Hi,

not sure if the right group, but here goes anyway:

We are first time buyers and have had an offer accepted on a house,
and both ourselves and the vendor are after a "quick" sale. Both are
chain free.

My question is this:

What sort of timetable would be a quick sale? When should I start
hassling solicitors and surveyers and the vendors?

Anyone with a rough timescale for the next few weeks??

thanks,

J

"jah_aaa" wrote in message
om...
Hi,

not sure if the right group, but here goes anyway:

We are first time buyers and have had an offer accepted on a house,
and both ourselves and the vendor are after a "quick" sale. Both are
chain free.

My question is this:

What sort of timetable would be a quick sale? When should I start
hassling solicitors and surveyers and the vendors?


I was in a similar position 2 years ago. Our quick sale lasted about 3mths!
by the time the legal people get involved...

seriously, how it should work...

week 0 - get the cash ready - get an agreement in principle. I was able to
do this before putting in any offers anywhere.


PUT IN THE OFFER, then:

week 1, get the surveyers in if you can or at least asap.

As soon as he has been in call him and get a feel for the report.

If it sounds ok then contact the legal guy and start getting the searches
done. don't be tempted to do this the other way around as if you don't like
the survey then you don't want to waste cash on searches on something you
are not going to buy.

Things to think about: Is it a share of freehold? are there management
companies invloved. Find out who they are and do a search of companies house
to see if they have been doing their filings and who the sectary is.

week 2 leave the laywer to get on with things while you sort out the cash -
chase the mortage company make sure it is all in place. Do another viewing.
Still want it? make sure you do before it is too late...!

week 3 - chase laywer (I did this on an almost daily basis), how are the
searches doing, is everything ok? exchange contracts.

week 4 - goto laywer and get him to arrange cash transfer on completion in
that week. complete

In reality, you will spend weeks 3 - 10 sorting out problems from the
survey, boundry disputes, the mortage company who has lost your paperwork,
the management company who has not filled any companies house returns,
getting it written into the contract that white goods are left in place,
delays in the searches ...it just goes on....

Anyone with a rough timescale for the next few weeks??

you're thinking you can plan this!?!?!?!!!!!



thanks,

J

"jah_aaa" wrote in message
om...
Hi,

not sure if the right group, but here goes anyway:

We are first time buyers and have had an offer accepted on a house,
and both ourselves and the vendor are after a "quick" sale. Both are
chain free.

My question is this:

What sort of timetable would be a quick sale? When should I start
hassling solicitors and surveyers and the vendors?

Anyone with a rough timescale for the next few weeks??

thanks,

J

You need to arrange,
Mortgage,
Survey,
Solicitor / conveyancer property searches.
Your biggest problem will be the solicitors they will be slow, not do
exactly what you want or just ignore you. if feel you have the choice use a
conveyancer. Because you are both chain free providing there are no hidden
problems with the house, either legally or building wise theoretically it
could be done in a couple of days. however a month or two minimum is more
likely.

The Q

In article , jah_aaa
writes
Hi,

not sure if the right group, but here goes anyway:

We are first time buyers and have had an offer accepted on a house,
and both ourselves and the vendor are after a "quick" sale. Both are
chain free.

My question is this:

What sort of timetable would be a quick sale? When should I start
hassling solicitors and surveyers and the vendors?

Anyone with a rough timescale for the next few weeks??

thanks,

J

As long as it takes. Bear in mind your up against the legal profession
not noted for their excellent "drop-what-were-doin-and-run-around-after
you-now-this-instant" mentality.

Fortunately you aren't in the chain gang though.

Don't ever get excited until you have the keys in yr hot sweaty palm:-)
--
Tony Sayer

jah_aaa wrote:
Hi,

not sure if the right group, but here goes anyway:

We are first time buyers and have had an offer accepted on a house,
and both ourselves and the vendor are after a "quick" sale. Both are
chain free.

My question is this:

What sort of timetable would be a quick sale? When should I start
hassling solicitors and surveyers and the vendors?

Anyone with a rough timescale for the next few weeks??

thanks,

J
The quickest I've ever had to exchange (which is what matters) is 6 weeks
but that was for a brand new house..

"Scott Mills" wrote in message
news:uLp1c.376$54.250@newsfe1-win...

seriously, how it should work...

week 0 - get the cash ready - get an agreement in principle. I was able to
do this before putting in any offers anywhere.


PUT IN THE OFFER, then:

week 1, get the surveyers in if you can or at least asap.

As soon as he has been in call him and get a feel for the report.

If it sounds ok then contact the legal guy and start getting the searches
done. don't be tempted to do this the other way around as if you don't
like
the survey then you don't want to waste cash on searches on something you
are not going to buy.

Things to think about: Is it a share of freehold? are there management
companies invloved. Find out who they are and do a search of companies
house
to see if they have been doing their filings and who the sectary is.

week 2 leave the laywer to get on with things while you sort out the
cash -
chase the mortage company make sure it is all in place. Do another
viewing.
Still want it? make sure you do before it is too late...!

week 3 - chase laywer (I did this on an almost daily basis), how are the
searches doing, is everything ok? exchange contracts.

week 4 - goto laywer and get him to arrange cash transfer on completion in
that week. complete

In reality, you will spend weeks 3 - 10 sorting out problems from the
survey, boundry disputes, the mortage company who has lost your paperwork,
the management company who has not filled any companies house returns,
getting it written into the contract that white goods are left in place,
delays in the searches ...it just goes on....

Anyone with a rough timescale for the next few weeks??

you're thinking you can plan this!?!?!?!!!!!


week 5-55 , realise that there is a 10 layer deep chain on the house that
you want to buy, wait for another year before the chain eventually gets
sorted because the lady you're buying from eventually buys a third property
because the first two she woul have bought were chained from here to kingdom
come.

Been there, done that....


/Morten



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.605 / Virus Database: 385 - Release Date: 01/03/2004

We are first time buyers and have had an offer accepted on a house,
and both ourselves and the vendor are after a "quick" sale. Both are
chain free.

My question is this:

What sort of timetable would be a quick sale? When should I start
hassling solicitors and surveyers and the vendors?

Anyone with a rough timescale for the next few weeks??

I just bought a house too. The owners had died, so no problems there.
I had already sold my last house and was renting, so no problems
there. I didn't need to get a mortgage, so no building society
problems . The survey was simple.

And it took three months to happen. I used a conveyancer, not a
solicitor but that was just chance. There seems to be a consensus that
the conveyancer/solicitor is the holdup.

Mine did nothing until I hit the roof. And then she did one thing and
then nothing more until I hit the roof. Repeat to fade...

I suppose the thing to do is to ask the solicitor for a time scale
before you take them on, though in my experience they will tell you
what you want to hear. Pah!

The time before, I did my own conveyancing and that was much less
stressful though there is lots of paper shuffling to do

Anna

--
~~ Anna Kettle, Suffolk, England
|""""| ~ Lime plasterwork, plaster conservation
/ ^^ \ // Freehand modelling and pargeting
|____| www.kettlenet.co.uk 07976 649862

"jah_aaa" wrote in message
om...
| Hi,
|
| not sure if the right group, but here goes anyway:
|
| We are first time buyers and have had an offer accepted on a house,
| and both ourselves and the vendor are after a "quick" sale. Both are
| chain free.
|
| My question is this:
|
| What sort of timetable would be a quick sale? When should I start
| hassling solicitors and surveyers and the vendors?
|
| Anyone with a rough timescale for the next few weeks??
|
| thanks,
|
| J


Hi there,

We're in a similar position to you - we're first time buyers, and are buying
a house that is vacant, and has no chain.

We made the offer a few weeks ago, it was accepted, and we got our bank to
process the details, and to book the survey. The mortgage loan agreement
forms came about 5 days later, and we signed and returned these. In this
time, the surveyor went around to the house to do the Homebuyer Survey, and
I got my mum to pick up the report the following day. Once we had the
report, we told our solicitor that we wanted the house, and to get on with
it.

We paid for the searches in cash, and these searches were put in place on
Monday. We've been told that this can take 2 to 3 weeks to be completed,
then we'll be paying the solicitor a visit to sort everything out. I'm
hoping this all goes as quick as possible, but I'm not hopeful.

I just want the house now, as we've put down plenty of money for searches
and surveys etc... I hate the fact that after all this money spent, we
don't have any right to the house yet. :-( I've just god bad visions of
someone coming in and making a much higher offer.

Ste

In article , tony sayer
writes
As long as it takes. Bear in mind your up against the legal profession
not noted for their excellent "drop-what-were-doin-and-run-around-after
you-now-this-instant" mentality.


And how. When I was buying this place, the vendor rang the agents (who
then rang me) 6 weeks after I had put in the offer asking why I wasn't
getting a move on with the sale. The reason I wasn't getting a move on
was because the vendors solicitors hadn't even made first contact with
my conveyancers, even allowing for Christmas/New year, it thought this
was a bit on the slow side.


Adrian
--
To Reply :
replace "news" with "adrian" and "nospam" with "ffoil"
Sorry for the rigmarole, If I want spam, I'll go to the shops
Every time someone says "I don't believe in trolls", another one dies.

jah_aaa wrote in message
om...
Hi,

not sure if the right group, but here goes anyway:

We are first time buyers and have had an offer accepted on a house,
and both ourselves and the vendor are after a "quick" sale. Both are
chain free.

My question is this:

What sort of timetable would be a quick sale? When should I start
hassling solicitors and surveyers and the vendors?

Anyone with a rough timescale for the next few weeks??

thanks,

J

I made a cash offer first week of Jan. We hope to exchange this week. No
particular problems, just bits and pieces delay matters. Vendor already has
somewhere to go and wants the money so no chain involved. My advice is to
maintain contact with the vendor and tell him/her what your solicitor says
is the reason he can't exchange. Keep the solicitors on their toes and if
there's a problem ask if there's a way around it.

Tres.

"jah_aaa" wrote in message
om...
Hi,

not sure if the right group, but here goes anyway:

We are first time buyers and have had an offer accepted on a house,
and both ourselves and the vendor are after a "quick" sale. Both are
chain free.

My question is this:

What sort of timetable would be a quick sale? When should I start
hassling solicitors and surveyers and the vendors?

Anyone with a rough timescale for the next few weeks??

thanks,

J

Between lawyers, searches and mortgage companies even quick sales can drag
on....

Get your mortgage agreed in principle and sorted out as quickly as you can -
you can lean on your solicitor to speed them up a bit, but you have no such
leverage over a huge mortgage company. Mine dragged on for ages - £200k for
a first time buyer's mortgage apparently raised eyebrows and had to go
through several authorisation hoops at head office (which, of course, the
people dealing with me neglected to mention at the outset).

You don't say where you are, but if you are in W or NW London area email me,
I can put you in touch with an unusually quick & sharp solicitor.

--
Richard Sampson

email me at
richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk

"RichardS" noaccess@invalid wrote in message
. ..
"jah_aaa" wrote in message
om...
Hi,

not sure if the right group, but here goes anyway:

We are first time buyers and have had an offer accepted on a house,
and both ourselves and the vendor are after a "quick" sale. Both are
chain free.

My question is this:

What sort of timetable would be a quick sale? When should I start
hassling solicitors and surveyers and the vendors?

Anyone with a rough timescale for the next few weeks??

thanks,

J

Between lawyers, searches and mortgage companies even quick sales can drag
on....

Get your mortgage agreed in principle and sorted out as quickly as you
can -
you can lean on your solicitor to speed them up a bit, but you have no
such
leverage over a huge mortgage company. Mine dragged on for ages - £200k
for
a first time buyer's mortgage apparently raised eyebrows and had to go
through several authorisation hoops at head office (which, of course, the
people dealing with me neglected to mention at the outset).

You don't say where you are, but if you are in W or NW London area email
me,
I can put you in touch with an unusually quick & sharp solicitor.

--
Richard Sampson

email me at
richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk


First time buyer in Scotland, saw house, liked it, went rount to solicitor
and told him to put in offer which he did that day, closing date was set for
4 days from then as more people had been interested, got call from solicitor
on closing date to tell me offer had been accepted, next day went to
solicitors office and signed the neccesery forms, 5 days later sellers
signed their side of the paperwork, agreeing on a move in date of 4 weeks
from then, from that moment on the contract is signed ansd sealed so the
sellers cannot accept a bigger offer, basicly the deal was done within 10-14
days of me seeing the house.
Why is the English property selling system so open to abuse?
Why dont they change it?

Drew

In article , Drew
writes

"RichardS" noaccess@invalid wrote in message
...
"jah_aaa" wrote in message
om...
Hi,

not sure if the right group, but here goes anyway:

We are first time buyers and have had an offer accepted on a house,
and both ourselves and the vendor are after a "quick" sale. Both are
chain free.

My question is this:

What sort of timetable would be a quick sale? When should I start
hassling solicitors and surveyers and the vendors?

Anyone with a rough timescale for the next few weeks??

thanks,

J

Between lawyers, searches and mortgage companies even quick sales can drag
on....

Get your mortgage agreed in principle and sorted out as quickly as you
can -
you can lean on your solicitor to speed them up a bit, but you have no
such
leverage over a huge mortgage company. Mine dragged on for ages - £200k
for
a first time buyer's mortgage apparently raised eyebrows and had to go
through several authorisation hoops at head office (which, of course, the
people dealing with me neglected to mention at the outset).

You don't say where you are, but if you are in W or NW London area email
me,
I can put you in touch with an unusually quick & sharp solicitor.

--
Richard Sampson

email me at
richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk


First time buyer in Scotland, saw house, liked it, went rount to solicitor
and told him to put in offer which he did that day, closing date was set for
4 days from then as more people had been interested, got call from solicitor
on closing date to tell me offer had been accepted, next day went to
solicitors office and signed the neccesery forms, 5 days later sellers
signed their side of the paperwork, agreeing on a move in date of 4 weeks
from then, from that moment on the contract is signed ansd sealed so the
sellers cannot accept a bigger offer, basicly the deal was done within 10-14
days of me seeing the house.
Why is the English property selling system so open to abuse?
Why dont they change it?

Drew



Good point. Why not?...
--
Tony Sayer

"Anna Kettle" wrote in message
...
We are first time buyers and have had an offer accepted on a house,
and both ourselves and the vendor are after a "quick" sale. Both are
chain free.

My question is this:

What sort of timetable would be a quick sale? When should I start
hassling solicitors and surveyers and the vendors?

Anyone with a rough timescale for the next few weeks??

I just bought a house too. The owners had died, so no problems there.
I had already sold my last house and was renting, so no problems
there. I didn't need to get a mortgage, so no building society
problems . The survey was simple.

And it took three months to happen. I used a conveyancer, not a
solicitor but that was just chance. There seems to be a consensus that
the conveyancer/solicitor is the holdup.

Mine did nothing until I hit the roof. And then she did one thing and
then nothing more until I hit the roof. Repeat to fade...

I suppose the thing to do is to ask the solicitor for a time scale
before you take them on, though in my experience they will tell you
what you want to hear. Pah!

The time before, I did my own conveyancing and that was much less
stressful though there is lots of paper shuffling to do


When I moved in 2001 I asked the estate agent who sold our flat to
suggest a solictor who would answer my calls and do the work promptly
and accurately. The guy he suggested did exactly that and the move was
almost stress-free, contrasting wildly with the time in 1997 when I used
the cheapest solicitor, and paid for it.

Yes, it was more expensive to use this guy because he takes on fewer
clients, but the extra was well worth it.

The estate agents are dealing with solicitors constantly and so they
should know who is good, who is sloppy and who plays golf in the office.

Regards

Neil

tony sayer wrote:
In article , Drew
writes

"RichardS" noaccess@invalid wrote in message
. ..
"jah_aaa" wrote in message
om...
Hi,

not sure if the right group, but here goes anyway:

We are first time buyers and have had an offer accepted on a house,
and both ourselves and the vendor are after a "quick" sale. Both
are chain free.

My question is this:

What sort of timetable would be a quick sale? When should I start
hassling solicitors and surveyers and the vendors?

Anyone with a rough timescale for the next few weeks??

thanks,

J

Between lawyers, searches and mortgage companies even quick sales
can drag on....

Get your mortgage agreed in principle and sorted out as quickly as
you can - you can lean on your solicitor to speed them up a bit,
but you have no such leverage over a huge mortgage company. Mine
dragged on for ages - £200k for a first time buyer's mortgage
apparently raised eyebrows and had to go through several
authorisation hoops at head office (which, of course, the people
dealing with me neglected to mention at the outset).

You don't say where you are, but if you are in W or NW London area
email me, I can put you in touch with an unusually quick & sharp
solicitor.

--
Richard Sampson

email me at
richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk


First time buyer in Scotland, saw house, liked it, went rount to
solicitor and told him to put in offer which he did that day,
closing date was set for 4 days from then as more people had been
interested, got call from solicitor on closing date to tell me offer
had been accepted, next day went to solicitors office and signed the
neccesery forms, 5 days later sellers signed their side of the
paperwork, agreeing on a move in date of 4 weeks from then, from
that moment on the contract is signed ansd sealed so the sellers
cannot accept a bigger offer, basicly the deal was done within 10-14
days of me seeing the house.
Why is the English property selling system so open to abuse?
Why dont they change it?

Drew



Good point. Why not?...

Doesn't the Scottish system require surveys to be done prior to offer? Or
is it that the agreement to purchase (which is binding) can be broken if the
survey throws up a problem?

Also, because of the Scottish system of sealed bids, you commonly have to
bid signficantly more than the asking price to try and get it. Potentially
you could bid 25% more than someone if you thought/were advised that most
would offer 20% more and then find that the only other person offered 10%
more. Depending on the deadline for offers, you could be sitting around for
2 weeks or so to hear if your bid is accepted. In this country, you can
generally get a response in a day or so letting you know either to increase
your offer, or consider other properties.

At least in this system you have a price and you're reasonably sure you can
get it for that price (or less). Rarely does the price go over the asking
price, unless it gets into a silly bidding battle increasing the price above
the asking price - which I don't think is that common.

Whilst our system has its problems, from what I've heard, the Scottish
system isn't favoured by everyone - even some Scots. I've also heard that
more and more get-out clauses are being added making it far easier for
someone to pull out - making it similar to the English method.

David

"Neil Jones" wrote in message



"Anna Kettle" wrote in message
...
We are first time buyers and have had an offer accepted on a house,
and both ourselves and the vendor are after a "quick" sale. Both are
chain free.

My question is this:

What sort of timetable would be a quick sale? When should I start
hassling solicitors and surveyers and the vendors?

Anyone with a rough timescale for the next few weeks??

I just bought a house too. The owners had died,and was buried under the floorboards
but I have friends on uk.diy so no problems there.

I had already sold my last house and was renting, so no problems
there. I didn't need to get a mortgage, so no building society
problems.

The survey was simple, I just got someone as unKev-in
-the-Cloud-like as possible.


And it took three months to happen. I used a conveyancer, not a
solicitor but that was just chance. There seems to be a consensus that
the conveyancer/solicitor is the holdup.

I believe they get to hold YOUR money in THEIR bank.

(Just casting aspersions here, mind you, I did hear in the slump Maggie
caused such bods were topping theirselves LR&C)

When I moved in 2001 I asked the estate agent who sold our flat to
suggest a solictor...

snipped to make Mailgate send this damned post.

(I'm only allowed so much quote per reply line.)

Yes, it was more expensive to use this guy because he takes on fewer
clients, but the extra was well worth it.

(Hence the insertion of spurious spacing.)

You found an honest one? No wonder he had time to look after you.




Now what I need to do is lose this epic somewhere in the great
out-there.


--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

snipped to make Mailgate send this damned post.
Now what I need to do is lose this epic somewhere in the great
out-there.

Bloody hell that was hard work!


--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

On Thu, 4 Mar 2004 09:53:15 -0000, "Drew"
wrote:

First time buyer in Scotland, saw house, liked it, went rount to solicitor
and told him to put in offer which he did that day, closing date was set for
4 days from then as more people had been interested, got call from solicitor
on closing date to tell me offer had been accepted, next day went to
solicitors office and signed the neccesery forms, 5 days later sellers
signed their side of the paperwork, agreeing on a move in date of 4 weeks
from then, from that moment on the contract is signed ansd sealed so the
sellers cannot accept a bigger offer, basicly the deal was done within 10-14
days of me seeing the house.
Why is the English property selling system so open to abuse?
Why dont they change it?

The Scottish system is not perfect. Buyers generally have to pay for
surveys with no guarantee of clinching the sale. When chains cannot be
linked neatly, someone has to either bridge or move into temporary
accommodation. On the positive side, it is a breath of fresh air to buy a
house there and know with about 99% certainty that the accepted offer and
agreed date will stand. Vendors usually don't waste everyone's time and
effort putting houses on the market just to see if they get a nice offer and
then and only then actually think about looking themselves.

The English system makes lots of money for everyone involved in the
prevarication.

--
Where the heck is the ANY key?

Mail john rather than nospam...

David Hearn wrote:

Doesn't the Scottish system require surveys to be done prior to offer?

Not as such. The traditional method did in fact involve potential
buyers doing surveys first and then making a virtually unconditional
offer, taking a risk of having wasted the survey fee if someone else's
offer is accepted instead, and the risk is of course greater the more
buyers are bidding for one property.

Or
is it that the agreement to purchase (which is binding) can be broken if
the survey throws up a problem?

It doesn't work like that. Once an agreement is in place (i.e. an
unconditional offer has been unconditionally accepted), then that's
that. It can be broken, but then severe penalties come into play.

In fact all offers are and have always been conditional, with a
long list of ifs and buts, most of them standard and uncontroversial,
but the practice has been catching on of slipping a satisfactory survey
in as one of the conditions. Such offers are pretty well incapable of
being unconditionally accepted, but what tends to happen is that they
can be accepted subject to the condition being deleted. This then gives
the buyer a day in which to get the survey done and make up his mind,
and modify his offer by deleting the condition.

This tends to work well if you're the only buyer in the running.
For when a closing date for competitive bidding is set, the competing
offers may have deadlines for acceptance on them, and a seller will
obviously give preference to a higher but conditional offer over a
lower unconditional one only if the perceived risk of losing both
is low.

There is also the "Surveys On Line" scheme where the survey is
initially commissioned by the seller, and the buyers can buy a
copy cheaply if they agree to pay the full price if they buy the
property. But this is the more expensive homebuyer's report. If
you only want a basic valuation and cursory inspection, you may as
well pay for it.

Also, because of the Scottish system of sealed bids, you commonly have to
bid signficantly more than the asking price to try and get it.

That's OK. You bid what you think it's worth.

Depending on the deadline for offers, you could be sitting around
for 2 weeks or so to hear if your bid is accepted.

Unlikely. You can put an acceptance deadline on your offer, and
if the offer is high enough, the seller is under pressure either to
wait around for a higher one or to accept. Often he'll accept on
the spot, or, if enough other interest has been expressed, announce
an early closing date.

In this country, you can
generally get a response in a day or so letting you know either to
increase your offer, or consider other properties.

That is normal here too.

Good point. Why not?...

Doesn't the Scottish system require surveys to be done prior to offer? Or
is it that the agreement to purchase (which is binding) can be broken if
the
survey throws up a problem?

Also, because of the Scottish system of sealed bids, you commonly have to
bid signficantly more than the asking price to try and get it.
Potentially
you could bid 25% more than someone if you thought/were advised that most
would offer 20% more and then find that the only other person offered 10%
more. Depending on the deadline for offers, you could be sitting around
for
2 weeks or so to hear if your bid is accepted. In this country, you can
generally get a response in a day or so letting you know either to
increase
your offer, or consider other properties.

At least in this system you have a price and you're reasonably sure you
can
get it for that price (or less). Rarely does the price go over the asking
price, unless it gets into a silly bidding battle increasing the price
above
the asking price - which I don't think is that common.

Whilst our system has its problems, from what I've heard, the Scottish
system isn't favoured by everyone - even some Scots. I've also heard that
more and more get-out clauses are being added making it far easier for
someone to pull out - making it similar to the English method.

David


I am not an expert, just relaying my experience,
As far as i know you dont need a survey prior to offer and presumably the
agreement to purchase wording can be changed, your point on having to bid
more than the asking price is a valid one, it is very scary.

I did not know the asking prices in England was close to what you generly
pay, up here yo have to go quite a bit over to have a chance, 30% is not
uncommon.
The Scottish system tends to be favoured by sellers and hated by buyers.

Yes, get out clauses are being added (mainly by English, Welsh and foreign
buyers) but you run the risk of your offer being rejected if you have too
many and another offer has fewer or none.

Drew

Drew wrote:
Good point. Why not?...

Doesn't the Scottish system require surveys to be done prior to
offer? Or is it that the agreement to purchase (which is binding)
can be broken if the survey throws up a problem?

Also, because of the Scottish system of sealed bids, you commonly
have to bid signficantly more than the asking price to try and get
it. Potentially you could bid 25% more than someone if you
thought/were advised that most would offer 20% more and then find
that the only other person offered 10% more. Depending on the
deadline for offers, you could be sitting around for 2 weeks or so
to hear if your bid is accepted. In this country, you can generally
get a response in a day or so letting you know either to increase
your offer, or consider other properties.

At least in this system you have a price and you're reasonably sure
you can get it for that price (or less). Rarely does the price go
over the asking price, unless it gets into a silly bidding battle
increasing the price above the asking price - which I don't think is
that common.

Whilst our system has its problems, from what I've heard, the
Scottish system isn't favoured by everyone - even some Scots. I've
also heard that more and more get-out clauses are being added making
it far easier for someone to pull out - making it similar to the
English method.

David


I am not an expert, just relaying my experience,
As far as i know you dont need a survey prior to offer and
presumably the agreement to purchase wording can be changed, your
point on having to bid more than the asking price is a valid one, it
is very scary.

I did not know the asking prices in England was close to what you
generly pay, up here yo have to go quite a bit over to have a chance,
30% is not uncommon.
The Scottish system tends to be favoured by sellers and hated by
buyers.

Yes, we got a leaflet through our door from Foxtons saying that they, on
average, get 98% of the asking price - showing it as a good reason to go
with them.

David

David Hearn wrote:

Yes, we got a leaflet through our door from Foxtons saying that they, on
average, get 98% of the asking price - showing it as a good reason to go
with them.

That's a pretty meaningless statistic if there's a corresponding
tendency to recommend lower asking prices than rival agents who
recommend a higher price and achieve, on average, a lower fraction
of it.

After all, if the seller overrides the agent's recommended asking
price by increasing it by 10%, they're not going to be as likely
to achieve 98% of 110%, are they?

On the other hand, it's a useful statistic for buyers. They know
that if they offer 2% under the asking price of a property marketed
by Foxtons, they're likely to get it without much haggling.

We have similar wishy-washy guidelines in Scotland, and the skill
of buyers' solicitors is to know how sellers' solicitors think in
terms of the fiddle factors they recommend. For example, the selling
solicitor (equivalent to English estate agent - estate agents as
such, who are not also solicitors, are few and far between here)
will visit a prospective vendor and between them they'll come up
with a figure of how much they're *likely to get* for the place.
Then it will be downrated by some magic fiddle factor pulled out
of a hat. A property expected to fetch £170k might well be marketed
at "offers over £140k". Some firms have reputations for setting
these asking prices lower than others, the idea being to attract
more interest by advertising the same property for as little as
offers over £125k, say. So you know you will probably need to offer
130% of a property marketed by W (not naming any names) but only
120% of a similar property marketed by most others, for an equal
chance of acceptance. Not very helpful if you're not in the know,
but it must work or they wouldn't do it.

Of course both practices are susceptible to the "must have" buyer
phenomenon, where pre-emptive offers too good to refuse come in.

In article , David Hearn dave@NoSpamSwampi
eSpammer.Org.Uk writes
Drew wrote:
Good point. Why not?...

Doesn't the Scottish system require surveys to be done prior to
offer? Or is it that the agreement to purchase (which is binding)
can be broken if the survey throws up a problem?

Also, because of the Scottish system of sealed bids, you commonly
have to bid signficantly more than the asking price to try and get
it. Potentially you could bid 25% more than someone if you
thought/were advised that most would offer 20% more and then find
that the only other person offered 10% more. Depending on the
deadline for offers, you could be sitting around for 2 weeks or so
to hear if your bid is accepted. In this country, you can generally
get a response in a day or so letting you know either to increase
your offer, or consider other properties.

At least in this system you have a price and you're reasonably sure
you can get it for that price (or less). Rarely does the price go
over the asking price, unless it gets into a silly bidding battle
increasing the price above the asking price - which I don't think is
that common.

Whilst our system has its problems, from what I've heard, the
Scottish system isn't favoured by everyone - even some Scots. I've
also heard that more and more get-out clauses are being added making
it far easier for someone to pull out - making it similar to the
English method.

David


I am not an expert, just relaying my experience,
As far as i know you dont need a survey prior to offer and
presumably the agreement to purchase wording can be changed, your
point on having to bid more than the asking price is a valid one, it
is very scary.

I did not know the asking prices in England was close to what you
generly pay, up here yo have to go quite a bit over to have a chance,
30% is not uncommon.
The Scottish system tends to be favoured by sellers and hated by
buyers.

Yes, we got a leaflet through our door from Foxtons saying that they, on
average, get 98% of the asking price - showing it as a good reason to go
with them.

David



As well they might say that. Do you *know* if its true?...
--
Tony Sayer

tony sayer wrote:
In article , David Hearn
dave@NoSpamSwampi eSpammer.Org.Uk writes
Drew wrote:
Good point. Why not?...

Doesn't the Scottish system require surveys to be done prior to
offer? Or is it that the agreement to purchase (which is binding)
can be broken if the survey throws up a problem?

Also, because of the Scottish system of sealed bids, you commonly
have to bid signficantly more than the asking price to try and get
it. Potentially you could bid 25% more than someone if you
thought/were advised that most would offer 20% more and then find
that the only other person offered 10% more. Depending on the
deadline for offers, you could be sitting around for 2 weeks or so
to hear if your bid is accepted. In this country, you can
generally get a response in a day or so letting you know either to
increase your offer, or consider other properties.

At least in this system you have a price and you're reasonably sure
you can get it for that price (or less). Rarely does the price go
over the asking price, unless it gets into a silly bidding battle
increasing the price above the asking price - which I don't think
is that common.

Whilst our system has its problems, from what I've heard, the
Scottish system isn't favoured by everyone - even some Scots. I've
also heard that more and more get-out clauses are being added
making it far easier for someone to pull out - making it similar
to the English method.

David


I am not an expert, just relaying my experience,
As far as i know you dont need a survey prior to offer and
presumably the agreement to purchase wording can be changed, your
point on having to bid more than the asking price is a valid one, it
is very scary.

I did not know the asking prices in England was close to what you
generly pay, up here yo have to go quite a bit over to have a
chance, 30% is not uncommon.
The Scottish system tends to be favoured by sellers and hated by
buyers.

Yes, we got a leaflet through our door from Foxtons saying that
they, on average, get 98% of the asking price - showing it as a good
reason to go with them.

David



As well they might say that. Do you *know* if its true?...

Hehe - yeah, I don't *know* if its true - however, when we sold our place
with a different agent, we sold for 96% of the original asking price (100%
of the later reduced one) and bought our place for 97% asking price. Our
friends also sold for 96% of asking price and purchased for 96% of asking
price.

So, its in the right region at least!

David

(jah_aaa) wrote in message . com...
Hi,

not sure if the right group, but here goes anyway:

We are first time buyers and have had an offer accepted on a house,
and both ourselves and the vendor are after a "quick" sale. Both are
chain free.

My question is this:

What sort of timetable would be a quick sale? When should I start
hassling solicitors and surveyers and the vendors?

Anyone with a rough timescale for the next few weeks??

thanks,

J

I sold a house a couple of years ago to some first time buyers. I was
moving into a flat I owned while we looked for another house so it was
a similar situation to yours. I can't remember the exact dates but the
whole process took not much more than four weeks and that was over a
Christmas period. So it can be done if both sides have solicitors that
are on the ball and the finance is straight forward.

Andy

"Drew" wrote
| The Scottish system tends to be favoured by sellers and hated
| by buyers.

For buyers it has the advantage of removing almost all risk of gazumping
early on in the process. (Apart from first-time buyers and second-home
buyers) buyers are usually also sellers, so removing uncertainty helps
everyone. Did you see that English programme about house chains earlier this
week, where the cash buyer (a lawyer!) threatened to bring the whole chain
down if he didn't get a discount?

The Scottish system works well where there is a fairly even match between
properties and buyers with only a few buyers putting in bids on a property.
It starts to fall down when 15 or 20 buyers are all chasing the same 2-bed
flat.

Not all property is sold o/o, the slower moving stuff is sold fixed price to
help move it quickly.

I know it's fashionable to denigrate lawyers (see above) but the Scottish
system, being led by solicitors in a small country, has the advantage of a
small legal profession, most of whom will know each other and have to work
with each other in the future, and all of whom are responsible for paying
for each other's professional indemnity fund. Sharp practice will not be
viewed with favour.

Owain

big snip

First time buyer in Scotland, saw house, liked it, went rount to
solicitor
and told him to put in offer which he did that day, closing date was set
for
4 days from then as more people had been interested, got call from
solicitor
on closing date to tell me offer had been accepted, next day went to
solicitors office and signed the neccesery forms, 5 days later sellers
signed their side of the paperwork, agreeing on a move in date of 4 weeks
from then, from that moment on the contract is signed ansd sealed so the
sellers cannot accept a bigger offer, basicly the deal was done within
10-14
days of me seeing the house.
Why is the English property selling system so open to abuse?
Why dont they change it?

Drew

Look how many lawyers and solicitors there are in parliament...

The Q

On Thu, 04 Mar 2004 11:01:55 +0000, John Laird
wrote:



The Scottish system is not perfect. Buyers generally have to pay for
surveys with no guarantee of clinching the sale. When chains cannot be
linked neatly, someone has to either bridge or move into temporary



Isn't there now an obligaiton for sellers to have a survey?
--
Free stuff by post
http://www.freestuffbypost.co.uk

Owain wrote:

Did you see that English programme about house chains earlier this
week, where the cash buyer (a lawyer!) threatened to bring the
whole chain down if he didn't get a discount?

He seemed reasonable compared to the pair who denied knowledge of
the listed status of their place and it's barn conversion, in the
meantime demanding the place they were buying was finished to their
requirements!

--
Chris Game

Consciousness: that annoying time between naps.

Chris Game said

Did you see that English programme about house chains earlier this
week, where the cash buyer (a lawyer!) threatened to bring the
whole chain down if he didn't get a discount?

He seemed reasonable compared to the pair who denied knowledge of
the listed status of their place and it's barn conversion, in the
meantime demanding the place they were buying was finished to their
requirements!

Depends on which end you are on I suppose - our first time buyer tried
the same thing on with us. We thought long and hard but eventually
agreed to a small discount.

But of course, if he hadn't pulled this last minute stunt we would
probably have exchanged before Christmas, which in the event would have
been a disaster for me.

--
A woman is like a teabag - you never know how strong she is until she
gets into hot water.

Freda wrote:
Chris Game said

Did you see that English programme about house chains earlier this
week, where the cash buyer (a lawyer!) threatened to bring the
whole chain down if he didn't get a discount?

He seemed reasonable compared to the pair who denied knowledge of
the listed status of their place and it's barn conversion, in the
meantime demanding the place they were buying was finished to their
requirements!

Depends on which end you are on I suppose - our first time buyer tried
the same thing on with us. We thought long and hard but eventually
agreed to a small discount.

But of course, if he hadn't pulled this last minute stunt we would
probably have exchanged before Christmas, which in the event would
have been a disaster for me.

One of my employees is currently going through the process of becoming a
first time buyer. He offered 100k against an asking price of 107950, the
agents came back and said the vendors wouldn't accept less than 105, which
he agreed to. The agents then came back again and said 'sorry we meant 106,
but the vendor will definitely sell at that', so he agreed to that. They
then came back again and said 'sorry we meant 107'. My bloke told them where
to go.
There's quite a lot on the market round here between 100-110 and there's no
need for him to go chasing the price upwards when there's other properties
to investigate first.

--
James...
www.jameshart.co.uk

In message , "Di @ Freebies
Network UK" writes
On Thu, 04 Mar 2004 11:01:55 +0000, John Laird
wrote:



The Scottish system is not perfect. Buyers generally have to pay for
surveys with no guarantee of clinching the sale. When chains cannot be
linked neatly, someone has to either bridge or move into temporary



Isn't there now an obligaiton for sellers to have a survey?

No. It is mooted for 2006, but it was also mooted for 2001, and 2003.

Would you trust a sellers survey??

--
Richard Faulkner
Faulkner & Faulkner
Tel: 0161 881 6087 Fax: 0161 861 7636 web: www.estate.demon.co.uk

(Andy Coleman) wrote in message . com...
(jah_aaa) wrote in message . com...
Hi,

not sure if the right group, but here goes anyway:

We are first time buyers and have had an offer accepted on a house,
and both ourselves and the vendor are after a "quick" sale. Both are
chain free.

My question is this:

What sort of timetable would be a quick sale? When should I start
hassling solicitors and surveyers and the vendors?

Anyone with a rough timescale for the next few weeks??

thanks,

J

I sold a house a couple of years ago to some first time buyers. I was
moving into a flat I owned while we looked for another house so it was
a similar situation to yours. I can't remember the exact dates but the
whole process took not much more than four weeks and that was over a
Christmas period. So it can be done if both sides have solicitors that
are on the ball and the finance is straight forward.

Andy

well i had been renting the house i bought for 3 years prior to buying
- landlady gave me 1st refusal - she sold including all contents
having deducted potential estate agent fees fom the asking price.
There were no upper or lower chains, but due to the PITA solictor it
still all took just over 2 months

Gin

In article , Gin Smith
writes
(Andy Coleman) wrote in message news:973dde6c.040304083
...
(jah_aaa) wrote in message news:a519acb6.0403031004.42e
...
Hi,

not sure if the right group, but here goes anyway:

We are first time buyers and have had an offer accepted on a house,
and both ourselves and the vendor are after a "quick" sale. Both are
chain free.

My question is this:

What sort of timetable would be a quick sale? When should I start
hassling solicitors and surveyers and the vendors?

Anyone with a rough timescale for the next few weeks??

thanks,

J

I sold a house a couple of years ago to some first time buyers. I was
moving into a flat I owned while we looked for another house so it was
a similar situation to yours. I can't remember the exact dates but the
whole process took not much more than four weeks and that was over a
Christmas period. So it can be done if both sides have solicitors that
are on the ball and the finance is straight forward.

Andy

well i had been renting the house i bought for 3 years prior to buying
- landlady gave me 1st refusal - she sold including all contents
having deducted potential estate agent fees fom the asking price.
There were no upper or lower chains, but due to the PITA solictor it
still all took just over 2 months

Gin

Always seems the solicitors and legal ones for any delay. The one that
did my last conveyance refused to take any communications via e-mail!.

Just how olde worlde is that?..
--
Tony Sayer

On Fri, 5 Mar 2004 02:06:01 +0000, Richard Faulkner
wrote:

In message , "Di @ Freebies
Network UK" writes
On Thu, 04 Mar 2004 11:01:55 +0000, John Laird
wrote:

The Scottish system is not perfect. Buyers generally have to pay for
surveys with no guarantee of clinching the sale. When chains cannot be
linked neatly, someone has to either bridge or move into temporary

Isn't there now an obligaiton for sellers to have a survey?

No. It is mooted for 2006, but it was also mooted for 2001, and 2003.

Would you trust a sellers survey??

More to the point, I think the legal situation will be very complex. Either
the vendor will be tied up in knots by way of implied responsibility(*), or
the law will have to find a way of showing the surveyor acted for the buyer
when they clearly had no contract.

(*) Although there is an element of this already in Scottish property law.
I nearly had my buyer chasing me for a plumber's bill to correct a slightly
dodgy toilet flush (it worked every time if you had the knack). Apparently
we should have said the toilet flush was not perfect. I rather thought this
was the point of their survey.

--
I'm an analog man in a digital world.

Mail john rather than nospam...

My only contribution to this is to say that
most agents will sell a house for 1%.
Foxtons are a particularly slimey bunch.
If both parties use the same solicitor, it doesn't half speed things up.
Fixed price conveyancing is the way to go. Use a firm in a remote part of
the country and they're grateful for a £300 fee. In London they won't pick
up the phone for that sort of money.

John Laird wrote:

On Fri, 5 Mar 2004 02:06:01 +0000, Richard Faulkner
wrote:

Would you trust a sellers survey??

More to the point, I think the legal situation will be very complex.
Either the vendor will be tied up in knots by way of implied
responsibility(*), or the law will have to find a way of showing the
surveyor acted for the buyer when they clearly had no contract.

"Surveys On Line" have cracked that one. Although they are initially
commissioned by the seller, they *do* have a contract with the buyer,
because they sell them a copy of the report on the cheap, before they
make up their minds whether to bid, on condition that, if they do buy
the property, they pay the full survey fee minus what they paid
already, and also get the benefit of full indemnity.

The only remaining potential problem is that the seller, having
commissioned the survey *and seen the report* is at that point at
liberty to put a lid on it and elect not to let any buyers see it.
But that means the seller has to pay the survey fee which would
otherwise be borne by the eventual buyer. The seller also has to
pay the fee if the property is bought by someone who didn't buy
the cheap copy.

(*) Although there is an element of this already in Scottish property law.
I nearly had my buyer chasing me for a plumber's bill to correct a
slightly
dodgy toilet flush (it worked every time if you had the knack).
Apparently
we should have said the toilet flush was not perfect. I rather thought
this was the point of their survey.

No, that's not the point of the survey. If the offer to purchase
contains a condition that "the services shall be in good working
order" and you chose not to reject that condition, they've got
you over a barrel.

I suspect that if, as you seem to imply by using the word "nearly",
you got away with not paying that bill, it is because the buyer
went ahead with getting a plumber in off his own bat without first
notifying you of the defect and giving you the opportunity to fix
it. Either that, or he did point it out and your teaching him the
knack obviated the need for calling anyone in.

In article ,
Good point. Why not?...

Doesn't the Scottish system require surveys to be done prior to offer? Or
is it that the agreement to purchase (which is binding) can be broken if the
survey throws up a problem?

Nope, you don't have to have a survey done in advance but it is usual that
it is done before an offer is made.

Also, because of the Scottish system of sealed bids, you commonly have to
bid signficantly more than the asking price to try and get it. Potentially
you could bid 25% more than someone if you thought/were advised that most
would offer 20% more and then find that the only other person offered 10%
more. Depending on the deadline for offers, you could be sitting around for
2 weeks or so to hear if your bid is accepted. In this country, you can
generally get a response in a day or so letting you know either to increase
your offer, or consider other properties.

In a rising/competitive market, the Scottish system is a bit of a nightmare
for a buyer. You can shell out loads of money on surveys and still not
get a place.

Pete

On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 11:15:22 GMT, Ronald Raygun
wrote:

John Laird wrote:

On Fri, 5 Mar 2004 02:06:01 +0000, Richard Faulkner
wrote:

Would you trust a sellers survey??

More to the point, I think the legal situation will be very complex.
Either the vendor will be tied up in knots by way of implied
responsibility(*), or the law will have to find a way of showing the
surveyor acted for the buyer when they clearly had no contract.

"Surveys On Line" have cracked that one. Although they are initially
commissioned by the seller, they *do* have a contract with the buyer,
because they sell them a copy of the report on the cheap, before they
make up their minds whether to bid, on condition that, if they do buy
the property, they pay the full survey fee minus what they paid
already, and also get the benefit of full indemnity.

I see.

(*) Although there is an element of this already in Scottish property law.
I nearly had my buyer chasing me for a plumber's bill to correct a
slightly
dodgy toilet flush (it worked every time if you had the knack).
Apparently
we should have said the toilet flush was not perfect. I rather thought
this was the point of their survey.

No, that's not the point of the survey. If the offer to purchase
contains a condition that "the services shall be in good working
order" and you chose not to reject that condition, they've got
you over a barrel.

More that my solicitor (who charged a small fortune) did not make it clear
it presumably was, as you suggest, in the contract. I know we stated the
burglar alarm had not been used for some time. Having moved around England,
and got used to the fact that you were lucky if the vendors left the light
bulbs in, never mind guaranteeing there was even working electricity, I got
caught out.

I suspect that if, as you seem to imply by using the word "nearly",
you got away with not paying that bill, it is because the buyer
went ahead with getting a plumber in off his own bat without first
notifying you of the defect and giving you the opportunity to fix
it. Either that, or he did point it out and your teaching him the
knack obviated the need for calling anyone in.

I believe he had a plumber friend who adjusted something in 30 seconds.
They obviously decided not to send on a bill.

--
Remember that you are special, just like everyone else.

Mail john rather than nospam...

In message , John Laird
writes
On Fri, 5 Mar 2004 02:06:01 +0000, Richard Faulkner
wrote:

In message , "Di @ Freebies
Network UK" writes
On Thu, 04 Mar 2004 11:01:55 +0000, John Laird
wrote:

The Scottish system is not perfect. Buyers generally have to pay for
surveys with no guarantee of clinching the sale. When chains cannot be
linked neatly, someone has to either bridge or move into temporary

Isn't there now an obligaiton for sellers to have a survey?

No. It is mooted for 2006, but it was also mooted for 2001, and 2003.

Would you trust a sellers survey??

More to the point, I think the legal situation will be very complex. Either
the vendor will be tied up in knots by way of implied responsibility(*), or
the law will have to find a way of showing the surveyor acted for the buyer
when they clearly had no contract.

(*) Although there is an element of this already in Scottish property law.
I nearly had my buyer chasing me for a plumber's bill to correct a slightly
dodgy toilet flush (it worked every time if you had the knack). Apparently
we should have said the toilet flush was not perfect. I rather thought this
was the point of their survey.


Taking legal action against a surveyor and/or a seller after the event
will be a long, complex, and expensive process.

Having your own survey means you choose the surveyor, and he is working
for you and noone else.

Relying on a sellers survey leaves you in the dark - was he any good?
was it a quick cursory glance, or in depth? Was there a backhander
involved?

In most instances it should be fine, but I can imagine the scenarios
where the dodgy builder is in league with the dodgy surveyor, and so
on....



--
Richard Faulkner
Faulkner & Faulkner
Tel: 0161 881 6087 Fax: 0161 861 7636 web: www.estate.demon.co.uk