A friend of mine asked the local electricity company to install a "white
meter",
Economy 7 type thing to power his night storage heaters.

The company said that it is not their policy to install such meters anymore,
and that it is all done by computer.......!! This answer intrigued me, any
idea what the chap was talking about?

"John Horne" wrote in message
...
A friend of mine asked the local electricity company to install a "white
meter",
Economy 7 type thing to power his night storage heaters.

The company said that it is not their policy to install such meters
anymore,
and that it is all done by computer.......!! This answer intrigued me,
any
idea what the chap was talking about?

They remotely monitor the new meters, so they know when you use the off peak
stuff. I would hang on to the old meter as long as possible (if you have
one), at least you know exactly where you are.

MrCheerful

MrCheerful wrote:

"John Horne" wrote in message
...


A friend of mine asked the local electricity company to install a "white
meter",
Economy 7 type thing to power his night storage heaters.

The company said that it is not their policy to install such meters


anymore,


and that it is all done by computer.......!! This answer intrigued me,


any


idea what the chap was talking about?





Three years ago my electricity board installed a dual scale meter and
Rugby driven clock to tell the meter when to swicth from peak rate to
cheap rate. All for free! NB this is not Economy 7.

Rgds Richard

In article , MrCheerful
writes

"John Horne" wrote in message
...
A friend of mine asked the local electricity company to install a "white
meter",
Economy 7 type thing to power his night storage heaters.

The company said that it is not their policy to install such meters
anymore,
and that it is all done by computer.......!! This answer intrigued me,
any
idea what the chap was talking about?

They remotely monitor the new meters,

How?...

so they know when you use the off peak
stuff. I would hang on to the old meter as long as possible (if you have
one), at least you know exactly where you are.

MrCheerful



--
Tony Sayer

On 29 Feb 2004 20:02:52 GMT, (John Horne) wrote:

This answer intrigued me, any
idea what the chap was talking about?

The (very) old white meter system simply activated a separate circuit
during the night. This circuit was usually confined to storage
heaters. The "new" (err....about 20 years) system simply switches
the meter between two charging tariffs. If you put your washing
machine, tumble dryer and dishwasher on at night this can give a
considerable saving.


--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

"John Horne" wrote in message
...
A friend of mine asked the local electricity company to install a "white
meter",
Economy 7 type thing to power his night storage heaters.

The company said that it is not their policy to install such meters anymore,
and that it is all done by computer.......!! This answer intrigued me, any
idea what the chap was talking about?

With my economy 7 supply I have a single meter for the whole house with one
supply
The meter records off peak and on peak usage.

It is my responsibility to make sure that any devices that I want to power by
off peak electricity are only connected to the supply at the appropriate time
(which I do by using a time switch.)

Michael Chare

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article , MrCheerful
writes

"John Horne" wrote in message
...
A friend of mine asked the local electricity company to install a
"white
meter",
Economy 7 type thing to power his night storage heaters.

The company said that it is not their policy to install such meters
anymore,
and that it is all done by computer.......!! This answer intrigued me,
any
idea what the chap was talking about?

They remotely monitor the new meters,

How?...


I believe there is some sort of pulse put out over the mains feed which
identifies your usage.

MrCheerful

A friend of mine asked the local electricity company to install a "white
meter", Economy 7 type thing to power his night storage heaters.
The company said that it is not their policy to install such meters anymore,
and that it is all done by computer.......!! This answer intrigued me, any
idea what the chap was talking about?

Sounds to me like you got a complete ****** on the call centre.

Try again and see what they say. I`m in the industry, and although i`m
not on the metering side, I do order replacement meters for shift
electricians to fit.

--
Please add "[newsgroup]" in the subject of any personal replies via email
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--- My new email address has "ngspamtrap" & @btinternet.com in it ;-) ---

MrCheerful wrote in message ...

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article , MrCheerful
writes

"John Horne" wrote in message
...
A friend of mine asked the local electricity company to install a
"white
meter",
Economy 7 type thing to power his night storage heaters.

The company said that it is not their policy to install such meters
anymore,
and that it is all done by computer.......!! This answer intrigued
me,
any
idea what the chap was talking about?

They remotely monitor the new meters,

How?...


I believe there is some sort of pulse put out over the mains feed which
identifies your usage.

MrCheerful


A phase modulated signal is sent out on Radio 4 longwave, 198kHz which is
detected by the leccy meter and switches the consumption recorded between
standard and off peak.

Phase mod is used so that the signal can also be used a stable frequency
reference for other purposes.

Bob

On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 22:25:45 +-0000 (UTC), "Michael Chare"
wrote:



"John Horne" wrote in message
...
A friend of mine asked the local electricity company to install a "white
meter",
Economy 7 type thing to power his night storage heaters.

The company said that it is not their policy to install such meters anymore,
and that it is all done by computer.......!! This answer intrigued me, any
idea what the chap was talking about?

With my economy 7 supply I have a single meter for the whole house with one
supply
The meter records off peak and on peak usage.

It is my responsibility to make sure that any devices that I want to power by
off peak electricity are only connected to the supply at the appropriate time
(which I do by using a time switch.)

Michael Chare

Hmm, I have a single meter with dual rates that is 'managed' by a
separate clock close by. The clock also has a substantial switch in it
that feeds another mini CU that raidially feed the storage rads.

The rads 'only' come on during the Economy period but *everything* on
at night is charged at the lower rate *we use timeswitches on the
Washing machine, tumble dryer, dishwasher etc). I also used to run an
electric car and that was generally charged overnight.

Out of interest, had we only had the std rate, the total units used
since they fitted this system probably 15 years ago is 165439 and if
we said +AH4-5p / unit that would be +AKM-8271.95.

But of that, 93057 units were charged at the lower rate (say 2p /
unit) saving +AKM-1861.14 ?

There was a small standing charge but I think the calculations
suggested that if you had even a fridge and freezer (on 24/7) the
standing charge would be covered.?

All the best ..

T i m

On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 23:04:14 +0000, T i m wrote:

There was a small standing charge but I think the calculations
suggested that if you had even a fridge and freezer (on 24/7) the
standing charge would be covered.?

It's quite a balancing act as with the "E7" tarrif the standing charge
and peak unit cost is higher than the normal "domestic" charges. So
the amount of power you need to use in the off peak period is related
to how much you use during the peak period.

Using NORWEB/Energis/PowerGens old E7 and domestic tariffs you had to
use 1.47 units to save the increased standing charge and an additional
0.21 units for each peak rate unit used to save the the increased peak
rate cost. At reasonable useage rates (15 units/day) you need to use
about 1/4 of that power in the off peak period. ie 4 units off peak
and 11 peak just to break even.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

On 29 Feb 2004 20:02:52 GMT, John Horne wrote:

The company said that it is not their policy to install such meters
anymore, and that it is all done by computer.......!!

White meters are no longer supplied, you get a dual rate meter and a
timeswitch. These days probably a radio controlled (from the 198kHz LW
transmissions) time switch.

This answer intrigued me, any idea what the chap was talking about?

Teletubbies don't know anything if it's not on the screen in front of
them. So if you don't ask the right question you won't get the right
answer. And as the teletubbie does know anything you can't explain in
simple words what you want for him to then supply the word(s) you need
to ask the right question. Teletubies screens don't appear to have any
"search" facilties either...

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

On Mon, 01 Mar 2004 09:53:59 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 23:04:14 +0000, T i m wrote:

There was a small standing charge but I think the calculations
suggested that if you had even a fridge and freezer (on 24/7) the
standing charge would be covered.?

It's quite a balancing act as with the "E7" tarrif the standing charge
and peak unit cost is higher than the normal "domestic" charges. So
the amount of power you need to use in the off peak period is related
to how much you use during the peak period.

Hi Dave,

When I took up my 'cheap night rate tarrif' (I think it is/was called
E7 even then) I was told the std units would remain the same price
whilst the 'economy' units would be cheaper. I'm not sure if they have
kept the contract the same (I should look shouldn't I g).

A mate who lived in the Newmarket area had a raised std unit price but
a lower cheap rate than mine (he may not of had a standing charge
either).

All the best .. T i m

In article , Bob
Minchin writes

MrCheerful wrote in message ...

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article , MrCheerful
writes

"John Horne" wrote in message
...
A friend of mine asked the local electricity company to install a
"white
meter",
Economy 7 type thing to power his night storage heaters.

The company said that it is not their policy to install such meters
anymore,
and that it is all done by computer.......!! This answer intrigued
me,
any
idea what the chap was talking about?

They remotely monitor the new meters,

How?...


I believe there is some sort of pulse put out over the mains feed which
identifies your usage.

MrCheerful


A phase modulated signal is sent out on Radio 4 longwave, 198kHz which is
detected by the leccy meter and switches the consumption recorded between
standard and off peak.

Phase mod is used so that the signal can also be used a stable frequency
reference for other purposes.

Bob



That's controlling your meter, not "monitoring" it.....
--
Tony Sayer

"Bob Minchin" wrote in message
...

A phase modulated signal is sent out on Radio 4 longwave, 198kHz which is
detected by the leccy meter and switches the consumption recorded between
standard and off peak.

Does this directly control the meter switching from one tariff to another?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought all this signal did was to keep the
time clock accurate, and the meter still switches over according to what
time
it was preset at when first installed?

Nick

On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 15:11:25 -0000, Nick Read wrote:


"Bob Minchin" wrote in message
...

A phase modulated signal is sent out on Radio 4 longwave, 198kHz which is
detected by the leccy meter and switches the consumption recorded between
standard and off peak.

Does this directly control the meter switching from one tariff to another?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought all this signal did was to keep the
time clock accurate, and the meter still switches over according to what
time
it was preset at when first installed?

No. Older style two rate meters relied upon a local t/s. Teleswitched
meters use either a mains-borne signal or a broadcast signal. If you
check the tariff, you'll see that the leccy company will give you seven
hours between the hours of, say, midnight and 08.00.

On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 15:50:42 +0000, Wanderer wrote:

No. Older style two rate meters relied upon a local t/s.
Teleswitched meters use either a mains-borne signal or a broadcast
signal.

As far as the 198kHz signal is concerned there is, somewhere, on the
web a pretty reasonable description of what it does, how it does it
and the control the leccy co's have over the switching.

If you check the tariff, you'll see that the leccy company will give
you seven hours between the hours of, say, midnight and 08.00.

All depends on the tariff you have. See T i m ' s post about
variations in tariffs. It really is a nightmare now and you have to
know your actual consumption at the proposed peak/off peak hours to
come to any sensible conclusions.

There certainly are tariffs about that float the 7 hours within a
window, or split it within a single nighttime window. There are others
that give you 5 hrs in a night window and another two in an afternoon
window. Standing charges may or may not(*) exist, be more or less than
the normal domestic tariff.

(*) Though they normally they claw that back by charging you more for
the first X units each quarter. So it's just marketing puff, no real
saving to the consumer.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

Subject: Off peak electricity
From: Wanderer
Date: 01/03/04 15:50 GMT Standard Time
Message-id:

No. Older style two rate meters relied upon a local t/s.


Some older style systems relied on an electric clock to make the switch which
was fine until there was a power cut.

On a completely unrelated subject it would be interesting to know what
percentage of electricity is stolen by various means.

And what different methods people use, bypassing the meter, impeding the disc
inside the meter turning, using some sort of phase shift device to make the
dial turn backwards and wiring into the street lamp or the nextdoor neigbour
house are all methods I have heard of.

I wonder if the more technically savvy are able to replicate the 198Khz time
signal to make the cheap rate meter kick in at the flick of a switch?

As of yet, I have never heard of anyone being prosecuted for bypassing a water
meter.

John.

"JhnWil875" wrote in message
...
Subject: Off peak electricity
From: Wanderer
Date: 01/03/04 15:50 GMT Standard Time
Message-id:

No. Older style two rate meters relied upon a local t/s.


Some older style systems relied on an electric clock to make the switch
which
was fine until there was a power cut.

On a completely unrelated subject it would be interesting to know what
percentage of electricity is stolen by various means.

And what different methods people use, bypassing the meter, impeding the
disc
inside the meter turning, using some sort of phase shift device to make
the
dial turn backwards and wiring into the street lamp or the nextdoor
neigbour
house are all methods I have heard of.

I knew someone who stopped the mechanical Economy 7 timeswitch for
about 12 hours using a large magnet. This meant that from then on he
got the seven off-peak hours during the day instead of night.
None of the meter readers ever noticed, even when the meter itself
was replaced they failed to spot the incorrect time on the timeswitch,
and that was before privatisation, when the meter was read every
quarter by electricity board staff.

Nick

On Mon, 01 Mar 2004 17:39:04 +0000 (GMT), Dave Liquorice wrote:

snip

All depends on the tariff you have. See T i m ' s post about
variations in tariffs. It really is a nightmare now and you have to
know your actual consumption at the proposed peak/off peak hours to
come to any sensible conclusions.

There certainly are tariffs about that float the 7 hours within a
window, or split it within a single nighttime window. There are others
that give you 5 hrs in a night window and another two in an afternoon
window. Standing charges may or may not(*) exist, be more or less than
the normal domestic tariff.

(*) Though they normally they claw that back by charging you more for
the first X units each quarter. So it's just marketing puff, no real
saving to the consumer.

Oh, there is a real saving to the customer if he or she has a whacking
great load that can be restricted to the cheap period. I have an 18kw
pool heater and running that at just under 3p per unit is *much* cheaper
than at 8 or 9p per unit!

When E7 was the only day/night tariff, as distinct from the variety of
time of day tariffs now available, the rule of thumb break-even point
was for more than 27% (If I remember correctly!) of unit consumption to
occur during the cheap rate period. The other thing, of course, was that
the night rate unit charge was the same across the country
pre-privatisation. Whether that's still the case I can't be bothered to
research

On 01 Mar 2004 18:33:13 GMT, JhnWil875 wrote:

Subject: Off peak electricity
From: Wanderer
Date: 01/03/04 15:50 GMT Standard Time
Message-id:

No. Older style two rate meters relied upon a local t/s.


Some older style systems relied on an electric clock to make the switch which
was fine until there was a power cut.

Err, yes, that's what I meant when I said a local t/s (timeswitch).
These had a 7 day spring reserve, so they were OK for normal supply
interruptions. 1987 was a bit of problem after the great hurricane!

On a completely unrelated subject it would be interesting to know what
percentage of electricity is stolen by various means.

Unless things have changed in the last few years, not as much as you
might be tempted to think.

And what different methods people use, bypassing the meter, impeding the disc
inside the meter turning, using some sort of phase shift device to make the
dial turn backwards and wiring into the street lamp or the nextdoor neigbour
house are all methods I have heard of.

Don't even think about it! I could certainly add one or two far more
ingenious means, but then, I spent a little bit of my working life
looking for it, and it is a criminal offence!

JhnWil875 wrote:

Subject:

As of yet, I have never heard of anyone being prosecuted for bypassing a water
meter.

John.


It has always perplexed me that there appears to be nothing preventing
the removal of my gas meter and insertion of appropriate pipe in its
place. There are no seals anywhere on my meter or the bracket that it
is attached to.

Richard

On Mon, 1 Mar 2004, JhnWil875 wrote:

On a completely unrelated subject it would be interesting to know what
percentage of electricity is stolen by various means.

I wonder if anyone knows, as far as I can see it would be very hard to
make even an educated guess.

And what different methods people use, bypassing the meter, impeding the disc
inside the meter turning, using some sort of phase shift device to make the
dial turn backwards and wiring into the street lamp or the nextdoor neigbour
house are all methods I have heard of.

I have heard of people stripping some of the armour off the incoming steel
wire armoured cabled in a common stair and driving screws into phase and
neutral conductors and drawing power off that...

The bind boggles at what would cause someone to do something so
dangerous.


When I moved in to my current home I asked the electricity supplier to
remove the assortment of meters, contactors and timeswitches which
supplied a disused consumer unit previously used for storage heaters. The
new meter was of course carefully sealed up with lead seals but the hefty
terminal blocks where the incoming tails split to feed the off-peak meter
were left completely unsealed. If I was less honest than I am there would
be nothing to stop me drawing electricity off at this point, bypassing the
meter but leaving the seals intact...

--
Alistair Riddell - BOFH
Microsoft - because god hates us

A mate who lived in the Newmarket area had a raised std unit price but
a lower cheap rate than mine (he may not of had a standing charge
either).

Depending on how long he had that arrangement installed, there are / were
preserved tariffs that new applicants are not able to get.

--
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--- My new email address has "ngspamtrap" & @btinternet.com in it ;-) ---

impeding the disc inside the meter turning

One guy was found using a film negative (thin / flexible) to jam the
disc, only one day they managed to tear the film leaving some inside the
meter.

Prints were made from the negative and used against `em...

--
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Subject: Off peak electricity
From: Richard Savage
Date: 01/03/04 20:06 GMT Standard Time
Message-id:

It has always perplexed me that there appears to be nothing preventing
the removal of my gas meter and insertion of appropriate pipe in its
place. There are no seals anywhere on my meter or the bracket that it
is attached to.

Richard

Someone in the gas industry told me that the gas company installed meters in 5
tower blocks each consisting of 174 Flats and found that about 12% of the gas
was stolen.

All they did was to put up posters in the entrance halls warning people about
the safety and criminal aspects of stealing gas, which made no difference
whatsoever to the amount being stolen.

The normal meter reader apparently found bypassed meters periodically with
varying degrees of competence including one which had been bypassed using a
piece of plastic/rubber hose with Jubillee clips and gaffer tape for the seal.

John.

John.

Subject: Off peak electricity
From: Wanderer
Date: 01/03/04 19:52 GMT Standard Time
Message-id:


Don't even think about it! I could certainly add one or two far more
ingenious means, but then, I spent a little bit of my working life looking for
it,

Which must be why you seem to think that anyone who mentions the subject wants
to do it.

and it is a criminal offence!

Thanks for letting us all know, I am sure that no one on this newsgroup knew
that.

John.

On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 19:52:53 +0000, Wanderer wrote:

Err, yes, that's what I meant when I said a local t/s (timeswitch).
These had a 7 day spring reserve,

Glad you said had, if ours did it no longer works... It currently
thinks it is 1400 not 0030. It has been reset once but any power
outage soon makes it wrong.

... so they were OK for normal supply interruptions. 1987 was a bit
of problem after the great hurricane!

Only for a *tiny* part of the country. I was in Bristol, it was windy
but nothing special. I doubt anywhere much north of Oxford noticed
anything.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 22:26:39 -0000, in uk.d-i-y Colin Wilson
strung together this:

A mate who lived in the Newmarket area had a raised std unit price but
a lower cheap rate than mine (he may not of had a standing charge
either).

Depending on how long he had that arrangement installed, there are / were
preserved tariffs that new applicants are not able to get.

Quite right. I've just rewired a friends house in Sheffield and their
off peak is an absolute bargain but the YEB say they can't get that
tarriff now. If they stay as they are they can keep it but if they
want the meter or any related equipment changing they'll have to stick
it on the more expensive tarriff.
...

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd.

On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 21:02:36 +0000, Alistair Riddell wrote:

On Mon, 1 Mar 2004, JhnWil875 wrote:

On a completely unrelated subject it would be interesting to know what
percentage of electricity is stolen by various means.

I wonder if anyone knows, as far as I can see it would be very hard to
make even an educated guess.

Not sure if it's still done, but it's quite easy. Energy is measured at
bulk supply points (i.e.where the local leccy companies get it from the
national grid). Deduct all the units billed, factor in an allowance for
unmetered supplies, like street lights, and system losses, and you have
an indication of unbilled units.

In article , JhnWil875
wrote:
The normal meter reader apparently found bypassed meters
periodically with varying degrees of competence including one which
had been bypassed using a piece of plastic/rubber hose with
Jubillee clips and gaffer tape for the seal.

In my early days at RB Kingston one tenant blew the back of his house
out (and so of course got given a nice new one!). The immersion
heater stat failed shut so his DHW would get too hot unless he
remembered to turn it off - but evidently he didn't always remember.
He couldn't get the council in to fix it because the meter had been
bridged by a mate. Unfortunately repeated overheating of the water
led to the vent pipe furring up, and on the feed there was a
screwdown stopcock which acted as a non return valve. One night when
he had forgotten to turn off the IH the vent pipe finally furred
solid. The cylinder, full of superheated water under pressure,
finally burst filling the house with steam. It blew the back of the
house out just as if a bomb had gone off.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm

JhnWil875 wrote:

Someone in the gas industry told me that the gas company installed meters in 5
tower blocks each consisting of 174 Flats and found that about 12% of the gas
was stolen.

All they did was to put up posters in the entrance halls warning people about
the safety and criminal aspects of stealing gas, which made no difference
whatsoever to the amount being stolen.

The normal meter reader apparently found bypassed meters periodically with
varying degrees of competence including one which had been bypassed using a
piece of plastic/rubber hose with Jubillee clips and gaffer tape for the seal.

John.

John.




Doesn't surprise me at all. Why is the electricity supply protected
with so many indicators of tampering? It can't be because it is less
dangerous, maybe it is because electricity is perceived as less
dangerous thus tempting the lightfingered into abstraction?

Re danger; the wall of the engineering shop at my college was blown out
along with a 3ph distribution board. The explosion was *allegedly*
caused by a wandering rodent.


Rgds Richard

In article om, Dave
Liquorice writes
Only for a *tiny* part of the country. I was in Bristol, it was windy
but nothing special. I doubt anywhere much north of Oxford noticed
anything.


Ah, but it affected Lunnun therefore BIG NEWS.

J.
--
John Rouse

In article , Richard Savage
writes

It has always perplexed me that there appears to be nothing preventing
the removal of my gas meter and insertion of appropriate pipe in its
place. There are no seals anywhere on my meter or the bracket that it
is attached to.

Ah, but if you're not CORGI registered you're not allowed to do it.

J.
--
John Rouse

In article , Wanderer
writes
Not sure if it's still done, but it's quite easy. Energy is measured at
bulk supply points (i.e.where the local leccy companies get it from the
national grid). Deduct all the units billed, factor in an allowance for
unmetered supplies, like street lights, and system losses, and you have
an indication of unbilled units.

I can remember in a certain place I lived they knew from the substation
which two streets were consuming twice as much as they were paying for.

J.
--
John Rouse

Quite right. I've just rewired a friends house in Sheffield and their
off peak is an absolute bargain but the YEB say they can't get that
tarriff now. If they stay as they are they can keep it but if they
want the meter or any related equipment changing they'll have to stick
it on the more expensive tarriff.

I don`t think they can force a tariff change just because they want to -
if any equipment needs replacing (including the cutout / meter) the
tariff stays as-is AFAIK. At the end of the day, tariffs are usually*
just different figures applied to the same meter reading(s).

* certainly at the small consumer end of the market - larger
installations where half-hourly readings come into play would be a
completely different kettle of fish :-p

--
Please add "[newsgroup]" in the subject of any personal replies via email
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--- My new email address has "ngspamtrap" & @btinternet.com in it ;-) ---

On Tue, 2 Mar 2004 20:52:41 -0000, in uk.d-i-y Colin Wilson
strung together this:

Quite right. I've just rewired a friends house in Sheffield and their
off peak is an absolute bargain but the YEB say they can't get that
tarriff now. If they stay as they are they can keep it but if they
want the meter or any related equipment changing they'll have to stick
it on the more expensive tarriff.

I don`t think they can force a tariff change just because they want to -
if any equipment needs replacing (including the cutout / meter) the
tariff stays as-is AFAIK. At the end of the day, tariffs are usually*
just different figures applied to the same meter reading(s).

That's what I thought. They're on a 60A supply and I wanted them to
get a new 100A cutout and new meter fitted, they have been in for
sometime. The 'not without a tarriff change' quote was apparently
mentioned quite a few times.
...

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd.

On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 20:58:23 GMT, Lurch wrote:

On Tue, 2 Mar 2004 20:52:41 -0000, in uk.d-i-y Colin Wilson
strung together this:

Quite right. I've just rewired a friends house in Sheffield and their
off peak is an absolute bargain but the YEB say they can't get that
tarriff now. If they stay as they are they can keep it but if they
want the meter or any related equipment changing they'll have to stick
it on the more expensive tarriff.

I don`t think they can force a tariff change just because they want to -
if any equipment needs replacing (including the cutout / meter) the
tariff stays as-is AFAIK. At the end of the day, tariffs are usually*
just different figures applied to the same meter reading(s).

That's what I thought. They're on a 60A supply and I wanted them to
get a new 100A cutout and new meter fitted, they have been in for
sometime. The 'not without a tarriff change' quote was apparently
mentioned quite a few times.

Yup, remember that you're dealing with half-educated chimps in most of
the call centres. They won't have a clue about tariff legislation,
they're programmed to come out with a standard set of responses that
favour the leccy company whatever the question, on the basis that the
customner equally won't have a clue whether what they're being told is
true.

On Tue, 2 Mar 2004 21:39:32 +0000, in uk.d-i-y Wanderer
strung together this:

On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 20:58:23 GMT, Lurch wrote:

On Tue, 2 Mar 2004 20:52:41 -0000, in uk.d-i-y Colin Wilson
strung together this:

Quite right. I've just rewired a friends house in Sheffield and their
off peak is an absolute bargain but the YEB say they can't get that
tarriff now. If they stay as they are they can keep it but if they
want the meter or any related equipment changing they'll have to stick
it on the more expensive tarriff.

I don`t think they can force a tariff change just because they want to -
if any equipment needs replacing (including the cutout / meter) the
tariff stays as-is AFAIK. At the end of the day, tariffs are usually*
just different figures applied to the same meter reading(s).

That's what I thought. They're on a 60A supply and I wanted them to
get a new 100A cutout and new meter fitted, they have been in for
sometime. The 'not without a tarriff change' quote was apparently
mentioned quite a few times.

Yup, remember that you're dealing with half-educated chimps in most of
the call centres. They won't have a clue about tariff legislation,
they're programmed to come out with a standard set of responses that
favour the leccy company whatever the question, on the basis that the
customner equally won't have a clue whether what they're being told is
true.

Quite true, I should have pointed out though that I thought this may
be the case but with it not being my supply I couldn't be arsed to get
involved.
...

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd.

That's what I thought. They're on a 60A supply and I wanted them to
get a new 100A cutout and new meter fitted, they have been in for
sometime. The 'not without a tarriff change' quote was apparently
mentioned quite a few times.

You could always ask them what would happen in the event of a fault with
the meter (its not unknown) - would they want to force a tariff change to
fix their faulty equipment ? - I think not...

If they give you gyp, www.energywatch.org.uk

In fact, you could always start by asking them what their thoughts are on
the matter, and when the call centre chimps start their "tariff change"
mantra, give `em the bad news courtesy of energywatch :-p

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