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Default Engine Oil top ups (thing of the past maybe?)

Just chatting with a neighbour about engine oils (as you do) and
remembering how, after an oil change, a sticker would be put on your engine
to show what oil had been used. It used to be helpful back then - I would
think even more now with synthetics, semi-synthetics and mineral oils in
use. Has anyone seen this recently?
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Default Engine Oil top ups (thing of the past maybe?)

On 25/07/2020 12:11, JohnP wrote:

Just chatting with a neighbour about engine oils (as you do) and
remembering how, after an oil change, a sticker would be put on your engine
to show what oil had been used. It used to be helpful back then - I would
think even more now with synthetics, semi-synthetics and mineral oils in
use. Has anyone seen this recently?


Never. I may have been lucky, but I've never had a car that really
required a top-up between oil changes. (First car a 1972 Escort.)

--
Max Demian
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In article ,
JohnP wrote:
Just chatting with a neighbour about engine oils (as you do) and
remembering how, after an oil change, a sticker would be put on your
engine to show what oil had been used. It used to be helpful back then
- I would think even more now with synthetics, semi-synthetics and
mineral oils in use. Has anyone seen this recently?


Many makers these days specify the brand and type of oil to be used
exclusively. Last time mine was serviced, they included a top up pack of
the correct oil - a litre in a plastic bag with disposable gloves and
tissues. ;-)

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Default Engine Oil top ups (thing of the past maybe?)

On 25/07/2020 13:26, Max Demian wrote:
On 25/07/2020 12:11, JohnP wrote:

Just chatting with a neighbour about engine oils (as you do) and
remembering how, after an oil change, a sticker would be put on your
engine
to show what oil had been used. It used to be helpful back then - I would
think even more now with synthetics, semi-synthetics and mineral oils in
use. Has anyone seen this recently?


Never. I may have been lucky, but I've never had a car that really
required a top-up between oil changes. (First car a 1972 Escort.)


Never bothered. Used to have an old 850 Mini that did 500 miles to the
pint. Always carried a gallon of Duckhams 20/40W in the boot for on the
fly topups!
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Default Engine Oil top ups (thing of the past maybe?)

On 25/07/2020 14:18, Andy Bennet wrote:
On 25/07/2020 13:26, Max Demian wrote:
On 25/07/2020 12:11, JohnP wrote:

Just chatting with a neighbour about engine oils (as you do) and
remembering how, after an oil change, a sticker would be put on your
engine
to show what oil had been used. It used to be helpful back then - I
would
think even more now with synthetics, semi-synthetics and mineral oils in
use. Has anyone seen this recently?


Never. I may have been lucky, but I've never had a car that really
required a top-up between oil changes. (First car a 1972 Escort.)


Never bothered. Used to have an old 850 Mini that did 500 miles to the
pint. Always carried a gallon of Duckhams 20/40W in the boot for on the
fly topups!

My GF had one that did 50 miles to the quart.../


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Default Engine Oil top ups (thing of the past maybe?)

I was told that with new cars main agents are obliged to put in whatever is in the manual or originally in the car. Wether you believe that is up for discussion, I a friend who had a particular fondness for Triumph Dolomites in the day and had a battle with his local Lookers BL garage who charged by the quart can for oil despite being told by a mechanic that the oil came out of big drum at the back of the garage.

Richard
,
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Default Engine Oil top ups (thing of the past maybe?)

Tricky Dicky Wrote in message:
I was told that with new cars main agents are obliged to put in whatever is in the manual or originally in the car. Wether you believe that is up for discussion, I a friend who had a particular fondness for Triumph Dolomites in the day and had a battle with his local Lookers BL garage who charged by the quart can for oil despite being told by a mechanic that the oil came out of big drum at the back of the garage.

Richard
,


Hmm "Lookers", "BL", what a combo!

They all do a variation on the scam...
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On 25/07/2020 14:49, Tricky Dicky wrote:
I was told that with new cars main agents are obliged to put in whatever is in the manual or originally in the car. Wether you believe that is up for discussion, I a friend who had a particular fondness for Triumph Dolomites in the day and had a battle with his local Lookers BL garage who charged by the quart can for oil despite being told by a mechanic that the oil came out of big drum at the back of the garage.

Richard
,

Worked on the pumps one summer in the mid 60's, often got asked to check
the oil and top it up. We were required to refill empty oil cans from
the bulk tank in the workshop, and try to make sure the customer didn't
see that we didn't have to remove an aluminium tab from them. Castrolite
and XL in those days.
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Default Engine Oil top ups (thing of the past maybe?)

In article ,
Tricky Dicky wrote:
I was told that with new cars main agents are obliged to put in whatever is in the manual or originally in the car. Wether you believe that is up for discussion, I a friend who had a particular fondness for Triumph Dolomites in the day and had a battle with his local Lookers BL garage who charged by the quart can for oil despite being told by a mechanic that the oil came out of big drum at the back of the garage.


Richard
,


Dealers today still buy oil in bulk. But charge you the retail price per
litre.

Had my car serviced by the local main BMW dealer (spit) now thankfully
closed down. I picked it up from them and looked under the bonnet to check
they'd fixed a leak from the steering - which I'd asked to be done and
been charged for. If they had, they'd not cleaned it up. So checked the
oil too. Well under full on the dipstick. On their level forecourt. I'd
not even started it.

Workshop manager said this was impossible as their equipment measured out
the correct amount for each model. And told me I didn't know how to check
the oil. So got the c**t to show me where I'd gone wrong. Even gave him a
tissue from the box in the car. He obviously loved looking the fool he
was. Then told me I should have asked to have the leak from the steering
cleaned. I hope he lost his job when they closed down.

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Default Engine Oil top ups (thing of the past maybe?)

On 25/07/2020 15:20, newshound wrote:
On 25/07/2020 14:49, Tricky Dicky wrote:


I was told that with new cars main agents are obliged to put in
whatever is in the manual or originally in the car. Wether you believe
that is up for discussion, I a friend who had a particular fondness
for Triumph Dolomites in the day and had a battle with his local
Lookers BL garage who charged by the quart can for oil despite being
told by a mechanic that the oil came out of big drum at the back of
the garage.


Worked on the pumps one summer in the mid 60's, often got asked to check
the oil and top it up. We were required to refill empty oil cans from
the bulk tank in the workshop, and try to make sure the customer didn't
see that we didn't have to remove an aluminium tab from them. Castrolite
and XL in those days.


Probably filtered sump oil. In the 60s they had bulk oil tanks on the
forecourt and green jugs to transfer the oil to the engine.

--
Max Demian


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Default Engine Oil top ups (thing of the past maybe?)

On 25/07/2020 14:49, Tricky Dicky wrote:
I was told that with new cars main agents are obliged to put in whatever is in the manual or originally in the car. Wether you believe that is up for discussion, I a friend who had a particular fondness for Triumph Dolomites in the day and had a battle with his local Lookers BL garage who charged by the quart can for oil despite being told by a mechanic that the oil came out of big drum at the back of the garage.

Richard
,

remember that rip off...didn't come from tins with that tin foil rip off
strip anyway...
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On 25/07/2020 15:20, newshound wrote:
On 25/07/2020 14:49, Tricky Dicky wrote:
I was told that with new cars main agents are obliged to put in
whatever is in the manual or originally in the car. Wether you believe
that is up for discussion, I a friend who had a particular fondness
for Triumph Dolomites in the day and had a battle with his local
Lookers BL garage who charged by the quart can for oil despite being
told by a mechanic that the oil came out of big drum at the back of
the garage.

Richard
,

Worked on the pumps one summer in the mid 60's, often got asked to check
the oil and top it up. We were required to refill empty oil cans from
the bulk tank in the workshop, and try to make sure the customer didn't
see that we didn't have to remove an aluminium tab from them. Castrolite
and XL in those days.

loved that tear off strip
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In article ,
Max Demian wrote:
Worked on the pumps one summer in the mid 60's, often got asked to
check the oil and top it up. We were required to refill empty oil
cans from the bulk tank in the workshop, and try to make sure the
customer didn't see that we didn't have to remove an aluminium tab
from them. Castrolite and XL in those days.


Probably filtered sump oil.


You'd need some filtration to make used oil look clean again. Although it
can be done in a factory. Many small garages used old sump oil to heat the
workshop in the winter.

In the 60s they had bulk oil tanks on the
forecourt and green jugs to transfer the oil to the engine.


Yes - a cabinet containing the oil. And a hand pump to get it to the jug.

--
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Default Engine Oil top ups (thing of the past maybe?)

On 25/07/2020 14:49, Tricky Dicky wrote:
I was told that with new cars main agents are obliged to put in whatever is in the manual or originally in the car. Wether you believe that is up for discussion, I a friend who had a particular fondness for Triumph Dolomites in the day and had a battle with his local Lookers BL garage who charged by the quart can for oil despite being told by a mechanic that the oil came out of big drum at the back of the garage.

Richard
,


All garages used to to that in the days when most cars used the same
type of oil. Local Citroen /peugeot dealer had oil pipes delivering
from a bulk tank round the back, to individual nozzle guns at each
of the 4-post ramps, 6 of them I seem to recollect.

Now almost every model seems to have its own special oil code.

These days they all seems to be running the 'oil flush treatment'
racket, where this wording is printed on the invoice and billed
at anything from 9.99 to 17.99 plus VAT.
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Default Engine Oil top ups (thing of the past maybe?)


I really think we need to know if it is Synthetic, Semi, or mineral. Not
too bothered about the brand - or I would take what I wanted to the garage.


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Yes well, the smell and smoke from the older cars like the ones described
could not under any circumstances to be said to be clean and green. Mind you
surprised people have not banned 2 stroke engines as used in some garden
equipment and el cheapo outboard motors as they check out a heap of blue
smellyness. When I was young I liked the smell. weird.
Brian

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"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 25 Jul 2020 14:20:06 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 25/07/2020 14:18, Andy Bennet wrote:
On 25/07/2020 13:26, Max Demian wrote:
On 25/07/2020 12:11, JohnP wrote:

Just chatting with a neighbour about engine oils (as you do) and
remembering how, after an oil change, a sticker would be put on your
engine
to show what oil had been used. It used to be helpful back then - I
would
think even more now with synthetics, semi-synthetics and mineral oils
in
use. Has anyone seen this recently?

Never. I may have been lucky, but I've never had a car that really
required a top-up between oil changes. (First car a 1972 Escort.)


Never bothered. Used to have an old 850 Mini that did 500 miles to the
pint. Always carried a gallon of Duckhams 20/40W in the boot for on the
fly topups!

My GF had one that did 50 miles to the quart.../


When I was a kid in the 1950's my father regularly bought half a pint
of oil from the local garage when getting petrol. The garage forecourt
had a little row of graduated oil-pouring cans standing by the pumps
just for that purpose.

--

Chris



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On 25/07/2020 18:53, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Max Demian wrote:
Worked on the pumps one summer in the mid 60's, often got asked to
check the oil and top it up. We were required to refill empty oil
cans from the bulk tank in the workshop, and try to make sure the
customer didn't see that we didn't have to remove an aluminium tab
from them. Castrolite and XL in those days.


Probably filtered sump oil.


You'd need some filtration to make used oil look clean again. Although it
can be done in a factory. Many small garages used old sump oil to heat the
workshop in the winter.

Exactly, no chance of that in a workshop of those days.

I still find it mildly astonishing that you can still see through the
oil in my Jazz after a year.
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On 25/07/2020 20:25, JohnP wrote:
I really think we need to know if it is Synthetic, Semi, or mineral. Not
too bothered about the brand - or I would take what I wanted to the garage.

indeed
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Default Engine Oil top ups (thing of the past maybe?)

We have a 7-yr-old Panda Eco (does a fantastic job as "the shopping
trolley").

In the recent (and ongoing) unpleasantness it was due a service, but our
garage had shut up shop. I suddenly realised that _this_ was _one_
thing I could DIY on a car these days.

Long story short: I looked at the 3 or 4 part-full oil bottles I had
had in the garage for umpteen years, and they came, together, to about a
litre less than I needed (of 10/40 oil). So I went to our (magnificent)
local motor factors and reviewed the litre bottles that they had.

Cheapest was a synthetic oil. I asked the lad there (an about-40 yrs
old lad, spent all his working life in the motor factors, and engines)
about mixing this with the oil I'd got: he said "doesn't matter - just
shove it in, as long as it's the right viscosity".

So I did. The Panda hasn't complained yet. (It does about 4000m per
year btw).

My 2p
John


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In article ,
Another John wrote:
Cheapest was a synthetic oil. I asked the lad there (an about-40 yrs
old lad, spent all his working life in the motor factors, and engines)
about mixing this with the oil I'd got: he said "doesn't matter - just
shove it in, as long as it's the right viscosity".


So I did. The Panda hasn't complained yet. (It does about 4000m per
year btw).


I very much doubt using the wrong oil would ever have immediate
consequences. But might well cause premature engine wear.

Oddly, it can be more so on older engines. Pushrod engines have much
higher loads to the camshaft than modern OHC multi valve types. And a worn
cam may not stop it running, but will reduce the performance and increase
fuel usage.

--
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On 26/07/2020 14:47, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sun, 26 Jul 2020 13:54:42 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Oddly, it can be more so on older engines. Pushrod engines have much
higher loads to the camshaft than modern OHC multi valve types. And a
worn cam may not stop it running, but will reduce the performance and
increase fuel usage.


Judging by the number of drivers I've known that failed to notice their
engine was firing on 3 not 4 cylinders, it might not get noticed ....

Dave is of course talking tosh. The load on the camshaft, all other
things being equal, does not change just because there is a pushrod
involved.

not until you use seriously high racing RPM where the pushrod mass has
some effect, anyway.

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On Sunday, 26 July 2020 16:20:19 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 26/07/2020 14:47, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sun, 26 Jul 2020 13:54:42 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Oddly, it can be more so on older engines. Pushrod engines have much
higher loads to the camshaft than modern OHC multi valve types. And a
worn cam may not stop it running, but will reduce the performance and
increase fuel usage.


Judging by the number of drivers I've known that failed to notice their
engine was firing on 3 not 4 cylinders, it might not get noticed ....

Dave is of course talking tosh. The load on the camshaft, all other
things being equal, does not change just because there is a pushrod
involved.

not until you use seriously high racing RPM where the pushrod mass has
some effect, anyway.


How many cars are pushrod nowadays?


NT
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On Sun, 26 Jul 2020 13:48:44 +0100, Another John wrote:

Cheapest was a synthetic oil. I asked the lad there (an about-40 yrs
old lad, spent all his working life in the motor factors, and engines)
about mixing this with the oil I'd got: he said "doesn't matter - just
shove it in, as long as it's the right viscosity".


ISTR: there was once a time where the different additives in engine oils could
be incompatible, and cause it to gel or thicken. Along came the military, and
mandated that all oils be mixable without (drastic) downsides.

(I tried to find my source, but google groups seem more broken than usual,
returning 0 hits for "motor oil mix"...)


Thomas Prufer


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wrote:
On Sunday, 26 July 2020 16:20:19 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 26/07/2020 14:47, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sun, 26 Jul 2020 13:54:42 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Oddly, it can be more so on older engines. Pushrod engines have much
higher loads to the camshaft than modern OHC multi valve types. And a
worn cam may not stop it running, but will reduce the performance and
increase fuel usage.

Judging by the number of drivers I've known that failed to notice their
engine was firing on 3 not 4 cylinders, it might not get noticed ....

Dave is of course talking tosh. The load on the camshaft, all other
things being equal, does not change just because there is a pushrod
involved.

not until you use seriously high racing RPM where the pushrod mass has
some effect, anyway.


How many cars are pushrod nowadays?


Not many, but the new C8 Corvette uses pushrods.

Tim



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Thomas Prufer wrote in
:

On Sun, 26 Jul 2020 13:48:44 +0100, Another John
wrote:

Cheapest was a synthetic oil. I asked the lad there (an about-40 yrs
old lad, spent all his working life in the motor factors, and engines)
about mixing this with the oil I'd got: he said "doesn't matter -
just shove it in, as long as it's the right viscosity".


ISTR: there was once a time where the different additives in engine
oils could be incompatible, and cause it to gel or thicken. Along came
the military, and mandated that all oils be mixable without (drastic)
downsides.

(I tried to find my source, but google groups seem more broken than
usual, returning 0 hits for "motor oil mix"...)


Thomas Prufer




Seeing lots of stickers used to be something I looked for when buying a
used car. It implied it had been serviced. Free advert for the oil
company as well.
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On 26/07/2020 14:45, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sun, 26 Jul 2020 09:31:11 +0100, newshound wrote:

On 25/07/2020 18:53, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Max Demian wrote:
Worked on the pumps one summer in the mid 60's, often got asked to
check the oil and top it up. We were required to refill empty oil
cans from the bulk tank in the workshop, and try to make sure the
customer didn't see that we didn't have to remove an aluminium tab
from them. Castrolite and XL in those days.

Probably filtered sump oil.

You'd need some filtration to make used oil look clean again. Although
it can be done in a factory. Many small garages used old sump oil to
heat the workshop in the winter.

Exactly, no chance of that in a workshop of those days.

I still find it mildly astonishing that you can still see through the
oil in my Jazz after a year.


Well the darkening is (mainly) soot from the combustion bypassing the
rings, so I am guessing they've improved the tolerances ?

More likely I think improvements in combustion technology from a
combination of injection, sensors, and ECUs, leading to much less soot.
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On 27/07/2020 12:21, newshound wrote:
On 26/07/2020 14:45, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sun, 26 Jul 2020 09:31:11 +0100, newshound wrote:

On 25/07/2020 18:53, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Â*Â*Â*Â* Max Demian wrote:
Worked on the pumps one summer in the mid 60's, often got asked to
check the oil and top it up. We were required to refill empty oil
cans from the bulk tank in the workshop, and try to make sure the
customer didn't see that we didn't have to remove an aluminium tab
from them. Castrolite and XL in those days.

Probably filtered sump oil.

You'd need some filtration to make used oil look clean again. Although
it can be done in a factory. Many small garages used old sump oil to
heat the workshop in the winter.

Exactly, no chance of that in a workshop of those days.

I still find it mildly astonishing that you can still see through the
oil in my Jazz after a year.


Well the darkening is (mainly) soot from the combustion bypassing the
rings, so I am guessing they've improved the tolerances ?

More likely I think improvements in combustion technology from a
combination of injection, sensors, and ECUs, leading to much less soot.


The soot was as much as anything oil exposed to high temperature blowby
gases.

The fact of the matter is that materials have come on hugely. A 1960s
BMC A or B engine needed new big end shells at 30,000 and mains at
60,000 or a complete rebuild with rebore and new pistons at 90,000.

Most modern engines are 120-180k before there is *any* noticeable wear.

Metals are harder, oils are better and machining is to far tighter
tolerances.

--
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conventions is invited to try transgressing those conventions from the
windows of my apartment. (I live on the twenty-first floor.) "

Alan Sokal
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"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
The fact of the matter is that materials have come on hugely. A 1960s BMC
A or B engine needed new big end shells at 30,000 and mains at 60,000 or a
complete rebuild with rebore and new pistons at 90,000.

Most modern engines are 120-180k before there is *any* noticeable wear.

Metals are harder, oils are better and machining is to far tighter
tolerances.


My 2008 Peugeot has done 180,000 and it's still on its original clutch (*),
exhaust system and shock absorbers. The timing belt was replaced at about
100,000 miles - not because it was worn but because this was the mileage
stated by the manufacturer, and a broken belt would cause a valve/piston
collision and hence major engine repair. The water pump was replaced at the
same time simply because it is driven by the timing belt and the labour to
replace the pump is the same as to replace the belt, so it makes sense to
replace the pump just in case, rather than pay for a second lot of labour
some time later on (the cost of a new pump is a lot less than the labour to
replace it).

OK, so it's needed a new catalytic converter and diesel particulate filter,
two things that a 1960s BMC A or B engine would not have had, but those are
there for environmental rather than performance reasons: the car would run
(illegally) perfectly well without them.

I'm not aware of any rust on the body or on any of the structural members.
My first car, a 1980 Renault 5, suffered from bad rust over the rear wheels,
but even that wasn't structural.


(*) Although the bite point has gradually risen, there's no hint of slippage
so it doesn't need replacing yet. I've never had a car before that has
lasted beyond about 80,000 on the same clutch.

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Default Engine Oil top ups (thing of the past maybe?)

In article ,
wrote:
On Sunday, 26 July 2020 16:20:19 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 26/07/2020 14:47, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sun, 26 Jul 2020 13:54:42 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Oddly, it can be more so on older engines. Pushrod engines have much
higher loads to the camshaft than modern OHC multi valve types. And a
worn cam may not stop it running, but will reduce the performance and
increase fuel usage.

Judging by the number of drivers I've known that failed to notice their
engine was firing on 3 not 4 cylinders, it might not get noticed ....

Dave is of course talking tosh. The load on the camshaft, all other
things being equal, does not change just because there is a pushrod
involved.

not until you use seriously high racing RPM where the pushrod mass has
some effect, anyway.


How many cars are pushrod nowadays?


You might ask Turnip why he's talking crap. But only to be expected. And
at various times he's claimed to be an engineer.

--
*Gargling is a good way to see if your throat leaks.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.


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Default Engine Oil top ups (thing of the past maybe?)

In article
,
Tim+ wrote:
wrote:
On Sunday, 26 July 2020 16:20:19 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 26/07/2020 14:47, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sun, 26 Jul 2020 13:54:42 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Oddly, it can be more so on older engines. Pushrod engines have much
higher loads to the camshaft than modern OHC multi valve types. And a
worn cam may not stop it running, but will reduce the performance and
increase fuel usage.

Judging by the number of drivers I've known that failed to notice their
engine was firing on 3 not 4 cylinders, it might not get noticed ....

Dave is of course talking tosh. The load on the camshaft, all other
things being equal, does not change just because there is a pushrod
involved.

not until you use seriously high racing RPM where the pushrod mass has
some effect, anyway.


How many cars are pushrod nowadays?


Not many, but the new C8 Corvette uses pushrods.


Still quite a few cars on the road with pushrod engines.
I was merely trying to explain why is is a good idea to use the correct
oil for your engine - regardless of age. But if you by a banger and throw
it away every year, it doesn't much matter.

--
*WHY IS THERE AN EXPIRATION DATE ON SOUR CREAM?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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Default Engine Oil top ups (thing of the past maybe?)

On Sunday, July 26, 2020 at 9:31:13 AM UTC+1, newshound wrote:
On 25/07/2020 18:53, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Max Demian wrote:
Worked on the pumps one summer in the mid 60's, often got asked to
check the oil and top it up. We were required to refill empty oil
cans from the bulk tank in the workshop, and try to make sure the
customer didn't see that we didn't have to remove an aluminium tab
from them. Castrolite and XL in those days.


Probably filtered sump oil.


You'd need some filtration to make used oil look clean again. Although it
can be done in a factory. Many small garages used old sump oil to heat the
workshop in the winter.

Exactly, no chance of that in a workshop of those days.

I still find it mildly astonishing that you can still see through the
oil in my Jazz after a year.

Wrong vowel ??
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Default Engine Oil top ups (thing of the past maybe?)

On Monday, 27 July 2020 14:16:41 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:
On Sunday, 26 July 2020 16:20:19 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 26/07/2020 14:47, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sun, 26 Jul 2020 13:54:42 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Oddly, it can be more so on older engines. Pushrod engines have much
higher loads to the camshaft than modern OHC multi valve types. And a
worn cam may not stop it running, but will reduce the performance and
increase fuel usage.

Judging by the number of drivers I've known that failed to notice their
engine was firing on 3 not 4 cylinders, it might not get noticed ....

Dave is of course talking tosh. The load on the camshaft, all other
things being equal, does not change just because there is a pushrod
involved.

not until you use seriously high racing RPM where the pushrod mass has
some effect, anyway.


How many cars are pushrod nowadays?


You might ask Turnip why he's talking crap. But only to be expected. And
at various times he's claimed to be an engineer.


He is. You're not.


NT
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Default Engine Oil top ups (thing of the past maybe?)

In article ,
wrote:
On Monday, 27 July 2020 14:16:41 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:
On Sunday, 26 July 2020 16:20:19 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 26/07/2020 14:47, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sun, 26 Jul 2020 13:54:42 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Oddly, it can be more so on older engines. Pushrod engines have
much higher loads to the camshaft than modern OHC multi valve
types. And a worn cam may not stop it running, but will reduce
the performance and increase fuel usage.

Judging by the number of drivers I've known that failed to
notice their engine was firing on 3 not 4 cylinders, it might
not get noticed ....

Dave is of course talking tosh. The load on the camshaft, all
other things being equal, does not change just because there is a
pushrod involved.

not until you use seriously high racing RPM where the pushrod mass
has some effect, anyway.


How many cars are pushrod nowadays?


You might ask Turnip why he's talking crap. But only to be expected.
And at various times he's claimed to be an engineer.


He is. You're not.


Even a child who has played with a Meccano set would know there is more
load on the cam of a pushrod engine than an OHC design. It is so
blindingly obvious it takes a real fool to dispute it. No surprise you
agree with Turnip.

--
*Am I ambivalent? Well, yes and no.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.


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Default Engine Oil top ups (thing of the past maybe?)

On 27/07/2020 12:29, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 27/07/2020 12:21, newshound wrote:
On 26/07/2020 14:45, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sun, 26 Jul 2020 09:31:11 +0100, newshound wrote:

On 25/07/2020 18:53, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Â*Â*Â*Â* Max Demian wrote:
Worked on the pumps one summer in the mid 60's, often got asked to
check the oil and top it up. We were required to refill empty oil
cans from the bulk tank in the workshop, and try to make sure the
customer didn't see that we didn't have to remove an aluminium tab
from them. Castrolite and XL in those days.

Probably filtered sump oil.

You'd need some filtration to make used oil look clean again. Although
it can be done in a factory. Many small garages used old sump oil to
heat the workshop in the winter.

Exactly, no chance of that in a workshop of those days.

I still find it mildly astonishing that you can still see through the
oil in my Jazz after a year.

Well the darkening is (mainly) soot from the combustion bypassing the
rings, so I am guessing they've improved the tolerances ?

More likely I think improvements in combustion technology from a
combination of injection, sensors, and ECUs, leading to much less soot.


The soot was as much as anything oil exposed to high temperature blowby
gases.

The fact of the matter is that materials have come on hugely. A 1960s
BMC A or B engine needed new big end shells at 30,000 and mains at
60,000 or a complete rebuild with rebore and new pistons at 90,000.

Anywhere near the coast in the western or southern parts of the country
and they rusted away long before they needed major engine repairs.

In the 60' and 70's people actually made a point of buying 2nd
hand cars of the more up-market models that had only been driven
in places like east anglia

Most modern engines are 120-180k before there is *any* noticeable wear.

Metals are harder, oils are better and machining is to far tighter
tolerances.


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Default Engine Oil top ups (thing of the past maybe?)

On 27/07/2020 14:14, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article
,
Tim+ wrote:
wrote:
On Sunday, 26 July 2020 16:20:19 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 26/07/2020 14:47, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sun, 26 Jul 2020 13:54:42 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Oddly, it can be more so on older engines. Pushrod engines have much
higher loads to the camshaft than modern OHC multi valve types. And a
worn cam may not stop it running, but will reduce the performance and
increase fuel usage.

Judging by the number of drivers I've known that failed to notice their
engine was firing on 3 not 4 cylinders, it might not get noticed ....

Dave is of course talking tosh. The load on the camshaft, all other
things being equal, does not change just because there is a pushrod
involved.

not until you use seriously high racing RPM where the pushrod mass has
some effect, anyway.

How many cars are pushrod nowadays?


Not many, but the new C8 Corvette uses pushrods.


Still quite a few cars on the road with pushrod engines.
I was merely trying to explain why is is a good idea to use the correct
oil for your engine - regardless of age. But if you by a banger and throw
it away every year, it doesn't much matter.

And mixing synthetic oil with mineral oil seems to be a really
silly thing to do. Modern cars run much hotter than they used to
which is why synthetic oils are needed, especially if the car has
a turbo where the oil gets very hot. Mineral oils cannot tolerate
these high temperatures.

Makes you wonder what happens to the waste oil tank at the local
amenity tip. People tip all sorts into this. can't see that
being re-refined and resold.
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Default Engine Oil top ups (thing of the past maybe?)

On Tuesday, 28 July 2020 11:26:45 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:
On Monday, 27 July 2020 14:16:41 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:
On Sunday, 26 July 2020 16:20:19 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 26/07/2020 14:47, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sun, 26 Jul 2020 13:54:42 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Oddly, it can be more so on older engines. Pushrod engines have
much higher loads to the camshaft than modern OHC multi valve
types. And a worn cam may not stop it running, but will reduce
the performance and increase fuel usage.

Judging by the number of drivers I've known that failed to
notice their engine was firing on 3 not 4 cylinders, it might
not get noticed ....

Dave is of course talking tosh. The load on the camshaft, all
other things being equal, does not change just because there is a
pushrod involved.

not until you use seriously high racing RPM where the pushrod mass
has some effect, anyway.

How many cars are pushrod nowadays?

You might ask Turnip why he's talking crap. But only to be expected.
And at various times he's claimed to be an engineer.


He is. You're not.


Even a child who has played with a Meccano set would know there is more
load on the cam of a pushrod engine than an OHC design. It is so
blindingly obvious it takes a real fool to dispute it.


Yes. The question is whether it's significant.

I don't recall any sprung cam mechanism in Meccano.


No surprise you
agree with Turnip.


I see you're making stuff up yet again.


NT
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Default Engine Oil top ups (thing of the past maybe?)

On Tuesday, 28 July 2020 13:40:53 UTC+1, Andrew wrote:
On 27/07/2020 14:14, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:


Still quite a few cars on the road with pushrod engines.
I was merely trying to explain why is is a good idea to use the correct
oil for your engine - regardless of age. But if you by a banger and throw
it away every year, it doesn't much matter.

And mixing synthetic oil with mineral oil seems to be a really
silly thing to do. Modern cars run much hotter than they used to
which is why synthetic oils are needed, especially if the car has
a turbo where the oil gets very hot. Mineral oils cannot tolerate
these high temperatures.

Makes you wonder what happens to the waste oil tank at the local
amenity tip. People tip all sorts into this. can't see that
being re-refined and resold.


Why not, they're all ok for not-too-hot service.


NT
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