who has got caught out by the Zanzibar effect when calibrating
things..me for one

On 22/08/2020 07:27, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Zanzibar effect


I bet more people get caught out by assuming that last digit in a
digital display means that the measuring equipment is accurate to that
resolution or not understanding that (+/-1%. +2) may mean an inaccuracy
in measurement of 10%, or more, in what they are trying to measure.

This is assuming that the £5 multimeter from China was even checked for
correct reading in the first place.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 22/08/2020 10:40, alan_m wrote:
On 22/08/2020 07:27, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Zanzibar effect


I bet more people get caught out by assuming that last digit in a
digital display means that the measuring equipment is accurate to that
resolution or not understanding that (+/-1%. +2) may mean an inaccuracy
in measurement of 10%, or more, in what they are trying to measure.

This is assuming that the £5 multimeter from China was even checked for
correct reading in the first place.

very true I never have the last digit on on my ham rigso on for that
reason and the fact that I calibrated them myself...tee hee....near
enough is good enough for me.....

On 22/08/2020 10:54, Tim Streater wrote:
On 22 Aug 2020 at 10:40:05 BST, alan_m wrote:

On 22/08/2020 07:27, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Zanzibar effect


I bet more people get caught out by assuming that last digit in a
digital display means that the measuring equipment is accurate to that
resolution or not understanding that (+/-1%. +2) may mean an inaccuracy
in measurement of 10%, or more, in what they are trying to measure.

This is assuming that the £5 multimeter from China was even checked for
correct reading in the first place.

That's prolly because most people have never come across the concept of errors
in measuring equipment.

I will be honest up to until one of my multimeters told me my PSU was
giving 14.1 volts and another said 13.8 volts I never questioned any
multimeters.....but now I am on Zanzibar time as I adjusted them all to
match the one I thought was accurate...tee hee...near enough is good
enough for me....

In article ,
alan_m wrote:
On 22/08/2020 07:27, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Zanzibar effect


I bet more people get caught out by assuming that last digit in a
digital display means that the measuring equipment is accurate to that
resolution or not understanding that (+/-1%. +2) may mean an inaccuracy
in measurement of 10%, or more, in what they are trying to measure.

This is assuming that the £5 multimeter from China was even checked for
correct reading in the first place.

I can remember the BBC sending back a large delivery of Avo 8s which were
all out of spec ;-(

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 22/08/2020 12:38, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:


I will be honest up to until one of my multimeters told me my PSU was
giving 14.1 volts and another said 13.8 volts I never questioned any
multimeters.....but now I am on Zanzibar time as I adjusted them all to
match the one I thought was accurate...tee hee...near enough is good
enough for me....

Multimeters also give inaccurate results if the internal batteries are
close to end of life.


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 22/08/2020 12:35, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:


very true I never have the last digit on on my ham rigso on for that
reason and the fact that I calibrated them myself...tee hee....near
enough is good enough for me.....

You have NOT calibrated them yourself unless you have a calibrated
source as a comparison.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 22/08/2020 12:45, charles wrote:
In article ,
alan_m wrote:
On 22/08/2020 07:27, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Zanzibar effect


I bet more people get caught out by assuming that last digit in a
digital display means that the measuring equipment is accurate to that
resolution or not understanding that (+/-1%. +2) may mean an inaccuracy
in measurement of 10%, or more, in what they are trying to measure.

This is assuming that the £5 multimeter from China was even checked for
correct reading in the first place.

I can remember the BBC sending back a large delivery of Avo 8s which were
all out of spec ;-(



40+ years ago I worked in a calibration lab and can remember every
single expensive Philips multimeter being out of spec, even when
straight from their factory.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 22/08/2020 12:49, alan_m wrote:
On 22/08/2020 12:35, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:


very true I never have the last digit on on my ham rigso on for that
reason and the fact that I calibrated them myself...tee hee....near
enough is good enough for me.....

You have NOT calibrated them yourself unless you have a calibrated
source as a comparison.

I know that but near enough is good enough

On 22/08/2020 12:45, charles wrote:
In article ,
alan_m wrote:
On 22/08/2020 07:27, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Zanzibar effect


I bet more people get caught out by assuming that last digit in a
digital display means that the measuring equipment is accurate to that
resolution or not understanding that (+/-1%. +2) may mean an inaccuracy
in measurement of 10%, or more, in what they are trying to measure.

This is assuming that the £5 multimeter from China was even checked for
correct reading in the first place.

I can remember the BBC sending back a large delivery of Avo 8s which were
all out of spec ;-(

I got a NATO issue one up ra barras in Glasgow

In article , Tim Streater
wrote:
On 22 Aug 2020 at 12:46:46 BST, alan_m wrote:

On 22/08/2020 12:38, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:


I will be honest up to until one of my multimeters told me my PSU was
giving 14.1 volts and another said 13.8 volts I never questioned any
multimeters.....but now I am on Zanzibar time as I adjusted them all
to match the one I thought was accurate...tee hee...near enough is
good enough for me....

Multimeters also give inaccurate results if the internal batteries are
close to end of life.

I remember from school there being a certain type of battery that had a
very precise voltage and well defined, so it was used to calibrate
against. Can't remember what it was called, though. Anyone?

Reference cell

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

"alan_m" wrote in message
...
40+ years ago I worked in a calibration lab and can remember every single
expensive Philips multimeter being out of spec, even when straight from
their factory.

Were they all out spec by the same amount, or was there a spread of readings
for the same test source?

Digital meters which quote an unfeasible number of digits of precision are
probably only useful (in the last digit or so) for comparing two different
voltages in quick succession to see how one differs from the other, and
measured near-simultaneously so thermal drift is less likely to be an issue.

My Uni-T multimeter quotes voltages in the 0-2V range to 3 decimal places. I
might trust it to show a difference of 10 mV between two signals, without
necessarily knowing whether a reading of 1.318 V was correct compared with a
known-good reference cell. I might trust that a change in the final 3rd
digit was valid if I got a consistent reading over several seconds that then
changed by +/- 1 mV and remained consistent over several seconds when
something happened. For example, comparing a battery voltage with and
without a load applied. But I wouldn't go so far as to say that the change
was 1 mV as opposed to "a few mV".

"Jim GM4DHJ ..." wrote in message
...
who has got caught out by the Zanzibar effect when calibrating things..me
for one

What is the Zanzibar effect? I can't find anything on Google so it's
evidently not a widely-known term.

On 22/08/2020 14:58, NY wrote:
"Jim GM4DHJ ..." wrote in message
...
who has got caught out by the Zanzibar effect when calibrating
things..me for one

What is the Zanzibar effect? I can't find anything on Google so it's
evidently not a widely-known term.


Zanzibar effect

The famous story of the retired sea-captain on the island who takes his
time from the watchmaker in town only to find out that the watchmaker
uses the sea-captains cannon shots at 12 noon each day to set his own
clocks! [Attributed to Harrison (MIT) by Petley.]

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 22 Aug 2020 14:58:08 +0100, "NY" wrote:

"Jim GM4DHJ ..." wrote in message
...
who has got caught out by the Zanzibar effect when calibrating
things..me
for one

What is the Zanzibar effect? I can't find anything on Google so it's
evidently not a widely-known term.

Zanzibar time : https://tinyurl.com/suqbk29

Basically, a circular calibration process. A calibrates his instrument
against an instrument owned by B, who unbeknown to A, calibrates his
instrument against A's.

Interesting that googling for the phrase as quoted "zanzibar effect" does
not produce any matches. Lots of matches for the country of that name, but
nothing else. Even googling for "zanzibar time" or "zanzibar effect time"
doesn't produce any matches.

I can understand the problem of circular calibration, but I'd never have
been able to discover or even guess what it was from the phrase, assuming I
hadn't already heard of it.

On 22/08/2020 17:45, NY wrote:
"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 22 Aug 2020 14:58:08 +0100, "NY" wrote:

"Jim GM4DHJ ..." wrote in message
...
who has got caught out by the Zanzibar effect when calibrating
things..me
for one

What is the Zanzibar effect? I can't find anything on Google so it's
evidently not a widely-known term.

Zanzibar time : https://tinyurl.com/suqbk29

Basically, a circular calibration process. A calibrates his instrument
against an instrument owned by B, who unbeknown to A, calibrates his
instrument against A's.

Interesting that googling for the phrase as quoted "zanzibar effect"
does not produce any matches. Lots of matches for the country of that
name, but nothing else. Even googling for "zanzibar time" or "zanzibar
effect time" doesn't produce any matches.

I can understand the problem of circular calibration, but I'd never have
been able to discover or even guess what it was from the phrase,
assuming I hadn't already heard of it.

https://metrology.wordpress.com/stat...-traceability/

On 22/08/2020 18:05, Jim GM4 DHJ ... wrote:
On 22/08/2020 17:45, NY wrote:
"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 22 Aug 2020 14:58:08 +0100, "NY" wrote:

"Jim GM4DHJ ..." wrote in message
...
who has got caught out by the Zanzibar effect when calibrating
things..me
for one

What is the Zanzibar effect? I can't find anything on Google so it's
evidently not a widely-known term.

Zanzibar time : https://tinyurl.com/suqbk29

Basically, a circular calibration process. A calibrates his instrument
against an instrument owned by B, who unbeknown to A, calibrates his
instrument against A's.

Interesting that googling for the phrase as quoted "zanzibar effect"
does not produce any matches. Lots of matches for the country of that
name, but nothing else. Even googling for "zanzibar time" or "zanzibar
effect time" doesn't produce any matches.

I can understand the problem of circular calibration, but I'd never
have been able to discover or even guess what it was from the phrase,
assuming I hadn't already heard of it.

https://metrology.wordpress.com/stat...-traceability/

more to it than that but can't find the better story at the moment....

On 22/08/2020 17:45, NY wrote:
"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 22 Aug 2020 14:58:08 +0100, "NY" wrote:

What is the Zanzibar effect? I can't find anything on Google so it's
evidently not a widely-known term.

Zanzibar time : https://tinyurl.com/suqbk29

Basically, a circular calibration process. A calibrates his instrument
against an instrument owned by B, who unbeknown to A, calibrates his
instrument against A's.

Interesting that googling for the phrase as quoted "zanzibar effect"
does not produce any matches. Lots of matches for the country of that
name, but nothing else. Even googling for "zanzibar time" or "zanzibar
effect time" doesn't produce any matches.

I can understand the problem of circular calibration, but I'd never have
been able to discover or even guess what it was from the phrase,
assuming I hadn't already heard of it.

"Zanzibar effect" (with the quotes) gives (me) this as the first result:
https://metrology.wordpress.com/stat...-traceability/

"The famous story of the retired sea-captain on the island who takes his
time from the watchmaker in town only to find out that the watchmaker
uses the sea-captains cannon shots at 12 noon each day to set his own
clocks! [Attributed to Harrison (MIT) by Petley.]"

Without the quotes it's a bit further down the list. But I agree it's
not easy to find.

--
Max Demian

"Jim GM4 DHJ ..." wrote in message
...
On 22/08/2020 17:45, NY wrote:
"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 22 Aug 2020 14:58:08 +0100, "NY" wrote:

"Jim GM4DHJ ..." wrote in message
...
who has got caught out by the Zanzibar effect when calibrating
things..me
for one

What is the Zanzibar effect? I can't find anything on Google so it's
evidently not a widely-known term.

Zanzibar time : https://tinyurl.com/suqbk29

Basically, a circular calibration process. A calibrates his instrument
against an instrument owned by B, who unbeknown to A, calibrates his
instrument against A's.

Interesting that googling for the phrase as quoted "zanzibar effect" does
not produce any matches. Lots of matches for the country of that name,
but nothing else. Even googling for "zanzibar time" or "zanzibar effect
time" doesn't produce any matches.

I can understand the problem of circular calibration, but I'd never have
been able to discover or even guess what it was from the phrase, assuming
I hadn't already heard of it.

https://metrology.wordpress.com/stat...-traceability/

Yes, there are references out there. It's strange that none of them (as far
as I can find) seem to be findable by Google. Was there anyone else who's
read this thread who had never heard of it and yet was able to find out what
it meant? Am I just crap at being able to "drive" Google?

"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...
I can understand the problem of circular calibration, but I'd never have
been able to discover or even guess what it was from the phrase, assuming
I
hadn't already heard of it.

I've been familiar with the phrase for many decades. At some time in
the past I wanted to be able to link to it on occasions such as this,
so did a Google search but don't now remember the search terms. I
saved the link in my 'favourites' list.

Despite doing physics to A level and then elec eng at university, I've never
heard of it before today, either by name or as a story, though I've heard
many times of circular calibration.

The sea captain and watchmaker could also be an example of a systematic
error getting gradually worse. If the watchmaker is accurate and the sea
captain takes a couple of seconds to adjust his clock in sync, that error
(plus a similar error on the watchmaker's part when he syncs to the
captain's time) will affect the watchmaker's new time - and so on
repeatedly.

On 22/08/2020 18:45, NY wrote:
"Jim GM4 DHJ ..." wrote in message
...
On 22/08/2020 17:45, NY wrote:
"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 22 Aug 2020 14:58:08 +0100, "NY" wrote:

"Jim GM4DHJ ..." wrote in message
...
who has got caught out by the Zanzibar effect when calibrating
things..me
for one

What is the Zanzibar effect? I can't find anything on Google so it's
evidently not a widely-known term.

Zanzibar time : https://tinyurl.com/suqbk29

Basically, a circular calibration process. A calibrates his instrument
against an instrument owned by B, who unbeknown to A, calibrates his
instrument against A's.

Interesting that googling for the phrase as quoted "zanzibar effect"
does not produce any matches. Lots of matches for the country of that
name, but nothing else. Even googling for "zanzibar time" or
"zanzibar effect time" doesn't produce any matches.

I can understand the problem of circular calibration, but I'd never
have been able to discover or even guess what it was from the phrase,
assuming I hadn't already heard of it.

https://metrology.wordpress.com/stat...-traceability/


Yes, there are references out there. It's strange that none of them (as
far as I can find) seem to be findable by Google. Was there anyone else
who's read this thread who had never heard of it and yet was able to
find out what it meant? Am I just crap at being able to "drive" Google?
don't ask me...

On 22/08/2020 18:34, Max Demian wrote:
On 22/08/2020 17:45, NY wrote:
"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 22 Aug 2020 14:58:08 +0100, "NY" wrote:

What is the Zanzibar effect? I can't find anything on Google so it's
evidently not a widely-known term.

Zanzibar time : https://tinyurl.com/suqbk29

Basically, a circular calibration process. A calibrates his instrument
against an instrument owned by B, who unbeknown to A, calibrates his
instrument against A's.

Interesting that googling for the phrase as quoted "zanzibar effect"
does not produce any matches. Lots of matches for the country of that
name, but nothing else. Even googling for "zanzibar time" or "zanzibar
effect time" doesn't produce any matches.

I can understand the problem of circular calibration, but I'd never
have been able to discover or even guess what it was from the phrase,
assuming I hadn't already heard of it.

"Zanzibar effect" (with the quotes) gives (me) this as the first result:
https://metrology.wordpress.com/stat...-traceability/


"The famous story of the retired sea-captain on the island who takes his
time from the watchmaker in town only to find out that the watchmaker
uses the sea-captains cannon shots at 12 noon each day to set his own
clocks! [Attributed to Harrison (MIT) by Petley.]"

Without the quotes it's a bit further down the list. But I agree it's
not easy to find.

that is not the full story ...

On 22/08/2020 20:04, NY wrote:
"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...
I can understand the problem of circular calibration, but I'd never have
been able to discover or even guess what it was from the phrase,
assuming I
hadn't already heard of it.

I've been familiar with the phrase for many decades. At some time in
the past I wanted to be able to link to it on occasions such as this,
so did a Google search but don't now remember the search terms. I
saved the link in my 'favourites' list.

Despite doing physics to A level and then elec eng at university, I've
never heard of it before today, either by name or as a story, though
I've heard many times of circular calibration.

The sea captain and watchmaker could also be an example of a systematic
error getting gradually worse. If the watchmaker is accurate and the sea
captain takes a couple of seconds to adjust his clock in sync, that
error (plus a similar error on the watchmaker's part when he syncs to
the captain's time) will affect the watchmaker's new time - and so on
repeatedly.
somebody else was involved as well...a third party

On 22/08/2020 18:34, Max Demian wrote:
On 22/08/2020 17:45, NY wrote:
"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 22 Aug 2020 14:58:08 +0100, "NY" wrote:

What is the Zanzibar effect? I can't find anything on Google so it's
evidently not a widely-known term.

Zanzibar time : https://tinyurl.com/suqbk29

Basically, a circular calibration process. A calibrates his instrument
against an instrument owned by B, who unbeknown to A, calibrates his
instrument against A's.

Interesting that googling for the phrase as quoted "zanzibar effect"
does not produce any matches. Lots of matches for the country of that
name, but nothing else. Even googling for "zanzibar time" or "zanzibar
effect time" doesn't produce any matches.

I can understand the problem of circular calibration, but I'd never
have been able to discover or even guess what it was from the phrase,
assuming I hadn't already heard of it.

"Zanzibar effect" (with the quotes) gives (me) this as the first result:
https://metrology.wordpress.com/stat...-traceability/


"The famous story of the retired sea-captain on the island who takes his
time from the watchmaker in town only to find out that the watchmaker
uses the sea-captains cannon shots at 12 noon each day to set his own
clocks! [Attributed to Harrison (MIT) by Petley.]"

Without the quotes it's a bit further down the list. But I agree it's
not easy to find.

that is not even the watchmaker involved ...that shop is on some Spanish
island ....

On 22/08/2020 20:46, Jim GM4 DHJ ... wrote:
On 22/08/2020 20:04, NY wrote:
"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...
I can understand the problem of circular calibration, but I'd never
have
been able to discover or even guess what it was from the phrase,
assuming I
hadn't already heard of it.

I've been familiar with the phrase for many decades. At some time in
the past I wanted to be able to link to it on occasions such as this,
so did a Google search but don't now remember the search terms. I
saved the link in my 'favourites' list.

Despite doing physics to A level and then elec eng at university, I've
never heard of it before today, either by name or as a story, though
I've heard many times of circular calibration.

The sea captain and watchmaker could also be an example of a
systematic error getting gradually worse. If the watchmaker is
accurate and the sea captain takes a couple of seconds to adjust his
clock in sync, that error (plus a similar error on the watchmaker's
part when he syncs to the captain's time) will affect the watchmaker's
new time - and so on repeatedly.
somebody else was involved as well...a third party
some sort of weather station I think ....who spilled the beans

On Sat, 22 Aug 2020 17:45:15 +0100, NY wrote:

I can understand the problem of circular calibration, but I'd never have
been able to discover or even guess what it was from the phrase,
assuming I hadn't already heard of it.

Nor me. At first, I assumed it was to do with overpopulation (some may
recognose the reference).



--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On Sat, 22 Aug 2020 18:34:24 +0100, Max Demian wrote:

"Zanzibar effect" (with the quotes) gives (me) this as the first result:
https://metrology.wordpress.com/stat.../basic-theory-
of-measurement-and-error/trueness-%E2%80%93-calibration-and-traceability/

"The famous story of the retired sea-captain on the island who takes his
time from the watchmaker in town only to find out that the watchmaker
uses the sea-captains cannon shots at 12 noon each day to set his own
clocks! [Attributed to Harrison (MIT) by Petley.]"

Rather nice that the story involves someone called Harrison.



--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 22/08/2020 22:00, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Sat, 22 Aug 2020 20:53:08 +0100, "Jim GM4 DHJ ..."
wrote:

On 22/08/2020 20:46, Jim GM4 DHJ ... wrote:
On 22/08/2020 20:04, NY wrote:
"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...
I can understand the problem of circular calibration, but I'd never
have
been able to discover or even guess what it was from the phrase,
assuming I
hadn't already heard of it.

I've been familiar with the phrase for many decades. At some time in
the past I wanted to be able to link to it on occasions such as this,
so did a Google search but don't now remember the search terms. I
saved the link in my 'favourites' list.

Despite doing physics to A level and then elec eng at university, I've
never heard of it before today, either by name or as a story, though
I've heard many times of circular calibration.

The sea captain and watchmaker could also be an example of a
systematic error getting gradually worse. If the watchmaker is
accurate and the sea captain takes a couple of seconds to adjust his
clock in sync, that error (plus a similar error on the watchmaker's
part when he syncs to the captain's time) will affect the watchmaker's
new time - and so on repeatedly.
somebody else was involved as well...a third party
some sort of weather station I think ....who spilled the beans

Are you thinking of this version https://tinyurl.com/y6459kdn
(Reference 11, bottom of second column)? There are probably several
variants of the story.

That's the baby...thanks......

On 23/08/2020 05:57, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
On 22/08/2020 22:00, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Sat, 22 Aug 2020 20:53:08 +0100, "Jim GM4 DHJ ..."
wrote:

On 22/08/2020 20:46, Jim GM4 DHJ ... wrote:
On 22/08/2020 20:04, NY wrote:
"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...
I can understand the problem of circular calibration, but I'd never
have
been able to discover or even guess what it was from the phrase,
assuming I
hadn't already heard of it.

I've been familiar with the phrase for many decades. At some time in
the past I wanted to be able to link to it on occasions such as this,
so did a Google search but don't now remember the search terms. I
saved the link in my 'favourites' list.

Despite doing physics to A level and then elec eng at university, I've
never heard of it before today, either by name or as a story, though
I've heard many times of circular calibration.

The sea captain and watchmaker could also be an example of a
systematic error getting gradually worse. If the watchmaker is
accurate and the sea captain takes a couple of seconds to adjust his
clock in sync, that error (plus a similar error on the watchmaker's
part when he syncs to the captain's time) will affect the watchmaker's
new time - and so on repeatedly.
somebody else was involved as well...a third party
some sort of weather station I think ....who spilled the beans

Are you thinking of this version https://tinyurl.com/y6459kdn
(Reference 11, bottom of second column)? There are probably several
variants of the story.

That's the baby...thanks......
Think that is the true version....well the true made up version

On 22/08/2020 12:49, alan_m wrote:
On 22/08/2020 12:35, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:


very true I never have the last digit on on my ham rigso on for that
reason and the fact that I calibrated them myself...tee hee....near
enough is good enough for me.....

You have NOT calibrated them yourself unless you have a calibrated
source as a comparison.

just used radio 4 on 198 Kc/s Icom rigs drift off frequency because they
use cheap variable resistors....

On 22/08/2020 20:48, Jim GM4 DHJ ... wrote:
On 22/08/2020 18:34, Max Demian wrote:
On 22/08/2020 17:45, NY wrote:
"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 22 Aug 2020 14:58:08 +0100, "NY" wrote:

What is the Zanzibar effect? I can't find anything on Google so it's
evidently not a widely-known term.

Zanzibar time : https://tinyurl.com/suqbk29

Basically, a circular calibration process. A calibrates his instrument
against an instrument owned by B, who unbeknown to A, calibrates his
instrument against A's.

Interesting that googling for the phrase as quoted "zanzibar effect"
does not produce any matches. Lots of matches for the country of that
name, but nothing else. Even googling for "zanzibar time" or
"zanzibar effect time" doesn't produce any matches.

I can understand the problem of circular calibration, but I'd never
have been able to discover or even guess what it was from the phrase,
assuming I hadn't already heard of it.

"Zanzibar effect" (with the quotes) gives (me) this as the first result:
https://metrology.wordpress.com/stat...-traceability/


"The famous story of the retired sea-captain on the island who takes
his time from the watchmaker in town only to find out that the
watchmaker uses the sea-captains cannon shots at 12 noon each day to
set his own clocks! [Attributed to Harrison (MIT) by Petley.]"

Without the quotes it's a bit further down the list. But I agree it's
not easy to find.

that is not even the watchmaker involved ...that shop is on some Spanish
island ....

sorry Sevilla.....

https://www.google.com/maps/place/El...2!4d-5.9947404

On 22/08/2020 20:04, NY wrote:

Despite doing physics to A level and then elec eng at university, I've
never heard of it before today, either by name or as a story, though
I've heard many times of circular calibration.

Ditto.
Another term I heard at university applied to the problem of machines
measuring strain versus stress being in error by bending themselves,
was 'a soft machine' whether this was a well known term or a joke by the
lecturer relative to the jazz band...I do not know.

--
€œProgress is precisely that which rules and regulations did not foresee,€�

€“ Ludwig von Mises

On 22/08/2020 22:30, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sat, 22 Aug 2020 17:45:15 +0100, NY wrote:

I can understand the problem of circular calibration, but I'd never have
been able to discover or even guess what it was from the phrase,
assuming I hadn't already heard of it.

Nor me. At first, I assumed it was to do with overpopulation (some may
recognose the reference).



Oh yes. Stand on Zanzibar, or Soylent Green...


--
Karl Marx said religion is the opium of the people.
But Marxism is the crack cocaine.

On 22/08/2020 18:45, NY wrote:
"Jim GM4 DHJ ..." wrote in message
...
On 22/08/2020 17:45, NY wrote:
"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 22 Aug 2020 14:58:08 +0100, "NY" wrote:

"Jim GM4DHJ ..." wrote in message
...
who has got caught out by the Zanzibar effect when calibrating
things..me
for one

What is the Zanzibar effect? I can't find anything on Google so it's
evidently not a widely-known term.

Zanzibar time : https://tinyurl.com/suqbk29

Basically, a circular calibration process. A calibrates his instrument
against an instrument owned by B, who unbeknown to A, calibrates his
instrument against A's.

Interesting that googling for the phrase as quoted "zanzibar effect"
does not produce any matches. Lots of matches for the country of that
name, but nothing else. Even googling for "zanzibar time" or
"zanzibar effect time" doesn't produce any matches.

I can understand the problem of circular calibration, but I'd never
have been able to discover or even guess what it was from the phrase,
assuming I hadn't already heard of it.

https://metrology.wordpress.com/stat...-traceability/


Yes, there are references out there. It's strange that none of them (as
far as I can find) seem to be findable by Google. Was there anyone else
who's read this thread who had never heard of it and yet was able to
find out what it meant? Am I just crap at being able to "drive" Google?

I had to Google it, but used the term 'zanzibar effect calibration' with
no quotes. Perhaps your driving skills do need honing

On 22/08/2020 18:45, NY wrote:
"Jim GM4 DHJ ..." wrote in message
...
On 22/08/2020 17:45, NY wrote:
"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 22 Aug 2020 14:58:08 +0100, "NY" wrote:

"Jim GM4DHJ ..." wrote in message
...
who has got caught out by the Zanzibar effect when calibrating
things..me
for one

What is the Zanzibar effect? I can't find anything on Google so it's
evidently not a widely-known term.

Zanzibar time : https://tinyurl.com/suqbk29

Basically, a circular calibration process. A calibrates his instrument
against an instrument owned by B, who unbeknown to A, calibrates his
instrument against A's.

Interesting that googling for the phrase as quoted "zanzibar effect"
does not produce any matches. Lots of matches for the country of that
name, but nothing else. Even googling for "zanzibar time" or
"zanzibar effect time" doesn't produce any matches.

I can understand the problem of circular calibration, but I'd never
have been able to discover or even guess what it was from the phrase,
assuming I hadn't already heard of it.

https://metrology.wordpress.com/stat...-traceability/


Yes, there are references out there. It's strange that none of them (as
far as I can find) seem to be findable by Google. Was there anyone else
who's read this thread who had never heard of it and yet was able to
find out what it meant? Am I just crap at being able to "drive" Google?

When I search for "Zanzibar effect", the sea captain reference is the
third item on the list, after the revolution on the island and the
Wiki entry.

On 23/08/2020 09:29, Richard wrote:
On 22/08/2020 18:45, NY wrote:
"Jim GM4 DHJ ..." wrote in message
...
On 22/08/2020 17:45, NY wrote:
"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 22 Aug 2020 14:58:08 +0100, "NY" wrote:

"Jim GM4DHJ ..." wrote in message
...
who has got caught out by the Zanzibar effect when calibrating
things..me
for one

What is the Zanzibar effect? I can't find anything on Google so it's
evidently not a widely-known term.

Zanzibar time : https://tinyurl.com/suqbk29

Basically, a circular calibration process. A calibrates his instrument
against an instrument owned by B, who unbeknown to A, calibrates his
instrument against A's.

Interesting that googling for the phrase as quoted "zanzibar effect"
does not produce any matches. Lots of matches for the country of
that name, but nothing else. Even googling for "zanzibar time" or
"zanzibar effect time" doesn't produce any matches.

I can understand the problem of circular calibration, but I'd never
have been able to discover or even guess what it was from the
phrase, assuming I hadn't already heard of it.

https://metrology.wordpress.com/stat...-traceability/


Yes, there are references out there. It's strange that none of them
(as far as I can find) seem to be findable by Google. Was there anyone
else who's read this thread who had never heard of it and yet was able
to find out what it meant? Am I just crap at being able to "drive"
Google?

I had to Google it, but used the term 'zanzibar effect calibration' with
no quotes. Perhaps your driving skills do need honing

OK for me, but perhaps the fact that people are now searching is an
example of the Zanzibar effect !!

On 22/08/2020 18:34, Max Demian wrote:
On 22/08/2020 17:45, NY wrote:
"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 22 Aug 2020 14:58:08 +0100, "NY" wrote:

What is the Zanzibar effect? I can't find anything on Google so it's
evidently not a widely-known term.

Zanzibar time : https://tinyurl.com/suqbk29

Basically, a circular calibration process. A calibrates his instrument
against an instrument owned by B, who unbeknown to A, calibrates his
instrument against A's.

Interesting that googling for the phrase as quoted "zanzibar effect"
does not produce any matches. Lots of matches for the country of that
name, but nothing else. Even googling for "zanzibar time" or "zanzibar
effect time" doesn't produce any matches.

I can understand the problem of circular calibration, but I'd never
have been able to discover or even guess what it was from the phrase,
assuming I hadn't already heard of it.

"Zanzibar effect" (with the quotes) gives (me) this as the first result:
https://metrology.wordpress.com/stat...-traceability/


"The famous story of the retired sea-captain on the island who takes his
time from the watchmaker in town only to find out that the watchmaker
uses the sea-captains cannon shots at 12 noon each day to set his own
clocks! [Attributed to Harrison (MIT) by Petley.]"

Without the quotes it's a bit further down the list. But I agree it's
not easy to find.


Schrodingers cat effect ?

On Sun, 23 Aug 2020 06:39:09 +0100, "Jim GM4DHJ ..."
wrote:

snip

just used radio 4 on 198 Kc/s Icom rigs drift off frequency because they
use cheap variable resistors....

So, Crazy Jim, you don't use Hertz because he was a foreigner yet you
use a French unit symbol for temperature (Kelvin) instead of the unit
k (to represent kilo / thousand) when you could have just put three
zeros on yer number, using a capital K when it should be a lower but
can't put a capital at the beginning of a sentence.

Or maybe Kc/s are a measure of frequency drift with temperature you
invented?

Cheers, T i m

On 23/08/2020 09:52, Andrew wrote:
On 23/08/2020 09:29, Richard wrote:
On 22/08/2020 18:45, NY wrote:
"Jim GM4 DHJ ..." wrote in message
...
On 22/08/2020 17:45, NY wrote:
"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 22 Aug 2020 14:58:08 +0100, "NY" wrote:

"Jim GM4DHJ ..." wrote in message
...
who has got caught out by the Zanzibar effect when calibrating
things..me
for one

What is the Zanzibar effect? I can't find anything on Google so it's
evidently not a widely-known term.

Zanzibar time : https://tinyurl.com/suqbk29

Basically, a circular calibration process. A calibrates his
instrument
against an instrument owned by B, who unbeknown to A, calibrates his
instrument against A's.

Interesting that googling for the phrase as quoted "zanzibar
effect" does not produce any matches. Lots of matches for the
country of that name, but nothing else. Even googling for "zanzibar
time" or "zanzibar effect time" doesn't produce any matches.

I can understand the problem of circular calibration, but I'd never
have been able to discover or even guess what it was from the
phrase, assuming I hadn't already heard of it.

https://metrology.wordpress.com/stat...-traceability/


Yes, there are references out there. It's strange that none of them
(as far as I can find) seem to be findable by Google. Was there
anyone else who's read this thread who had never heard of it and yet
was able to find out what it meant? Am I just crap at being able to
"drive" Google?

I had to Google it, but used the term 'zanzibar effect calibration'
with no quotes. Perhaps your driving skills do need honing

OK for me, but perhaps the fact that people are now searching is an
example of the Zanzibar effect !!

I used the term on day one of the OP and it's unlikely that there are
enough followers of this thread to influence the engine.

https://trends.google.com/trends/exp...zibar%20effect

On 23/08/2020 11:02, Richard wrote:
On 23/08/2020 09:52, Andrew wrote:
On 23/08/2020 09:29, Richard wrote:
On 22/08/2020 18:45, NY wrote:
"Jim GM4 DHJ ..." wrote in message
...
On 22/08/2020 17:45, NY wrote:
"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 22 Aug 2020 14:58:08 +0100, "NY" wrote:

"Jim GM4DHJ ..." wrote in message
...
who has got caught out by the Zanzibar effect when calibrating
things..me
for one

What is the Zanzibar effect? I can't find anything on Google so
it's
evidently not a widely-known term.

Zanzibar time : https://tinyurl.com/suqbk29

Basically, a circular calibration process. A calibrates his
instrument
against an instrument owned by B, who unbeknown to A, calibrates his
instrument against A's.

Interesting that googling for the phrase as quoted "zanzibar
effect" does not produce any matches. Lots of matches for the
country of that name, but nothing else. Even googling for
"zanzibar time" or "zanzibar effect time" doesn't produce any
matches.

I can understand the problem of circular calibration, but I'd
never have been able to discover or even guess what it was from
the phrase, assuming I hadn't already heard of it.

https://metrology.wordpress.com/stat...-traceability/


Yes, there are references out there. It's strange that none of them
(as far as I can find) seem to be findable by Google. Was there
anyone else who's read this thread who had never heard of it and yet
was able to find out what it meant? Am I just crap at being able to
"drive" Google?

I had to Google it, but used the term 'zanzibar effect calibration'
with no quotes. Perhaps your driving skills do need honing

OK for me, but perhaps the fact that people are now searching is an
example of the Zanzibar effect !!

I used the term on day one of the OP and it's unlikely that there are
enough followers of this thread to influence the engine.

https://trends.google.com/trends/exp...zibar%20effect
nice to be able to edumacate peoples ....