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Ring Door Bell with existing Chime
We've got one of the old Friedland 'ding-dong' chimes- it was fitted
when we bought the house and, as strange is it seems, we love it. It isn't electronic, just a nice, pure, 'ding dong'. Plus, it works like a Rolex- it just keeps going. I assumed for years it ran off transformer until someone used it when the power was off and I don't recall even even changing the batteries. We bought the house in 1997 so they've not done badly. I do check they aren't corroding etc now I know it isn't mains powered! From the above, the reasons we'd like to keep the chime should be obvious. I also don't want to mess around charging the battery in the Ring Unit but, it seems, in theory, you can (sometimes) keep the old chime and charge the Ring Unit- if you have a transformer bell which is compatible. However, as Ring is really aimed at the US market, compatible for an older chime seems to mean a chime than runs off a higher voltage than many UK ones- including ours- the Ring wants 16-24VAC, our chime is more like 8VAC as far as I can tell. I've an idea how to solve this- a relay which runs of, say 18-24VAC which the Ring 'sees' as the bell with the contacts acting as the bell push for the existing chime, running off 8VAC. Looking on the Internet, it seems others have done this and it works BUT as I suspected, there is a problem. The resistance of the relays is higher than bell coils so the standing current through the relay (to charge the Ring battery, causes a problem. I suspected this - I'd worked done some calculations using a best guess of the standing current drawn by the Ring unit. It seems this problem crops up elsewhere (not sure where) as Ring can supply a 'box' which you would connect across the relay coil. (I assume when used normally, ie not in 'work around' set ups, it would go across the chime coil). Said box obviously provides, in simple terms, an alternate current path for the standing current to charge the Ring unit. I suspect it is no more than a simple resistor, probably wire wound, able to handle the power etc. Needless to say, the box has a fancy name the "Ring Pro Power Kit". I get the impression they supply these boxes free if you need one but I'm not adverse to buying one- the Ring itself isn't cheap and a few quid more for a box, especially as I need to buy other bits etc, isn't an issue. HOWEVER, I'd like to understand exacting what is in it, especially as it seems I'm not using it quite as intended (even though someone else has has the same idea and used the box etc.) So, my question to the group, or at least anyone who has fitted a Ring and used the "Ring Pro Power Kit"- What is in it? It seems to be (about) the size of a large match box and has 2 wires. -- https://www.unitedway.org/our-impact...an-trafficking |
Ring Door Bell with existing Chime
On Monday, 15 June 2020 16:40:36 UTC+1, Brian Reay wrote:
We've got one of the old Friedland 'ding-dong' chimes- it was fitted when we bought the house and, as strange is it seems, we love it. It isn't electronic, just a nice, pure, 'ding dong'. Plus, it works like a Rolex- it just keeps going. I assumed for years it ran off transformer until someone used it when the power was off and I don't recall even even changing the batteries. We bought the house in 1997 so they've not done badly. I do check they aren't corroding etc now I know it isn't mains powered! From the above, the reasons we'd like to keep the chime should be obvious. I also don't want to mess around charging the battery in the Ring Unit but, it seems, in theory, you can (sometimes) keep the old chime and charge the Ring Unit- if you have a transformer bell which is compatible. However, as Ring is really aimed at the US market, compatible for an older chime seems to mean a chime than runs off a higher voltage than many UK ones- including ours- the Ring wants 16-24VAC, our chime is more like 8VAC as far as I can tell. I've an idea how to solve this- a relay which runs of, say 18-24VAC which the Ring 'sees' as the bell with the contacts acting as the bell push for the existing chime, running off 8VAC. Looking on the Internet, it seems others have done this and it works BUT as I suspected, there is a problem. The resistance of the relays is higher than bell coils so the standing current through the relay (to charge the Ring battery, causes a problem. I suspected this - I'd worked done some calculations using a best guess of the standing current drawn by the Ring unit. It seems this problem crops up elsewhere (not sure where) as Ring can supply a 'box' which you would connect across the relay coil. (I assume when used normally, ie not in 'work around' set ups, it would go across the chime coil). Said box obviously provides, in simple terms, an alternate current path for the standing current to charge the Ring unit. I suspect it is no more than a simple resistor, probably wire wound, able to handle the power etc. Needless to say, the box has a fancy name the "Ring Pro Power Kit". I get the impression they supply these boxes free if you need one but I'm not adverse to buying one- the Ring itself isn't cheap and a few quid more for a box, especially as I need to buy other bits etc, isn't an issue. HOWEVER, I'd like to understand exacting what is in it, especially as it seems I'm not using it quite as intended (even though someone else has has the same idea and used the box etc.) So, my question to the group, or at least anyone who has fitted a Ring and used the "Ring Pro Power Kit"- What is in it? It seems to be (about) the size of a large match box and has 2 wires. You sure love ambiguity. Assuming you're trying to run your friedland dingdong from a higher voltage, the simplest solution is to put a big fat capacitor in series with the friedland and feed that via a bridge rectifier from your 16-24v ac supply. Value required will need to be found by experiment, I'd start with maybe 2,200uF and expect to need to go up from there. 24v ac is about 35v peak so the C must be rated at least 40v, preferably 50v. Capacitor polarity is important of course. FWLIW this also much reduces power consumption. NT |
Ring Door Bell with existing Chime
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Ring Door Bell with existing Chime
On 15/06/2020 23:17, Dave W wrote:
That sounds like rubbish to me. The Friedland requires DC to make it ding, You sure about that? many old bells would work just as well off AC. -- Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy. Its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. Winston Churchill |
Ring Door Bell with existing Chime
I would say, unless the Amazon Ring has improved in the last year or so, the
quality of the audio is pretty poor. It seems the Google/Nest one is better according to reports. Being a bit of a stick in the mud, and not needing the video, then I have still got my old door phone. Your issue does seem a little odd. Are you saying that the unit has in fact got an output that can operate something else already built in?. The description you give seems to be a very complicated way they have made it work. All they really needed to do was make a supply capable of driving a relay. Brian -- ----- -- This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from... The Sofa of Brian Gaff... Blind user, so no pictures please Note this Signature is meaningless.! "Brian Reay" wrote in message ... We've got one of the old Friedland 'ding-dong' chimes- it was fitted when we bought the house and, as strange is it seems, we love it. It isn't electronic, just a nice, pure, 'ding dong'. Plus, it works like a Rolex- it just keeps going. I assumed for years it ran off transformer until someone used it when the power was off and I don't recall even even changing the batteries. We bought the house in 1997 so they've not done badly. I do check they aren't corroding etc now I know it isn't mains powered! From the above, the reasons we'd like to keep the chime should be obvious. I also don't want to mess around charging the battery in the Ring Unit but, it seems, in theory, you can (sometimes) keep the old chime and charge the Ring Unit- if you have a transformer bell which is compatible. However, as Ring is really aimed at the US market, compatible for an older chime seems to mean a chime than runs off a higher voltage than many UK ones- including ours- the Ring wants 16-24VAC, our chime is more like 8VAC as far as I can tell. I've an idea how to solve this- a relay which runs of, say 18-24VAC which the Ring 'sees' as the bell with the contacts acting as the bell push for the existing chime, running off 8VAC. Looking on the Internet, it seems others have done this and it works BUT as I suspected, there is a problem. The resistance of the relays is higher than bell coils so the standing current through the relay (to charge the Ring battery, causes a problem. I suspected this - I'd worked done some calculations using a best guess of the standing current drawn by the Ring unit. It seems this problem crops up elsewhere (not sure where) as Ring can supply a 'box' which you would connect across the relay coil. (I assume when used normally, ie not in 'work around' set ups, it would go across the chime coil). Said box obviously provides, in simple terms, an alternate current path for the standing current to charge the Ring unit. I suspect it is no more than a simple resistor, probably wire wound, able to handle the power etc. Needless to say, the box has a fancy name the "Ring Pro Power Kit". I get the impression they supply these boxes free if you need one but I'm not adverse to buying one- the Ring itself isn't cheap and a few quid more for a box, especially as I need to buy other bits etc, isn't an issue. HOWEVER, I'd like to understand exacting what is in it, especially as it seems I'm not using it quite as intended (even though someone else has has the same idea and used the box etc.) So, my question to the group, or at least anyone who has fitted a Ring and used the "Ring Pro Power Kit"- What is in it? It seems to be (about) the size of a large match box and has 2 wires. -- https://www.unitedway.org/our-impact...an-trafficking |
Ring Door Bell with existing Chime
On Mon, 15 Jun 2020 16:40:33 +0100, Brian Reay wrote:
We've got one of the old Friedland 'ding-dong' chimes- it was fitted when we bought the house and, as strange is it seems, we love it. It isn't electronic, just a nice, pure, 'ding dong'. Plus, it works like a Rolex- it just keeps going. I assumed for years it ran off transformer until someone used it when the power was off and I don't recall even even changing the batteries. We bought the house in 1997 so they've not done badly. I do check they aren't corroding etc now I know it isn't mains powered! From the above, the reasons we'd like to keep the chime should be obvious. I also don't want to mess around charging the battery in the Ring Unit but, it seems, in theory, you can (sometimes) keep the old chime and charge the Ring Unit- if you have a transformer bell which is compatible. However, as Ring is really aimed at the US market, compatible for an older chime seems to mean a chime than runs off a higher voltage than many UK ones- including ours- the Ring wants 16-24VAC, our chime is more like 8VAC as far as I can tell. I've an idea how to solve this- a relay which runs of, say 18-24VAC which the Ring 'sees' as the bell with the contacts acting as the bell push for the existing chime, running off 8VAC. Looking on the Internet, it seems others have done this and it works BUT as I suspected, there is a problem. The resistance of the relays is higher than bell coils so the standing current through the relay (to charge the Ring battery, causes a problem. I suspected this - I'd worked done some calculations using a best guess of the standing current drawn by the Ring unit. It seems this problem crops up elsewhere (not sure where) as Ring can supply a 'box' which you would connect across the relay coil. (I assume when used normally, ie not in 'work around' set ups, it would go across the chime coil). Said box obviously provides, in simple terms, an alternate current path for the standing current to charge the Ring unit. I suspect it is no more than a simple resistor, probably wire wound, able to handle the power etc. Needless to say, the box has a fancy name the "Ring Pro Power Kit". I get the impression they supply these boxes free if you need one but I'm not adverse to buying one- the Ring itself isn't cheap and a few quid more for a box, especially as I need to buy other bits etc, isn't an issue. HOWEVER, I'd like to understand exacting what is in it, especially as it seems I'm not using it quite as intended (even though someone else has has the same idea and used the box etc.) So, my question to the group, or at least anyone who has fitted a Ring and used the "Ring Pro Power Kit"- What is in it? It seems to be (about) the size of a large match box and has 2 wires. I have now read all 9 pages on the Ring website of users comments about their wired bells not working, and I recommend you do the same. One of them even says he got his Friedland ding-dong working and it didn't mind 24V instead of its 16V max spec. There seem to be three problems. 1. The Ring app has three settings for external bells - None, Digital, and Mechanical. When the bellpush is pressed, the power contacts are shorted by a solid-state relay for the Digital and Mechanical options. For Digital, the contacts are shorted for a fixed time that triggers the digital bell to play its tune. For Mechanical, the contacts are shorted for as long as the button is held pressed. 2. The power terminals make contact with the inner PCB via springs, which probably corrode after a time in the wet outdoors, so need cleaning and tweaking after a time. 3. The Ring website gives wiring diagrams for various bell arrangements, and the 'Ring Pro Power Kit' is only needed across the bell unit if it is the only bell. One of the commenters opened up the unit and found a LCB710 normal-closed solid-state relay and a varistor of some kind. The Friedland man said the chimes passed sufficient current not to need it. It could be that without it, the charging current might be enough to ring an electronic bell continously. Or perhaps one electronic bell does not pass enough charging current. The unit should look like a low resistance at the charging current level, but go high resistance when the Ring button shorts its power terminals, supplying the full 24V to the bell. If you keep the batteries in your Friedland and use a 24V transformer for the Ring, you would need a 24VAC relay in series with the Ring button and its contacts across the Friedland wires. You would need the 'Ring Pro Power Kit' across the relay coil for the reasons above. -- Dave W |
Ring Door Bell with existing Chime
On Monday, 15 June 2020 23:17:35 UTC+1, Dave W wrote:
On Mon, 15 Jun 2020 13:38:13 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote: On Monday, 15 June 2020 16:40:36 UTC+1, Brian Reay wrote: We've got one of the old Friedland 'ding-dong' chimes- it was fitted when we bought the house and, as strange is it seems, we love it. It isn't electronic, just a nice, pure, 'ding dong'. Plus, it works like a Rolex- it just keeps going. I assumed for years it ran off transformer until someone used it when the power was off and I don't recall even even changing the batteries. We bought the house in 1997 so they've not done badly. I do check they aren't corroding etc now I know it isn't mains powered! From the above, the reasons we'd like to keep the chime should be obvious. I also don't want to mess around charging the battery in the Ring Unit but, it seems, in theory, you can (sometimes) keep the old chime and charge the Ring Unit- if you have a transformer bell which is compatible. However, as Ring is really aimed at the US market, compatible for an older chime seems to mean a chime than runs off a higher voltage than many UK ones- including ours- the Ring wants 16-24VAC, our chime is more like 8VAC as far as I can tell. I've an idea how to solve this- a relay which runs of, say 18-24VAC which the Ring 'sees' as the bell with the contacts acting as the bell push for the existing chime, running off 8VAC. Looking on the Internet, it seems others have done this and it works BUT as I suspected, there is a problem. The resistance of the relays is higher than bell coils so the standing current through the relay (to charge the Ring battery, causes a problem. I suspected this - I'd worked done some calculations using a best guess of the standing current drawn by the Ring unit. It seems this problem crops up elsewhere (not sure where) as Ring can supply a 'box' which you would connect across the relay coil. (I assume when used normally, ie not in 'work around' set ups, it would go across the chime coil). Said box obviously provides, in simple terms, an alternate current path for the standing current to charge the Ring unit. I suspect it is no more than a simple resistor, probably wire wound, able to handle the power etc. Needless to say, the box has a fancy name the "Ring Pro Power Kit". I get the impression they supply these boxes free if you need one but I'm not adverse to buying one- the Ring itself isn't cheap and a few quid more for a box, especially as I need to buy other bits etc, isn't an issue. HOWEVER, I'd like to understand exacting what is in it, especially as it seems I'm not using it quite as intended (even though someone else has has the same idea and used the box etc.) So, my question to the group, or at least anyone who has fitted a Ring and used the "Ring Pro Power Kit"- What is in it? It seems to be (about) the size of a large match box and has 2 wires. You sure love ambiguity. Assuming you're trying to run your friedland dingdong from a higher voltage, the simplest solution is to put a big fat capacitor in series with the friedland and feed that via a bridge rectifier from your 16-24v ac supply. Value required will need to be found by experiment, I'd start with maybe 2,200uF and expect to need to go up from there. 24v ac is about 35v peak so the C must be rated at least 40v, preferably 50v. Capacitor polarity is important of course. FWLIW this also much reduces power consumption. NT That sounds like rubbish to me. You didn't understand it The Friedland requires DC to make it ding, it uses a solenoid so it doesn't much care if it gets ac or dc. and then nothing to make it dong. right It runs off a battery, not 8V AC as the OP seems to think. A big fat capacitor won't pass DC from a bridge rectifier. It does in fact pass a single pulse of current when dc is fed to it. Perhaps you meant to say feed the Friedland from a bridge rectifier which is driven by a big fat capacitor from 16-24V supply? no As the capacitor passes AC it would have to be an unpolarised type. Or two 4700uF back to back to make 2200uf result. it doesn't I too can't understand the OP's post, or the Ring website with its mysterious PowerPro unit. It seems to me that it just needs a 24V AC relay driven by the Ring setup driven by its 24V transformer, and the battery powered chime is connected to its contacts instead of the old button. There's a selection of options. I thought I'd mention a rather simpler one. NT |
Ring Door Bell with existing Chime
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Ring Door Bell with existing Chime
On Tuesday, 16 June 2020 19:45:38 UTC+1, Dave W wrote:
On Tue, 16 Jun 2020 08:17:27 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote: On Monday, 15 June 2020 23:17:35 UTC+1, Dave W wrote: On Mon, 15 Jun 2020 13:38:13 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote: On Monday, 15 June 2020 16:40:36 UTC+1, Brian Reay wrote: We've got one of the old Friedland 'ding-dong' chimes- it was fitted when we bought the house and, as strange is it seems, we love it. It isn't electronic, just a nice, pure, 'ding dong'. Plus, it works like a Rolex- it just keeps going. I assumed for years it ran off transformer until someone used it when the power was off and I don't recall even even changing the batteries. We bought the house in 1997 so they've not done badly. I do check they aren't corroding etc now I know it isn't mains powered! From the above, the reasons we'd like to keep the chime should be obvious. I also don't want to mess around charging the battery in the Ring Unit but, it seems, in theory, you can (sometimes) keep the old chime and charge the Ring Unit- if you have a transformer bell which is compatible. However, as Ring is really aimed at the US market, compatible for an older chime seems to mean a chime than runs off a higher voltage than many UK ones- including ours- the Ring wants 16-24VAC, our chime is more like 8VAC as far as I can tell. I've an idea how to solve this- a relay which runs of, say 18-24VAC which the Ring 'sees' as the bell with the contacts acting as the bell push for the existing chime, running off 8VAC. Looking on the Internet, it seems others have done this and it works BUT as I suspected, there is a problem. The resistance of the relays is higher than bell coils so the standing current through the relay (to charge the Ring battery, causes a problem. I suspected this - I'd worked done some calculations using a best guess of the standing current drawn by the Ring unit. It seems this problem crops up elsewhere (not sure where) as Ring can supply a 'box' which you would connect across the relay coil. (I assume when used normally, ie not in 'work around' set ups, it would go across the chime coil). Said box obviously provides, in simple terms, an alternate current path for the standing current to charge the Ring unit. I suspect it is no more than a simple resistor, probably wire wound, able to handle the power etc. Needless to say, the box has a fancy name the "Ring Pro Power Kit". I get the impression they supply these boxes free if you need one but I'm not adverse to buying one- the Ring itself isn't cheap and a few quid more for a box, especially as I need to buy other bits etc, isn't an issue. HOWEVER, I'd like to understand exacting what is in it, especially as it seems I'm not using it quite as intended (even though someone else has has the same idea and used the box etc.) So, my question to the group, or at least anyone who has fitted a Ring and used the "Ring Pro Power Kit"- What is in it? It seems to be (about) the size of a large match box and has 2 wires. You sure love ambiguity. Assuming you're trying to run your friedland dingdong from a higher voltage, the simplest solution is to put a big fat capacitor in series with the friedland and feed that via a bridge rectifier from your 16-24v ac supply. Value required will need to be found by experiment, I'd start with maybe 2,200uF and expect to need to go up from there. 24v ac is about 35v peak so the C must be rated at least 40v, preferably 50v. Capacitor polarity is important of course. FWLIW this also much reduces power consumption. NT That sounds like rubbish to me. You didn't understand it The Friedland requires DC to make it ding, it uses a solenoid so it doesn't much care if it gets ac or dc. and then nothing to make it dong. right It runs off a battery, not 8V AC as the OP seems to think. A big fat capacitor won't pass DC from a bridge rectifier. It does in fact pass a single pulse of current when dc is fed to it. Perhaps you meant to say feed the Friedland from a bridge rectifier which is driven by a big fat capacitor from 16-24V supply? no As the capacitor passes AC it would have to be an unpolarised type. Or two 4700uF back to back to make 2200uf result. it doesn't I too can't understand the OP's post, or the Ring website with its mysterious PowerPro unit. It seems to me that it just needs a 24V AC relay driven by the Ring setup driven by its 24V transformer, and the battery powered chime is connected to its contacts instead of the old button. There's a selection of options. I thought I'd mention a rather simpler one. NT Yea, quite right, I didn't understand it. Yes I was wrong thinking the Friedland required DC. I now understand your posting - the capacitor would send a pulse of current to the Friedland, but you'd need to remove its battery and short across the terminals, so that current up the bellpush terminals would ring the bell. Now, I should think the coil resistance is about 10 ohms, (the transformer is 8V 1A, or a 6V DC battery would pass a reasonable 600mA). Or might even be 5 ohms. To get a 1 second time constant with 10 ohms requires a capacitor of 100,000 uF. You need a long time constant so that the dong doesn't happen until the caller releases the button. you don't need anything like that, just enough kick to get the plunger moving fast enough so it hits the ding. It'll hit its dong as soon as it mechinically can, the bellpush doesn't enter into that. 5-10 thousand uF should be fine, maybe less. Don't forget it's seeing well above its rated voltage which helps. NT |
Ring Door Bell with existing Chime
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Ring Door Bell with existing Chime
On Thursday, 18 June 2020 09:21:30 UTC+1, Dave W wrote:
On Tue, 16 Jun 2020 14:05:31 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote: On Tuesday, 16 June 2020 19:45:38 UTC+1, Dave W wrote: On Tue, 16 Jun 2020 08:17:27 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote: On Monday, 15 June 2020 23:17:35 UTC+1, Dave W wrote: On Mon, 15 Jun 2020 13:38:13 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote: On Monday, 15 June 2020 16:40:36 UTC+1, Brian Reay wrote: We've got one of the old Friedland 'ding-dong' chimes- it was fitted when we bought the house and, as strange is it seems, we love it.. It isn't electronic, just a nice, pure, 'ding dong'. Plus, it works like a Rolex- it just keeps going. I assumed for years it ran off transformer until someone used it when the power was off and I don't recall even even changing the batteries. We bought the house in 1997 so they've not done badly. I do check they aren't corroding etc now I know it isn't mains powered! From the above, the reasons we'd like to keep the chime should be obvious. I also don't want to mess around charging the battery in the Ring Unit but, it seems, in theory, you can (sometimes) keep the old chime and charge the Ring Unit- if you have a transformer bell which is compatible. However, as Ring is really aimed at the US market, compatible for an older chime seems to mean a chime than runs off a higher voltage than many UK ones- including ours- the Ring wants 16-24VAC, our chime is more like 8VAC as far as I can tell. I've an idea how to solve this- a relay which runs of, say 18-24VAC which the Ring 'sees' as the bell with the contacts acting as the bell push for the existing chime, running off 8VAC. Looking on the Internet, it seems others have done this and it works BUT as I suspected, there is a problem. The resistance of the relays is higher than bell coils so the standing current through the relay (to charge the Ring battery, causes a problem. I suspected this - I'd worked done some calculations using a best guess of the standing current drawn by the Ring unit. It seems this problem crops up elsewhere (not sure where) as Ring can supply a 'box' which you would connect across the relay coil. (I assume when used normally, ie not in 'work around' set ups, it would go across the chime coil). Said box obviously provides, in simple terms, an alternate current path for the standing current to charge the Ring unit. I suspect it is no more than a simple resistor, probably wire wound, able to handle the power etc. Needless to say, the box has a fancy name the "Ring Pro Power Kit". I get the impression they supply these boxes free if you need one but I'm not adverse to buying one- the Ring itself isn't cheap and a few quid more for a box, especially as I need to buy other bits etc, isn't an issue. HOWEVER, I'd like to understand exacting what is in it, especially as it seems I'm not using it quite as intended (even though someone else has has the same idea and used the box etc.) So, my question to the group, or at least anyone who has fitted a Ring and used the "Ring Pro Power Kit"- What is in it? It seems to be (about) the size of a large match box and has 2 wires. You sure love ambiguity. Assuming you're trying to run your friedland dingdong from a higher voltage, the simplest solution is to put a big fat capacitor in series with the friedland and feed that via a bridge rectifier from your 16-24v ac supply. Value required will need to be found by experiment, I'd start with maybe 2,200uF and expect to need to go up from there.. 24v ac is about 35v peak so the C must be rated at least 40v, preferably 50v. Capacitor polarity is important of course. FWLIW this also much reduces power consumption. NT That sounds like rubbish to me. You didn't understand it The Friedland requires DC to make it ding, it uses a solenoid so it doesn't much care if it gets ac or dc. and then nothing to make it dong. right It runs off a battery, not 8V AC as the OP seems to think. A big fat capacitor won't pass DC from a bridge rectifier. It does in fact pass a single pulse of current when dc is fed to it. Perhaps you meant to say feed the Friedland from a bridge rectifier which is driven by a big fat capacitor from 16-24V supply? no As the capacitor passes AC it would have to be an unpolarised type. Or two 4700uF back to back to make 2200uf result. it doesn't I too can't understand the OP's post, or the Ring website with its mysterious PowerPro unit. It seems to me that it just needs a 24V AC relay driven by the Ring setup driven by its 24V transformer, and the battery powered chime is connected to its contacts instead of the old button. There's a selection of options. I thought I'd mention a rather simpler one. NT Yea, quite right, I didn't understand it. Yes I was wrong thinking the Friedland required DC. I now understand your posting - the capacitor would send a pulse of current to the Friedland, but you'd need to remove its battery and short across the terminals, so that current up the bellpush terminals would ring the bell. Now, I should think the coil resistance is about 10 ohms, (the transformer is 8V 1A, or a 6V DC battery would pass a reasonable 600mA). Or might even be 5 ohms. To get a 1 second time constant with 10 ohms requires a capacitor of 100,000 uF. You need a long time constant so that the dong doesn't happen until the caller releases the button. you don't need anything like that, just enough kick to get the plunger moving fast enough so it hits the ding. It'll hit its dong as soon as it mechinically can, the bellpush doesn't enter into that. 5-10 thousand uF should be fine, maybe less. Don't forget it's seeing well above its rated voltage which helps. NT Of course it will hit the ding, but then it will immediately fall back to the dong. yes, ie it works correctly :) That is how they work. |
Ring Door Bell with existing Chime
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Ring Door Bell with existing Chime
On Saturday, 20 June 2020 15:43:41 UTC+1, Dave W wrote:
No they don't. You press the button and it goes ding, then relase the button and it goes dong. Unlike 'digital' bells which play the same tune however the button is pressed, you can get an idea of how desperate the caller is by the gap between ding and dong. I wired up one as a telephone ringer. The ding-dong superposed on the British ringing cadence gives ding...dong-ding...dong...............ding...dong-ding...dong... Well, it amused me at the time, and the neighbours appreciated it more than the Swedish foghorn I also had. Owain |
Ring Door Bell with existing Chime
On 20/06/2020 15:43, Dave W wrote:
On Sat, 20 Jun 2020 06:56:06 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Thursday, 18 June 2020 09:21:30 UTC+1, Dave W wrote: On Tue, 16 Jun 2020 14:05:31 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote: On Tuesday, 16 June 2020 19:45:38 UTC+1, Dave W wrote: On Tue, 16 Jun 2020 08:17:27 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote: On Monday, 15 June 2020 23:17:35 UTC+1, Dave W wrote: On Mon, 15 Jun 2020 13:38:13 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote: On Monday, 15 June 2020 16:40:36 UTC+1, Brian Reay wrote: We've got one of the old Friedland 'ding-dong' chimes- it was fitted when we bought the house and, as strange is it seems, we love it. It isn't electronic, just a nice, pure, 'ding dong'. Plus, it works like a Rolex- it just keeps going. I assumed for years it ran off transformer until someone used it when the power was off and I don't recall even even changing the batteries. We bought the house in 1997 so they've not done badly. I do check they aren't corroding etc now I know it isn't mains powered! From the above, the reasons we'd like to keep the chime should be obvious. I also don't want to mess around charging the battery in the Ring Unit but, it seems, in theory, you can (sometimes) keep the old chime and charge the Ring Unit- if you have a transformer bell which is compatible. However, as Ring is really aimed at the US market, compatible for an older chime seems to mean a chime than runs off a higher voltage than many UK ones- including ours- the Ring wants 16-24VAC, our chime is more like 8VAC as far as I can tell. I've an idea how to solve this- a relay which runs of, say 18-24VAC which the Ring 'sees' as the bell with the contacts acting as the bell push for the existing chime, running off 8VAC. Looking on the Internet, it seems others have done this and it works BUT as I suspected, there is a problem. The resistance of the relays is higher than bell coils so the standing current through the relay (to charge the Ring battery, causes a problem. I suspected this - I'd worked done some calculations using a best guess of the standing current drawn by the Ring unit. It seems this problem crops up elsewhere (not sure where) as Ring can supply a 'box' which you would connect across the relay coil. (I assume when used normally, ie not in 'work around' set ups, it would go across the chime coil). Said box obviously provides, in simple terms, an alternate current path for the standing current to charge the Ring unit. I suspect it is no more than a simple resistor, probably wire wound, able to handle the power etc. Needless to say, the box has a fancy name the "Ring Pro Power Kit". I get the impression they supply these boxes free if you need one but I'm not adverse to buying one- the Ring itself isn't cheap and a few quid more for a box, especially as I need to buy other bits etc, isn't an issue. HOWEVER, I'd like to understand exacting what is in it, especially as it seems I'm not using it quite as intended (even though someone else has has the same idea and used the box etc.) So, my question to the group, or at least anyone who has fitted a Ring and used the "Ring Pro Power Kit"- What is in it? It seems to be (about) the size of a large match box and has 2 wires. You sure love ambiguity. Assuming you're trying to run your friedland dingdong from a higher voltage, the simplest solution is to put a big fat capacitor in series with the friedland and feed that via a bridge rectifier from your 16-24v ac supply. Value required will need to be found by experiment, I'd start with maybe 2,200uF and expect to need to go up from there. 24v ac is about 35v peak so the C must be rated at least 40v, preferably 50v. Capacitor polarity is important of course. FWLIW this also much reduces power consumption. NT That sounds like rubbish to me. You didn't understand it The Friedland requires DC to make it ding, it uses a solenoid so it doesn't much care if it gets ac or dc. and then nothing to make it dong. right It runs off a battery, not 8V AC as the OP seems to think. A big fat capacitor won't pass DC from a bridge rectifier. It does in fact pass a single pulse of current when dc is fed to it. Perhaps you meant to say feed the Friedland from a bridge rectifier which is driven by a big fat capacitor from 16-24V supply? no As the capacitor passes AC it would have to be an unpolarised type. Or two 4700uF back to back to make 2200uf result. it doesn't I too can't understand the OP's post, or the Ring website with its mysterious PowerPro unit. It seems to me that it just needs a 24V AC relay driven by the Ring setup driven by its 24V transformer, and the battery powered chime is connected to its contacts instead of the old button. There's a selection of options. I thought I'd mention a rather simpler one. NT Yea, quite right, I didn't understand it. Yes I was wrong thinking the Friedland required DC. I now understand your posting - the capacitor would send a pulse of current to the Friedland, but you'd need to remove its battery and short across the terminals, so that current up the bellpush terminals would ring the bell. Now, I should think the coil resistance is about 10 ohms, (the transformer is 8V 1A, or a 6V DC battery would pass a reasonable 600mA). Or might even be 5 ohms. To get a 1 second time constant with 10 ohms requires a capacitor of 100,000 uF. You need a long time constant so that the dong doesn't happen until the caller releases the button. you don't need anything like that, just enough kick to get the plunger moving fast enough so it hits the ding. It'll hit its dong as soon as it mechinically can, the bellpush doesn't enter into that. 5-10 thousand uF should be fine, maybe less. Don't forget it's seeing well above its rated voltage which helps. NT Of course it will hit the ding, but then it will immediately fall back to the dong. yes, ie it works correctly :) That is how they work. No they don't. You press the button and it goes ding, then relase the button and it goes dong. Unlike 'digital' bells which play the same tune however the button is pressed, you can get an idea of how desperate the caller is by the gap between ding and dong. So you think they put the mercury switch in just for show? Obviously no one who has responded has seen the bell in question. -- https://www.antislavery.org/slavery-...forced-labour/ |
Ring Door Bell with existing Chime
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Ring Door Bell with existing Chime
On 20/06/2020 20:00, Brian Reay wrote:
We've got one of the old Friedland 'ding-dong' chimes- it was fitted when we bought the house and, as strange is it seems, we love it. It isn't electronic, just a nice, pure, 'ding dong'. Plus, it works like a Rolex- it just keeps going. I assumed for years it ran off transformer until someone used it when the power was off and I don't recall even even changing the batteries. We bought the house in 1997 so they've not done badly. I do check they aren't corroding etc now I know it isn't mains powered! From the above, the reasons we'd like to keep the chime should be obvious. I also don't want to mess around charging the battery in the Ring Unit but, it seems, in theory, you can (sometimes) keep the old chime and charge the Ring Unit- if you have a transformer bell which is compatible. However, as Ring is really aimed at the US market, compatible for an older chime seems to mean a chime than runs off a higher voltage than many UK ones- including ours- the Ring wants 16-24VAC, our chime is more like 8VAC as far as I can tell. I've an idea how to solve this- a relay which runs of, say 18-24VAC which the Ring 'sees' as the bell with the contacts acting as the bell push for the existing chime, running off 8VAC. Looking on the Internet, it seems others have done this and it works BUT as I suspected, there is a problem. The resistance of the relays is higher than bell coils so the standing current through the relay (to charge the Ring battery, causes a problem. I suspected this - I'd worked done some calculations using a best guess of the standing current drawn by the Ring unit. It seems this problem crops up elsewhere (not sure where) as Ring can supply a 'box' which you would connect across the relay coil. (I assume when used normally, ie not in 'work around' set ups, it would go across the chime coil). Said box obviously provides, in simple terms, an alternate current path for the standing current to charge the Ring unit. I suspect it is no more than a simple resistor, probably wire wound, able to handle the power etc. Needless to say, the box has a fancy name the "Ring Pro Power Kit". I get the impression they supply these boxes free if you need one but I'm not adverse to buying one- the Ring itself isn't cheap and a few quid more for a box, especially as I need to buy other bits etc, isn't an issue. HOWEVER, I'd like to understand exacting what is in it, especially as it seems I'm not using it quite as intended (even though someone else has has the same idea and used the box etc.) So, my question to the group, or at least anyone who has fitted a Ring and used the "Ring Pro Power Kit"- What is in it? It seems to be (about) the size of a large match box and has 2 wires. Obviously no one who has responded has seen the bell in question. If it is necessary to see the item in question, perhaps you should have chosen a different mechanism for your query than an incomprehensible and turgid wall of text. -- Spike |
Ring Door Bell with existing Chime
On Saturday, 20 June 2020 15:43:41 UTC+1, Dave W wrote:
On Sat, 20 Jun 2020 06:56:06 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote: On Thursday, 18 June 2020 09:21:30 UTC+1, Dave W wrote: On Tue, 16 Jun 2020 14:05:31 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote: On Tuesday, 16 June 2020 19:45:38 UTC+1, Dave W wrote: On Tue, 16 Jun 2020 08:17:27 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote: On Monday, 15 June 2020 23:17:35 UTC+1, Dave W wrote: On Mon, 15 Jun 2020 13:38:13 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote: On Monday, 15 June 2020 16:40:36 UTC+1, Brian Reay wrote: We've got one of the old Friedland 'ding-dong' chimes- it was fitted when we bought the house and, as strange is it seems, we love it. It isn't electronic, just a nice, pure, 'ding dong'. Plus, it works like a Rolex- it just keeps going. I assumed for years it ran off transformer until someone used it when the power was off and I don't recall even even changing the batteries. We bought the house in 1997 so they've not done badly. I do check they aren't corroding etc now I know it isn't mains powered! From the above, the reasons we'd like to keep the chime should be obvious. I also don't want to mess around charging the battery in the Ring Unit but, it seems, in theory, you can (sometimes) keep the old chime and charge the Ring Unit- if you have a transformer bell which is compatible. However, as Ring is really aimed at the US market, compatible for an older chime seems to mean a chime than runs off a higher voltage than many UK ones- including ours- the Ring wants 16-24VAC, our chime is more like 8VAC as far as I can tell. I've an idea how to solve this- a relay which runs of, say 18-24VAC which the Ring 'sees' as the bell with the contacts acting as the bell push for the existing chime, running off 8VAC. Looking on the Internet, it seems others have done this and it works BUT as I suspected, there is a problem. The resistance of the relays is higher than bell coils so the standing current through the relay (to charge the Ring battery, causes a problem. I suspected this - I'd worked done some calculations using a best guess of the standing current drawn by the Ring unit. It seems this problem crops up elsewhere (not sure where) as Ring can supply a 'box' which you would connect across the relay coil. (I assume when used normally, ie not in 'work around' set ups, it would go across the chime coil). Said box obviously provides, in simple terms, an alternate current path for the standing current to charge the Ring unit. I suspect it is no more than a simple resistor, probably wire wound, able to handle the power etc. Needless to say, the box has a fancy name the "Ring Pro Power Kit". I get the impression they supply these boxes free if you need one but I'm not adverse to buying one- the Ring itself isn't cheap and a few quid more for a box, especially as I need to buy other bits etc, isn't an issue. HOWEVER, I'd like to understand exacting what is in it, especially as it seems I'm not using it quite as intended (even though someone else has has the same idea and used the box etc.) So, my question to the group, or at least anyone who has fitted a Ring and used the "Ring Pro Power Kit"- What is in it? It seems to be (about) the size of a large match box and has 2 wires. You sure love ambiguity. Assuming you're trying to run your friedland dingdong from a higher voltage, the simplest solution is to put a big fat capacitor in series with the friedland and feed that via a bridge rectifier from your 16-24v ac supply. Value required will need to be found by experiment, I'd start with maybe 2,200uF and expect to need to go up from there. 24v ac is about 35v peak so the C must be rated at least 40v, preferably 50v. Capacitor polarity is important of course. FWLIW this also much reduces power consumption. NT That sounds like rubbish to me. You didn't understand it The Friedland requires DC to make it ding, it uses a solenoid so it doesn't much care if it gets ac or dc. and then nothing to make it dong. right It runs off a battery, not 8V AC as the OP seems to think. A big fat capacitor won't pass DC from a bridge rectifier. It does in fact pass a single pulse of current when dc is fed to it. |
Ring Door Bell with existing Chime
On Saturday, 20 June 2020 23:34:27 UTC+1, Dave W wrote:
On Sat, 20 Jun 2020 21:00:23 +0100, Brian Reay wrote: On 20/06/2020 15:43, Dave W wrote: On Sat, 20 Jun 2020 06:56:06 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote: On Thursday, 18 June 2020 09:21:30 UTC+1, Dave W wrote: On Tue, 16 Jun 2020 14:05:31 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote: On Tuesday, 16 June 2020 19:45:38 UTC+1, Dave W wrote: On Tue, 16 Jun 2020 08:17:27 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote: On Monday, 15 June 2020 23:17:35 UTC+1, Dave W wrote: On Mon, 15 Jun 2020 13:38:13 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote: On Monday, 15 June 2020 16:40:36 UTC+1, Brian Reay wrote: We've got one of the old Friedland 'ding-dong' chimes- it was fitted when we bought the house and, as strange is it seems, we love it. It isn't electronic, just a nice, pure, 'ding dong'. Plus, it works like a Rolex- it just keeps going. I assumed for years it ran off transformer until someone used it when the power was off and I don't recall even even changing the batteries. We bought the house in 1997 so they've not done badly. I do check they aren't corroding etc now I know it isn't mains powered! From the above, the reasons we'd like to keep the chime should be obvious. I also don't want to mess around charging the battery in the Ring Unit but, it seems, in theory, you can (sometimes) keep the old chime and charge the Ring Unit- if you have a transformer bell which is compatible. However, as Ring is really aimed at the US market, compatible for an older chime seems to mean a chime than runs off a higher voltage than many UK ones- including ours- the Ring wants 16-24VAC, our chime is more like 8VAC as far as I can tell. I've an idea how to solve this- a relay which runs of, say 18-24VAC which the Ring 'sees' as the bell with the contacts acting as the bell push for the existing chime, running off 8VAC. Looking on the Internet, it seems others have done this and it works BUT as I suspected, there is a problem. The resistance of the relays is higher than bell coils so the standing current through the relay (to charge the Ring battery, causes a problem. I suspected this - I'd worked done some calculations using a best guess of the standing current drawn by the Ring unit. It seems this problem crops up elsewhere (not sure where) as Ring can supply a 'box' which you would connect across the relay coil. (I assume when used normally, ie not in 'work around' set ups, it would go across the chime coil). Said box obviously provides, in simple terms, an alternate current path for the standing current to charge the Ring unit. I suspect it is no more than a simple resistor, probably wire wound, able to handle the power etc. Needless to say, the box has a fancy name the "Ring Pro Power Kit". I get the impression they supply these boxes free if you need one but I'm not adverse to buying one- the Ring itself isn't cheap and a few quid more for a box, especially as I need to buy other bits etc, isn't an issue. HOWEVER, I'd like to understand exacting what is in it, especially as it seems I'm not using it quite as intended (even though someone else has has the same idea and used the box etc.) So, my question to the group, or at least anyone who has fitted a Ring and used the "Ring Pro Power Kit"- What is in it? It seems to be (about) the size of a large match box and has 2 wires. You sure love ambiguity. Assuming you're trying to run your friedland dingdong from a higher voltage, the simplest solution is to put a big fat capacitor in series with the friedland and feed that via a bridge rectifier from your 16-24v ac supply. Value required will need to be found by experiment, I'd start with maybe 2,200uF and expect to need to go up from there. 24v ac is about 35v peak so the C must be rated at least 40v, preferably 50v. Capacitor polarity is important of course. FWLIW this also much reduces power consumption. NT That sounds like rubbish to me. You didn't understand it The Friedland requires DC to make it ding, it uses a solenoid so it doesn't much care if it gets ac or dc. and then nothing to make it dong. right It runs off a battery, not 8V AC as the OP seems to think. A big fat capacitor won't pass DC from a bridge rectifier. It does in fact pass a single pulse of current when dc is fed to it. Perhaps you meant to say feed the Friedland from a bridge rectifier which is driven by a big fat capacitor from 16-24V supply? no As the capacitor passes AC it would have to be an unpolarised type. Or two 4700uF back to back to make 2200uf result. it doesn't I too can't understand the OP's post, or the Ring website with its mysterious PowerPro unit. It seems to me that it just needs a 24V AC relay driven by the Ring setup driven by its 24V transformer, and the battery powered chime is connected to its contacts instead of the old button. There's a selection of options. I thought I'd mention a rather simpler one. NT Yea, quite right, I didn't understand it. Yes I was wrong thinking the Friedland required DC. I now understand your posting - the capacitor would send a pulse of current to the Friedland, but you'd need to remove its battery and short across the terminals, so that current up the bellpush terminals would ring the bell. Now, I should think the coil resistance is about 10 ohms, (the transformer is 8V 1A, or a 6V DC battery would pass a reasonable 600mA). Or might even be 5 ohms. To get a 1 second time constant with 10 ohms requires a capacitor of 100,000 uF. You need a long time constant so that the dong doesn't happen until the caller releases the button. you don't need anything like that, just enough kick to get the plunger moving fast enough so it hits the ding. It'll hit its dong as soon as it mechinically can, the bellpush doesn't enter into that. 5-10 thousand uF should be fine, maybe less. Don't forget it's seeing well above its rated voltage which helps. NT Of course it will hit the ding, but then it will immediately fall back to the dong. yes, ie it works correctly :) That is how they work. No they don't. You press the button and it goes ding, then relase the button and it goes dong. Unlike 'digital' bells which play the same tune however the button is pressed, you can get an idea of how desperate the caller is by the gap between ding and dong. So you think they put the mercury switch in just for show? They put those in to freak out millennials. They saw it coming. The tilt switch reduces battery energy use, reduces risk of overheating & keeps it sounding if the switch was held/jammed down, so was optional. Obviously no one who has responded has seen the bell in question. They don't all have mercury switches. This is the first time you've implied that yours has one. Either way what I mentioned works. Either way a relay & 2nd psu also works. NT |
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