent lights etc. For example on the one above: "EMV regulation Important indication for the electromagnetic compatibility Interference resistance according to DIN EN 55014-2 depending upon impulse form and energy rate of 1000 V to 4000 V. With operation with fluorescent tubes, switch power supplies, electronically regulated halogen bulbs etc. these values can be exceeded. In this case additional suppression shielding activities are necessary (L -, C or RC elements, protection diodes, resistors)." -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
Wiring extractor fan from the shower pull-switch - yes or no?
On Wednesday, 28 October 2020 at 17:12:21 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 28/10/2020 16:49, me wrote: On Tuesday, 27 October 2020 at 22:55:26 UTC, John Rumm wrote: http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...d_humidista t Yes that's how I'd like to do it but a home built one would not pass inspection. Inspection by who? I would have thought that by its very nature, most relay switching and transient suppression is going to be built up for a special purpose and hence "home built" in pretty much any case. Is there a commercial version i can buy off the shelf? The fan I used and the humidistat were standard off the shelf parts - but separate. There are versions that combine timer operation with humidistat if you want as well: https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/ADQT120HT.html (although quite a bit more pricey). Part of the attraction of having the functions separated is that you can place the humidistat in a place where its easy to access and tweak the settings, without needing to get into the fan itself. Note that many fans with integrated electronics will specify that transient suppression be installed to protect them if the circuit also contains a number of other potential sources of mains transient including SMPSUs, Dimmers, Florescent lights etc. For example on the one above: "EMV regulation Important indication for the electromagnetic compatibility Interference resistance according to DIN EN 55014-2 depending upon impulse form and energy rate of 1000 V to 4000 V. With operation with fluorescent tubes, switch power supplies, electronically regulated halogen bulbs etc. these values can be exceeded. In this case additional suppression shielding activities are necessary (L -, C or RC elements, protection diodes, resistors)." -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ John thanks for the reply. I referenced the wrong thing, I meant the self-build current sensing switch you posted a link to. I could build one of those but as I say, inspection by the local council spark almost certainly won't pass because it obviously will have no industry standard test marks. So I found exactly the type of thing I would like on Amazon he https://www.amazon.co.uk/Precision-S...strial&sr=1-18 Now that is a Chinese made one so again I doubt it'd pass inspection, so my question was is there a UK made device such as that one? |
Wiring extractor fan from the shower pull-switch - yes or no?
On 29/10/2020 11:39, me wrote:
On Wednesday, 28 October 2020 at 17:12:21 UTC, John Rumm wrote: On 28/10/2020 16:49, me wrote: On Tuesday, 27 October 2020 at 22:55:26 UTC, John Rumm wrote: http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...d_humidista t Yes that's how I'd like to do it but a home built one would not pass inspection. Inspection by who? I would have thought that by its very nature, most relay switching and transient suppression is going to be built up for a special purpose and hence "home built" in pretty much any case. Is there a commercial version i can buy off the shelf? The fan I used and the humidistat were standard off the shelf parts - but separate. There are versions that combine timer operation with humidistat if you want as well: https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/ADQT120HT.html (although quite a bit more pricey). John thanks for the reply. I referenced the wrong thing, I meant the self-build current sensing switch you posted a link to. ah, ok sorry talking at cross purposes. I could build one of those but as I say, inspection by the local council spark almost certainly won't pass because it obviously will have no industry standard test marks. So I found exactly the type of thing I would like on Amazon he https://www.amazon.co.uk/Precision-S...strial&sr=1-18 Its relatively easy to find current sensing extension leads with slaved sockets. So it turns off the other sockets when you stop drawing power through a sense socket. Needless to say not much use for a shower. For that something like: https://www.eaton.com/us/en-us/catal...t-sensors.html Would be more appropriate -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
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