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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
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FTTP installation
Following a thread on uk.telecom this might be of use to people here
contemplating FTTP as well. https://vps.templar.co.uk/index.php?...20installation -- Its easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. Mark Twain |
#2
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FTTP installation
On Wednesday, 5 August 2020 13:53:11 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Following a thread on uk.telecom this might be of use to people here contemplating FTTP as well. https://vps.templar.co.uk/index.php?...20installation Firefox refuses, and Chrome dislikes, your page because of security NET::ERR_CERT_AUTHORITY_INVALID Subject: mx.xen19.node00001.gigatux.com Issuer: mx.xen19.node00001.gigatux.com Expires on: 11 Nov 2021 Current date: 5 Aug 2020 Owain |
#4
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FTTP installation
On 05/08/2020 13:53, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Following a thread on uk.telecom this might be of use to people here contemplating FTTP* as well. https://vps.templar.co.uk/index.php?...20installation What is in the external box? Looks like they have "cost reduced" the install and done away with the battery backup for the PON terminal. (they used to include the termination and the battery backup both installed in a larger wall mount box: http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...nitWithPSU.png (the box on the right has 4 AAs in it). Interesting they actually made use of the copper pair in the drop wire... On mine they just wound it up near the termination and saved it for some future time if required (there are already 2 x pots drop wires into the house). They did moan that the very thin teflon insulated wire was very difficult to strip and use! -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#5
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FTTP installation
On Wed, 5 Aug 2020 14:14:36 +0100, John Rumm wrote:
Looks like they have "cost reduced" the install and done away with the battery backup for the PON terminal. (they used to include the termination and the battery backup both installed in a larger wall mount box: Think that went out the window a year or more ago. Not sure why. Maybe that as "everyone has a mobile" these days the expectation is for that to work under local power fail conditions. That might be a reasonable assumption in built areas where there is reliable blanket coverage and a mobile can see many cell sites and the chances being not all of them will be affected by the power outage. Doesn't work quite so well in rural areas with patchy coverage and a single cell serving many square miles. Or peoples expectations have changed, power goes, normal life comes to a crashing halt. -- Cheers Dave. |
#6
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FTTP installation
On Wed, 5 Aug 2020 13:53:09 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote: Following a thread on uk.telecom this might be of use to people here contemplating FTTP as well. https://vps.templar.co.uk/index.php?...20installation This produces a warning message here - attackers may be trying to steal your details. |
#7
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FTTP installation
On Wed, 5 Aug 2020 14:14:36 +0100, John Rumm
wrote: On 05/08/2020 13:53, The Natural Philosopher wrote: Following a thread on uk.telecom this might be of use to people here contemplating FTTP* as well. https://vps.templar.co.uk/index.php?...20installation What is in the external box? Looks like they have "cost reduced" the install and done away with the battery backup for the PON terminal. (they used to include the termination and the battery backup both installed in a larger wall mount box: http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...nitWithPSU.png (the box on the right has 4 AAs in it). Interesting they actually made use of the copper pair in the drop wire... On mine they just wound it up near the termination and saved it for some future time if required (there are already 2 x pots drop wires into the house). They did moan that the very thin teflon insulated wire was very difficult to strip and use! I have seen this on the other thread. If you are over 65, can you just register as 'vulnerable' and tell them you need a reliable system that works 24/7? |
#8
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FTTP installation
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
https://vps.templar.co.uk/index.php?...20installation Use http://vps.templar.co.uk/index.php?album=FTTP%20installation instead as the server doesn't speak new encryption |
#9
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FTTP installation
John Rumm wrote:
On 05/08/2020 13:53, The Natural Philosopher wrote: Following a thread on uk.telecom this might be of use to people here contemplating FTTP* as well. https://vps.templar.co.uk/index.php?...20installation That's Openreach FTTP btw, other networks vary. What is in the external box? On ours it was just a joint between the dropwire and the pigtail that goes through the wall. I assume the pigtail comes pre-terminated in an SC/APC connector so they don't have to put one on the dropwire. Looks like they have "cost reduced" the install and done away with the battery backup for the PON terminal. (they used to include the termination and the battery backup both installed in a larger wall mount box: Since 2018. I think they decided the battery backup wasn't much use - it only had 4x 2000mAh NiMH cells in it (about 10Wh, or about the average battery in a mobile), so it wasn't a backup for very long. And you'll probably find the cells are dead when you come to need it in any case (ours were when we moved in, an OR engineer changed them). The handwave being assuming you have a mobile for emergencies - apparently they will fit a BBU 'on an exceptional basis' for those who depend on their landline for voice. If that were me I'd look at a UPS or a more substantial solution than what's effectively a £5 powerbank. Interesting they actually made use of the copper pair in the drop wire... On mine they just wound it up near the termination and saved it for some future time if required (there are already 2 x pots drop wires into the house). They did moan that the very thin teflon insulated wire was very difficult to strip and use! Ours had a pre-existing copper pair that was used for voice, with the fibre being separate. Theo |
#10
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FTTP installation
On Wed, 5 Aug 2020 15:15:04 +0100, Andy Burns
wrote: The Natural Philosopher wrote: https://vps.templar.co.uk/index.php?...20installation Use http://vps.templar.co.uk/index.php?album=FTTP%20installation instead as the server doesn't speak new encryption Would it not simply be possible to install an uninterruptible power supply to photo 6? |
#11
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FTTP installation
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Following a thread on uk.telecom this might be of use to people here contemplating FTTP* as well. https://vps.templar.co.uk/index.php?...20installation All the openreach installed bits (apart from their pole) look a bit scrappily done, considering how long they ought to be expecting it to stay in place ... |
#12
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FTTP installation
Scott wrote:
On Wed, 5 Aug 2020 15:15:04 +0100, Andy Burns wrote: The Natural Philosopher wrote: https://vps.templar.co.uk/index.php?...20installation Use http://vps.templar.co.uk/index.php?album=FTTP%20installation instead as the server doesn't speak new encryption Would it not simply be possible to install an uninterruptible power supply to photo 6? Even nicer would be if the ONT (or whatever they call it) could accept power over ethernet, instead of needing a wallwart, I know most people won't have a PoE switch yet, but even a remote power injector would look neater |
#13
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FTTP installation
On 05/08/2020 14:36, Scott wrote:
On Wed, 5 Aug 2020 14:14:36 +0100, John Rumm wrote: On 05/08/2020 13:53, The Natural Philosopher wrote: Following a thread on uk.telecom this might be of use to people here contemplating FTTP* as well. https://vps.templar.co.uk/index.php?...20installation What is in the external box? Looks like they have "cost reduced" the install and done away with the battery backup for the PON terminal. (they used to include the termination and the battery backup both installed in a larger wall mount box: http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...nitWithPSU.png (the box on the right has 4 AAs in it). Interesting they actually made use of the copper pair in the drop wire... On mine they just wound it up near the termination and saved it for some future time if required (there are already 2 x pots drop wires into the house). They did moan that the very thin teflon insulated wire was very difficult to strip and use! I have seen this on the other thread. If you are over 65, can you just register as 'vulnerable' and tell them you need a reliable system that works 24/7? For most existing users this will be for broadband provision only, so any existing phone lines will carry on working as they currently do. However they are moving toward disbanding the copper network, and FTTP will become the default install even if all you want is voice. That will then be provided by VoIP on a "slow" (500Kbps) FTTP service. It may be that for voice only users they will provide the battery backup. (they probably figure for data users, its a moot point since few of them will have a UPS to hold up all their other IT kit to actually benefit from the broadband staying up during a power cut) -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#14
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FTTP installation
On 05/08/2020 14:34, Scott wrote:
On Wed, 5 Aug 2020 13:53:09 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote: Following a thread on uk.telecom this might be of use to people here contemplating FTTP as well. https://vps.templar.co.uk/index.php?...20installation This produces a warning message here - attackers may be trying to steal your details. Its using an old standard for the transport layer security and some browsers will whinge. Change it to http:// and it will be ok. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#15
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FTTP installation
On 05/08/2020 15:22, Scott wrote:
On Wed, 5 Aug 2020 15:15:04 +0100, Andy Burns wrote: The Natural Philosopher wrote: https://vps.templar.co.uk/index.php?...20installation Use http://vps.templar.co.uk/index.php?album=FTTP%20installation instead as the server doesn't speak new encryption Would it not simply be possible to install an uninterruptible power supply to photo 6? Yup you can... In fact I took mine off my rack's UPS since it has its own backup batteries, and they will run longer than the rest of the rack. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#16
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FTTP installation
On Wednesday, 5 August 2020 14:31:03 UTC+1, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Wed, 5 Aug 2020 14:14:36 +0100, John Rumm wrote: Looks like they have "cost reduced" the install and done away with the battery backup for the PON terminal. (they used to include the termination and the battery backup both installed in a larger wall mount box: Think that went out the window a year or more ago. Not sure why. Maybe that as "everyone has a mobile" these days the expectation is for that to work under local power fail conditions. That might be a reasonable assumption in built areas where there is reliable blanket coverage and a mobile can see many cell sites and the chances being not all of them will be affected by the power outage. Doesn't work quite so well in rural areas with patchy coverage and a single cell serving many square miles. Or peoples expectations have changed, power goes, normal life comes to a crashing halt. The battery backup was not supplied when ours was installed at the start of December 2019 - looks as if it was done away with some months prior. Unlike many, our phone line remains on copper. The ONT's phone socket is dead. (When they installed FTTP, I plugged the phone into the ONT and nothing happened. It was all checked out at the time and someone had intentionally not switched our phone over to fibre.) This works to our advantage in that we might lose internet but the phone should be as reliable as any POTS phone. |
#17
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FTTP installation
On Wed, 5 Aug 2020 15:34:33 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:
Even nicer would be if the ONT (or whatever they call it) could accept power over ethernet, instead of needing a wallwart, +1 What does the ONT live on? You can get fixed voltage, 15 W output, PoE spliters at 5 or 12 V for about a tenner now. I've got a 5 V output one for powering a Pi III via PoE, this was going to have and SDR dongle attached and shoved some where out of the way. Trouble is the PoE splitter produces a lot of interference. Not yet chased that down to actual RF radiation and/or a horrible amount of noise on the supply. I use a TP-Link PoE adpater for the blitzortung receiver. That required an LC filter in the power lines to tame it. B-) I know most people won't have a PoE switch yet, but even a remote power injector would look neater And could be placed far more conviently and maybe on the UPS that keeps other kit up in the event of a power outage. -- Cheers Dave. |
#18
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FTTP installation
On Wednesday, 5 August 2020 15:47:07 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 05/08/2020 14:36, Scott wrote: On Wed, 5 Aug 2020 14:14:36 +0100, John Rumm wrote: On 05/08/2020 13:53, The Natural Philosopher wrote: Following a thread on uk.telecom this might be of use to people here contemplating FTTP* as well. https://vps.templar.co.uk/index.php?...20installation What is in the external box? Looks like they have "cost reduced" the install and done away with the battery backup for the PON terminal. (they used to include the termination and the battery backup both installed in a larger wall mount box: http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...nitWithPSU.png (the box on the right has 4 AAs in it). Interesting they actually made use of the copper pair in the drop wire... On mine they just wound it up near the termination and saved it for some future time if required (there are already 2 x pots drop wires into the house). They did moan that the very thin teflon insulated wire was very difficult to strip and use! I have seen this on the other thread. If you are over 65, can you just register as 'vulnerable' and tell them you need a reliable system that works 24/7? For most existing users this will be for broadband provision only, so any existing phone lines will carry on working as they currently do. However they are moving toward disbanding the copper network, and FTTP will become the default install even if all you want is voice. That will then be provided by VoIP on a "slow" (500Kbps) FTTP service. It may be that for voice only users they will provide the battery backup. (they probably figure for data users, its a moot point since few of them will have a UPS to hold up all their other IT kit to actually benefit from the broadband staying up during a power cut) Few will have a UPS, indeed. But many will have tablets, laptops, phones, etc., which have a UPS effectively built-in as they are battery devices. The problem often becomes having sufficient power for both the ONT and the local router (plus anything else like LAN extenders) rather than the end device. Keeping the ONT up while letting the router drop is very likely daft. |
#19
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FTTP installation
On 05/08/2020 13:59, wrote:
On Wednesday, 5 August 2020 13:53:11 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote: Following a thread on uk.telecom this might be of use to people here contemplating FTTP as well. https://vps.templar.co.uk/index.php?...20installation Firefox refuses, and Chrome dislikes, your page because of security NET::ERR_CERT_AUTHORITY_INVALID Subject: mx.xen19.node00001.gigatux.com Issuer: mx.xen19.node00001.gigatux.com Expires on: 11 Nov 2021 Current date: 5 Aug 2020 Owain take the 's' out of https then -- "Women actually are capable of being far more than the feminists will let them." |
#20
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FTTP installation
On 05/08/2020 15:24, Andy Burns wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote: Following a thread on uk.telecom this might be of use to people here contemplating FTTP* as well. https://vps.templar.co.uk/index.php?...20installation All the openreach installed bits (apart from their pole) look a bit scrappily done, considering how long they ought to be expecting it to stay in place ... oh it is all sound enough. I need to redecorate next winter anyway... -- It is hard to imagine a more stupid decision or more dangerous way of making decisions than by putting those decisions in the hands of people who pay no price for being wrong. Thomas Sowell |
#21
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FTTP installation
On 05/08/2020 15:34, Andy Burns wrote:
Scott wrote: On Wed, 5 Aug 2020 15:15:04 +0100, Andy Burns wrote: The Natural Philosopher wrote: https://vps.templar.co.uk/index.php?...20installation Use http://vps.templar.co.uk/index.php?album=FTTP%20installation instead as the server doesn't speak new encryption Would it not simply be possible to install an uninterruptible power supply to photo 6? Even nicer would be if the ONT (or whatever they call it) could accept power over ethernet, instead of needing a wallwart, I know most people won't have a PoE switch yet, but even a remote power injector would look neater Yes. totally agree -- It is hard to imagine a more stupid decision or more dangerous way of making decisions than by putting those decisions in the hands of people who pay no price for being wrong. Thomas Sowell |
#22
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FTTP installation
Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Wed, 5 Aug 2020 15:34:33 +0100, Andy Burns wrote: Even nicer would be if the ONT (or whatever they call it) could accept power over ethernet, instead of needing a wallwart, +1 What does the ONT live on? 12V. None of the OR ones (Huawei, Nokia) seem to support PoE, sadly. You can get fixed voltage, 15 W output, PoE spliters at 5 or 12 V for about a tenner now. I've got a 5 V output one for powering a Pi III via PoE, this was going to have and SDR dongle attached and shoved some where out of the way. Trouble is the PoE splitter produces a lot of interference. Not yet chased that down to actual RF radiation and/or a horrible amount of noise on the supply. That's not a bad idea. I'm sure you can get better splitters. A PoE UPS might be useful in terms of keeping router, switches and IP phones alive. I hope routers will get better at power management - for example, detect that the power has gone out and fall back to a less power intensive mode of operation to make the battery last longer, perhaps by dropping rates on wifi or ethernet and throttling CPU. Theo |
#23
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FTTP installation
John Rumm wrote:
Scott wrote: This produces a warning message here - attackers may be trying to steal your details. Its using an old standard for the transport layer security and some browsers will whinge. Note that chrome 84 and firefox 78 both disabled TLS1.0 and TLS1.1 last month, so unless servers support newer encryption, you'll get that message. |
#24
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FTTP installation
On 05/08/2020 18:04, Andy Burns wrote:
John Rumm wrote: Scott wrote: This produces a warning message here - attackers may be trying to steal your details. Its using an old standard for the transport layer security and some browsers will whinge. Note that chrome 84 and firefox 78 both disabled TLS1.0 and TLS1.1 last month, so unless servers support newer encryption, you'll get that message. that is an OLD server I am not sure I can be bothered to upgrade it. I may simply move the album to the newer one and leave that as mail only. -- Theres a mighty big difference between good, sound reasons and reasons that sound good. Burton Hillis (William Vaughn, American columnist) |
#25
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FTTP installation
On 05 Aug 2020 18:02:32 +0100 (BST), Theo
wrote: Dave Liquorice wrote: On Wed, 5 Aug 2020 15:34:33 +0100, Andy Burns wrote: Even nicer would be if the ONT (or whatever they call it) could accept power over ethernet, instead of needing a wallwart, +1 What does the ONT live on? 12V. None of the OR ones (Huawei, Nokia) seem to support PoE, sadly. Have you not stripped all Huawei kit out yet :-) |
#26
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FTTP installation
On 05/08/2020 17:11, polygonum_on_google wrote:
On Wednesday, 5 August 2020 15:47:07 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote: On 05/08/2020 14:36, Scott wrote: On Wed, 5 Aug 2020 14:14:36 +0100, John Rumm wrote: On 05/08/2020 13:53, The Natural Philosopher wrote: Following a thread on uk.telecom this might be of use to people here contemplating FTTP as well. https://vps.templar.co.uk/index.php?...20installation What is in the external box? Looks like they have "cost reduced" the install and done away with the battery backup for the PON terminal. (they used to include the termination and the battery backup both installed in a larger wall mount box: http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...nitWithPSU.png (the box on the right has 4 AAs in it). Interesting they actually made use of the copper pair in the drop wire... On mine they just wound it up near the termination and saved it for some future time if required (there are already 2 x pots drop wires into the house). They did moan that the very thin teflon insulated wire was very difficult to strip and use! I have seen this on the other thread. If you are over 65, can you just register as 'vulnerable' and tell them you need a reliable system that works 24/7? For most existing users this will be for broadband provision only, so any existing phone lines will carry on working as they currently do. However they are moving toward disbanding the copper network, and FTTP will become the default install even if all you want is voice. That will then be provided by VoIP on a "slow" (500Kbps) FTTP service. It may be that for voice only users they will provide the battery backup. (they probably figure for data users, its a moot point since few of them will have a UPS to hold up all their other IT kit to actually benefit from the broadband staying up during a power cut) Few will have a UPS, indeed. But many will have tablets, laptops, phones, etc., which have a UPS effectively built-in as they are battery devices. Does not help much when your router and wifi is not powered... The problem often becomes having sufficient power for both the ONT and the local router (plus anything else like LAN extenders) rather than the end device. Keeping the ONT up while letting the router drop is very likely daft. Indeed, PON terminal is not a router, just a PPPoE modem - you need a router etc in addition to it, and if you have the battery backup for the PON box it does not power the router, so you are back to a separate UPS. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#27
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FTTP installation
In article ,
John Rumm wrote: On 05/08/2020 17:11, polygonum_on_google wrote: On Wednesday, 5 August 2020 15:47:07 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote: On 05/08/2020 14:36, Scott wrote: On Wed, 5 Aug 2020 14:14:36 +0100, John Rumm wrote: On 05/08/2020 13:53, The Natural Philosopher wrote: Following a thread on uk.telecom this might be of use to people here contemplating FTTP as well. https://vps.templar.co.uk/index.php?...20installation What is in the external box? Looks like they have "cost reduced" the install and done away with the battery backup for the PON terminal. (they used to include the termination and the battery backup both installed in a larger wall mount box: http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...nitWithPSU.png (the box on the right has 4 AAs in it). Interesting they actually made use of the copper pair in the drop wire... On mine they just wound it up near the termination and saved it for some future time if required (there are already 2 x pots drop wires into the house). They did moan that the very thin teflon insulated wire was very difficult to strip and use! I have seen this on the other thread. If you are over 65, can you just register as 'vulnerable' and tell them you need a reliable system that works 24/7? For most existing users this will be for broadband provision only, so any existing phone lines will carry on working as they currently do. However they are moving toward disbanding the copper network, and FTTP will become the default install even if all you want is voice. That will then be provided by VoIP on a "slow" (500Kbps) FTTP service. It may be that for voice only users they will provide the battery backup. (they probably figure for data users, its a moot point since few of them will have a UPS to hold up all their other IT kit to actually benefit from the broadband staying up during a power cut) Few will have a UPS, indeed. But many will have tablets, laptops, phones, etc., which have a UPS effectively built-in as they are battery devices. Does not help much when your router and wifi is not powered... I have a small UPS which supplies my FTTC router and modem which gives me wifi. The problem often becomes having sufficient power for both the ONT and the local router (plus anything else like LAN extenders) rather than the end device. Keeping the ONT up while letting the router drop is very likely daft. Indeed, PON terminal is not a router, just a PPPoE modem - you need a router etc in addition to it, and if you have the battery backup for the PON box it does not power the router, so you are back to a separate UPS. -- from KT24 in Surrey, England "I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle |
#28
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FTTP installation
Here waterfox simply says insecure connection.
Brian -- ----- -- This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from... The Sofa of Brian Gaff... Blind user, so no pictures please Note this Signature is meaningless.! "The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message ... On 05/08/2020 13:59, wrote: On Wednesday, 5 August 2020 13:53:11 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote: Following a thread on uk.telecom this might be of use to people here contemplating FTTP as well. https://vps.templar.co.uk/index.php?...20installation Firefox refuses, and Chrome dislikes, your page because of security NET::ERR_CERT_AUTHORITY_INVALID Subject: mx.xen19.node00001.gigatux.com Issuer: mx.xen19.node00001.gigatux.com Expires on: 11 Nov 2021 Current date: 5 Aug 2020 Owain take the 's' out of https then -- "Women actually are capable of being far more than the feminists will let them." |
#29
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FTTP installation
Virgin have let me keep copper on the landline as I'm considered vulnerable
due to being blind and living on my own. Brian -- ----- -- This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from... The Sofa of Brian Gaff... Blind user, so no pictures please Note this Signature is meaningless.! "polygonum_on_google" wrote in message ... On Wednesday, 5 August 2020 14:31:03 UTC+1, Dave Liquorice wrote: On Wed, 5 Aug 2020 14:14:36 +0100, John Rumm wrote: Looks like they have "cost reduced" the install and done away with the battery backup for the PON terminal. (they used to include the termination and the battery backup both installed in a larger wall mount box: Think that went out the window a year or more ago. Not sure why. Maybe that as "everyone has a mobile" these days the expectation is for that to work under local power fail conditions. That might be a reasonable assumption in built areas where there is reliable blanket coverage and a mobile can see many cell sites and the chances being not all of them will be affected by the power outage. Doesn't work quite so well in rural areas with patchy coverage and a single cell serving many square miles. Or peoples expectations have changed, power goes, normal life comes to a crashing halt. The battery backup was not supplied when ours was installed at the start of December 2019 - looks as if it was done away with some months prior. Unlike many, our phone line remains on copper. The ONT's phone socket is dead. (When they installed FTTP, I plugged the phone into the ONT and nothing happened. It was all checked out at the time and someone had intentionally not switched our phone over to fibre.) This works to our advantage in that we might lose internet but the phone should be as reliable as any POTS phone. |
#30
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FTTP installation
On 05/08/2020 20:36, charles wrote:
In article , John Rumm wrote: On 05/08/2020 17:11, polygonum_on_google wrote: On Wednesday, 5 August 2020 15:47:07 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote: However they are moving toward disbanding the copper network, and FTTP will become the default install even if all you want is voice. That will then be provided by VoIP on a "slow" (500Kbps) FTTP service. It may be that for voice only users they will provide the battery backup. (they probably figure for data users, its a moot point since few of them will have a UPS to hold up all their other IT kit to actually benefit from the broadband staying up during a power cut) Few will have a UPS, indeed. But many will have tablets, laptops, phones, etc., which have a UPS effectively built-in as they are battery devices. Does not help much when your router and wifi is not powered... I have a small UPS which supplies my FTTC router and modem which gives me wifi. Well same here - but I suspect we are in a tiny minority. Also having a USP you can power the PON terminal as well - so it does not need its own battery. However for those without a UPS the PON terminal running on its own is pointless, so ergo, it does not need its own battery. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#31
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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UPS recommendations please (was: FTTP installation)
[N.B. Subject amended]
John Rumm wrote: On 05/08/2020 20:36, charles wrote: In article , John Rumm wrote: On 05/08/2020 17:11, polygonum_on_google wrote: [...] Few will have a UPS, indeed. But many will have tablets, laptops, phones, etc., which have a UPS effectively built-in as they are battery devices. Does not help much when your router and wifi is not powered... I have a small UPS which supplies my FTTC router and modem which gives me wifi. Well same here - but I suspect we are in a tiny minority. Also having a USP you can power the PON terminal as well - so it does not need its own battery. However for those without a UPS the PON terminal running on its own is pointless, so ergo, it does not need its own battery. May I please have recommendations for a domestic UPS to provide backup power to a FTTC modem, a router/WiFi AP and a small Synology NAS for two hours or more? In this case quality and reliabilty are more important than cost. I already have a basic line-powered landline phone so there's no need to provide for that. Also, my mobile phone can provide limited WiFi hotspot data service, so I'd like to be able to charge phones and iPads too. TIA -- ^^ https://youtu.be/_kqytf31a8E My pet rock Gordon just is. |
#32
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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UPS recommendations please
Sn!pe wrote:
[N.B. Subject amended] John Rumm wrote: On 05/08/2020 20:36, charles wrote: In article , John Rumm wrote: On 05/08/2020 17:11, polygonum_on_google wrote: [...] Few will have a UPS, indeed. But many will have tablets, laptops, phones, etc., which have a UPS effectively built-in as they are battery devices. Does not help much when your router and wifi is not powered... I have a small UPS which supplies my FTTC router and modem which gives me wifi. Well same here - but I suspect we are in a tiny minority. Also having a USP you can power the PON terminal as well - so it does not need its own battery. However for those without a UPS the PON terminal running on its own is pointless, so ergo, it does not need its own battery. May I please have recommendations for a domestic UPS to provide backup power to a FTTC modem, a router/WiFi AP and a small Synology NAS for two hours or more? In this case quality and reliabilty are more important than cost. Why keep the NAS going? There's nothing with power to use it is there? -- Chris Green · |
#33
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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UPS recommendations please
Chris Green wrote:
Sn!pe wrote: May I please have recommendations for a domestic UPS to provide backup power to a FTTC modem, a router/WiFi AP and a small Synology NAS for two hours or more? In this case quality and reliabilty are more important than cost. I use a big old APC smartups, it was free (plus I have a couple of spares) it eats a set of batteries every 5 years, and it adds a few quid to the leccy bill due to losses, but I wouldn't want to be without it. That probably doesn't amount to a recommendation that it's what everyone else should have though ... Why keep the NAS going? There's nothing with power to use it is there? laptops? |
#34
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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UPS recommendations please
Chris Green wrote:
Sn!pe wrote: [...] May I please have recommendations for a domestic UPS to provide backup power to a FTTC modem, a router/WiFi AP and a small Synology NAS for two hours or more? In this case quality and reliabilty are more important than cost. Why keep the NAS going? There's nothing with power to use it is there? That's true enough, but I'm old fashioned enough to fret about an ungraceful shutdown if mains power goes off. Perhaps I'm worrying needlessly, but running it on a UPS would mean it could be shut down gracefully. Thanks for the response, Chris. -- ^^ https://youtu.be/_kqytf31a8E My pet rock Gordon just is. |
#35
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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UPS recommendations please
May I please have recommendations for a domestic UPS to provide backup power to a FTTC modem, a router/WiFi AP and a small Synology NAS for two hours or more? In this case quality and reliabilty are more important than cost. I already have a basic line-powered landline phone so there's no need to provide for that. Also, my mobile phone can provide limited WiFi hotspot data service, so I'd like to be able to charge phones and iPads too. TIA My choice of UPS make would be APC. You do need to size the UPS correctly so what you do is add up all the total wattage of all the loads and then work out how many watt-hours need by multiplying by the desired run time. Then you add correction factors such as the UPS conversion efficiency and power factor plus a margin to allow for eventual battery degradation so you don't end up replacing the batteries sooner than expected if the run time falls below your two hours. Budget for replacing the batteries every 3 to 5 years. You could consider also purchasing a PoE network switch as you can get Poe To USB chargers for your ipads and iphones: see here for an example: https://fsrinc.com/fsr-products-list...hrg-p2u-series Most UPSes start beeping during a power cut. The whole point of a UPS is to allow you to shut down your attached IT gear without having catastrophic data loss. So a UPS typically gives you a grace time of say 5 to 15 minutes before it shuts down as if you discharge the batteries too far, the battery lifetime is shortened. If you are running your UPS for that length of time, The UPS's inverter and batteries will be getting warmer than would be typical which will certainly affect the lifetime and reliability of the UPS. So you will need to check the Specs that the UPS you want really can run for that long reliably. Will the beeping of up to 2 hours drive you up the wall? :-) Also many UPSes allow a direct conenction to either a USB equipped computer or sometimes an ethernet connection. The UPS driver software on the PC or server then has the ability to monitor the UPS and can gracefully shut itself down within minutes of a power cut starting before the UPS runs out of power. You can usually set a shutdown threshold of when the batteries reach a X% of total battery capacity. If this is not feasible at the location of teh UPS, you can use a raspberry Pi with some UPS software on it and then you can SSH or Putty or remote desktop into the Pi to check up on teh UPS state and reporting logs. Given that much of your hardware is on wall warts I wonder if a simple car battery and a trickle car battery charger with some LM317Ts or even some cigar lighter socket to Laptop PSUs set to the various voltages required might be a more cost effective and electrically simpler and more reliable option as then you do not have the conversion losses and all the extra circuitry due to: 230 V AC mains to DC battery charging within the UPS DC to AC inverter within the UPS Then 220V AC to DC conversion via the various wall warts to the IT kit vs Car battery trickle charger from 220 V AC to 12V DC Then a bank of LM317Ts set to the required DC voltages to the router, ONT, Wifi AP thereby bypassing the wall warts entirely This is one conversion efficiency loss only vs 3 sets of conversion efficiency losses. You can get Car Cigar socket USB based chargers which would then also power your iPads and iPhones. Another option to look at is a Honda Generator running on LPG gas bottles or on Natural gas. https://genconnexdirect.net/honda_pr...generators.htm You can even wire two Honda generators in parallel via a kit and have an automatic start device in case of a power loss. An ordinary UPS can then cover the transition betwene grid power and locally generated power. In my experience, a natural gas supply or a Propane tank seems more reliable than a nation grid supply..... HTH, S. |
#36
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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UPS recommendations please
On 06/08/2020 09:15, No Name wrote:
May I please have recommendations for a domestic UPS to provide backup power to a FTTC modem, a router/WiFi AP and a small Synology NAS for two hours or more?* In this case quality and reliabilty are more important than cost. I already have a basic line-powered landline phone so there's no need to provide for that.* Also, my mobile phone can provide limited WiFi hotspot data service, so I'd like to be able to charge phones and iPads too. TIA My choice of UPS make would be APC. You do need to size the UPS correctly so what you do is add up all the total wattage of all the loads and then work out how many watt-hours need by multiplying by the desired run time. Then you add correction factors such as the UPS conversion efficiency and power factor plus a margin to allow for eventual battery degradation so you don't end up replacing the batteries sooner than expected if the run time falls below your two hours. Budget for replacing the batteries every 3 to 5 years. You could consider also purchasing a PoE network switch as you can get Poe To USB chargers for your ipads and iphones: see here for an example: https://fsrinc.com/fsr-products-list...hrg-p2u-series Most UPSes start beeping during a power cut. The whole point of a UPS is to allow you to shut down your attached IT gear without having catastrophic data loss. So a UPS typically gives you a grace time of say 5 to 15 minutes before it shuts down as if you discharge the batteries too far, the battery lifetime is shortened. If you are running your UPS for that length of time, The UPS's inverter and batteries will be getting warmer than would be typical which will certainly affect the lifetime and reliability of the UPS. So you will need to check the Specs that the UPS you want really can run for that long reliably. Will the beeping of up to 2 hours drive you up the wall? :-) Also many UPSes allow a direct conenction to either a USB equipped computer or sometimes an ethernet connection. The UPS driver software on the PC or server then has the ability to monitor the UPS and can gracefully shut itself down within minutes of a power cut starting before the UPS runs out of power. You can usually set a shutdown threshold of when the batteries reach a X% of total battery capacity. If this is not feasible at the location of teh UPS, you can use a raspberry Pi with some UPS software on it and then you can SSH or Putty or remote desktop into the Pi to check up on teh UPS state and reporting logs. Given that much of your hardware is on wall warts I wonder if a simple car battery and a trickle car battery charger with some LM317Ts or even some cigar lighter socket to Laptop PSUs set to the various voltages required might be a more cost effective and electrically simpler and more reliable option as then you do not have the conversion losses and all the extra circuitry due to: 230 V AC mains to DC battery charging within the UPS DC to AC inverter within the UPS Then 220V AC to DC conversion via the various wall warts to the IT kit vs Car battery trickle charger from 220 V AC to 12V DC Then a bank of LM317Ts set to the required DC voltages to the router, ONT, Wifi AP thereby bypassing the wall warts entirely This is one conversion efficiency loss only vs 3 sets of conversion efficiency losses. You can get Car Cigar socket USB based chargers which would then also power your iPads and iPhones. Another option to look at is a Honda Generator running on LPG gas bottles or on Natural gas. https://genconnexdirect.net/honda_pr...generators.htm You can even wire two Honda generators in parallel via a kit and have an automatic start device in case of a power loss. An ordinary UPS can then cover the transition betwene grid power and locally generated power. In my experience, a natural gas supply or a Propane tank seems more reliable than a nation grid supply..... HTH, S. Comiing back to the idea of using car batteries, if a Caravan leisure battery is used, they can tolerate deeper discharges as the plates are thicker and buckle less ths avoiding the cell(s) shorting out. They are however heavier and bigger and more costly! It *might* be possible to swap the UPS batteries for a leisure battery if battery lifetime/reliability/extended run time is important. |
#37
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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UPS recommendations please
No Name wrote:
Most UPSes start beeping during a power cut. Will the beeping of up to 2 hours drive you up the wall? Only if you don't press the "silence" button ... |
#38
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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UPS recommendations please
On 06/08/2020 09:29, Andy Burns wrote:
No Name wrote: Most UPSes start beeping during a power cut. Will the beeping of up to 2 hours drive you up the wall? Only if you don't press the "silence" button ... I've owned loads of UPSes over the years and I've never seen a silence button!. S. |
#39
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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UPS recommendations please
On Thu, 06 Aug 2020 09:53:46 +0100, No Name wrote:
On 06/08/2020 09:29, Andy Burns wrote: No Name wrote: Most UPSes start beeping during a power cut. Will the beeping of up to 2 hours drive you up the wall? Only if you don't press the "silence" button ... I've owned loads of UPSes over the years and I've never seen a silence button!. I have three APC units here and all they have is on/off. -- My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message. Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org *lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor |
#40
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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UPS recommendations please
Bob Eager wrote:
No Name wrote: Andy Burns wrote: No Name wrote: Most UPSes start beeping during a power cut. Will the beeping of up to 2 hours drive you up the wall? Only if you don't press the "silence" button ... I've owned loads of UPSes over the years and I've never seen a silence button!. I have three APC units here and all they have is on/off. And what does pressing the "on" button do during a power-cut? |
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