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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Is this cobbled together rising main acceptable?
Here in this block of flats, the plastic rising main pipework passes
vertically through the airing cupboard of each flat to the flat above. Since the introduction of water meters each flat has individual pipework, modified from the original. The modification is shoddy and prone to leakage, with significant property damage to individual flats ensuing. The last plumber who came to fix a leak in the pipework running through my flat said the problem would recur because between the 2 joints in the original black pipework is a section of blue plastic pipe that is of a different diameter. The flexing of the pipework over time causes these joints to leak. The plumber described the blue pipework as being agricultural stuff. The management company of the flats has a brief to keep the service charges low, which causes them to drag their feet when it comes to repairs, then when damage occurs as a result, the management company attempts to pass the cost on to individual flat owners rather than taking the money out of the service charge kitty. Despite numerous phone calls, emails and signed for letters the office will not acknowledge the problem in writing or explain why they will not fix it. So my next step will have to be a solicitors letter. Any thoughts on this problem? -- Mike |
#2
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Is this cobbled together rising main acceptable?
On 18/08/2020 13:06, Mike Halmarack wrote:
The last plumber who came to fix a leak in the pipework running through my flat said the problem would recur because between the 2 joints in the original black pipework is a section of blue plastic pipe that is of a different diameter. The flexing of the pipework over time causes these joints to leak. The plumber described the blue pipework as being agricultural stuff. That sounds like a bodge. The blue stuff is the correct pipework for connecting a property to the mains supply, but normally just a short length comes into the kitchen, from underground where it connects to the house main stop cock. Your plumber should be aware of the move from black plastic to blue plastic pipework for water supply, because it occurred a long time ago. The black stuff was commonly used in the 1970's but does split with age under certain conditions. Inside a block of flats, I'm rather surprised that there weren't 22 mm copper risers to each flat from ground level. Were they built this way originally, or was the black plastic piping a retrofit ?. |
#3
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Is this cobbled together rising main acceptable?
On 18/08/2020 13:06, Mike Halmarack wrote:
Here in this block of flats, the plastic rising main pipework passes vertically through the airing cupboard of each flat to the flat above. Since the introduction of water meters each flat has individual pipework, modified from the original. The modification is shoddy and prone to leakage, with significant property damage to individual flats ensuing. The last plumber who came to fix a leak in the pipework running through my flat said the problem would recur because between the 2 joints in the original black pipework is a section of blue plastic pipe that is of a different diameter. The flexing of the pipework over time causes these joints to leak. The plumber described the blue pipework as being agricultural stuff. The management company of the flats has a brief to keep the service charges low, which causes them to drag their feet when it comes to repairs, then when damage occurs as a result, the management company attempts to pass the cost on to individual flat owners rather than taking the money out of the service charge kitty. Despite numerous phone calls, emails and signed for letters the office will not acknowledge the problem in writing or explain why they will not fix it. So my next step will have to be a solicitors letter. Any thoughts on this problem? Can you post a photo showing what it looks like? Is there now a meter in each flat, or are all the meters in a single location with individual supplies to each flat? -- Cheers, Roger |
#4
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Is this cobbled together rising main acceptable?
On Tue, 18 Aug 2020 13:26:52 +0100, Chris Hogg wrote:
Any thoughts on this problem? Only to ask whether solicitors' letters carry any weight these days. Many decades ago, the recipient was supposed to collapse into a quivering heap of jelly and capitulate, but I'm not sure that happens any more. Don't they just get binned? I don't know what usually happens to them, as I've never sent one to date. There may just be the continuation of a lack of response as a result of the letter. But if it's worded right it will officially document that lack of response, the unwillingness to acknowledge the problem, and it will ask for an explanation as to why no remedial action has been taken. Then when I come home after being away for six months and I find the place water damaged, I may have a better chance of financial redress. |
#5
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Is this cobbled together rising main acceptable?
On Tue, 18 Aug 2020 13:31:50 +0100, Andrew
wrote: Your plumber should be aware of the move from black plastic to blue plastic pipework for water supply, because it occurred a long time ago. The black stuff was commonly used in the 1970's but does split with age under certain conditions. Inside a block of flats, I'm rather surprised that there weren't 22 mm copper risers to each flat from ground level. Were they built this way originally, or was the black plastic piping a retrofit ?. Thanks for the helpful explanation. I don't know what was there originally. I just know that so many compression joints coupled with stretches of dissimilar pipework has so far been a recipe for expensive damage and shows every sign of continuing to be so. -- Mike |
#6
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Is this cobbled together rising main acceptable?
On Tue, 18 Aug 2020 13:53:58 +0100, Roger Mills
wrote: Can you post a photo showing what it looks like? Thanks I'll try to get a decent photo of the situation. Is there now a meter in each flat, or are all the meters in a single location with individual supplies to each flat? I Imagine that the original single plastic pipe branched off at every flat on the way up. Since the meters, which are all on the lawn outside were introduced this branching has been replaced by straight patches of dissimilar pipe. -- Mike |
#7
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Is this cobbled together rising main acceptable?
On 18 Aug 2020 13:07:21 GMT, Tim Streater
wrote: On 18 Aug 2020 at 13:26:52 BST, Chris Hogg wrote: On Tue, 18 Aug 2020 13:06:06 +0100, Mike Halmarack wrote: Here in this block of flats, the plastic rising main pipework passes vertically through the airing cupboard of each flat to the flat above. Since the introduction of water meters each flat has individual pipework, modified from the original. The modification is shoddy and prone to leakage, with significant property damage to individual flats ensuing. The last plumber who came to fix a leak in the pipework running through my flat said the problem would recur because between the 2 joints in the original black pipework is a section of blue plastic pipe that is of a different diameter. The flexing of the pipework over time causes these joints to leak. The plumber described the blue pipework as being agricultural stuff. The management company of the flats has a brief to keep the service charges low, which causes them to drag their feet when it comes to repairs, then when damage occurs as a result, the management company attempts to pass the cost on to individual flat owners rather than taking the money out of the service charge kitty. Despite numerous phone calls, emails and signed for letters the office will not acknowledge the problem in writing or explain why they will not fix it. So my next step will have to be a solicitors letter. Any thoughts on this problem? Only to ask whether solicitors' letters carry any weight these days. Many decades ago, the recipient was supposed to collapse into a quivering heap of jelly and capitulate, but I'm not sure that happens any more. Don't they just get binned? Is there a tenants committee? If not perhaps there should be. Wer'e a bunch of oldies with long leases and joint freehold. The management company was engaged with the brief to keep services charges low, which they are. Getting folks here to do anything much more than getting into and out of (if lucky) ambulances is a task. -- Mike |
#8
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Is this cobbled together rising main acceptable?
On Tue, 18 Aug 2020 13:53:58 +0100, Roger Mills
wrote: Can you post a photo showing what it looks like? https://i.postimg.cc/LssWL0T3/rising-main.jpg -- Mike |
#9
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Is this cobbled together rising main acceptable?
On Tuesday, 18 August 2020 14:20:20 UTC+1, Mike Halmarack wrote:
On 18 Aug 2020 13:07:21 GMT, Tim Streater wrote: On 18 Aug 2020 at 13:26:52 BST, Chris Hogg wrote: On Tue, 18 Aug 2020 13:06:06 +0100, Mike Halmarack wrote: Here in this block of flats, the plastic rising main pipework passes vertically through the airing cupboard of each flat to the flat above.. Since the introduction of water meters each flat has individual pipework, modified from the original. The modification is shoddy and prone to leakage, with significant property damage to individual flats ensuing. The last plumber who came to fix a leak in the pipework running through my flat said the problem would recur because between the 2 joints in the original black pipework is a section of blue plastic pipe that is of a different diameter. The flexing of the pipework over time causes these joints to leak. The plumber described the blue pipework as being agricultural stuff. The management company of the flats has a brief to keep the service charges low, which causes them to drag their feet when it comes to repairs, then when damage occurs as a result, the management company attempts to pass the cost on to individual flat owners rather than taking the money out of the service charge kitty. Despite numerous phone calls, emails and signed for letters the office will not acknowledge the problem in writing or explain why they will not fix it. So my next step will have to be a solicitors letter. Any thoughts on this problem? Only to ask whether solicitors' letters carry any weight these days. Many decades ago, the recipient was supposed to collapse into a quivering heap of jelly and capitulate, but I'm not sure that happens any more. Don't they just get binned? Is there a tenants committee? If not perhaps there should be. Wer'e a bunch of oldies with long leases and joint freehold. The management company was engaged with the brief to keep services charges low, which they are. Getting folks here to do anything much more than getting into and out of (if lucky) ambulances is a task. I suspect your lack of evidence for need for work may be the prime issue. A written letter resulting from a survey commissioned on the plumbing in question might be more convincing. It probably would be worth including a cost assessement of doing nothing versus acting too. NT |
#10
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Is this cobbled together rising main acceptable?
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#11
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Is this cobbled together rising main acceptable?
On Tuesday, 18 August 2020 15:33:45 UTC+1, Mike Halmarack wrote:
On Tue, 18 Aug 2020 07:16:33 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote: On Tuesday, 18 August 2020 14:20:20 UTC+1, Mike Halmarack wrote: On 18 Aug 2020 13:07:21 GMT, Tim Streater wrote: On 18 Aug 2020 at 13:26:52 BST, Chris Hogg wrote: On Tue, 18 Aug 2020 13:06:06 +0100, Mike Halmarack wrote: I suspect your lack of evidence for need for work may be the prime issue.. A written letter resulting from a survey commissioned on the plumbing in question might be more convincing. It probably would be worth including a cost assessement of doing nothing versus acting too. NT If regular fixes after property damage in the block is not evidence of need for work, then I thank you for the advice and will look into doing just that. People are often wilfully stupid/blind when asked to pay. A suitably qualified plumber's survey could end their opportunity to do that & expect to get away with it. NT |
#12
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Is this cobbled together rising main acceptable?
On 18/08/2020 14:15, Mike Halmarack wrote:
On Tue, 18 Aug 2020 13:53:58 +0100, Roger Mills wrote: Can you post a photo showing what it looks like? Thanks I'll try to get a decent photo of the situation. Is there now a meter in each flat, or are all the meters in a single location with individual supplies to each flat? I Imagine that the original single plastic pipe branched off at every flat on the way up. Since the meters, which are all on the lawn outside were introduced this branching has been replaced by straight patches of dissimilar pipe. Then where does this orphaned pipe actually go ?. If your meter is outside then a separate supply must have been installed to each flat, with all the disruption that this would have entailed. I suspect the pipe with patches supplies the top flat, while all the floors below have a their own dedicated supply from their own meter. If so, it is the responsibility of the person on the top floor to have it replaced with a continuous run of new pipe. |
#13
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Is this cobbled together rising main acceptable?
On 18/08/2020 14:39, Mike Halmarack wrote:
On Tue, 18 Aug 2020 13:53:58 +0100, Roger Mills wrote: Can you post a photo showing what it looks like? https://i.postimg.cc/LssWL0T3/rising-main.jpg But does this pipe supply water to your flat ?. Do you have a photo of the pipe that connects to your stopcock inside your flat ?. |
#14
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Is this cobbled together rising main acceptable?
On 18/08/2020 14:39, Mike Halmarack wrote:
On Tue, 18 Aug 2020 13:53:58 +0100, Roger Mills wrote: Can you post a photo showing what it looks like? https://i.postimg.cc/LssWL0T3/rising-main.jpg If the whole vertical run of this pipe is not mechanically supported then the compression joints will be constantly trying to pull themelves apart, which is not good. |
#15
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Is this cobbled together rising main acceptable?
On Tue, 18 Aug 2020 16:14:30 +0100, Andrew
wrote: On 18/08/2020 14:15, Mike Halmarack wrote: On Tue, 18 Aug 2020 13:53:58 +0100, Roger Mills wrote: Can you post a photo showing what it looks like? Thanks I'll try to get a decent photo of the situation. Is there now a meter in each flat, or are all the meters in a single location with individual supplies to each flat? I Imagine that the original single plastic pipe branched off at every flat on the way up. Since the meters, which are all on the lawn outside were introduced this branching has been replaced by straight patches of dissimilar pipe. Then where does this orphaned pipe actually go ?. If your meter is outside then a separate supply must have been installed to each flat, with all the disruption that this would have entailed. I suspect the pipe with patches supplies the top flat, while all the floors below have a their own dedicated supply from their own meter. If so, it is the responsibility of the person on the top floor to have it replaced with a continuous run of new pipe. I see what you mean. As I understand it the management company is responsible for the services, the maintenance of which is payable from the service charges to the whole community. It seems this charge is kept low by the management company failing to maintain the services, then when damage occurs laying the cost on indivdual flat owners. This is comfortable for the general population and painful for the individual. -- Mike |
#16
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Is this cobbled together rising main acceptable?
On 18/08/2020 16:33, Mike Halmarack wrote:
On Tue, 18 Aug 2020 16:14:30 +0100, Andrew wrote: On 18/08/2020 14:15, Mike Halmarack wrote: On Tue, 18 Aug 2020 13:53:58 +0100, Roger Mills wrote: Can you post a photo showing what it looks like? Thanks I'll try to get a decent photo of the situation. Is there now a meter in each flat, or are all the meters in a single location with individual supplies to each flat? I Imagine that the original single plastic pipe branched off at every flat on the way up. Since the meters, which are all on the lawn outside were introduced this branching has been replaced by straight patches of dissimilar pipe. Then where does this orphaned pipe actually go ?. If your meter is outside then a separate supply must have been installed to each flat, with all the disruption that this would have entailed. I suspect the pipe with patches supplies the top flat, while all the floors below have a their own dedicated supply from their own meter. If so, it is the responsibility of the person on the top floor to have it replaced with a continuous run of new pipe. I see what you mean. As I understand it the management company is responsible for the services, the maintenance of which is payable from the service charges to the whole community. It seems this charge is kept low by the management company failing to maintain the services, then when damage occurs laying the cost on indivdual flat owners. This is comfortable for the general population and painful for the individual. You didn't answer the question though. Which flat is connected to this patchwork pipe ?. why wasn't a new run of blue plastic pulled through to replace it ?. Sounds like penny pinching to me. These are the questions you need to find answers to. |
#17
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Is this cobbled together rising main acceptable?
On Tue, 18 Aug 2020 16:16:31 +0100, Andrew
wrote: On 18/08/2020 14:39, Mike Halmarack wrote: On Tue, 18 Aug 2020 13:53:58 +0100, Roger Mills wrote: Can you post a photo showing what it looks like? https://i.postimg.cc/LssWL0T3/rising-main.jpg But does this pipe supply water to your flat ?. Do you have a photo of the pipe that connects to your stopcock inside your flat ?. https://i.postimg.cc/Kzk4KS8M/mystopcock.jpg -- Mike |
#18
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Is this cobbled together rising main acceptable?
On Tue, 18 Aug 2020 16:41:00 +0100, Andrew
wrote: On 18/08/2020 16:33, Mike Halmarack wrote: On Tue, 18 Aug 2020 16:14:30 +0100, Andrew wrote: On 18/08/2020 14:15, Mike Halmarack wrote: On Tue, 18 Aug 2020 13:53:58 +0100, Roger Mills wrote: Can you post a photo showing what it looks like? Thanks I'll try to get a decent photo of the situation. Is there now a meter in each flat, or are all the meters in a single location with individual supplies to each flat? I Imagine that the original single plastic pipe branched off at every flat on the way up. Since the meters, which are all on the lawn outside were introduced this branching has been replaced by straight patches of dissimilar pipe. Then where does this orphaned pipe actually go ?. If your meter is outside then a separate supply must have been installed to each flat, with all the disruption that this would have entailed. I suspect the pipe with patches supplies the top flat, while all the floors below have a their own dedicated supply from their own meter. If so, it is the responsibility of the person on the top floor to have it replaced with a continuous run of new pipe. I see what you mean. As I understand it the management company is responsible for the services, the maintenance of which is payable from the service charges to the whole community. It seems this charge is kept low by the management company failing to maintain the services, then when damage occurs laying the cost on indivdual flat owners. This is comfortable for the general population and painful for the individual. You didn't answer the question though. Which flat is connected to this patchwork pipe ?. why wasn't a new run of blue plastic pulled through to replace it ?. Sounds like penny pinching to me. These are the questions you need to find answers to. Apologies the patched pipework does supply the top floor flat. But the management company is responsible for the services and if they fixed it properly the recurring problems would end. It would be a tricky business for an individual flat owner to be responsible for services running through other peoples flats. That's my understanding of why the management company exists, to take such responsibility. -- Mike |
#19
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Is this cobbled together rising main acceptable?
On 18/08/2020 16:42, Mike Halmarack wrote:
On Tue, 18 Aug 2020 16:16:31 +0100, Andrew wrote: On 18/08/2020 14:39, Mike Halmarack wrote: On Tue, 18 Aug 2020 13:53:58 +0100, Roger Mills wrote: Can you post a photo showing what it looks like? https://i.postimg.cc/LssWL0T3/rising-main.jpg But does this pipe supply water to your flat ?. Do you have a photo of the pipe that connects to your stopcock inside your flat ?. https://i.postimg.cc/Kzk4KS8M/mystopcock.jpg So there is a copper feed to your flat. Do the vertical copper pipe going up and the Tee connection that goes back into your floor supply only your flat ?. If the meter is outside then I assume yes. |
#21
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Is this cobbled together rising main acceptable?
On 18/08/2020 16:54, Mike Halmarack wrote:
On Tue, 18 Aug 2020 16:41:00 +0100, Andrew wrote: On 18/08/2020 16:33, Mike Halmarack wrote: On Tue, 18 Aug 2020 16:14:30 +0100, Andrew wrote: On 18/08/2020 14:15, Mike Halmarack wrote: On Tue, 18 Aug 2020 13:53:58 +0100, Roger Mills wrote: Can you post a photo showing what it looks like? Thanks I'll try to get a decent photo of the situation. Is there now a meter in each flat, or are all the meters in a single location with individual supplies to each flat? I Imagine that the original single plastic pipe branched off at every flat on the way up. Since the meters, which are all on the lawn outside were introduced this branching has been replaced by straight patches of dissimilar pipe. Then where does this orphaned pipe actually go ?. If your meter is outside then a separate supply must have been installed to each flat, with all the disruption that this would have entailed. I suspect the pipe with patches supplies the top flat, while all the floors below have a their own dedicated supply from their own meter. If so, it is the responsibility of the person on the top floor to have it replaced with a continuous run of new pipe. I see what you mean. As I understand it the management company is responsible for the services, the maintenance of which is payable from the service charges to the whole community. It seems this charge is kept low by the management company failing to maintain the services, then when damage occurs laying the cost on indivdual flat owners. This is comfortable for the general population and painful for the individual. You didn't answer the question though. Which flat is connected to this patchwork pipe ?. why wasn't a new run of blue plastic pulled through to replace it ?. Sounds like penny pinching to me. These are the questions you need to find answers to. Apologies the patched pipework does supply the top floor flat. But the management company is responsible for the services and if they fixed it properly the recurring problems would end. It would be a tricky business for an individual flat owner to be responsible for services running through other peoples flats. That's my understanding of why the management company exists, to take such responsibility. the fact that any pipe goes through a number of floors (how many?) raises the question of fire stopping. A kitchen fire on the ground floor could travel up this void and affect other people. How come only one patchwork pipe travels through your flat ?. how many floors are there and how do the other floors get their cold water supply ?. isn't the 'management' company just you and all the other flat owners ?. |
#22
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Is this cobbled together rising main acceptable?
On 18/08/2020 16:33, Mike Halmarack wrote:
On Tue, 18 Aug 2020 16:14:30 +0100, Andrew wrote: On 18/08/2020 14:15, Mike Halmarack wrote: On Tue, 18 Aug 2020 13:53:58 +0100, Roger Mills wrote: Can you post a photo showing what it looks like? Thanks I'll try to get a decent photo of the situation. Is there now a meter in each flat, or are all the meters in a single location with individual supplies to each flat? I Imagine that the original single plastic pipe branched off at every flat on the way up. Since the meters, which are all on the lawn outside were introduced this branching has been replaced by straight patches of dissimilar pipe. Then where does this orphaned pipe actually go ?. If your meter is outside then a separate supply must have been installed to each flat, with all the disruption that this would have entailed. I suspect the pipe with patches supplies the top flat, while all the floors below have a their own dedicated supply from their own meter. If so, it is the responsibility of the person on the top floor to have it replaced with a continuous run of new pipe. I see what you mean. As I understand it the management company is responsible for the services, the maintenance of which is payable from the service charges to the whole community. It seems this charge is kept low by the management company failing to maintain the services, then when damage occurs laying the cost on indivdual flat owners. This is comfortable for the general population and painful for the individual. Who is the "Landlord"? Is it the Management Company - or the entity that owns the freehold - of which you are probably a shareholder if it's jointly owned? You presumably have a Lease? That should define exactly what each flat owner ("tenant") and what the Landlord is responsible for. I have a holiday flat which works in that way. The Landlord is a limited company jointly owned by all the tenants. We don't employ an external management company - we whack up the jobs amongst us - I look after the finances and another flat owner looks after the maintenance. Provided you're nor all gaga, it's the best way to do it. -- Cheers, Roger |
#23
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Is this cobbled together rising main acceptable?
On Tue, 18 Aug 2020 17:01:58 +0100, Andrew
wrote: On 18/08/2020 16:54, Mike Halmarack wrote: On Tue, 18 Aug 2020 16:41:00 +0100, Andrew wrote: On 18/08/2020 16:33, Mike Halmarack wrote: On Tue, 18 Aug 2020 16:14:30 +0100, Andrew wrote: On 18/08/2020 14:15, Mike Halmarack wrote: On Tue, 18 Aug 2020 13:53:58 +0100, Roger Mills wrote: Can you post a photo showing what it looks like? Thanks I'll try to get a decent photo of the situation. Is there now a meter in each flat, or are all the meters in a single location with individual supplies to each flat? I Imagine that the original single plastic pipe branched off at every flat on the way up. Since the meters, which are all on the lawn outside were introduced this branching has been replaced by straight patches of dissimilar pipe. Then where does this orphaned pipe actually go ?. If your meter is outside then a separate supply must have been installed to each flat, with all the disruption that this would have entailed. I suspect the pipe with patches supplies the top flat, while all the floors below have a their own dedicated supply from their own meter. If so, it is the responsibility of the person on the top floor to have it replaced with a continuous run of new pipe. I see what you mean. As I understand it the management company is responsible for the services, the maintenance of which is payable from the service charges to the whole community. It seems this charge is kept low by the management company failing to maintain the services, then when damage occurs laying the cost on indivdual flat owners. This is comfortable for the general population and painful for the individual. You didn't answer the question though. Which flat is connected to this patchwork pipe ?. why wasn't a new run of blue plastic pulled through to replace it ?. Sounds like penny pinching to me. These are the questions you need to find answers to. Apologies the patched pipework does supply the top floor flat. But the management company is responsible for the services and if they fixed it properly the recurring problems would end. It would be a tricky business for an individual flat owner to be responsible for services running through other peoples flats. That's my understanding of why the management company exists, to take such responsibility. the fact that any pipe goes through a number of floors (how many?) raises the question of fire stopping. A kitchen fire on the ground floor could travel up this void and affect other people. 3 floors. I'm sure you're right that it could be a fire hazard. How come only one patchwork pipe travels through your flat ?. how many floors are there and how do the other floors get their cold water supply ?. I'm in the middle between the ground floor and the top floor. So, it's one motley run of plastic pipework through my flat to the top floor flat. isn't the 'management' company just you and all the other flat owners ?. The management company is employed by all the flat owners to do management company stuff. So there's a diverse range of responsibilities, one being that the management company is responsible for the services. -- Mike |
#24
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Is this cobbled together rising main acceptable?
On Tue, 18 Aug 2020 17:09:14 +0100, Roger Mills
wrote: On 18/08/2020 16:33, Mike Halmarack wrote: On Tue, 18 Aug 2020 16:14:30 +0100, Andrew wrote: On 18/08/2020 14:15, Mike Halmarack wrote: On Tue, 18 Aug 2020 13:53:58 +0100, Roger Mills wrote: Can you post a photo showing what it looks like? Thanks I'll try to get a decent photo of the situation. Is there now a meter in each flat, or are all the meters in a single location with individual supplies to each flat? I Imagine that the original single plastic pipe branched off at every flat on the way up. Since the meters, which are all on the lawn outside were introduced this branching has been replaced by straight patches of dissimilar pipe. Then where does this orphaned pipe actually go ?. If your meter is outside then a separate supply must have been installed to each flat, with all the disruption that this would have entailed. I suspect the pipe with patches supplies the top flat, while all the floors below have a their own dedicated supply from their own meter. If so, it is the responsibility of the person on the top floor to have it replaced with a continuous run of new pipe. I see what you mean. As I understand it the management company is responsible for the services, the maintenance of which is payable from the service charges to the whole community. It seems this charge is kept low by the management company failing to maintain the services, then when damage occurs laying the cost on indivdual flat owners. This is comfortable for the general population and painful for the individual. Who is the "Landlord"? Is it the Management Company - or the entity that owns the freehold - of which you are probably a shareholder if it's jointly owned? Flat owners share the freehold. You presumably have a Lease? That should define exactly what each flat owner ("tenant") and what the Landlord is responsible for. Yes, the "Landlord" is responsible for the services. I have a holiday flat which works in that way. The Landlord is a limited company jointly owned by all the tenants. We don't employ an external management company - we whack up the jobs amongst us - I look after the finances and another flat owner looks after the maintenance. Provided you're nor all gaga, it's the best way to do it. Yes, there have been various methods employed in the past. The current management company have only been active here for two years. This is after freelance activity engendered much psychological bloodshed, I'm told. As far as the gaga level is concerned I can only speak for myself by saying that I'm well on the way. |
#25
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Is this cobbled together rising main acceptable?
On Tue, 18 Aug 2020 16:57:02 +0100, Andrew
wrote: On 18/08/2020 16:42, Mike Halmarack wrote: On Tue, 18 Aug 2020 16:16:31 +0100, Andrew wrote: On 18/08/2020 14:39, Mike Halmarack wrote: On Tue, 18 Aug 2020 13:53:58 +0100, Roger Mills wrote: Can you post a photo showing what it looks like? https://i.postimg.cc/LssWL0T3/rising-main.jpg But does this pipe supply water to your flat ?. Do you have a photo of the pipe that connects to your stopcock inside your flat ?. https://i.postimg.cc/Kzk4KS8M/mystopcock.jpg So there is a copper feed to your flat. Do the vertical copper pipe going up and the Tee connection that goes back into your floor supply only your flat ?. If the meter is outside then I assume yes. The copperwork starts as it comes through my floor and the whole of my supply is then in copper. Not quite sure what happens beneath but at leasst some of it is recently leaking plastic. |
#26
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Is this cobbled together rising main acceptable?
On Tue, 18 Aug 2020 16:59:26 +0100, "Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)"
wrote: Is there a residents association who could meet and discuss the issue then approach the owners with a proposal. In this case I guess the owners a are never going to win unless there is an agreement with the people in the flats. Brian There will be an Annual General Meeting some short while after Coronavirus recedes. As I understand the process from historical records there will be a pillory and some gentle witch burning. -- Mike |
#27
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Is this cobbled together rising main acceptable?
Blue alkathene pipe costs peanuts. I'd suggest one rough and ready solution would be to replace the cobbled together runs with one length right through from meter to the flat served then use supporting clips about every metre or so. Maybe ideally it would be better to have used copper pipe for fire and rodent resistance but that would require multiple joints. I'd also make use of fire stopping foam where the pipes pass through floors.
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#28
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Is this cobbled together rising main acceptable?
Andrew Wrote in message:
On 18/08/2020 16:54, Mike Halmarack wrote: On Tue, 18 Aug 2020 16:41:00 +0100, Andrew wrote: On 18/08/2020 16:33, Mike Halmarack wrote: On Tue, 18 Aug 2020 16:14:30 +0100, Andrew wrote: On 18/08/2020 14:15, Mike Halmarack wrote: On Tue, 18 Aug 2020 13:53:58 +0100, Roger Mills wrote: Can you post a photo showing what it looks like? Thanks I'll try to get a decent photo of the situation. Is there now a meter in each flat, or are all the meters in a single location with individual supplies to each flat? I Imagine that the original single plastic pipe branched off at every flat on the way up. Since the meters, which are all on the lawn outside were introduced this branching has been replaced by straight patches of dissimilar pipe. Then where does this orphaned pipe actually go ?. If your meter is outside then a separate supply must have been installed to each flat, with all the disruption that this would have entailed. I suspect the pipe with patches supplies the top flat, while all the floors below have a their own dedicated supply from their own meter. If so, it is the responsibility of the person on the top floor to have it replaced with a continuous run of new pipe. I see what you mean. As I understand it the management company is responsible for the services, the maintenance of which is payable from the service charges to the whole community. It seems this charge is kept low by the management company failing to maintain the services, then when damage occurs laying the cost on indivdual flat owners. This is comfortable for the general population and painful for the individual. You didn't answer the question though. Which flat is connected to this patchwork pipe ?. why wasn't a new run of blue plastic pulled through to replace it ?. Sounds like penny pinching to me. These are the questions you need to find answers to. Apologies the patched pipework does supply the top floor flat. But the management company is responsible for the services and if they fixed it properly the recurring problems would end. It would be a tricky business for an individual flat owner to be responsible for services running through other peoples flats. That's my understanding of why the management company exists, to take such responsibility. the fact that any pipe goes through a number of floors (how many?) raises the question of fire stopping. A kitchen fire on the ground floor could travel up this void and affect other people. Shurely said fire would melt the pipes & self extinguish hopefully? -- Jimk ----Android NewsGroup Reader---- http://usenet.sinaapp.com/ |
#29
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Is this cobbled together rising main acceptable?
Andrew Wrote in message:
On 18/08/2020 14:39, Mike Halmarack wrote: On Tue, 18 Aug 2020 13:53:58 +0100, Roger Mills wrote: Can you post a photo showing what it looks like? https://i.postimg.cc/LssWL0T3/rising-main.jpg If the whole vertical run of this pipe is not mechanically supported then the compression joints will be constantly trying to pull themelves apart, which is not good. This is three floors? How do compression joints "pull themselves apart" exactly? -- Jimk ----Android NewsGroup Reader---- http://usenet.sinaapp.com/ |
#30
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Is this cobbled together rising main acceptable?
On Tue, 18 Aug 2020 18:42:32 +0100 (GMT+01:00), Jimk
wrote: Andrew Wrote in message: On 18/08/2020 14:39, Mike Halmarack wrote: On Tue, 18 Aug 2020 13:53:58 +0100, Roger Mills wrote: Can you post a photo showing what it looks like? https://i.postimg.cc/LssWL0T3/rising-main.jpg If the whole vertical run of this pipe is not mechanically supported then the compression joints will be constantly trying to pull themelves apart, which is not good. This is three floors? How do compression joints "pull themselves apart" exactly? The last plumber who came around said that as the pipes flexed during changes in pressure and on and off use, the joints worked loose. This is made worse by bits of disimmilar pipe being connected together. Also that the pipework is just hanging there, instead of being held firmly in place by various possible means. -- Mike |
#31
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Is this cobbled together rising main acceptable?
On Tue, 18 Aug 2020 11:37:28 -0700 (PDT), Cynic
wrote: Blue alkathene pipe costs peanuts. I'd suggest one rough and ready solution would be to replace the cobbled together runs with one length right through from meter to the flat served then use supporting clips about every metre or so. Maybe ideally it would be better to have used copper pipe for fire and rodent resistance but that would require multiple joints. I'd also make use of fire stopping foam where the pipes pass through floors. That seems like a very acceptable solution, thanks. -- Mike |
#32
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Is this cobbled together rising main acceptable?
On 19/08/2020 09:26, Mike Halmarack wrote:
The last plumber who came around said that as the pipes flexed during changes in pressure and on and off use, the joints worked loose. This is made worse by bits of disimmilar pipe being connected together. Also that the pipework is just hanging there, instead of being held firmly in place by various possible means. That reminds me of a conversation I had during a job I did in a 13 story hotel in Durban, South Africa... ...The building manager said that the sewage from all floors fed a common single massive plugged together riser...but unfortunately it had no expansion joints, and in the hot Durban sun, the building expanded several inches whilst the riser, in the air conditioned interior spaces, did not...sewage spills were routine -- €œBut what a weak barrier is truth when it stands in the way of an hypothesis!€ Mary Wollstonecraft |
#33
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Is this cobbled together rising main acceptable?
On Wed, 19 Aug 2020 10:12:33 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote: On 19/08/2020 09:26, Mike Halmarack wrote: The last plumber who came around said that as the pipes flexed during changes in pressure and on and off use, the joints worked loose. This is made worse by bits of disimmilar pipe being connected together. Also that the pipework is just hanging there, instead of being held firmly in place by various possible means. That reminds me of a conversation I had during a job I did in a 13 story hotel in Durban, South Africa... ..The building manager said that the sewage from all floors fed a common single massive plugged together riser...but unfortunately it had no expansion joints, and in the hot Durban sun, the building expanded several inches whilst the riser, in the air conditioned interior spaces, did not...sewage spills were routine ****! That would be the final straw. -- Mike |
#34
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Is this cobbled together rising main acceptable?
On Wed, 19 Aug 2020 09:26:38 +0100, Mike Halmarack wrote:
Can you post a photo showing what it looks like? https://i.postimg.cc/LssWL0T3/rising-main.jpg Look closely the upper (black pipe) compression joint still has a turn or so to go before the flanges meet. Presumably these ones are tight and don't fail. The lower (blue pipe) looks to be as tight as it can go as the flanges are together, this probably means that the pipe isn't fully held and these joints fail. It might be possible to find the correct sized sealing/gripping insert/olive for that fitting and pipe size. Simply replacing those so the joint can be tightend before the flanges meet may well cure the problem. If the whole vertical run of this pipe is not mechanically supported then the compression joints will be constantly trying to pull themelves apart, which is not good. This is three floors? How do compression joints "pull themselves apart" exactly? The last plumber who came around said that as the pipes flexed during changes in pressure and on and off use, the joints worked loose. This is made worse by bits of disimmilar pipe being connected together. Different sized pipes shouldn't be a problem provided the fitting is correctly sized for the pipe. Also that the pipework is just hanging there, instead of being held firmly in place by various possible means. Even providing support for the weight of the pipe work may reduce the frequency of failure. The joints may not be perfect but until the pull out or get close to pulling out don't leak? -- Cheers Dave. |
#35
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Is this cobbled together rising main acceptable?
On Wed, 19 Aug 2020 13:03:56 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote: On Wed, 19 Aug 2020 09:26:38 +0100, Mike Halmarack wrote: Can you post a photo showing what it looks like? https://i.postimg.cc/LssWL0T3/rising-main.jpg Look closely the upper (black pipe) compression joint still has a turn or so to go before the flanges meet. Presumably these ones are tight and don't fail. The lower (blue pipe) looks to be as tight as it can go as the flanges are together, this probably means that the pipe isn't fully held and these joints fail. It might be possible to find the correct sized sealing/gripping insert/olive for that fitting and pipe size. Simply replacing those so the joint can be tightend before the flanges meet may well cure the problem. If the whole vertical run of this pipe is not mechanically supported then the compression joints will be constantly trying to pull themelves apart, which is not good. This is three floors? How do compression joints "pull themselves apart" exactly? The last plumber who came around said that as the pipes flexed during changes in pressure and on and off use, the joints worked loose. This is made worse by bits of disimmilar pipe being connected together. Different sized pipes shouldn't be a problem provided the fitting is correctly sized for the pipe. Also that the pipework is just hanging there, instead of being held firmly in place by various possible means. Even providing support for the weight of the pipe work may reduce the frequency of failure. The joints may not be perfect but until the pull out or get close to pulling out don't leak? Every little helps on the road to good enough. -- Mike |
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