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This is an offshoot of the Fritzbox query.

OS is W10 32 bit, and I vaguely recall that the maximum drive size is
2TB so, if I attach an external 4TB hard disk and make 2 x 2TB
partitions, will that work and be usable as two separate 2TB drives? Son
has 64 bit system, so could set up the disk on his PC.
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On 22/07/2020 14:26, Graeme wrote:

This is an offshoot of the Fritzbox query.

OS is W10 32 bit, and I vaguely recall that the maximum drive size is
2TB so, if I attach an external 4TB hard disk and make 2 x 2TB
partitions, will that work and be usable as two separate 2TB drives? Son
has 64 bit system, so could set up the disk on his PC.


I think so. IIRC 32 bit tools will actually be able to partition it ...

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Its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.

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On 22/07/2020 14:26, Graeme wrote:

This is an offshoot of the Fritzbox query.


See follow-up to that query - V7.2 is out with later SMB version support


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Graeme wrote:

OS is W10 32 bit, and I vaguely recall that the maximum drive size is
2TB


With 4kB clusters, the maximum partition size is 16TB, regardless of
whether windows is 32 or 64 bit, but to use a disk larger than 2TB, it
needs to be partitioned as GPT rather than MBR, and if you want the disk
to be bootable you need to have UEFI rather than BIOS.

You can go *much* bigger with larger clusters, but you wouldn't
generally on a home PC.
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In message , Andy Burns
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With 4kB clusters, the maximum partition size is 16TB, regardless of
whether windows is 32 or 64 bit, but to use a disk larger than 2TB, it
needs to be partitioned as GPT rather than MBR, and if you want the
disk to be bootable you need to have UEFI rather than BIOS.


Excellent, thanks. I'm looking at, for example, eBay item 333315265003
which is a Seagate Expansion 4TB 5900 RPM USB 3.0 Desktop Hard Drive,
and Googling tells me I can use Windows to change a disk from MBR to GPT
partition as long as the disk contains no partitions or volumes, so
should be good to go (no need for disk to be bootable). He says,
hopefully.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Seagate-E...USB-3-0-Deskto
p-Hard-Drive-Black/333315265003?epid=153394441&hash=item4d9b2351eb%3A g%3A
Na4AAOSwRtNbiO1G&LH_BIN=1

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On 22/07/2020 16:24, Graeme wrote:
In message , Andy Burns
writes

With 4kB clusters, the maximum partition size is 16TB, regardless of
whether windows is 32 or 64 bit, but to use a disk larger than 2TB, it
needs to be partitioned as GPT rather than MBR, and if you want the
disk to be bootable you need to have UEFI rather than BIOS.


Excellent, thanks.Â* I'm looking at, for example, eBay item 333315265003
which is a Seagate Expansion 4TB 5900 RPM USB 3.0 Desktop Hard Drive,
and Googling tells me I can use Windows to change a disk from MBR to GPT
partition as long as the disk contains no partitions or volumes, so
should be good to go (no need for disk to be bootable).Â* He says,
hopefully.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Seagate-E...USB-3-0-Deskto
p-Hard-Drive-Black/333315265003?epid=153394441&hash=item4d9b2351eb%3A g%3A
Na4AAOSwRtNbiO1G&LH_BIN=1


If you can't partition in windows, then GParted can usually handle it:

https://gparted.org/



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Cheers,

John.

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Default Viewing 4TB hard drive with 32 bit system

In message , John
Rumm writes

If you can't partition in windows, then GParted can usually handle it:

https://gparted.org/


Thanks John. Just noticed that the drive I'm looking at is a fiver
cheaper via Amazon, too.
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Graeme wrote:

This is an offshoot of the Fritzbox query.

OS is W10 32 bit, and I vaguely recall that the maximum drive size is
2TB so, if I attach an external 4TB hard disk and make 2 x 2TB
partitions, will that work and be usable as two separate 2TB drives? Son
has 64 bit system, so could set up the disk on his PC.


The answer is no.

It's got nothing to do with bitness of OSes.

I can write 32 bit code here, where there is an fopen64()
and similar, having 64bit fields for things. In other
words, "large objects" have been supported in software
for some time. I can do that in MinGW32.

However, crusty other layers in the stack, stuff closer to
the hardware, is not easily persuaded. In that layer,
compatibility is favored over extending capability.

*******

There are two partitioning schemes.

Legacy MSDOS (partition table in MBR) 32 bit fields, limit 2.2TB or so
GUID Partition Table (GPT), 128MB partition table 2.2TB possible and easy to do

There is a handler for OSes like Windows XP era,
which is "Acronis Capacity Manager" and driver. It
splits a 4GB disk into two Legacy MSDOS pieces. The driver
declares your single disk as

Disk 2 -------- 2TB of stuff --------
Disk 5 -------- 2TB of stuff --------

That's a kind of cheat, which gives access to the whole
disk, but only the first portion (Disk 2) could be
booted from. Disk 5 is "virtual" but is not labeled
as virtual. But, Disk 5 only "exists" once the
Acronis driver fires up. The MBR for Disk 5 is at
the 2TB mark on the 4TB disk drive.

Now, consider your router with its file serving extension.
What does it know about ? Only Legacy MSDOS. And
maybe FAT32 file systems.

If you use a RaspberryPI or similar device, you can
run various NAS softwares and pretend to be heroic
while doing so. Whereas the poor little router box,
people don't sit around every day making new OSes
for those with extended capabilities. Yes, there
are a few firmwares available, but the resources
inside the router may not be suited to efficient
handling of such chores. If the router has 8MB
of RAM, you can't do Bill Gates tax return on there.

There are even some "powerful" routers, routers
with multiple ARM cores. The problem is still one
of software availability - is the manufacturer clever
or not ? Some manufacturers of routers are so lazy,
they use the firmware the SOC maker produced as
"demo code". Which means not only is the firmware
crap, it might even have easily exploited security
issues.

*******

If I had to place a bet, the 4TB drive connected to the
Fritz box - 2TB will be accessible in some fashion. If
you're lucky enough to have a router with GPT capability,
then the whole thing would be visible and you could
declare a single 4TB partition if you wanted.

Note that a few of the older backup softwares, have a
2.2TB limit on transfers. With the right software,
you'll be able to back up your single 4TB partition.

The next issue would be file system. FAT32/NTFS/ExFat.
The tradition would be FAT32 on such router boxes,
with a 4GB max file size, and some sort of limits
on files and folders. The cluster size makes larger
storage possible. In such cases, you can use the
Ridgecrop formatter, if that's what the router demands
as a file system.

The Ridgecrop formatter can do FAT32 up to 2TB.

http://www.ridgecrop.demon.co.uk/ind...at32format.htm

http://www.ridgecrop.demon.co.uk/dow...at32format.zip

On your PC, the steps would be:

1) Disk Management

2) Create 2TB partition. Format it NTFS or leave it RAW.
What you want at this point, is a "drive letter".
The partition must have a drive letter for the next
step to work.

3) Now, after the Disk Management part is done, you do

fat32format.exe X:

and that puts a very large cluster size of FAT32 on X: for you.
Now, plug the drive into the router.

Windows has a piddly limit for FAT32, if that's what the
router wants. Whereas the Ridgecrop formatter will take
an NTFS partition, make it FAT32, and away you go. Windows
will not offer FAT32 as an option, if a partition is too big.

Some day, you'll be using this 4TB drive for something
else, and then the entire capacity will be your plaything.
For example, the disks I did have "prepped" with Acronis,
I've since converted those to GPT and that works a lot
better in the computer room (cross platform). There's no
Acronis for Linux, and if you do a loopback mount at
a high offset, the Linux driver runs at 10MB/sec, which
is mighty irritating. Switching to GPT (not suitable for
router, good for computers) was my answer.

Paul
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On 22/07/2020 15:23, Andy Burns wrote:
Graeme wrote:

OS is W10 32 bit, and I vaguely recall that the maximum drive size is 2TB


With 4kB clusters, the maximum partition size is 16TB, regardless of
whether windows is 32 or 64 bit, but to use a disk larger than 2TB, it
needs to be partitioned as GPT rather than MBR, and if you want the disk
to be bootable you need to have UEFI rather than BIOS.

You can go *much* bigger with larger clusters, but you wouldn't
generally on a home PC.


For linux fans, I discovered that whilst I could use a partition 2TB
on the host machine, NFS was unable to export it as a networkable drive.
I didn't search further, I just went to 1.9TB....:-)


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In message , Paul
writes
Graeme wrote:
This is an offshoot of the Fritzbox query.
OS is W10 32 bit, and I vaguely recall that the maximum drive size
is 2TB so, if I attach an external 4TB hard disk and make 2 x 2TB
partitions, will that work and be usable as two separate 2TB drives?
Son has 64 bit system, so could set up the disk on his PC.


The answer is no.

It's got nothing to do with bitness of OSes.


Thank you - all of which sounds terrifying.

Having established that I can see and use multiple USB devices attached
to the router, the answer must be to purchase a 2TB drive and, if/when
necessary, add a second 2TB drive.
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On 23/07/2020 07:10, Graeme wrote:
In message , Paul
writes
Graeme wrote:
Â*This is an offshoot of the Fritzbox query.
Â*OS is W10 32 bit, and I vaguely recall that the maximum drive size
isÂ* 2TB so, if I attach an external 4TB hard disk and make 2 x 2TB
partitions, will that work and be usable as two separate 2TB drives?
SonÂ* has 64 bit system, so could set up the disk on his PC.


The answer is no.

It's got nothing to do with bitness of OSes.


Thank you - all of which sounds terrifying.

Having established that I can see and use multiple USB devices attached
to the router, the answer must be to purchase a 2TB drive and, if/when
necessary, add a second 2TB drive.


The answer is of course yes

https://www.diskpart.com/articles/wi...rive-3889.html


--
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Default Viewing 4TB hard drive with 32 bit system

That should work, I'm not sure about the limit since I am sure a friends
drive was over 2tb and I could read it on Windows 7 64bit, but maybe it
depends on how it was prepared.
Brian

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This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
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Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Graeme" wrote in message
...

This is an offshoot of the Fritzbox query.

OS is W10 32 bit, and I vaguely recall that the maximum drive size is 2TB
so, if I attach an external 4TB hard disk and make 2 x 2TB partitions,
will that work and be usable as two separate 2TB drives? Son has 64 bit
system, so could set up the disk on his PC.
--
Graeme



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Graeme wrote:
In message , Paul
writes
Graeme wrote:
This is an offshoot of the Fritzbox query.
OS is W10 32 bit, and I vaguely recall that the maximum drive size
is 2TB so, if I attach an external 4TB hard disk and make 2 x 2TB
partitions, will that work and be usable as two separate 2TB drives?
Son has 64 bit system, so could set up the disk on his PC.


The answer is no.

It's got nothing to do with bitness of OSes.


Thank you - all of which sounds terrifying.

Having established that I can see and use multiple USB devices attached
to the router, the answer must be to purchase a 2TB drive and, if/when
necessary, add a second 2TB drive.


Well, I wouldn't panic :-)

Here's an example of a page for a Fritzbox. Using
your model number, you might track down similar.
I have a feeling this is a relatively recent
product, not an oldie.

https://en.avm.de/service/fritzbox/f...-to-FRITZ-Box/

They do provide a bit of size info in the example.
Using your model number, maybe there's a page for
yours as well.

Your USB-based enclosure has a size limit too. Normally,
this isn't really a limit, it's the manufacturer
stating "oh, yeah, we tested it with an 8TB drive and
it worked". Such an assurance is handy before you buy
your drive. On some products, you can find a USB
enclosure web page, which has been updated a couple
of times with new size information for the enclosure.

Both the USB enclosure and the Fritzbox have limits,
and you check both for a good nights sleep. So far here,
I've only tested up to 6TB on the enclosure, and mine worked OK.

There are some single-disk BYOD NAS boxes, which have
really weird limits. Like the documentation will say
"no more than 280GB drive". And you're left wondering
"where the hell do they dig up these weird limits?".
Occasionally, you'll find some head-scratchers like that.

Paul
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Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
I just tried to access a 2tb drive on an XP 32 bit machine and it was having
none of it, go away it said, but in that wonderful Microsoft non specific
way. grin.
Brian


Check to see if the disk is online.

*******

C:\ diskpart

Microsoft DiskPart version 5.1.3565 === Windows XP

Copyright (C) 1999-2003 Microsoft Corporation.
On computer: BOB

DISKPART list disk

Disk ### Status Size Free Dyn Gpt
-------- ---------- ------- ------- --- ---
Disk 0 Online 466 GB 0 B === my 500GB drive
Disk 1 Online 932 GB 0 B === my 1TB drive
Disk 2 Online 1863 GB 879 MB === my 2TB drive
Disk 3 Online 4080 MB 0 B === tiny RAMDisk

DISKPART exit

*******

Paul


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Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
That should work, I'm not sure about the limit since I am sure a friends
drive was over 2tb and I could read it on Windows 7 64bit, but maybe it
depends on how it was prepared.
Brian


That is GPT partitioned and the entire drive can then
be one big partition. My 6TB backup drive features
a single 6TB partition. And it works on Vista+ .

To see the partition type used (legacy MSDOS partition
or GUID Partition Table GPT partition), Microsoft
makes it a bit of a nuisance. You can do Properties
on the item in a row of Disk Management, but you have
to select the correct tab in Properties to see GPT.

An excellent utility, is disktype.

http://disktype.sourceforge.net/

I use the Cygwin version, an EXE and two Cygwin DLLs.
And that runs in WinXP too.

disktype.exe /dev/sda # as Administrator, disk identifiers are
# in Disk Management row order, sda is the
# first drive in the table.

Another tool that can scan a drive, but is a
royal pain to use, is Testdisk. I use it for everything
except the intended purpose. For example, today, I copied
the contents of the ESP (boot files) off a drive, for
examination on a second computer. This is useful for
some forms of boot problems. I would not be able to get
at those boot files, without that tool.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TestDisk

https://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/TestDisk

We're still decades away from "intelligent assistants".

Like, just figuring out whether a disk is "online"
or "offline", that's a nuisance. If you put a disk
"offline", in an effort to Safely Remove, you have
to remember to change the status back and put it
"Online" again the next time. Otherwise, it'll stay
in Offline state forever.

Paul
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On 23/07/2020 07:53, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 23/07/2020 07:10, Graeme wrote:
In message , Paul
writes
Graeme wrote:
Â*This is an offshoot of the Fritzbox query.
Â*OS is W10 32 bit, and I vaguely recall that the maximum drive size
isÂ* 2TB so, if I attach an external 4TB hard disk and make 2 x 2TB
partitions, will that work and be usable as two separate 2TB drives?
SonÂ* has 64 bit system, so could set up the disk on his PC.

The answer is no.

It's got nothing to do with bitness of OSes.


Thank you - all of which sounds terrifying.

Having established that I can see and use multiple USB devices
attached to the router, the answer must be to purchase a 2TB drive
and, if/when necessary, add a second 2TB drive.


The answer is of course yes

https://www.diskpart.com/articles/wi...rive-3889.html



That's a yes to part of the question... yes windows can handle 4TB,
however we are talking about a device acting as a NAS providing said
space as a network share. That requires rather more than just the final
client OS getting it right.

(although to be fair the Fritzbox does seem to be pretty competent and
flexible from what little I have read)


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John.

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John Rumm wrote:

however we are talking about a device acting as a NAS providing said
space as a network share.


Are we? I thought the discussion had moved on to direct connection to a
windows PC ...
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In message , Andy Burns
writes
John Rumm wrote:

however we are talking about a device acting as a NAS providing said
space as a network share.


Are we? I thought the discussion had moved on to direct connection to
a windows PC ...


Sorry! Doubtless me causing confusion. Current situation is a Toshiba
1TB USB powered drive (not SSD) is attached to the router (Fritzbox),
together with two USB sticks, via a USB splitter. I can see, and have
mapped, all three, which I access from my laptop, using wi-fi. The USB
sticks are only there to see if I can access them.

Laptop is running W10 32 bit and, this is where I am still unclear, if I
buy a 4TB drive and plug it into the router, am I likely to be able to
see, access and generally use it via my laptop? A drive is 80-90
pounds, so I don't want to buy one with fingers crossed. Perhaps I
should buy a 2TB drive and add a second 2TB drive in the future, if
required.
--
Graeme
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Graeme wrote:
In message , Andy Burns
writes
John Rumm wrote:

however we are talking about a device acting as a NAS providing said
space as a network share.


Are we? I thought the discussion had moved on to direct connection to
a windows PC ...


Sorry! Doubtless me causing confusion. Current situation is a Toshiba
1TB USB powered drive (not SSD) is attached to the router (Fritzbox),
together with two USB sticks, via a USB splitter. I can see, and have
mapped, all three, which I access from my laptop, using wi-fi. The USB
sticks are only there to see if I can access them.

Laptop is running W10 32 bit and, this is where I am still unclear, if I
buy a 4TB drive and plug it into the router, am I likely to be able to
see, access and generally use it via my laptop? A drive is 80-90
pounds, so I don't want to buy one with fingers crossed. Perhaps I
should buy a 2TB drive and add a second 2TB drive in the future, if
required.


Fritzbox Model Number ???

Paul


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Graeme wrote:

if I
buy a 4TB drive and plug it into the router, am I likely to be able to
see, access and generally use it via my laptop?


Assuming all fritz!boxen have the same support, the 4TB disk with
maximum 4 partitions (which suggests only MBR rather than GPT support to
me, if so you'd need to format it as 2x2TB)

https://en.avm.de/service/fritzbox/fritzbox-7360/knowledge-base/publication/show/91_USB-storage-device-cannot-be-or-can-only-be-partly-integrated-by-the-FRITZ-Box/
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In message , Paul
writes
Graeme wrote:
Laptop is running W10 32 bit and, this is where I am still unclear,
if I buy a 4TB drive and plug it into the router, am I likely to be
able to see, access and generally use it via my laptop? A drive is
80-90 pounds, so I don't want to buy one with fingers crossed.
Perhaps I should buy a 2TB drive and add a second 2TB drive in the
future, if required.


Fritzbox Model Number ???


7530 PN

Not sure what the PN means.
--
Graeme
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Andy Burns wrote:
Graeme wrote:

if I buy a 4TB drive and plug it into the router, am I likely to be
able to see, access and generally use it via my laptop?


Assuming all fritz!boxen have the same support, the 4TB disk with
maximum 4 partitions (which suggests only MBR rather than GPT support to
me, if so you'd need to format it as 2x2TB)

https://en.avm.de/service/fritzbox/fritzbox-7360/knowledge-base/publication/show/91_USB-storage-device-cannot-be-or-can-only-be-partly-integrated-by-the-FRITZ-Box/


I tried crafting a link by replacing the 7360 with 7530 and
it was accepted.

https://en.avm.de/service/fritzbox/f...the-FRITZ-Box/

"The FRITZ!Box supports:

USB storage devices with a maximum of four partitions,

Partitions up to 4 terabytes in size,

The file systems NTFS, FAT/FAT32 and ext2/ext3/ext4.
"

Now, there's something wrong with that, because it implies
GPT support. You could test GPT support with a much
smaller test device, and see whether it "eats it" or not.

The limitation of four partitions is strange too, seeing
as that is a Legacy MSDOS partitioning limit for primary
partitions. But Legacy MSDOS can have more than four total,
by using Extended/Logical for the excess.

A GPT partitioned disk has:

1) First partition of type 0xEE, sized to cover
the whole disk. So the partition size declared
would be 2TB (max size as far as legacy MSDOS is
concerned). This is the protective partition declaration,
to prevent MSDOS machines from messing around with
the disk. Strictly speaking this is optional, but it's
provided more or less standard when setting up a disk
this [GPT] way.

2) 128MB partition table storage area, not visible
to all Windows utilities.

3) Once that amount of stuff is set up, then you can
declare a single entry in (2) partition table area describing
a 4TB partition if you want.

It's just a surprise that a FritzBox would understand
such a thing, as typical router-boxes-with-file-serving
are only MBR partitioned and support stuff
like FAT32 (because at the time, it was "free" or nearly so).

A disk doesn't have to be 4TB in size to be "prepared the
GPT way". Smaller disks will work for a test. GPT disks
can be prepared in Vista/W7/W8/W10. The only ugly bit, is
I find sometimes when you try and remove GPT from the disk,
later on utilities will insist it's still GPT when
it is not. It can require a bit of "erasing work" to knock
some sense into it.

Paul


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SINO DRILLS--striking bar, extension rod, button bit, cross bit, chisel bit, DTH hammer and bit, integral drill rod, tapered rod, thread bit, tapered bit, shank adapter, ODS( ODEX, TUBEX), mine lamp [email protected] Home Ownership 0 October 10th 06 09:19 AM
SINO DRILLS--striking bar, extension rod, button bit, cross bit, chisel bit, DTH hammer and bit, integral drill rod, tapered rod, thread bit, tapered bit, shank adapter, ODS( ODEX, TUBEX), mine lamp [email protected] Home Ownership 0 September 29th 06 03:56 AM
drill bit,drill rod,core barrel,core drilling tools, drill tube, DTH hammer and bit, drag bit, thread bit, taper bit,taper rod,integral drill rod,drill steel, button bit, shank adapter,extension rod, speed rod, rock drill, handheld ,pneumatic, motor- [email protected] Home Ownership 0 September 19th 06 04:57 AM
Rock drilling tools--DTH hammer and bit, open pit, surface, underground ming, quarrying, tunnelling equipment, drill rod, drag bit, taper rod,taper bit, water well drilling, button bit, thread bit, shank adapter for rock drills, drill tube, drill pip [email protected] Home Ownership 0 September 13th 06 10:50 AM
Underground, quarrying, mining, air-leg, jack-leg, hand-held rock drills, button bit, drag bits,drill rod, drill tube, drill bit, core bit, core barrel, diamonde core bit, DTH hammer, taper rod, integral drill rod, taper bit, rock drilling tools wangsbin Woodturning 0 September 1st 06 08:34 AM


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