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#1
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Stick welding revelation
For years I have used a very basic SIP Merlin AC Arc welder (mostly
repair work, sticking the mower deck back together, and the occasional bit of crude fabrication). Its a transformer based lump, pretty crude with a ridiculously poor duty cycle (weld for 7 mins, let it cool down for half an hour - improved to weld[2] for 7 mins let it cool for 15 with the addition of a couple of large fans internally). However I put up with it on the grounds that I don't need to weld things that often. [2] In fact never mind welding, just turn it on a wait for ten mins and it will overheat and cut out all by itself. However the thought also occurred to me that one of the reasons I don't need to weld that often is because its such a PITA to use, one tends to find alternative ways of doing it! That and it might be quite nice to be able to do some proper fabrication work from time to time. So earlier in the year when an excuse was presented[1] and I finally got round to upgrading to a decent inverter based MIG setup, which has been really nice. At the time I bought it I also got an electrode holder so that I could also stick weld with it if I wanted - but had never got around to trying it out until today. [1] Daughter needed to do some welding for a college project, but could not go in due to lockdown. I wanted to weld up some bits of rebar outside, and the wind was quite strong. So, ideal time to try it in MMA mode... and wow what a difference! You can strike an arc with ease, it runs quiet and smooth with a really nice stable DC arc, and makes it almost easy to get pretty decent results with relatively little skill or practice. No buzzing, spluttering, or sticking either. So moral of the story, I wish I had gone for something like it years ago, and I now have a new found respect for IGBT inverter arc welders - they make the whole process quite civilised! (anyone got a use for a 150A Merlin?) -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#2
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Stick welding revelation
On 29/07/2020 02:06, John Rumm wrote:
So moral of the story, I wish I had gone for something like it years ago, and I now have a new found respect for IGBT inverter arc welders - they make the whole process quite civilised! Tell me exactly what to buy. Seriously. The welder I bought for £50 in 1976 is beginning to get on my nerves a bit. Bill |
#3
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Stick welding revelation
williamwright has brought this to us :
On 29/07/2020 02:06, John Rumm wrote: So moral of the story, I wish I had gone for something like it years ago, and I now have a new found respect for IGBT inverter arc welders - they make the whole process quite civilised! Tell me exactly what to buy. Seriously. The welder I bought for £50 in 1976 is beginning to get on my nerves a bit. Bill I added a 240v cooling fan to the case of mine, plus a handy 13amp socket. The fan runs whether or not it has thermally tripped. It makes a lot of difference to the run time before tripping and to the recovery time after tripping. |
#4
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Stick welding revelation
williamwright wrote:
On 29/07/2020 02:06, John Rumm wrote: So moral of the story, I wish I had gone for something like it years ago, and I now have a new found respect for IGBT inverter arc welders - they make the whole process quite civilised! Tell me exactly what to buy. Seriously. The welder I bought for £50 in 1976 is beginning to get on my nerves a bit. I have an old (very old) 140 amp AC/transformer stick welder and a fairly new (year or so old) 140 amp inverter based stick welder. The difference is huge! It's so much easier to strike with the new one and it makes neater welds as well. It actually makes stick welding almost a pleasure! :-) -- Chris Green · |
#5
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Stick welding revelation
On 29/07/2020 02:06, John Rumm wrote:
For years I have used a very basic SIP Merlin AC Arc welder (mostly repair work, sticking the mower deck back together, and the occasional bit of crude fabrication). Its a transformer based lump, pretty crude with a ridiculously poor duty cycle (weld for 7 mins, let it cool down for half an hour - improved to weld[2] for 7 mins let it cool for 15 with the addition of a couple of large fans internally). However I put up with it on the grounds that I don't need to weld things that often. [2] In fact never mind welding, just turn it on a wait for ten mins and it will overheat and cut out all by itself. However the thought also occurred to me that one of the reasons I don't need to weld that often is because its such a PITA to use, one tends to find alternative ways of doing it! That and it might be quite nice to be able to do some proper fabrication work from time to time. So earlier in the year when an excuse was presented[1] and I finally got round to upgrading to a decent inverter based MIG setup, which has been really nice. At the time I bought it I also got an electrode holder so that I could also stick weld with it if I wanted - but had never got around to trying it out until today. [1] Daughter needed to do some welding for a college project, but could not go in due to lockdown. I wanted to weld up some bits of rebar outside, and the wind was quite strong. So, ideal time to try it in MMA mode...Â* and wow what a difference! You can strike an arc with ease, it runs quiet and smooth with a really nice stable DC arc, and makes it almost easy to get pretty decent results with relatively little skill or practice. No buzzing, spluttering, or sticking either. So moral of the story, I wish I had gone for something like it years ago, and I now have a new found respect for IGBT inverter arc welders - they make the whole process quite civilised! (anyone got a use for a 150A Merlin?) I did something similar a few months ago and wish I'd done it much earlier. I'd had a large'ish transformer-based MIG welder for a looong time, it worked well-enough but I used it so rarely that my welds were always a bit embarrassing, which meant I used it less. I took the plunge and bought a 180 inverter MIG/MMA from R-Tech and using it is a totally different experience to using the old welder, I also switched from using CO2 pub gas to an Argon mix. Welding is so much easier and gives excellent quality, plus the box is much smaller and lighter. There are cheaper units out there but R-Tech were helpful on the phone and have a long'ish warranty. They aren't cheap, but I sold the old welder so the upgrade cost was affordable and well worthwhile. I thoroughly recommend R-Tech and the 180 MIG welder. |
#6
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Stick welding revelation
On 29/07/2020 09:03, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
williamwright has brought this to us : On 29/07/2020 02:06, John Rumm wrote: So moral of the story, I wish I had gone for something like it years ago, and I now have a new found respect for IGBT inverter arc welders - they make the whole process quite civilised! Tell me exactly what to buy. Seriously. The welder I bought for £50 in 1976 is beginning to get on my nerves a bit. Bill I added a 240v cooling fan to the case of mine, plus a handy 13amp socket. The fan runs whether or not it has thermally tripped. It makes a lot of difference to the run time before tripping and to the recovery time after tripping. Yup, I used a pair of either 6" or 8" mains fans - it was better certainly, but still far from good! -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#7
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Stick welding revelation
On Wed, 29 Jul 2020 02:06:31 +0100, John Rumm
wrote: For years I have used a very basic SIP Merlin AC Arc welder (mostly repair work, sticking the mower deck back together, and the occasional bit of crude fabrication). Its a transformer based lump, pretty crude with a ridiculously poor duty cycle (weld for 7 mins, let it cool down for half an hour - improved to weld[2] for 7 mins let it cool for 15 with the addition of a couple of large fans internally). However I put up with it on the grounds that I don't need to weld things that often. [2] In fact never mind welding, just turn it on a wait for ten mins and it will overheat and cut out all by itself. Yup, I have a very cheap (like 15 quid) one from Lidl and it's nearly useless for anything serious. It does work though, for a very restricted value of the word. ;-) snip story So moral of the story, I wish I had gone for something like it years ago, and I now have a new found respect for IGBT inverter arc welders - they make the whole process quite civilised! I have a SIP branded 150Ah stick welder that I have built (and still got) many things with, including several trailers. When you get a good one, plugged into a good supply (and not a long extension lead) and with the right rods, it worked very well. (anyone got a use for a 150A Merlin?) The Mrs bought me a Lincoln MIG years ago and that's a real pleasure to use. Had an rental bottle on it from BOC (Argoshield Universal?) but gave that back [1] and now have a rent free one that works out much cheaper. I have gassless wire but not used it yet. I did a welding class at college (one afternoon a week for 2 years) and we covered most of the technologies available at the time and it was very handy (for my practical lifestyle pov). Cheers, T i m p.s. College welding class, lad in the booth next to me stick welding up a test piece. I here a 'pop', then see a torch come over the screen and into my booth and hear some screams. I put my torch down and flip my visor in time to see him busting out though the curtains behind the booths and run over to the quenching tank, where he plunges his face into the rusty water ... It turns out a ball of weld / flux had ricocheted off his apron and gone up his nose ... ;-( They sent him to hospital 'in case' and I believe he made a full recovery. ;-) [1] Along with my oxy-acetylene bottles. |
#8
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Stick welding revelation
On 29/07/2020 02:29, williamwright wrote:
On 29/07/2020 02:06, John Rumm wrote: So moral of the story, I wish I had gone for something like it years ago, and I now have a new found respect for IGBT inverter arc welders - they make the whole process quite civilised! Tell me exactly what to buy. Seriously. Well based on my limited experience, something inverter based with IGBTs in the electronics. If all you need is stick, then something like: https://www.r-techwelding.co.uk/arc-...ch-pro-arc135/ (and having now used a decent welder in stick / MMA mode, it has greatly expanded my concept of what kind of work I would be happy to tackle with it - I would still probably not want to try welding very thin sheet steel, but general fabrication with, bar, tube, angle, and square hollow etc would be fine) The one I went for is: https://www.r-techwelding.co.uk/mig-...tech-i-mig180/ (many of the reasons being similar to the other poster in this thread who got the same machine) I also got a cart to stick it on, the stick electrode, and reels of both 0.8mm and 0.6mm wire, plus a few spare tips etc. For shielding gas I found a local Mark One hire shop was also a Hobbyweld agent: https://hobbyweld.co.uk/ They do bottles with no rental element, so well suited to intermittent users. The gas was £35 (plus you pay a £65 deposit with the first bottle, but then just swap it for a full one for the price of the gas). I went for the Hobbyweld 5 mix which is 93% Argon, 5% Carbon Dioxide, 2% Oxygen. The welder I bought for £50 in 1976 is beginning to get on my nerves a bit. ISTR the Merlin cost me about that in the late 80's, and yup, getting on nerves seems to be about what they are best at! With hindsight, I bought it as a solution looking for a problem - I just thought it would be a handy thing to have. I remember telling a work mate who I knew was into welding, and his only question was "Why?" - the significance of the question dawned on me over the next few years, when as each problem presented, the solution turned out to not be that good. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#9
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Stick welding revelation
John Rumm presented the following explanation :
With hindsight, I bought it as a solution looking for a problem - I just thought it would be a handy thing to have. I remember telling a work mate who I knew was into welding, and his only question was "Why?" - the significance of the question dawned on me over the next few years, when as each problem presented, the solution turned out to not be that good. I bought my transformer stick welder in the mid-80's second hand, complete with a pile of new angle iron. I learned stick welding working on a contract in Italy and fancied keeping my hand in. I had in mind to make lots of heavy duty shelves for my new garage. I ended up with two at each side, near the car door and they are still there, but over full now. It has come in useful many times since then for lots of jobs. Since then, I bought a transformer MIG welder, but that has been much less useful or used. Best welding accessory I bought was a auto-dimming welding helmet. |
#10
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Stick welding revelation
On Wed, 29 Jul 2020 12:12:22 +0100, John Rumm
wrote: snip I added a 240v cooling fan to the case of mine, plus a handy 13amp socket. The fan runs whether or not it has thermally tripped. It makes a lot of difference to the run time before tripping and to the recovery time after tripping. Yup, I used a pair of either 6" or 8" mains fans - it was better certainly, but still far from good! I actually have two of the cheap Lidl / Alto stick welders (I just wanted to try them for the S&G's) and the 'better' of the two is fan cooled as you say. I wasn't aware of any 'duty cycle' with my old SIP stick welder as it never cut out on me. ;-) Cheers, T i m |
#11
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Stick welding revelation
On 29/07/2020 02:06:31, John Rumm wrote:
snip I wanted to weld up some bits of rebar outside, and the wind was quite strong. So, ideal time to try it in MMA mode...Â* and wow what a difference! You can strike an arc with ease, it runs quiet and smooth with a really nice stable DC arc, and makes it almost easy to get pretty decent results with relatively little skill or practice. No buzzing, spluttering, or sticking either. Of course gasless wire would have done the trick too. |
#12
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Stick welding revelation
On 29/07/2020 13:11, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
John Rumm presented the following explanation : With hindsight, I bought it as a solution looking for a problem - I just thought it would be a handy thing to have. I remember telling a work mate who I knew was into welding, and his only question was "Why?" - the significance of the question dawned on me over the next few years, when as each problem presented, the solution turned out to not be that good. I bought my transformer stick welder in the mid-80's second hand, complete with a pile of new angle iron. I learned stick welding working on a contract in Italy and fancied keeping my hand in. I had in mind to make lots of heavy duty shelves for my new garage. I ended up with two at each side, near the car door and they are still there, but over full now. It has come in useful many times since then for lots of jobs. Since then, I bought a transformer MIG welder, but that has been much less useful or used. Best welding accessory I bought was a auto-dimming welding helmet. Yup :-) (I am tempted to get one of the R-Tech XL ones - they have a bigger window so you get a better view of what you are doing) -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#13
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Stick welding revelation
On 29/07/2020 13:16, Fredxx wrote:
On 29/07/2020 02:06:31, John Rumm wrote: snip I wanted to weld up some bits of rebar outside, and the wind was quite strong. So, ideal time to try it in MMA mode...Â* and wow what a difference! You can strike an arc with ease, it runs quiet and smooth with a really nice stable DC arc, and makes it almost easy to get pretty decent results with relatively little skill or practice. No buzzing, spluttering, or sticking either. Of course gasless wire would have done the trick too. Indeed, but I have not got any of that in stock[1], but still have a third of a 5kg box of 2.5mm electrodes left (which I bought them from CPC *years* ago :-) [1] and the slight faff or remembering to swap the polarity. (It was telling that I got through about 8 rods in ten to fifteen mins with the other welder that would have been over an hours work!) -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#14
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Stick welding revelation
On 29/07/2020 13:16, Fredxx wrote:
On 29/07/2020 02:06:31, John Rumm wrote: snip I wanted to weld up some bits of rebar outside, and the wind was quite strong. So, ideal time to try it in MMA mode...Â* and wow what a difference! You can strike an arc with ease, it runs quiet and smooth with a really nice stable DC arc, and makes it almost easy to get pretty decent results with relatively little skill or practice. No buzzing, spluttering, or sticking either. Of course gasless wire would have done the trick too. IME gasless wire is a bit sensitive to wind too. Another +1 for even the cheap lidl stick inverter welder being quite easy to use (although I find its limit to be 2mm sticks). |
#15
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Stick welding revelation
On 29/07/2020 14:33:23, John Rumm wrote:
On 29/07/2020 13:16, Fredxx wrote: On 29/07/2020 02:06:31, John Rumm wrote: snip I wanted to weld up some bits of rebar outside, and the wind was quite strong. So, ideal time to try it in MMA mode...Â* and wow what a difference! You can strike an arc with ease, it runs quiet and smooth with a really nice stable DC arc, and makes it almost easy to get pretty decent results with relatively little skill or practice. No buzzing, spluttering, or sticking either. Of course gasless wire would have done the trick too. Indeed, but I have not got any of that in stock[1], but still have a third of a 5kg box of 2.5mm electrodes left (which I bought them from CPC *years* ago :-) [1] and the slight faff or remembering to swap the polarity. I have welded satisfactorily when not swapping the electrodes. There was a lot more platter though. (It was telling that I got through about 8 rods in ten to fifteen mins with the other welder that would have been over an hours work!) I have a very old MIG welder and was thinking of making the jump to TIG[1] with AC/DC provision to weld aluminium. Some machines can do all three MMA/MIG/TIG. [1] I would obviously need a bottle of pure argon. |
#16
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Stick welding revelation
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#18
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Stick welding revelation
On 29/07/2020 15:32, Fredxx wrote:
On 29/07/2020 14:33:23, John Rumm wrote: On 29/07/2020 13:16, Fredxx wrote: On 29/07/2020 02:06:31, John Rumm wrote: snip I wanted to weld up some bits of rebar outside, and the wind was quite strong. So, ideal time to try it in MMA mode...Â* and wow what a difference! You can strike an arc with ease, it runs quiet and smooth with a really nice stable DC arc, and makes it almost easy to get pretty decent results with relatively little skill or practice. No buzzing, spluttering, or sticking either. Of course gasless wire would have done the trick too. Indeed, but I have not got any of that in stock[1], but still have a third of a 5kg box of 2.5mm electrodes left (which I bought them from CPC *years* ago :-) [1] and the slight faff or remembering to swap the polarity. I have welded satisfactorily when not swapping the electrodes. There was a lot more platter though. I think it also depends a bit on the wire chosen - some are more fussy than others. (It was telling that I got through about 8 rods in ten to fifteen mins with the other welder that would have been over an hours work!) I have a very old MIG welder and was thinking of making the jump to TIG[1] with AC/DC provision to weld aluminium. Some machines can do all three MMA/MIG/TIG. I looked at a few, but most of the three in ones I looked at seemed to only do DC tig. In the end I thought there was a danger of ending up with a jack of all trades master of none result, and decided to get a stand-alone setup later. (in fact you can do "austere" lift start DC tig with my machine, but it obviously lacks the finesse that you get with a "real" tig machine) -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#19
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Stick welding revelation
On 29/07/2020 17:16, wrote:
On 29/07/2020 15:38, newshound wrote: On 29/07/2020 11:25, wrote: I did something similar a few months ago and wish I'd done it much earlier. I'd had a large'ish transformer-based MIG welder for a looong time, it worked well-enough but I used it so rarely that my welds were always a bit embarrassing, which meant I used it less. I took the plunge and bought a 180 inverter MIG/MMA from R-Tech and using it is a totally different experience to using the old welder, I also switched from using CO2 pub gas to an Argon mix. Welding is so much easier and gives excellent quality, plus the box is much smaller and lighter. There are cheaper units out there but R-Tech were helpful on the phone and have a long'ish warranty. They aren't cheap, but I sold the old welder so the upgrade cost was affordable and well worthwhile. I thoroughly recommend R-Tech and the 180 MIG welder. And that is fine on 240V? I have a SIP 240v MIG that feels underpowered, as does the cheap Lidl MMA inverter. Yes, I'm running it on a 13A plug and welding up to 3mm MS. The manufacturer says a 16A plug will be needed to use the highest settings but I'll deal with that when I need to. I have installed a blue commando style socket for it in the workshop, but so far have not found anything that needed more than the 13A supply. (note that until the other day, it was still loaded with 0.6mm wire which was more suited to daughter's project using lots of 0.8mm steel - so it was not being taxed. I was using 2.5mm rods, and that was fine on a plug. I did not try my 4mm rods) It looks like JR and I bought the same model welder so maybe he can report on using it with thicker steel. Will do, when I have something heavier to weld. The only thing I don't like is the display of current, which works (apparently) when welding ... but who looks at a display when they're welding? :-) yup, you need to set your camera to film it! (a sample and hold would be handy) And if I could do a trade I would actually be reducing my tool count! Yeah, I can see this growing... AC/DC tig, plasma cutter, etc. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#20
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Stick welding revelation
On Wednesday, 29 July 2020 19:46:22 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 29/07/2020 17:16, wrote: On 29/07/2020 15:38, newshound wrote: On 29/07/2020 11:25, wrote: I did something similar a few months ago and wish I'd done it much earlier. I'd had a large'ish transformer-based MIG welder for a looong time, it worked well-enough but I used it so rarely that my welds were always a bit embarrassing, which meant I used it less. I took the plunge and bought a 180 inverter MIG/MMA from R-Tech and using it is a totally different experience to using the old welder, I also switched from using CO2 pub gas to an Argon mix. Welding is so much easier and gives excellent quality, plus the box is much smaller and lighter. There are cheaper units out there but R-Tech were helpful on the phone and have a long'ish warranty. They aren't cheap, but I sold the old welder so the upgrade cost was affordable and well worthwhile. I thoroughly recommend R-Tech and the 180 MIG welder. And that is fine on 240V? I have a SIP 240v MIG that feels underpowered, as does the cheap Lidl MMA inverter. Yes, I'm running it on a 13A plug and welding up to 3mm MS. The manufacturer says a 16A plug will be needed to use the highest settings but I'll deal with that when I need to. I have installed a blue commando style socket for it in the workshop, but so far have not found anything that needed more than the 13A supply. (note that until the other day, it was still loaded with 0.6mm wire which was more suited to daughter's project using lots of 0.8mm steel - so it was not being taxed. I was using 2.5mm rods, and that was fine on a plug. I did not try my 4mm rods) It looks like JR and I bought the same model welder so maybe he can report on using it with thicker steel. Will do, when I have something heavier to weld. The only thing I don't like is the display of current, which works (apparently) when welding ... but who looks at a display when they're welding? :-) yup, you need to set your camera to film it! (a sample and hold would be handy) And if I could do a trade I would actually be reducing my tool count! Yeah, I can see this growing... AC/DC tig, plasma cutter, etc. Maybe try these electrodes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j61ezBX-EyA They're a bit beyond my welders though. NT |
#21
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Stick welding revelation
On 29/07/2020 20:21, Jimk wrote:
newshound Wrote in message: On 29/07/2020 13:16, Fredxx wrote: On 29/07/2020 02:06:31, John Rumm wrote: snip I wanted to weld up some bits of rebar outside, and the wind was quite strong. So, ideal time to try it in MMA mode... and wow what a difference! You can strike an arc with ease, it runs quiet and smooth with a really nice stable DC arc, and makes it almost easy to get pretty decent results with relatively little skill or practice. No buzzing, spluttering, or sticking either. Of course gasless wire would have done the trick too. IME gasless wire is a bit sensitive to wind too. Any more than separate gas in windy conditions? Not unaffected, but still far less sensitive... (if you look at some of the more recent project Brupeg welding, they have been doing lots of flux core, so as to cope with the wind) https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCq9...qfhPKkKFvFkY4A -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#22
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Stick welding revelation
Jimk wrote:
newshound Wrote in message: On 29/07/2020 13:16, Fredxx wrote: On 29/07/2020 02:06:31, John Rumm wrote: snip I wanted to weld up some bits of rebar outside, and the wind was quite strong. So, ideal time to try it in MMA mode... and wow what a difference! You can strike an arc with ease, it runs quiet and smooth with a really nice stable DC arc, and makes it almost easy to get pretty decent results with relatively little skill or practice. No buzzing, spluttering, or sticking either. Of course gasless wire would have done the trick too. IME gasless wire is a bit sensitive to wind too. Any more than separate gas in windy conditions? All the advice I have seen suggests that gasless is better in outdoor windy conditions. In fact it seems one of the reasons for choosing gasless is when welding outdoors. -- Chris Green · |
#23
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Stick welding revelation
On 29/07/2020 22:12, Chris Green wrote:
Jimk wrote: newshound Wrote in message: On 29/07/2020 13:16, Fredxx wrote: On 29/07/2020 02:06:31, John Rumm wrote: snip I wanted to weld up some bits of rebar outside, and the wind was quite strong. So, ideal time to try it in MMA mode... and wow what a difference! You can strike an arc with ease, it runs quiet and smooth with a really nice stable DC arc, and makes it almost easy to get pretty decent results with relatively little skill or practice. No buzzing, spluttering, or sticking either. Of course gasless wire would have done the trick too. IME gasless wire is a bit sensitive to wind too. Any more than separate gas in windy conditions? All the advice I have seen suggests that gasless is better in outdoor windy conditions. In fact it seems one of the reasons for choosing gasless is when welding outdoors. There are also some "dual shield" processes that use flux core with a shielding gas as well. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#24
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Stick welding revelation
On 29/07/2020 19:39:21, John Rumm wrote:
On 29/07/2020 15:32, Fredxx wrote: On 29/07/2020 14:33:23, John Rumm wrote: On 29/07/2020 13:16, Fredxx wrote: On 29/07/2020 02:06:31, John Rumm wrote: snip I wanted to weld up some bits of rebar outside, and the wind was quite strong. So, ideal time to try it in MMA mode...Â* and wow what a difference! You can strike an arc with ease, it runs quiet and smooth with a really nice stable DC arc, and makes it almost easy to get pretty decent results with relatively little skill or practice. No buzzing, spluttering, or sticking either. Of course gasless wire would have done the trick too. Indeed, but I have not got any of that in stock[1], but still have a third of a 5kg box of 2.5mm electrodes left (which I bought them from CPC *years* ago :-) [1] and the slight faff or remembering to swap the polarity. I have welded satisfactorily when not swapping the electrodes. There was a lot more platter though. I think it also depends a bit on the wire chosen - some are more fussy than others. (It was telling that I got through about 8 rods in ten to fifteen mins with the other welder that would have been over an hours work!) I have a very old MIG welder and was thinking of making the jump to TIG[1] with AC/DC provision to weld aluminium. Some machines can do all three MMA/MIG/TIG. I looked at a few, but most of the three in ones I looked at seemed to only do DC tig. In the end I thought there was a danger of ending up with a jack of all trades master of none result, and decided to get a stand-alone setup later. I can see your viewpoint, but inverters give ultimate control over current and voltage. I see no reason why you can't have master of all 3. (in fact you can do "austere" lift start DC tig with my machine, but it obviously lacks the finesse that you get with a "real" tig machine) So not a scratch start? |
#25
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Stick welding revelation
On 29/07/2020 12:39, John Rumm wrote:
On 29/07/2020 02:29, williamwright wrote: On 29/07/2020 02:06, John Rumm wrote: So moral of the story, I wish I had gone for something like it years ago, and I now have a new found respect for IGBT inverter arc welders - they make the whole process quite civilised! Tell me exactly what to buy. Seriously. Well based on my limited experience, something inverter based with IGBTs in the electronics. If all you need is stick, then something like: https://www.r-techwelding.co.uk/arc-...ch-pro-arc135/ (and having now used a decent welder in stick / MMA mode, it has greatly expanded my concept of what kind of work I would be happy to tackle with it - I would still probably not want to try welding very thin sheet steel, but general fabrication with, bar, tube, angle, and square hollow etc would be fine) The one I went for is: https://www.r-techwelding.co.uk/mig-...tech-i-mig180/ (many of the reasons being similar to the other poster in this thread who got the same machine) I also got a cart to stick it on, the stick electrode, and reels of both 0.8mm and 0.6mm wire, plus a few spare tips etc. For shielding gas I found a local Mark One hire shop was also a Hobbyweld agent: https://hobbyweld.co.uk/ They do bottles with no rental element, so well suited to intermittent users. The gas was £35 (plus you pay a £65 deposit with the first bottle, but then just swap it for a full one for the price of the gas). I went for the Hobbyweld 5 mix which is 93% Argon, 5% Carbon Dioxide, 2% Oxygen. The welder I bought for £50 in 1976 is beginning to get on my nerves a bit. ISTR the Merlin cost me about that in the late 80's, and yup, getting on nerves seems to be about what they are best at! With hindsight, I bought it as a solution looking for a problem - I just thought it would be a handy thing to have. I remember telling a work mate who I knew was into welding, and his only question was "Why?" - the significance of the question dawned on me over the next few years, when as each problem presented, the solution turned out to not be that good. Thanks John. Very helpful. Bill |
#26
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Stick welding revelation
newshound Wrote in message:
On 29/07/2020 13:16, Fredxx wrote: On 29/07/2020 02:06:31, John Rumm wrote: snip I wanted to weld up some bits of rebar outside, and the wind was quite strong. So, ideal time to try it in MMA mode... and wow what a difference! You can strike an arc with ease, it runs quiet and smooth with a really nice stable DC arc, and makes it almost easy to get pretty decent results with relatively little skill or practice. No buzzing, spluttering, or sticking either. Of course gasless wire would have done the trick too. IME gasless wire is a bit sensitive to wind too. Any more than separate gas in windy conditions? -- Jimk ----Android NewsGroup Reader---- http://usenet.sinaapp.com/ |
#27
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Stick welding revelation
Chris Green Wrote in message:
Jimk wrote: newshound Wrote in message: On 29/07/2020 13:16, Fredxx wrote: On 29/07/2020 02:06:31, John Rumm wrote: snip I wanted to weld up some bits of rebar outside, and the wind was quite strong. So, ideal time to try it in MMA mode... and wow what a difference! You can strike an arc with ease, it runs quiet and smooth with a really nice stable DC arc, and makes it almost easy to get pretty decent results with relatively little skill or practice. No buzzing, spluttering, or sticking either. Of course gasless wire would have done the trick too. IME gasless wire is a bit sensitive to wind too. Any more than separate gas in windy conditions? All the advice I have seen suggests that gasless is better in outdoor windy conditions. In fact it seems one of the reasons for choosing gasless is when welding outdoors. Indeed. -- Jimk ----Android NewsGroup Reader---- http://usenet.sinaapp.com/ |
#28
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Stick welding revelation
On 30/07/2020 00:31, Fredxx wrote:
On 29/07/2020 19:39:21, John Rumm wrote: On 29/07/2020 15:32, Fredxx wrote: On 29/07/2020 14:33:23, John Rumm wrote: On 29/07/2020 13:16, Fredxx wrote: On 29/07/2020 02:06:31, John Rumm wrote: snip I wanted to weld up some bits of rebar outside, and the wind was quite strong. So, ideal time to try it in MMA mode...Â* and wow what a difference! You can strike an arc with ease, it runs quiet and smooth with a really nice stable DC arc, and makes it almost easy to get pretty decent results with relatively little skill or practice. No buzzing, spluttering, or sticking either. Of course gasless wire would have done the trick too. Indeed, but I have not got any of that in stock[1], but still have a third of a 5kg box of 2.5mm electrodes left (which I bought them from CPC *years* ago :-) [1] and the slight faff or remembering to swap the polarity. I have welded satisfactorily when not swapping the electrodes. There was a lot more platter though. I think it also depends a bit on the wire chosen - some are more fussy than others. (It was telling that I got through about 8 rods in ten to fifteen mins with the other welder that would have been over an hours work!) I have a very old MIG welder and was thinking of making the jump to TIG[1] with AC/DC provision to weld aluminium. Some machines can do all three MMA/MIG/TIG. I looked at a few, but most of the three in ones I looked at seemed to only do DC tig. In the end I thought there was a danger of ending up with a jack of all trades master of none result, and decided to get a stand-alone setup later. I can see your viewpoint, but inverters give ultimate control over current and voltage. I see no reason why you can't have master of all 3. Are you aware of any multi process machines that can do AC tig, with HF start, foot pedal, variable frequency, mark space etc? I found plenty that will do DC tig. In the end I figures a separate machine would probably be easier - especially as it would save swapping gas when swapping process. (in fact you can do "austere" lift start DC tig with my machine, but it obviously lacks the finesse that you get with a "real" tig machine) So not a scratch start? Yup, IFAIU Lift start and scratch start are just different names for the same thing (as opposed to HF start on a more sophisticated machine) -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#29
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Stick welding revelation
John Rumm wrote:
IFAIU Lift start and scratch start are just different names for the same thingÂ* (as opposed to HF start on a more sophisticated machine) I thought (based only on watching welders on youtube) that touching TIG electrodes to the work was a real no-no? Does anyone really use the terms SMAW/GMAW/GTAW rather than stick/MIG/TIG, or is that just an American thing, or a professional welders thing? |
#30
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Stick welding revelation
On 30/07/2020 12:31, Andy Burns wrote:
John Rumm wrote: IFAIU Lift start and scratch start are just different names for the same thingÂ* (as opposed to HF start on a more sophisticated machine) I thought (based only on watching welders on youtube) that touching TIG electrodes to the work was a real no-no? Does anyone really use the terms SMAW/GMAW/GTAW rather than stick/MIG/TIG, or is that just an American thing, or a professional welders thing? I thought they were just the American terms. In the UK, MMA/MIG/TIG all seem widely understood. There's also SAW and Electroslag and, I suppose, thermite! |
#31
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Stick welding revelation
On 30/07/2020 12:31, Andy Burns wrote:
John Rumm wrote: IFAIU Lift start and scratch start are just different names for the same thingÂ* (as opposed to HF start on a more sophisticated machine) I thought (based only on watching welders on youtube) that touching TIG electrodes to the work was a real no-no? You don't want to dip the electrode into the weld puddle, but that different from striking the arc against the (solid) work before the puddle has formed. Does anyone really use the terms SMAW/GMAW/GTAW rather than stick/MIG/TIG, or is that just an American thing, or a professional welders thing? Colleges seem quite keen on using the "proper" terms - to the point of calling MIG, MAG in many cases (since most "MIG" gases have some active (i.e. O2) gas content as well). -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#32
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Stick welding revelation
On 29/07/2020 19:39, John Rumm wrote:
On 29/07/2020 15:32, Fredxx wrote: On 29/07/2020 14:33:23, John Rumm wrote: On 29/07/2020 13:16, Fredxx wrote: On 29/07/2020 02:06:31, John Rumm wrote: snip I wanted to weld up some bits of rebar outside, and the wind was quite strong. So, ideal time to try it in MMA mode...Â* and wow what a difference! You can strike an arc with ease, it runs quiet and smooth with a really nice stable DC arc, and makes it almost easy to get pretty decent results with relatively little skill or practice. No buzzing, spluttering, or sticking either. Of course gasless wire would have done the trick too. Indeed, but I have not got any of that in stock[1], but still have a third of a 5kg box of 2.5mm electrodes left (which I bought them from CPC *years* ago :-) [1] and the slight faff or remembering to swap the polarity. I have welded satisfactorily when not swapping the electrodes. There was a lot more platter though. I think it also depends a bit on the wire chosen - some are more fussy than others. (It was telling that I got through about 8 rods in ten to fifteen mins with the other welder that would have been over an hours work!) I have a very old MIG welder and was thinking of making the jump to TIG[1] with AC/DC provision to weld aluminium. Some machines can do all three MMA/MIG/TIG. I looked at a few, but most of the three in ones I looked at seemed to only do DC tig. In the end I thought there was a danger of ending up with a jack of all trades master of none result, and decided to get a stand-alone setup later. (in fact you can do "austere" lift start DC tig with my machine, but it obviously lacks the finesse that you get with a "real" tig machine) I also started-out with the idea that I would look for a 3-in-1 machine because I had thoughts of learning to TIG weld. The reviews of the cheap machines put me off them and the price of the non-cheap machines put me of those as well. I decided to go for what seemed/seems to be a good 2-in-1 on the basis that I didn't really know why I wanted to TIG weld and am far from short of jobs, or things to learn. |
#33
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Stick welding revelation
On 30/07/2020 12:17:35, John Rumm wrote:
On 30/07/2020 00:31, Fredxx wrote: On 29/07/2020 19:39:21, John Rumm wrote: On 29/07/2020 15:32, Fredxx wrote: On 29/07/2020 14:33:23, John Rumm wrote: On 29/07/2020 13:16, Fredxx wrote: On 29/07/2020 02:06:31, John Rumm wrote: snip I wanted to weld up some bits of rebar outside, and the wind was quite strong. So, ideal time to try it in MMA mode...Â* and wow what a difference! You can strike an arc with ease, it runs quiet and smooth with a really nice stable DC arc, and makes it almost easy to get pretty decent results with relatively little skill or practice. No buzzing, spluttering, or sticking either. Of course gasless wire would have done the trick too. Indeed, but I have not got any of that in stock[1], but still have a third of a 5kg box of 2.5mm electrodes left (which I bought them from CPC *years* ago :-) [1] and the slight faff or remembering to swap the polarity. I have welded satisfactorily when not swapping the electrodes. There was a lot more platter though. I think it also depends a bit on the wire chosen - some are more fussy than others. (It was telling that I got through about 8 rods in ten to fifteen mins with the other welder that would have been over an hours work!) I have a very old MIG welder and was thinking of making the jump to TIG[1] with AC/DC provision to weld aluminium. Some machines can do all three MMA/MIG/TIG. I looked at a few, but most of the three in ones I looked at seemed to only do DC tig. In the end I thought there was a danger of ending up with a jack of all trades master of none result, and decided to get a stand-alone setup later. I can see your viewpoint, but inverters give ultimate control over current and voltage. I see no reason why you can't have master of all 3. Are you aware of any multi process machines that can do AC tig, with HF start, foot pedal, variable frequency, mark space etc? I found plenty that will do DC tig. In the end I figures a separate machine would probably be easier - especially as it would save swapping gas when swapping process. (in fact you can do "austere" lift start DC tig with my machine, but it obviously lacks the finesse that you get with a "real" tig machine) So not a scratch start? Yup, IFAIU Lift start and scratch start are just different names for the same thingÂ* (as opposed to HF start on a more sophisticated machine) Some articles seem to think differently: https://www.everlastgenerators.com/b...-scratch-start |
#34
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Stick welding revelation
On 30/07/2020 13:05, wrote:
On 29/07/2020 19:39, John Rumm wrote: On 29/07/2020 15:32, Fredxx wrote: I have a very old MIG welder and was thinking of making the jump to TIG[1] with AC/DC provision to weld aluminium. Some machines can do all three MMA/MIG/TIG. I looked at a few, but most of the three in ones I looked at seemed to only do DC tig. In the end I thought there was a danger of ending up with a jack of all trades master of none result, and decided to get a stand-alone setup later. (in fact you can do "austere" lift start DC tig with my machine, but it obviously lacks the finesse that you get with a "real" tig machine) I also started-out with the idea that I would look for a 3-in-1 machine because I had thoughts of learning to TIG weld. The reviews of the cheap machines put me off them and the price of the non-cheap machines put me of those as well. Yup often the way! I decided to go for what seemed/seems to be a good 2-in-1 on the basis that I didn't really know why I wanted to TIG weld and am far from short of jobs, or things to learn. I often have to fight the feature creep when buying new stuff like that, just because "it would be nice" or "might come in useful"! In the end I decided that the mostly non digital MiG/Stick combo, covers all of what I have done in the past and way more, and gives a much better platform for basic fabrication. I can probably live without TIG unless I particularly want to do something that only TIG will do, so cross that bridge when it comes! -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#35
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Stick welding revelation
On 30/07/2020 15:39, Fredxx wrote:
On 30/07/2020 12:17:35, John Rumm wrote: On 30/07/2020 00:31, Fredxx wrote: On 29/07/2020 19:39:21, John Rumm wrote: On 29/07/2020 15:32, Fredxx wrote: On 29/07/2020 14:33:23, John Rumm wrote: On 29/07/2020 13:16, Fredxx wrote: On 29/07/2020 02:06:31, John Rumm wrote: snip I wanted to weld up some bits of rebar outside, and the wind was quite strong. So, ideal time to try it in MMA mode...Â* and wow what a difference! You can strike an arc with ease, it runs quiet and smooth with a really nice stable DC arc, and makes it almost easy to get pretty decent results with relatively little skill or practice. No buzzing, spluttering, or sticking either. Of course gasless wire would have done the trick too. Indeed, but I have not got any of that in stock[1], but still have a third of a 5kg box of 2.5mm electrodes left (which I bought them from CPC *years* ago :-) [1] and the slight faff or remembering to swap the polarity. I have welded satisfactorily when not swapping the electrodes. There was a lot more platter though. I think it also depends a bit on the wire chosen - some are more fussy than others. (It was telling that I got through about 8 rods in ten to fifteen mins with the other welder that would have been over an hours work!) I have a very old MIG welder and was thinking of making the jump to TIG[1] with AC/DC provision to weld aluminium. Some machines can do all three MMA/MIG/TIG. I looked at a few, but most of the three in ones I looked at seemed to only do DC tig. In the end I thought there was a danger of ending up with a jack of all trades master of none result, and decided to get a stand-alone setup later. I can see your viewpoint, but inverters give ultimate control over current and voltage. I see no reason why you can't have master of all 3. Are you aware of any multi process machines that can do AC tig, with HF start, foot pedal, variable frequency, mark space etc? I found plenty that will do DC tig. In the end I figures a separate machine would probably be easier - especially as it would save swapping gas when swapping process. (in fact you can do "austere" lift start DC tig with my machine, but it obviously lacks the finesse that you get with a "real" tig machine) So not a scratch start? Yup, IFAIU Lift start and scratch start are just different names for the same thingÂ* (as opposed to HF start on a more sophisticated machine) Some articles seem to think differently: https://www.everlastgenerators.com/b...-scratch-start Seems more like an argument in semantics - since both involve making and breaking contact between the electrode and the metal to start the arc. Its seems to be a question of how much lateral motion occurs in the process. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#36
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Stick welding revelation
On 29/07/2020 02:06, John Rumm wrote:
For years I have used a very basic SIP Merlin AC Arc welder (mostly repair work, sticking the mower deck back together, and the occasional bit of crude fabrication). Its a transformer based lump, pretty crude with a ridiculously poor duty cycle (weld for 7 mins, let it cool down for half an hour - improved to weld[2] for 7 mins let it cool for 15 with the addition of a couple of large fans internally). However I put up with it on the grounds that I don't need to weld things that often. [2] In fact never mind welding, just turn it on a wait for ten mins and it will overheat and cut out all by itself. However the thought also occurred to me that one of the reasons I don't need to weld that often is because its such a PITA to use, one tends to find alternative ways of doing it! That and it might be quite nice to be able to do some proper fabrication work from time to time. So earlier in the year when an excuse was presented[1] and I finally got round to upgrading to a decent inverter based MIG setup, which has been really nice. At the time I bought it I also got an electrode holder so that I could also stick weld with it if I wanted - but had never got around to trying it out until today. [1] Daughter needed to do some welding for a college project, but could not go in due to lockdown. I wanted to weld up some bits of rebar outside, and the wind was quite strong. So, ideal time to try it in MMA mode...Â* and wow what a difference! You can strike an arc with ease, it runs quiet and smooth with a really nice stable DC arc, and makes it almost easy to get pretty decent results with relatively little skill or practice. No buzzing, spluttering, or sticking either. So moral of the story, I wish I had gone for something like it years ago, and I now have a new found respect for IGBT inverter arc welders - they make the whole process quite civilised! (anyone got a use for a 150A Merlin?) Ive always thought stick welding was a black art. You've now inspired me to buy some rods and try out the the electrode holder that came with my inverter MIG. Mike |
#37
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Stick welding revelation
On 31/07/2020 09:03, Muddymike wrote:
Ive always thought stick welding was a black art. You've now inspired me to buy some rods and try out the the electrode holder that came with my inverter MIG. Mike Start with thinner sticks! They are less sticky. |
#38
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Stick welding revelation
On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 09:03:54 +0100, Muddymike
wrote: snip Ive always thought stick welding was a black art. Not black art but one of those things where 1) it's much easier using the right gear 2) in the right position 3) on the right job (to start with especially) and 4) ideally with a mentor to give you tips re the approach and what is right (setup wise, rather than what should right. The books / chart says 60A but in fact on that particular setup you actually *need* 75A etc). You've now inspired me to buy some rods and try out the the electrode holder that came with my inverter MIG. At welding class (48 years ago) I think we started with just running some beads on some flat (clean) steel sheet. Once you have nice consistent beads (where the flux comes off it big chunks (or one piece) with one light tap), go for a fillet weld between a couple of off cuts with a bit of angle ground on each plate to form a 90 Degree 'V'. If you get it right with a slight raised weld over the base metal and good penetration you can put it in the vice and see how easy it is to break the weld open (it shouldn't be of course). ;-) The good thing about being able to stick weld is with good kit it's one of the simplest with no gasses, electronics or feed motors etc. All you really need to do is keep the rods dry (or put them in the oven for a bit if they do get damp). Cheers, T i m p.s. Whilst I could weld (stick / gas) and had my own gear from an early age, I got loads of good mentoring from a coded welder who really did make it look so easy. Even welding a h/d pipe overhead in cramped conditions. ;-) |
#39
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Stick welding revelation
On Friday, 31 July 2020 10:43:59 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 09:03:54 +0100, Muddymike wrote: Ive always thought stick welding was a black art. it is, but not hard to learn. Maybe a grey-black art. The good thing about being able to stick weld is with good kit it's one of the simplest with no gasses, electronics or feed motors etc. If you want easy welding go with gasless mig, WAY easier than stick. Ye olde arc welding with sticks is far cheaper, useful when you've got a lot to do. And with arc the easiest way to do a weld is to lay the stick on the workpiece, stand back and let it do the weld for you. Short the end to workpiece momentarily to get it going. NT |
#40
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Stick welding revelation
On 31/07/2020 10:43, T i m wrote:
On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 09:03:54 +0100, Muddymike wrote: snip Ive always thought stick welding was a black art. Not black art but one of those things where 1) it's much easier using the right gear 2) in the right position 3) on the right job (to start with especially) and 4) ideally with a mentor to give you tips re the approach and what is right (setup wise, rather than what should right. The books / chart says 60A but in fact on that particular setup you actually *need* 75A etc). I have found being able to get into a comfortable position helps greatly - even simple things like when using a new (i.e. long) rod, using my free hand to prop the electrode somewhere nearer the business end, makes for a much easier job of keeping it where you want and not waggling all over the place! p.s. Whilst I could weld (stick / gas) and had my own gear from an early age, I got loads of good mentoring from a coded welder who really did make it look so easy. Even welding a h/d pipe overhead in cramped conditions. ;-) I count anything under 2' from the ground as cramped conditions these days! -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
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