Hi,

I am preparing some acrylic-painted artist's canvases for overpainting, beginning by putting on some
layers of gesso. The brand of gesso I'm using is Winsor & Newton's "Professional", which is supposed
to have the best covering power of all the gessos they make. Nonetheless on some of the canvases I
have already put on three coats and may well need more.

Would something like Zinsser's "123" primer do the job better? I've always found it a good product,
although partly this is because my mind is still blown by a paint that you can put on top of oil-based gloss
or varnished wood and then, if you want, put emulsion on top of; and which manages to be water-based
and dry in half an hour. I can't recall ever needing more than two coats of it on anything. I've also found it
knocks Hammerite out of the park for painting ex-rusty metal, even if you don't sand off ever last scrap of
rust. As I understand it, it's basically an acrylic primer and sealant. Well so is gesso. Zinsser 123 and the
W&N gesso smell similar too. Could the 123 be described as "great when used as gesso"?

I'll test it to find out, but wondered whether anyone else had already done this.

Cheers,

Stephen

On 10/09/2020 21:39, Stephen Duppe wrote:
I am preparing some acrylic-painted artist's canvases for overpainting, beginning by putting on some
layers of gesso. The brand of gesso I'm using is Winsor & Newton's "Professional", which is supposed
to have the best covering power of all the gessos they make. Nonetheless on some of the canvases I
have already put on three coats and may well need more.

Would something like Zinsser's "123" primer do the job better?

No idea, but I would observe that if it's already been acrylic'd then
thats the way to go instead of rissing about with "real" gesso or making
your own with hide glue and chunks of the cretaceous Downs.

Chris Bacon wrote in
:

On 10/09/2020 21:39, Stephen Duppe wrote:
I am preparing some acrylic-painted artist's canvases for
overpainting, beginning by putting on some layers of gesso. The brand
of gesso I'm using is Winsor & Newton's "Professional", which is
supposed to have the best covering power of all the gessos they make.
Nonetheless on some of the canvases I have already put on three coats
and may well need more.

Would something like Zinsser's "123" primer do the job better?

No idea, but I would observe that if it's already been acrylic'd then
thats the way to go instead of rissing about with "real" gesso or
making your own with hide glue and chunks of the cretaceous Downs.

Thanks for this. I think the 123 contains chalk. Could be that they wouldn't be
in breach of the Trades Descriptions Act if they marketed it as "gesso"?

Stephen

On 10/09/2020 22:07, Stephen Duppe wrote:
Zinsser's "123"
Sorry, don't know. I would talk to them.

"To contact the Technical Support Team, call 0191 411 3166 or email
. Data sheets for each of the Zinsser
products can be found in the products section of this site"

( https://www.zinsseruk.com/technical-support/ )

Chris Bacon Wrote in message:
On 10/09/2020 22:07, Stephen Duppe wrote:
Zinsser's "123"
Sorry, don't know. I would talk to them.

"To contact the Technical Support Team, call 0191 411 3166 or email
. Data sheets for each of the Zinsser
products can be found in the products section of this site"

( https://www.zinsseruk.com/technical-support/ )


Like they'll say yes or no ;-)

Just try it FFS?
--
Jimk


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On 10/09/2020 23:57, Jimk wrote:
Chris Bacon Wrote in message:
On 10/09/2020 22:07, Stephen Duppe wrote:
Zinsser's "123"
Sorry, don't know. I would talk to them.

"To contact the Technical Support Team, call 0191 411 3166 or email
. Data sheets for each of the Zinsser
products can be found in the products section of this site"

( https://www.zinsseruk.com/technical-support/ )


Like they'll say yes or no ;-)

Just try it FFS?



--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 10/09/2020 23:57, Jimk wrote:
Chris Bacon Wrote in message:
On 10/09/2020 22:07, Stephen Duppe wrote:
Zinsser's "123"
Sorry, don't know. I would talk to them.

"To contact the Technical Support Team, call 0191 411 3166 or email
. Data sheets for each of the Zinsser
products can be found in the products section of this site"

( https://www.zinsseruk.com/technical-support/ )

Like they'll say yes or no ;-)

Just try it FFS?


Some people are very willing to talk about their product and interested
in things in general.

It costs nothing to talk. "FFS".

Chris Bacon Wrote in message:
On 10/09/2020 23:57, Jimk wrote:
Chris Bacon Wrote in message:
On 10/09/2020 22:07, Stephen Duppe wrote:
Zinsser's "123"
Sorry, don't know. I would talk to them.

"To contact the Technical Support Team, call 0191 411 3166 or email
. Data sheets for each of the Zinsser
products can be found in the products section of this site"

( https://www.zinsseruk.com/technical-support/ )

Like they'll say yes or no ;-)

Just try it FFS?


Some people are very willing to talk about their product and interested
in things in general.

It costs nothing to talk. "FFS".



Tell us what they say......dare you
--
Jimk


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

alan_m Wrote in message:
On 10/09/2020 23:57, Jimk wrote:
Chris Bacon Wrote in message:
On 10/09/2020 22:07, Stephen Duppe wrote:
Zinsser's "123"
Sorry, don't know. I would talk to them.

"To contact the Technical Support Team, call 0191 411 3166 or email
. Data sheets for each of the Zinsser
products can be found in the products section of this site"

( https://www.zinsseruk.com/technical-support/ )


Like they'll say yes or no ;-)

Just try it FFS?




Silent call?
--
Jimk


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On 11/09/2020 14:59, Jimk wrote:
Chris Bacon Wrote in message:
On 10/09/2020 23:57, Jimk wrote:
Chris Bacon Wrote in message:
On 10/09/2020 22:07, Stephen Duppe wrote:
Zinsser's "123"
Sorry, don't know. I would talk to them.

"To contact the Technical Support Team, call 0191 411 3166 or email
. Data sheets for each of the Zinsser
products can be found in the products section of this site"

( https://www.zinsseruk.com/technical-support/ )

Like they'll say yes or no ;-)

Just try it FFS?


Some people are very willing to talk about their product and interested
in things in general.

It costs nothing to talk. "FFS".



Tell us what they say......dare you

I assume there's something the matter with you and/or your comprehension.

1) You're using the juvenile and silly "us" construct, when you mean "me".
2) It's quite clear that I was advising the OPer to phone them, yet for
some reason, almost certainly connected to my first sentence in this
post, you want me to 'phone them.

Pffft. Pathetic.

On 10/09/2020 22:07, Stephen Duppe wrote:
I think the 123 contains chalk. Could be that they wouldn't be
in breach of the Trades Descriptions Act if they marketed it as "gesso"?

FWIW I was at Aldi this afternoon, they have "chalk paint" in litres at
a fiver. No idea what it's like, can't remember who makes it, you could
have a look (or not!). Colour: "Clotted Cream".

Chris Bacon Wrote in message:
On 11/09/2020 14:59, Jimk wrote:
Chris Bacon Wrote in message:
On 10/09/2020 23:57, Jimk wrote:
Chris Bacon Wrote in message:
On 10/09/2020 22:07, Stephen Duppe wrote:
Zinsser's "123"
Sorry, don't know. I would talk to them.

"To contact the Technical Support Team, call 0191 411 3166 or email
. Data sheets for each of the Zinsser
products can be found in the products section of this site"

( https://www.zinsseruk.com/technical-support/ )

Like they'll say yes or no ;-)

Just try it FFS?


Some people are very willing to talk about their product and interested
in things in general.

It costs nothing to talk. "FFS".



Tell us what they say......dare you

I assume there's something the matter with you and/or your comprehension.

1) You're using the juvenile and silly "us" construct, when you mean "me".
2) It's quite clear that I was advising the OPer to phone them, yet for
some reason, almost certainly connected to my first sentence in this
post, you want me to 'phone them.

Pffft. Pathetic.



Not at all...
You advocate some (imo dubious) course of action, I suggest *you*
do it & prove me wrong...

You bluster & squirm out of it.
Simples.
Prick.

--
Jimk


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

Chris Bacon wrote in :

On 10/09/2020 22:07, Stephen Duppe wrote:
I think the 123 contains chalk. Could be that they wouldn't be
in breach of the Trades Descriptions Act if they marketed it as "gesso"?

FWIW I was at Aldi this afternoon, they have "chalk paint" in litres at
a fiver. No idea what it's like, can't remember who makes it, you could
have a look (or not!). Colour: "Clotted Cream".

Ah yes, "chalk paint". I've heard of people using this ultra-matt stuff on furniture and then "distressing"
or waxing it. I haven't heard of it used as a ground on art paintings before, or as an undercoat of any
description, but since some may contain chalk I will investigate. Thanks for this.

I am in the process of "reclaiming" four canvases, using both Winsor and Newton "professional"
gesso and Zinsser 123 and can report as follows.

The 123 has been better at blanking out the underlying colours that have been worst at showing
through - worse than black - namely blue and purple.

The gesso dries matt; the 123, satin.

Neither has been great at hiding brush strokes. I will investigate using washes with both and also
sanding.

123 as a satin ground with gloss colours applied on top might be right up my street, with no need to
varnish the canvas later.

Stephen

On 11/9/20 6:39 am, Stephen Duppe wrote:
Hi,

I am preparing some acrylic-painted artist's canvases for overpainting, beginning by putting on some
layers of gesso. The brand of gesso I'm using is Winsor & Newton's "Professional", which is supposed
to have the best covering power of all the gessos they make. Nonetheless on some of the canvases I
have already put on three coats and may well need more.

Would something like Zinsser's "123" primer do the job better? I've always found it a good product,
although partly this is because my mind is still blown by a paint that you can put on top of oil-based gloss
or varnished wood and then, if you want, put emulsion on top of; and which manages to be water-based
and dry in half an hour. I can't recall ever needing more than two coats of it on anything. I've also found it
knocks Hammerite out of the park for painting ex-rusty metal, even if you don't sand off ever last scrap of
rust. As I understand it, it's basically an acrylic primer and sealant. Well so is gesso. Zinsser 123 and the
W&N gesso smell similar too. Could the 123 be described as "great when used as gesso"?

I'll test it to find out, but wondered whether anyone else had already done this.

Cheers,

Stephen

Ordinary acrylic undercoat,even works under oils.