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Default Problems accessing NAS


This is a continuation of the Fritzbox story, whereby the Fritzbox has a
USB hard drive plugged in, which I can see and access perfectly via my
laptop, but not via wife's laptop. Both connected by wi-fi.

I think this must be a permissions or sharing problem - but am not sure.
We're running W10 on both laptops. Using wife's, I have now mapped a
network drive and can see the external hard drive, but clicking the hard
drive gives the message 'This folder is empty'. Clicking that drive on
my laptop, I see the expected content.

We both have user names and passwords, and can both log onto the
Fritzbox itself, and both seem to have the same access rights.

I've convinced myself it is a problem with Windows settings on her
laptop, but beyond that?

Any brilliant ideas? Thanks.

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Graeme wrote:

This is a continuation of the Fritzbox story, whereby the Fritzbox has a
USB hard drive plugged in, which I can see and access perfectly via my
laptop, but not via wife's laptop. Both connected by wi-fi.

I think this must be a permissions or sharing problem - but am not sure.
We're running W10 on both laptops. Using wife's, I have now mapped a
network drive and can see the external hard drive, but clicking the hard
drive gives the message 'This folder is empty'. Clicking that drive on
my laptop, I see the expected content.

We both have user names and passwords, and can both log onto the
Fritzbox itself, and both seem to have the same access rights.

I've convinced myself it is a problem with Windows settings on her
laptop, but beyond that?

Any brilliant ideas? Thanks.


You could try "Show Hidden Files".

The hard part, is in File Explorer, finding where the Options
thing is, and this dialog is triggered from there.

https://www.easeus.com/images/en/dat...dden-files.png

You set up the desired values, click Apply. That will set the
current folder to display Hidden (including the desktop.ini file).
You don't want to see the desktop.ini file (it contains folder
view customization info), but seeing it is proof you're looking
at the contents of the folder. For example, if the folder had
only JPG files, a special customization can be used to display
JPGs as thumbnails, and the instructions to tell File Explorer
what to do, are inside desktop.ini .

If you click Apply To Folders in that dialog, then every folder
would adopt the new settings chosen. I usually run with
Hidden stuff showing, in *every* folder, cause I'm a nosey guy.
Not everyone wants that.

That dialog is one of the first dialogs I modify after installing
a fresh copy of Windows. For example, I like to turn on
File Extensions too, so that

Report \___ different icons
Report /

becomes

Report.txt
Report.xlsx

I want to see that .txt part. Always. Especially if it is

dangerous.txt.scr

which is trying to trick me into running malware (screensaver
executable).

*******

A suitably obscure combination of permissions might produce
the same symptoms. There are "permissions" and "attributes",
and Hidden is an Attribute. The above discussion was making
a change so that an Attribute did not block visibility.
If you don't have Permission to the folder, that's a separate issue.
You probably could not look in the folder, unless some
level of Permission was granted.

Permissions include "Allow" and "Deny". Deny is a bitch,
because it's so hard to debug. Inheritance is also a bitch,
and makes fixing some problems in Windows file systems,
almost impossible to figure out. Even if you walk up the
tree and check every item above where you're working, the
Inheritance issues might still not make sense.

Even IT guys who write web pages on this topic, give up
after a while. A good article on the topic is *50 pages long*
and the dude will still stop and say "some features, I'm
not going to write those up". That's how awful this stuff is.

Jesper M. Johansson has written or contributed some
articles on Permissions. That's the only name that
stood out over the years.

Paul
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In message , Paul
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Graeme wrote:
This is a continuation of the Fritzbox story, whereby the Fritzbox
has a USB hard drive plugged in, which I can see and access perfectly
via my laptop, but not via wife's laptop. Both connected by wi-fi.


You could try "Show Hidden Files".

Thanks Paul. I have set Show Hidden Files and Show File Extensions, but
am no further forward.

I can 'see' the drive, left clicking it shows the usual properties i.e.
capacity and left clicking it just tells me This Folder is Empty.

I have set up a third laptop in similar manner, with identical results,
and have convinced myself I am missing something blindingly obvious,
which is somewhat annoying. I just can't understand how I set up my own
laptop perfectly yet have failed miserably with two others.

Thinking further, what I can see from wife's laptop is the whole drive,
not the individual partitions I see from my own laptop.

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On 09/09/2020 08:13, Graeme wrote:
In message , Paul
writes
Graeme wrote:
*This is a continuation of the Fritzbox story, whereby the Fritzbox
has a* USB hard drive plugged in, which I can see and access
perfectly via my* laptop, but not via wife's laptop.* Both connected
by wi-fi.


You could try "Show Hidden Files".

Thanks Paul.* I have set Show Hidden Files and Show File Extensions, but
am no further forward.

I can 'see' the drive, left clicking it shows the usual properties i.e.
capacity and left clicking it just tells me This Folder is Empty.



Have you still got the file open on your computer therefore stopping
anyone else from accessing its contents?

Try tuning off your computer, rebooting the Fritz box and see if the
second computer now sees the files. Then turn on your computer to see
if the problem has now swapped between computers.

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On 09/09/2020 08:13, Graeme wrote:
In message , Paul
writes
Graeme wrote:
*This is a continuation of the Fritzbox story, whereby the Fritzbox
has a* USB hard drive plugged in, which I can see and access
perfectly via my* laptop, but not via wife's laptop.* Both connected
by wi-fi.


You could try "Show Hidden Files".

Thanks Paul.* I have set Show Hidden Files and Show File Extensions, but
am no further forward.

I can 'see' the drive, left clicking it shows the usual properties i.e.
capacity and left clicking it just tells me This Folder is Empty.

I have set up a third laptop in similar manner, with identical results,
and have convinced myself I am missing something blindingly obvious,
which is somewhat annoying.* I just can't understand how I set up my own
laptop perfectly yet have failed miserably with two others.

Thinking further, what I can see from wife's laptop is the whole drive,
not the individual partitions I see from my own laptop.



I had an issue with my 5 NAS drives suddenly becoming inaccessible.

I tracked it down to a Windows 10 upgrade switching off SMB 1.0 and
enabling SMB 2.0 and SMB 3.0.

( SMB is SAMBA )

Only trouble was that all 5 NAS drives only supported SMB 1.0 and the
manufacturers had End of Lifed them so upgrading the firmware to SMB 2.0
or SMB 3.0 was out of the question.

Fortunately, you can actually re-enable SMB 1.0 in Windows 1o via the
Windows Features app in Control panel.

Be warned though, SMB 1.0 is full of security holes as that was why it
was switched off in a Winodws 10 update. SO to protect my security I
disabled remote access via the router and also disabled remote access on
all 5 NAS drives.

I also implemented a MAC address white list and strong passphrase on the
Wifi network too.

S.


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On 08/09/2020 17:04, Graeme wrote:


We both have user names and passwords, and can both log onto the
Fritzbox itself, and both seem to have the same access rights.


Are you using different user names and passwords to access the NAS USB
disk? If so it's maybe its a configuration issue - see section 2 in the
link below which suggests that individual users can be restricted from
seeing the contents of the disk, or only have limited access.

https://en.avm.de/service/fritzbox/f...-to-FRITZ-Box/




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On 09/09/2020 09:09, No Name wrote:

I tracked it down to a Windows 10 upgrade switching off SMB 1.0 and
enabling SMB 2.0 and SMB 3.0.


The Fritzbox in question had an upgrade available for the latest (later)
version of SAMBA support on the very day that the OP originally asked
about connecting a USB drive to the Fritzbox. I assume that the OP
downloaded and installed the upgrade (or the automatic upgrade was
selected in the Fritzbox menu)

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Graeme wrote:

I can 'see' the drive, left clicking it shows the usual properties i.e.
capacity and left clicking it just tells me This Folder is Empty.


sounds like permissions, these can apply to the share itself, or to the
files and folders, can you create a new file in the "empty" folder?

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In message , Andy Burns
writes
Graeme wrote:

I can 'see' the drive, left clicking it shows the usual properties
i.e. capacity and left clicking it just tells me This Folder is Empty.


sounds like permissions, these can apply to the share itself, or to the
files and folders, can you create a new file in the "empty" folder?

Andy, no, in that left clicking brings up a limited menu that does not
include New Folder.

However, progress. Fritzbox software is up to date. I shut down all 3
laptops then cold booted the Fritzbox and the attached NAS, then booted
wife's laptop only.

I cannot map a network drive from her laptop to the NAS, which has 5
partitions, each of which is mapped as a drive on my laptop. When I
click Map Network Drive under Explorer, on my laptop I see Fritzbox, my
laptop and any other laptop that is running. On wife's, I see only her
laptop.

Using Explorer on wife's laptop, selecting This PC on the left, I can
see the Fritzbox and the partitions on the right, so I left clicked the
'Films' partition and selected Pin to Quick Access. That then appeared
as a folder on the left of Explorer, and clicking it brought up a list
of files on the right. Random tested a few, and they work.

Then, I booted my laptop which worked as before - both laptops now able
to play the same or two different films perfectly, and simultaneously.

Strangely, when I look at the list of films (which are not all the same
file type) on my laptop, I see all the films and any associated srt
(subtitle) files. On wife's, I see only the film files, not the
subtitles. Similarly, looking at another partition, called Music, I see
the complete content via my laptop, but not hers. I haven't worked out
the logic of the files on her laptop I can't see, yet.

So, getting there, and usable, but still not 100% right.

--
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Graeme wrote:

When I click Map Network Drive under Explorer, on my laptop I see
Fritzbox, my laptop and any other laptop that is running.* On wife's, I
see only her laptop.


has her laptop got link layer discovery mapper (and responder) installed
under adapter properties?

does her laptop show up when you go into map drives on ypur laptop?



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On 09/09/2020 12:55, Graeme wrote:

I cannot map a network drive from her laptop to the NAS, which has 5
partitions, each of which is mapped as a drive on my laptop.* When I
click Map Network Drive under Explorer, on my laptop I see Fritzbox, my
laptop and any other laptop that is running.* On wife's, I see only her
laptop.


try typing in the search box in the bottom bar of the Win10 screen

\\192.168.178.xx
(the ip of the box where xx may be 01, 00 or something else depending on
your configuration)

You should then get a user name password box appearing
This is the user/pass for the NAS set up on the Fritz box

This should get a entry of 192.168.178.xx in the network section of
windows explorer

Click on 192.168.178.xx to expand to get the fritz.nas and right click
to get the map network drive option.

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In message , Andy Burns
writes
Graeme wrote:

When I click Map Network Drive under Explorer, on my laptop I see
Fritzbox, my laptop and any other laptop that is running.* On wife's,
I see only her laptop.


has her laptop got link layer discovery mapper (and responder)
installed under adapter properties?


Yes, as has mine. The only one not ticked on either laptop is Microsoft
Network Adapter Multiplexor Protocol

does her laptop show up when you go into map drives on ypur laptop?

Yes. When I go into map drives on my laptop, I see the Fritzbox and
three laptops - mine, hers, and a spare one I've been playing with.
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In message , alan_m
writes
On 09/09/2020 12:55, Graeme wrote:

I cannot map a network drive from her laptop to the NAS,


try typing in the search box in the bottom bar of the Win10 screen

\\192.168.178.xx


It Works! Thank you - that seems to have solved the problem. I didn't
do quite as you said, because wife's laptop doesn't have the search
option, so instead, when trying to map a network drive, in the browse
box, I entered the IP address and up it came. From there, mapping the
contents of each partition was straightforward. Thank you. Brownie
points earned :-)

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On 09/09/2020 17:22, Graeme wrote:
In message , alan_m
writes
On 09/09/2020 12:55, Graeme wrote:

I cannot map a network drive from her laptop to the NAS,


try typing in the search box in the bottom bar of the Win10 screen

\\192.168.178.xx


It Works!* Thank you - that seems to have solved the problem.* I didn't
do quite as you said, because wife's laptop doesn't have the search
option, so instead, when trying to map a network drive, in the browse
box, I entered the IP address and up it came.* From there, mapping the
contents of each partition was straightforward.* Thank you.* Brownie
points earned :-)


Ah... if you can access it via IP but not via Hostname then that sounds
like an issue with NetBIOS and/or Netbeui or you need to create a
Hostnames list.

Lets hope ou have static IP addresses.... otherwise the IP addresses
could change when the DHCP leases are renewed. (probably not an issue
for teh router as that generally stays the same IP address.

S.
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In message , No Name
writes
On 09/09/2020 17:22, Graeme wrote:
It Works!* Thank you - that seems to have solved the problem.


Ah... if you can access it via IP but not via Hostname then that sounds
like an issue with NetBIOS and/or Netbeui or you need to create a
Hostnames list.


I don't know what that means :-(

Lets hope ou have static IP addresses.... otherwise the IP addresses
could change when the DHCP leases are renewed. (probably not an issue
for teh router as that generally stays the same IP address.


Or that. I know the IP address of the router, and I'm sure our external
'Zen' IP address is fixed, but beyond that ...

Very reluctant to change anything while it works, to be honest. Even
more Brownie points now, having managed to connect wife's iPad to the
NAS, too.
--
Graeme


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On 10/09/2020 07:33, Graeme wrote:

Or that.* I know the IP address of the router, and I'm sure our external
'Zen' IP address is fixed, but beyond that ...

Yep, your Zen IP is static/fixed and will not change but its the box IP
that matters and the chances with a typical domestic set-up that will
remain the same.




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In message , alan_m
writes
On 10/09/2020 07:33, Graeme wrote:

Or that.* I know the IP address of the router, and I'm sure our
external 'Zen' IP address is fixed, but beyond that ...

Yep, your Zen IP is static/fixed and will not change but its the box IP
that matters and the chances with a typical domestic set-up that will
remain the same.


Having done a little reading, I have found and opened Hosts (with
Notepad), and there are a million entries by Spybot, and one for Demon,
who I left years ago.

All the Spybot entries and the one Demon entry point to localhost
127.0.0.1. There are no entries identifying anything within our home
network - I was expecting xxx.x.x.x my laptop xxx.x.x.x wife's laptop
xxx.x.x.x printer etc., or have I misunderstood?
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On 10/09/2020 07:49, Graeme wrote:
In message , alan_m
writes
On 10/09/2020 07:33, Graeme wrote:

Or that.* I know the IP address of the router, and I'm sure our
external* 'Zen' IP address is fixed, but beyond that ...

Yep, your Zen IP is static/fixed and will not change but its the box
IP that matters and the chances with a typical domestic set-up that
will remain the same.


Having done a little reading, I have found and opened Hosts (with
Notepad), and there are a million entries by Spybot, and one for Demon,
who I left years ago.

All the Spybot entries and the one Demon entry point to localhost
127.0.0.1.* There are no entries identifying anything within our home
network - I was expecting xxx.x.x.x my laptop xxx.x.x.x wife's laptop
xxx.x.x.x printer etc., or have I misunderstood?



You can put in your own entries in the LMhosts file in the form you
mention. This will work well if (a) you are using static addresses and
(b) you do the same on *all* machines but I can't see that being
possible on the Ipad!

You may want to check to see if you can create a Hosts or a FQDN list
file on the Fritz box, I know nothing about Fritz bioxe....

Check your NetBIOS status on all of your machines

Go to Network and Sharing Center.
Click "Change adapter settings."
Select your network adapter (e.g., "Local Area Connection")
Click "Change settings for this connection"
Select "Internet Protocol version 4 (TCP/IPv4)" and click the
"Properties" button
Click the "Advanced" button on the "General" tab
Select the "WINS" tab
Select the radio button to "Enable NetBIOS over TCP/IP"
OK your way out

This was more necessary in XP, because Win 7 and 10 is supposed to check
to see if the DHCP server (i.e., your router) provides the NetBIOS
setting and enables NetBIOS

if the DHCP server does not provide a setting (home routers do not).

Still, it wouldn't hurt to explicitly enable NetBIOS.
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No Name wrote:
On 09/09/2020 17:22, Graeme wrote:
In message , alan_m
writes
On 09/09/2020 12:55, Graeme wrote:

I cannot map a network drive from her laptop to the NAS,

try typing in the search box in the bottom bar of the Win10 screen

\\192.168.178.xx


It Works! Thank you - that seems to have solved the problem. I
didn't do quite as you said, because wife's laptop doesn't have the
search option, so instead, when trying to map a network drive, in the
browse box, I entered the IP address and up it came. From there,
mapping the contents of each partition was straightforward. Thank
you. Brownie points earned :-)


Ah... if you can access it via IP but not via Hostname then that sounds
like an issue with NetBIOS and/or Netbeui or you need to create a
Hostnames list.

Lets hope ou have static IP addresses.... otherwise the IP addresses
could change when the DHCP leases are renewed. (probably not an issue
for teh router as that generally stays the same IP address.

S.


Check and see if the two Services that begin with
the word "Function" are running. They're like
"Function Discovery" or similar. That might have
something to do with nameserving.

Homegroups (deprecated) uses a total of seven services.
The two Function ones were part of that. Some of those
services might be shared with other functions like Workgroups,
which is why you can check those to see if they started or not.

I always turn on the SMBV1 (two of three entries) in
Windows Features, because my subnet has one WinXP machine.

Paul
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On 10/09/2020 09:16, No Name wrote:
On 10/09/2020 07:49, Graeme wrote:
In message , alan_m
writes
On 10/09/2020 07:33, Graeme wrote:

Or that.* I know the IP address of the router, and I'm sure our
external* 'Zen' IP address is fixed, but beyond that ...
Yep, your Zen IP is static/fixed and will not change but its the box
IP that matters and the chances with a typical domestic set-up that
will remain the same.


Having done a little reading, I have found and opened Hosts (with
Notepad), and there are a million entries by Spybot, and one for
Demon, who I left years ago.

All the Spybot entries and the one Demon entry point to localhost
127.0.0.1.* There are no entries identifying anything within our home
network - I was expecting xxx.x.x.x my laptop xxx.x.x.x wife's laptop
xxx.x.x.x printer etc., or have I misunderstood?



You can put in your own entries in the LMhosts file in the form you
mention. This will work well if (a) you are using static addresses and
(b) you do the same on *all* machines but I can't see that being
possible on the Ipad!


I think this is all a red herring. SMB servers advertise themselves on a
local area network using a particular protocol

" nmbd

The nmbd server daemon understands and replies to NetBIOS name service
requests such as those produced by SMB/CIFS in Windows-based systems.
These systems include Windows 95/98/ME, Windows NT, Windows 2000,
Windows XP, and LanManager clients. It also participates in the browsing
protocols that make up the Windows Network Neighborhood view. The
default port that the server listens to for NMB traffic is UDP port 137.
The nmbd daemon is controlled by the smb service. "

So if nmbd is running on the NAS a properly configured client will 'see'
it in the networks window"

Also samba does not use Netbeui, so netbios and TCP/IP must be enabled
for anything to work at all.




--
People believe certain stories because everyone important tells them,
and people tell those stories because everyone important believes them.
Indeed, when a conventional wisdom is at its fullest strength, ones
agreement with that conventional wisdom becomes almost a litmus test of
ones suitability to be taken seriously.

Paul Krugman


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The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I think this is all a red herring.


Maybe ... on corporate networks you have domain controllers acting as
DNS (and even still WINS) servers to allow servers to register
themselves and clients to find servers without resorting to "shouty"
protocols

SMB servers advertise themselves on a
local area network using a particular protocol

" nmbd

The nmbd server daemon understands and replies to NetBIOS name service
requests such as those produced by SMB/CIFS in Windows-based systems.
These systems include Windows 95/98/ME, Windows NT, Windows 2000,
Windows XP, and LanManager clients. It also participates in the browsing
protocols that make up the Windows Network Neighborhood view. The
default port that the server listens to for NMB traffic is UDP port 137.
The nmbd daemon is controlled by the smb service. "


The netbios 137-139 ports are pretty old hat nowadays, the smb 445 port
method has been the default since (IIRC) Vista.

Seems a lot of routers than include NAS functionality use ancient
versions of SAMBA
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On 10/09/2020 12:31, Andy Burns wrote:

Seems a lot of routers than include NAS functionality use ancient
versions of SAMBA


In this case the router supports versions 1, 2, and 3 of SMB

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