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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#41
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Flat roof question.
On 28/07/2020 15:02, Theo wrote:
Andrew wrote: Sounds like it has already leaked allowing the decking to weaken and sag, hence the ponding. Complete re-decking it the solution. That's what I suspected. Although I wondered if there was a say 5 year shorter term fix? Be aware that part L means it will need to be insulated and too many roofing people will insist on adding insulation on top of the decking and then putting the felt over the insulation. If your flat roof is a 'cold roof' (most are) , this is s complete waste of time since the ventilaton will still allow cold air to circulate underneath the insulation. This is a semi-integral garage, so I'm not sure part L applies? It's still got a great big garage door, even if the internals are a bit nicer than a normal garage. It isn't heated. No, but the internal garage walls are partition walls separating garage from living rooms/kitchen, so hopefully they will be insulated. If its a 1960's build then insulation will be minimum. Quoters seemed to suggest stripping it back to add insulation would be much more than a simple re-roof. Trying to avoid 'and while you're doing that...' project creep. Theo |
#42
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Flat roof question.
Andrew Wrote in message:
On 27/07/2020 14:20, Dave Plowman (News) wrote: In article , George Miles wrote: I've been using EDPM, went on a one day course to learn how to do the corners. https://www.permaroof.co.uk/rubber-roof-videos It's easy to repair with its special primer and glues and patches, like when i dropped a slate on it. Made by firestone , Ultra violet resistant. Normal shed roofing only lasts a few years. Well, this has lasted 30. So you're not doing a good job of selling an alternative. ;-) You said it had already been treated with something, so the actual original probably lasted 20-25? years which is about right for a built-up felted roof. Unless you want to reseal it with Isoflex or whatever every 5 to 8 years thenyou might as well just get it re-felted. Avoid Acrypol if you have already using Isoflex, the two are not compatible. DTDIGTTS. DTDI...? -- Jimk ----Android NewsGroup Reader---- http://usenet.sinaapp.com/ |
#43
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Flat roof question.
On Tuesday, 28 July 2020 15:02:47 UTC+1, Theo wrote:
Andrew wrote: Sounds like it has already leaked allowing the decking to weaken and sag, hence the ponding. Complete re-decking it the solution. That's what I suspected. Although I wondered if there was a say 5 year shorter term fix? Back in '13 or 14 we had a very bad felted roof & looked primarily at EPDM & steel. In the end a temporary job was done using bedsheets, bitumen & sand without stripping any of the damaged felt. Last time I checked it was still fine. Given that I'd take that approach again in future. Total cost was under £25 & it was quick compared to a new roof. Just wear junk clothes, they will get ruined. Early flat roofs were deliberately ponded to increase felt life expectancy. It was soon learnt it wasn't the best idea, but it's not a game ender either. If you cover a sagging roof you take a gamble on its life expectancy, but it's £25 versus far more. NT |
#44
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Flat roof question.
wrote:
Back in '13 or 14 we had a very bad felted roof & looked primarily at EPDM & steel. In the end a temporary job was done using bedsheets, bitumen & sand without stripping any of the damaged felt. Last time I checked it was still fine. Given that I'd take that approach again in future. Total cost was under £25 & it was quick compared to a new roof. Just wear junk clothes, they will get ruined. Interesting, thanks. In this case it's at the front of the house so a bit wary of conspicuous bodging... (and DIY isn't an option in this case) I came across: https://job-prices.co.uk/flat-roof-cost-calculator/ which was 1.3-1.4K for a 3.5x6m flat roof with timber (optionally insulation) in London/SE. Does that sound more plausible than the 2-3K already quoted? Theo |
#46
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Flat roof question.
On Wednesday, 29 July 2020 14:13:31 UTC+1, Theo wrote:
tabbypurr wrote: Back in '13 or 14 we had a very bad felted roof & looked primarily at EPDM & steel. In the end a temporary job was done using bedsheets, bitumen & sand without stripping any of the damaged felt. Last time I checked it was still fine. Given that I'd take that approach again in future. Total cost was under £25 & it was quick compared to a new roof. Just wear junk clothes, they will get ruined. Interesting, thanks. In this case it's at the front of the house so a bit wary of conspicuous bodging... (and DIY isn't an option in this case) It looks the same as any felt roof. The finish used was sand, you can also get stone waste for a nicer look. That would up the cost to near £30 though NT |
#47
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Flat roof question.
On 26/07/2020 18:20, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Big snag is actually knowing how long these 'new' methods do last. Plenty claims, though. The decking is marine ply, so hoping it will still be just fine. The chippie who did the work was very good indeed. Marine ply won't disintegrate if it gets wet - it'll just dry again. Unless it keeps getting wet, when it will rot just like any other wood. Andy |
#48
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Flat roof question.
On Thursday, 30 July 2020 21:58:01 UTC+1, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 26/07/2020 18:20, Dave Plowman (News) wrote: Big snag is actually knowing how long these 'new' methods do last. Plenty claims, though. The decking is marine ply, so hoping it will still be just fine. The chippie who did the work was very good indeed. Marine ply won't disintegrate if it gets wet - it'll just dry again. Unless it keeps getting wet, when it will rot just like any other wood. Andy Marine ply is one of those things much talked about but never seen in diy or pro house maintenance. If someone says marine ply, it's something else. NT |
#49
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Flat roof question.
In article ,
wrote: On Thursday, 30 July 2020 21:58:01 UTC+1, Vir Campestris wrote: On 26/07/2020 18:20, Dave Plowman (News) wrote: Big snag is actually knowing how long these 'new' methods do last. Plenty claims, though. The decking is marine ply, so hoping it will still be just fine. The chippie who did the work was very good indeed. Marine ply won't disintegrate if it gets wet - it'll just dry again. Unless it keeps getting wet, when it will rot just like any other wood. Andy Marine ply is one of those things much talked about but never seen in diy or pro house maintenance. If someone says marine ply, it's something else. Most timber yards round here sell it. Or rather what they call marine ply. At about 5 times the price of general purpose stuff. -- *What was the best thing before sliced bread? Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#50
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Flat roof question.
On 31/07/2020 14:22:14, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , wrote: On Thursday, 30 July 2020 21:58:01 UTC+1, Vir Campestris wrote: On 26/07/2020 18:20, Dave Plowman (News) wrote: Big snag is actually knowing how long these 'new' methods do last. Plenty claims, though. The decking is marine ply, so hoping it will still be just fine. The chippie who did the work was very good indeed. Marine ply won't disintegrate if it gets wet - it'll just dry again. Unless it keeps getting wet, when it will rot just like any other wood. Andy Marine ply is one of those things much talked about but never seen in diy or pro house maintenance. If someone says marine ply, it's something else. Most timber yards round here sell it. Or rather what they call marine ply. At about 5 times the price of general purpose stuff. If you want to go to the extreme make sure the marine ply it is of the WBF type. A further extreme is to get Buffalo board. I've used it on a shed roof without felt. My experience is it lasts 25 years in the open air environment and is still serviceable and waterproof. |
#51
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Flat roof question.
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
wrote: Marine ply is one of those things much talked about but never seen in diy or pro house maintenance. If someone says marine ply, it's something else. Most timber yards round here sell it. Or rather what they call marine ply. At about 5 times the price of general purpose stuff. sure it's not WBP? |
#52
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Flat roof question.
On Friday, 31 July 2020 15:54:40 UTC+1, Andy Burns wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote: tabbypurr wrote: Marine ply is one of those things much talked about but never seen in diy or pro house maintenance. If someone says marine ply, it's something else. Most timber yards round here sell it. Or rather what they call marine ply. At about 5 times the price of general purpose stuff. sure it's not WBP? On a good day it will be. But beware that WBP has no legal meaning now, anything marked WBP can delaminate after a single light shower. DAMHIKT. NT |
#53
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Flat roof question.
In article ,
Andy Burns wrote: Dave Plowman (News) wrote: wrote: Marine ply is one of those things much talked about but never seen in diy or pro house maintenance. If someone says marine ply, it's something else. Most timber yards round here sell it. Or rather what they call marine ply. At about 5 times the price of general purpose stuff. sure it's not WBP? I'd say you'd have to ask them. ;-) -- *I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#54
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Flat roof question.
In article ,
wrote: On Friday, 31 July 2020 15:54:40 UTC+1, Andy Burns wrote: Dave Plowman (News) wrote: tabbypurr wrote: Marine ply is one of those things much talked about but never seen in diy or pro house maintenance. If someone says marine ply, it's something else. Most timber yards round here sell it. Or rather what they call marine ply. At about 5 times the price of general purpose stuff. sure it's not WBP? On a good day it will be. But beware that WBP has no legal meaning now, anything marked WBP can delaminate after a single light shower. DAMHIKT. Not sure I'd be happy paying all that money for something advertised on their web site as marine ply to find it was something different? Of course it's a trick some roofers etc might do. Charge you for marine ply and use something cheaper. -- *What was the best thing before sliced bread? * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#55
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Flat roof question.
On Friday, 31 July 2020 19:09:26 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , tabbypurr wrote: On Friday, 31 July 2020 15:54:40 UTC+1, Andy Burns wrote: Dave Plowman (News) wrote: tabbypurr wrote: Marine ply is one of those things much talked about but never seen in diy or pro house maintenance. If someone says marine ply, it's something else. Most timber yards round here sell it. Or rather what they call marine ply. At about 5 times the price of general purpose stuff. sure it's not WBP? On a good day it will be. But beware that WBP has no legal meaning now, anything marked WBP can delaminate after a single light shower. DAMHIKT. Not sure I'd be happy paying all that money for something advertised on their web site as marine ply to find it was something different? Of course it's a trick some roofers etc might do. Charge you for marine ply and use something cheaper. You wouldn't be the first to be not too happy. In most cases purchasers never find out. If you ask for or accept 'marine ply' you're letting them know you're gullible. NT |
#56
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Flat roof question.
In article ,
wrote: On Friday, 31 July 2020 19:09:26 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote: In article , tabbypurr wrote: On Friday, 31 July 2020 15:54:40 UTC+1, Andy Burns wrote: Dave Plowman (News) wrote: tabbypurr wrote: Marine ply is one of those things much talked about but never seen in diy or pro house maintenance. If someone says marine ply, it's something else. Most timber yards round here sell it. Or rather what they call marine ply. At about 5 times the price of general purpose stuff. sure it's not WBP? On a good day it will be. But beware that WBP has no legal meaning now, anything marked WBP can delaminate after a single light shower. DAMHIKT. Not sure I'd be happy paying all that money for something advertised on their web site as marine ply to find it was something different? Of course it's a trick some roofers etc might do. Charge you for marine ply and use something cheaper. You wouldn't be the first to be not too happy. In most cases purchasers never find out. If you ask for or accept 'marine ply' you're letting them know you're gullible. This particular job was designed and overseen by an architect who is not only very good, but a friend. Using the builders he used on many other jobs and recommended. I also watched much of it being done. I'd be rather surprised if he was happy with other than what he specified being used. On occasions where the builders wanted the spec changed, there were discussions all round about them. -- *Don't worry; it only seems kinky the first time.* Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#57
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Flat roof question.
wrote:
On Friday, 31 July 2020 19:09:26 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote: In article , tabbypurr wrote: On Friday, 31 July 2020 15:54:40 UTC+1, Andy Burns wrote: Dave Plowman (News) wrote: tabbypurr wrote: Marine ply is one of those things much talked about but never seen in diy or pro house maintenance. If someone says marine ply, it's something else. Most timber yards round here sell it. Or rather what they call marine ply. At about 5 times the price of general purpose stuff. sure it's not WBP? On a good day it will be. But beware that WBP has no legal meaning now, anything marked WBP can delaminate after a single light shower. DAMHIKT. Not sure I'd be happy paying all that money for something advertised on their web site as marine ply to find it was something different? Of course it's a trick some roofers etc might do. Charge you for marine ply and use something cheaper. You wouldn't be the first to be not too happy. In most cases purchasers never find out. If you ask for or accept 'marine ply' you're letting them know you're gullible. NT As a matter of interest, what can you specifiy nowadays if you want waterproof plywood? -- Roger Hayter |
#58
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Flat roof question.
On Saturday, 1 August 2020 12:24:11 UTC+1, Roger Hayter wrote:
tabbypurr wrote: On Friday, 31 July 2020 19:09:26 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote: In article , tabbypurr wrote: On Friday, 31 July 2020 15:54:40 UTC+1, Andy Burns wrote: Dave Plowman (News) wrote: tabbypurr wrote: Marine ply is one of those things much talked about but never seen in diy or pro house maintenance. If someone says marine ply, it's something else. Most timber yards round here sell it. Or rather what they call marine ply. At about 5 times the price of general purpose stuff. sure it's not WBP? On a good day it will be. But beware that WBP has no legal meaning now, anything marked WBP can delaminate after a single light shower. DAMHIKT. Not sure I'd be happy paying all that money for something advertised on their web site as marine ply to find it was something different? Of course it's a trick some roofers etc might do. Charge you for marine ply and use something cheaper. You wouldn't be the first to be not too happy. In most cases purchasers never find out. If you ask for or accept 'marine ply' you're letting them know you're gullible. NT As a matter of interest, what can you specifiy nowadays if you want waterproof plywood? https://www.contractflooringjournal....-thing-as-wbp/ NT |
#59
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Flat roof question.
wrote:
On Saturday, 1 August 2020 12:24:11 UTC+1, Roger Hayter wrote: snip NT As a matter of interest, what can you specifiy nowadays if you want waterproof plywood? https://www.contractflooringjournal....d-there-is-no- such-thing-as-wbp/ NT Thanks, that's helpful. But doesn't help with the elusive marine plywood which is allowed to be wet! Perhaps it never existed. -- Roger Hayter |
#60
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Flat roof question.
Roger Hayter wrote:
doesn't help with the elusive marine plywood which is allowed to be wet! Perhaps it never existed. See BS 1088:2018 and friends |
#61
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Flat roof question.
In message , Roger Hayter
writes wrote: On Saturday, 1 August 2020 12:24:11 UTC+1, Roger Hayter wrote: snip NT As a matter of interest, what can you specifiy nowadays if you want waterproof plywood? https://www.contractflooringjournal....d-there-is-no- such-thing-as-wbp/ NT Thanks, that's helpful. But doesn't help with the elusive marine plywood which is allowed to be wet! Perhaps it never existed. I vaguely thought the special feature of marine ply beyond waterproof glue was the lack of *voids* in the laminations. I once watched normal plywood being made at a factory in Boise, Idaho. Strips of glue were mechanically applied before workers *threw* hand broken strips of laminate to cover the worst of the voids before the next sheet of laminate was moved into position. I think marine ply must use knot free timber stock. -- Tim Lamb |
#62
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Flat roof question.
On Sun, 2 Aug 2020 10:37:25 +0100, Roger Hayter wrote:
Thanks, that's helpful. But doesn't help with the elusive marine plywood which is allowed to be wet! Perhaps it never existed. Well some form of ply wood existed that didn't fall apart when it got wet. There was a bit here, untreated/paintted, used as a sign propped up against a wall so lower edge on the ground that was still sound after a couple of years. Bit moss and algae covered mind... -- Cheers Dave. |
#63
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Flat roof question.
On 02/08/2020 10:37:25, Roger Hayter wrote:
wrote: On Saturday, 1 August 2020 12:24:11 UTC+1, Roger Hayter wrote: snip NT As a matter of interest, what can you specifiy nowadays if you want waterproof plywood? https://www.contractflooringjournal....d-there-is-no- such-thing-as-wbp/ NT Thanks, that's helpful. But doesn't help with the elusive marine plywood which is allowed to be wet! Perhaps it never existed. I'm not sure if it did. As I have said earlier the closest you can get in buffalo boards that I have seen weather outside for 30+ years. They were still sound and were showing their age more from a cosmetic point of view. I have also seen marine ply last 30 years as a narrowboat floor. One side would have been exposed to a wet bilge. Some areas were becoming soggy. In terms of specs there are some BS and ISO number as indicated by various links in this thread. But for total immersion I might use plastics like: https://www.kedel.co.uk/mixed-plasti...50-x-50mm.html Not cheap. OSB of the right grade is used in houses where the panel is subject to moisture, but again not immersion. |
#64
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Flat roof question.
On Sunday, 2 August 2020 10:37:27 UTC+1, Roger Hayter wrote:
tabbypurr wrote: On Saturday, 1 August 2020 12:24:11 UTC+1, Roger Hayter wrote: snip NT As a matter of interest, what can you specifiy nowadays if you want waterproof plywood? https://www.contractflooringjournal....d-there-is-no- such-thing-as-wbp/ NT Thanks, that's helpful. But doesn't help with the elusive marine plywood which is allowed to be wet! Perhaps it never existed. Standard stuff on boats. I thought the wiki addressed the new classes in one of the links. NT |
#65
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Flat roof question.
On Sunday, 2 August 2020 11:38:22 UTC+1, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sun, 2 Aug 2020 10:37:25 +0100, Roger Hayter wrote: Thanks, that's helpful. But doesn't help with the elusive marine plywood which is allowed to be wet! Perhaps it never existed. Well some form of ply wood existed that didn't fall apart when it got wet. There was a bit here, untreated/paintted, used as a sign propped up against a wall so lower edge on the ground that was still sound after a couple of years. Bit moss and algae covered mind... WBP or shuttering ply NT |
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