Hi, I have a switch in my kitchen which has a red light on it. This is the
power switch for my fridge freezer. I noticed the red light on switch is
slightly flickering. Tried to google and all I could find was that the neon
bulb might be going. Just wondered if anyone knows what it could be. Many
thanks.

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...h-1433913-.htm

Jayney09 m wrote

Hi, I have a switch in my kitchen which has a red light on it. This is the
power switch for my fridge freezer. I noticed the red light on switch is
slightly flickering. Tried to google and all I could find was that the
neon
bulb might be going. Just wondered if anyone knows what it could be.

Thats the problem, the neon ends up doing that.

Nothing to worry about.

On 30/05/2020 20:44, Jayney09 wrote:
Hi, I have a switch in my kitchen which has a red light on it. This is the
power switch for my fridge freezer. I noticed the red light on switch is
slightly flickering. Tried to google and all I could find was that the neon
bulb might be going. Just wondered if anyone knows what it could be. Many
thanks.

Neons go dim and flickery as they age. Ignore it.

--
Max Demian

On 30/05/2020 20:44, Jayney09 wrote:
Hi, I have a switch in my kitchen which has a red light on it. This is the
power switch for my fridge freezer. I noticed the red light on switch is
slightly flickering. Tried to google and all I could find was that the neon
bulb might be going. Just wondered if anyone knows what it could be. Many
thanks.



Don't worry about it
Neon do flicker and possibly more at the end of their life.
Even if the neon completely fails and the red light goes out the socket
will still work as normal.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On Sun, 31 May 2020 05:50:40 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

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On Saturday, 30 May 2020 21:35:38 UTC+1, alan_m wrote:

Don't worry about it
Neon do flicker and possibly more at the end of their life.
Even if the neon completely fails and the red light goes out the socket
will still work as normal.

A warning light that does not work should always be replaced, covered, or marked as broken, since is necessary to have a warning that the warning light cannot give a warning.

--
(c) John Stockton, near London, UK. Using Google Groups. |
Mail: - or as Reply-To, if any. |

On 30/05/2020 23:48, Dr S Lartius wrote:
On Saturday, 30 May 2020 21:35:38 UTC+1, alan_m wrote:

Don't worry about it
Neon do flicker and possibly more at the end of their life.
Even if the neon completely fails and the red light goes out the socket
will still work as normal.

A warning light that does not work should always be replaced, covered, or marked as broken, since is necessary to have a warning that the warning light cannot give a warning.


If the OP is willing to spend 21 pence (incl VAT) on a replacement neon
then maybe cost effective but otherwise the dead neon will not make any
difference to the operation of the switch.

https://www.rapidonline.com/rvfm-ne-...-ended-42-0300


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

Jayney09 wrote:
Hi, I have a switch in my kitchen which has a red light on it. This is the
power switch for my fridge freezer. I noticed the red light on switch is
slightly flickering. Tried to google and all I could find was that the neon
bulb might be going. Just wondered if anyone knows what it could be. Many
thanks.


When you open it for a look, it might be an NE-2 family bulb,
plus a current limiting resistor. Like this.

Mains ---- 220K limiting resistor -------- NE-2 ------+
|
Mains ------------------------------------------------+

(The limiting resistor can be soldered to the defective bulb.
You can barely see the solder joint in this picture.)

https://www.homemade-circuits.com/wp...h-resistor.jpg

The bulb type may not be fixtured, which means additional
work during replacement. They just put legs on 'em.

A bit of polyolefin tubing, can cover the exposed wire
legs on the components. Polyolefin tubing comes in
three foot lengths, and in various diameters. The
diameter chosen, should be double the diameter of
the thing to be covered (making allowance for the
diameter of the new solder joints or the diameter of
the resistor body).

https://www.wesbellwireandcable.com/.../cuttubing.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat-shrink_tubing

The polyolefin tube might be more expensive than the bulb :-)

Such tubing is preferred, compared to electrical tape.

*******

The specifications can be somewhat misleading.

https://www.jameco.com/Jameco/Products/ProdDS/27351.pdf # NE-2

0.3mA Current
90VDC Striking voltage (operating is around 60VDC)
@120V 150Kohm 1/4watt resistor
@220V 330Kohm 1/4watt resistor
25000 hours Life

https://www.jameco.com/Jameco/Produc...dDS/210315.pdf # NE-2H

1.9mA Current
90VDC Striking voltage (operating is around 60VDC)
@120V 33Kohm 1/4watt resistor
@220V ??Kohm 1/4watt resistor
25000 hours Life

One bulb is taller than the other, so you can measure the existing
bulb, to see which type it is.

Those are two common types. There are some other, very
nice larger bulbs, which will be harder to find.

I guess electric fry pans still need those as indicators,
and that's why someone still makes them.

https://www.homemade-circuits.com/ne...tion-circuits/

As the resistor value is changed, more of the "leg" lights up.
If you purposely start with a higher resistance, like 1 megohm,
the NE-2 may not light along its entire length. You get a
subdued glow.

If the resistor is too small and you run too much power through
them, they "arc over" and there is a secondary lighting reaction.
The color is a lot hotter looking (like an angry purple) and
if run in that condition for a minute or two, the bulb might
crack or melt or burst.

The objective, is to not run the bulb too energetically.
That ensures a longer life. And the life is definitely
not 25,000 hours trouble free. They will wink and blink
and start to fail, well before 25,000 hours has passed.
I suppose when the electrodes are well and truly blackened,
that will be at the 25,000 hour mark.

The two example bulbs above, have cylindrical electrodes.
Some neon bulbs have flat plates, and those can carry
a bit more current. Since I don't use those, I can not
give a guess as to operating life.

*******

This is a separate, irrelevant topic.

Any of the web pages which talk about "relaxation oscillators",
the capacitors used for those, are the smaller "orange drop" style
ones. I have a tray of caps suitable for that purpose, orange drop
ones at 400V and 600VDC. You can build fun little circuits
with R and C components and the bulbs will flash repetitively,
in a more reliably timed sequence. Not the random flashing they
get when the electrodes are worn on them. The capacitor values
should be kept low, because if you use too high a value,
that puts too many joules through the bulb per flash (they'll go
purple on you). Just remember that the supplies used for
experiments like that, say 90VDC or ten 9V batteries in series,
are dangerous items, because if you're being electrocuted by
one, you "can't let go". DC isn't the best choice for muscle
contractions. Very nasty.

http://www.netzener.net/index.php/pr...eon-goofy-lite

+150VDC -------+
|
4.7Megohm
}
+---------------------+
| |
| 100Kohm === softens and extends flash
0.22uf 200V |
| orange X NE-2
| drop (mylar) X (bulb strikes at 90VDC so
| | input voltage must be at least 90VDC)
Return -------+---------------------+

You can get a tray of resistors for only pennies per resistor,
when you buy 100 pak assortments. And this can give some values
to play with.

And remember when playing with crap like that, that 0.22uF might
stay charged, after the input supply is disconnected. You have
to be careful where you stick your fingers and so on :-) I used to
play with this stuff as a kid, and I managed to tire of this stuff,
without getting stung once. Not all my experiments turned out
that lucky. The ignition coil got me pretty good.

I didn't use a plugin breadboard at the time, but breadboards
have an upper limit on voltage before they break down. And so
there's a limit to how high a voltage you can apply to these.
Unfortunately, that's not stated in the datasheet, what the maximum
voltage is that can be applied. Some of the orange drop capacitors
(the very largest ones I've got), the legs are too stout to fit
in the holes. Breadboards like this allow doing experiments,
without having to solder stuff, or beat up the legs by
twisting the legs on stuff together.

http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1734497.pdf

It's more tempting to play with circuits like on that web
page, if you happen to buy an entire bag of NE-2 bulbs.
They're pretty cheap on a per-item basis, if you buy a bag.

Neon bulbs work with AC or DC. AC lights both legs.
DC lights one leg (as polarity dictates).

You will tire of them pretty quickly, and then you'd be stuck
with a lifetime supply of "replacement bulbs".

Paul

Well, neons eventually lose their ability to strike, and this tends to end
up with flickering.
If you can be bothered to take it apart then you could change it, they tend
to be little two wire bulbs with a resistor in series with them.
How old is it?
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Jayney09" m wrote in
message oupdirect.com...
Hi, I have a switch in my kitchen which has a red light on it. This is the
power switch for my fridge freezer. I noticed the red light on switch is
slightly flickering. Tried to google and all I could find was that the
neon
bulb might be going. Just wondered if anyone knows what it could be. Many
thanks.

--
for full context, visit
https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...h-1433913-.htm

However he may rely on the light to tell him if the supply is there.

Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
Jayney09 m wrote

Hi, I have a switch in my kitchen which has a red light on it. This is
the
power switch for my fridge freezer. I noticed the red light on switch is
slightly flickering. Tried to google and all I could find was that the
neon
bulb might be going. Just wondered if anyone knows what it could be.

That's the problem, the neon ends up doing that.

Nothing to worry about.

Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote

However he may rely on the light to tell him if the supply is there.

You still get that when its flickering.

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
Jayney09 m wrote

Hi, I have a switch in my kitchen which has a red light on it. This is
the
power switch for my fridge freezer. I noticed the red light on switch is
slightly flickering. Tried to google and all I could find was that the
neon
bulb might be going. Just wondered if anyone knows what it could be.

That's the problem, the neon ends up doing that.

Nothing to worry about.

On Sun, 31 May 2020 17:42:52 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH troll**** unread

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On 30/05/2020 23:48, Dr S Lartius wrote:
On Saturday, 30 May 2020 21:35:38 UTC+1, alan_m wrote:

Don't worry about it
Neon do flicker and possibly more at the end of their life.
Even if the neon completely fails and the red light goes out the socket
will still work as normal.

A warning light that does not work should always be replaced, covered, or marked as broken, since is necessary to have a warning that the warning light cannot give a warning.


It's not a warning light INHO.

It's an indication light.

--
Adam

On 31/05/2020 10:46:53, ARW wrote:
On 30/05/2020 23:48, Dr S Lartius wrote:
On Saturday, 30 May 2020 21:35:38 UTC+1, alan_mÂ* wrote:
Don't worry about it
Neon do flicker and possibly more at the end of their life.
Even if the neon completely fails and the red light goes out the socket
will still work as normal.

A warning light that does not work should always be replaced, covered,
or marked as broken, since is necessary to have a warning that the
warning light cannot give a warning.


It's not a warning light INHO.

It's an indication light.

It might also be a functional light, to ensure the freezer still works
at low temperatures.

More reason why a non working light should be replaced with one of the
same type.

On 31/05/2020 12:43, Fredxx wrote:
On 31/05/2020 10:46:53, ARW wrote:
On 30/05/2020 23:48, Dr S Lartius wrote:
On Saturday, 30 May 2020 21:35:38 UTC+1, alan_mÂ* wrote:
Don't worry about it
Neon do flicker and possibly more at the end of their life.
Even if the neon completely fails and the red light goes out the socket
will still work as normal.

A warning light that does not work should always be replaced,
covered, or marked as broken, since is necessary to have a warning
that the warning light cannot give a warning.


It's not a warning light INHO.

It's an indication light.

It might also be a functional light, to ensure the freezer still works
at low temperatures.



And the chances of that being true in this case?

--
Adam

On 31/05/2020 12:43, Fredxx wrote:


It might also be a functional light, to ensure the freezer still works
at low temperatures.

And how does the fridge/freezer communicate this status information to a
flickering neon in a switch?

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 31/05/2020 12:43, Fredxx wrote:
On 31/05/2020 10:46:53, ARW wrote:
On 30/05/2020 23:48, Dr S Lartius wrote:
On Saturday, 30 May 2020 21:35:38 UTC+1, alan_mÂ* wrote:
Don't worry about it
Neon do flicker and possibly more at the end of their life.
Even if the neon completely fails and the red light goes out the socket
will still work as normal.

A warning light that does not work should always be replaced,
covered, or marked as broken, since is necessary to have a warning
that the warning light cannot give a warning.


It's not a warning light INHO.

It's an indication light.

It might also be a functional light, to ensure the freezer still works
at low temperatures.

More reason why a non working light should be replaced with one of the
same type.

"Hi, I have a switch in my kitchen which has a red light on it."

Implies that it is in a 13A wall socket (or possibly a spur box or even
a 13A plug) rather than part of the FF. A neon wouldn't generate enough
heat to affect the functioning of the FF in any case.

--
Max Demian

|


Just get a new wall plate - less than a fiver.

On 31/05/2020 14:34, John wrote:

|


Just get a new wall plate - less than a fiver.


Even cheaper if you buy one without the "optional extra" of a neon
indicator:-)



--
Adam

On 31/05/2020 16:43, ARW wrote:
On 31/05/2020 14:34, John wrote:
Â* |


Just get a new wall plate - less than a fiver.


Even cheaper if you buy one without the "optional extra" of a neon
indicator:-)



But there is nothing wrong with the existing switch - just the
indicator is flickering which it may do for another year before going out.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 31/05/2020 17:42, alan_m wrote:
On 31/05/2020 16:43, ARW wrote:
On 31/05/2020 14:34, John wrote:
Â* |


Just get a new wall plate - less than a fiver.


Even cheaper if you buy one without the "optional extra" of a neon
indicator:-)



But there is nothing wrong with the existing switchÂ* - just the
indicator is flickering which it may do for another year before going out.


Might flicker for another 10 years:-)

And that's about the going rate for a reply from homeownershub.


--
Adam

On 31/05/2020 17:42, alan_m wrote:
On 31/05/2020 16:43, ARW wrote:
On 31/05/2020 14:34, John wrote:
Â* |


Just get a new wall plate - less than a fiver.


Even cheaper if you buy one without the "optional extra" of a neon
indicator:-)



But there is nothing wrong with the existing switchÂ* - just the
indicator is flickering which it may do for another year before going out.

well buy a new neon lamp and fit it


--
There is nothing a fleet of dispatchable nuclear power plants cannot do
that cannot be done worse and more expensively and with higher carbon
emissions and more adverse environmental impact by adding intermittent
renewable energy.

On 31/05/2020 16:43, ARW wrote:
On 31/05/2020 14:34, John wrote:
Â* |


Just get a new wall plate - less than a fiver.


Even cheaper if you buy one without the "optional extra" of a neon
indicator:-)




And cheaper still is a piece of white gaffer tape over the light :-)

"Fredxx" wrote in message
...
On 31/05/2020 10:46:53, ARW wrote:
On 30/05/2020 23:48, Dr S Lartius wrote:
On Saturday, 30 May 2020 21:35:38 UTC+1, alan_m wrote:
Don't worry about it
Neon do flicker and possibly more at the end of their life.
Even if the neon completely fails and the red light goes out the socket
will still work as normal.

A warning light that does not work should always be replaced, covered,
or marked as broken, since is necessary to have a warning that the
warning light cannot give a warning.


It's not a warning light INHO.

It's an indication light.

It might also be a functional light, to ensure the freezer still works at
low temperatures.

Nope, those are never neons and are inside the freezer.

More reason why a non working light should be replaced with one of the
same type.

Not in this case.

On 31/05/2020 18:49, Andrew wrote:
On 31/05/2020 16:43, ARW wrote:
On 31/05/2020 14:34, John wrote:
Â* |


Just get a new wall plate - less than a fiver.


Even cheaper if you buy one without the "optional extra" of a neon
indicator:-)




And cheaper still is a piece of white gaffer tape over the light :-)

Or use red for the authentic look.

--
Adam

On Saturday, 30 May 2020 20:44:05 UTC+1, Jayney09 wrote:

Hi, I have a switch in my kitchen which has a red light on it. This is the
power switch for my fridge freezer. I noticed the red light on switch is
slightly flickering. Tried to google and all I could find was that the neon
bulb might be going. Just wondered if anyone knows what it could be. Many
thanks.

Neons do that. They fail eventually - it makes zero difference to safety or operation.

"alan_m" wrote in message
...
On 31/05/2020 16:43, ARW wrote:
On 31/05/2020 14:34, John wrote:
|


Just get a new wall plate - less than a fiver.


Even cheaper if you buy one without the "optional extra" of a neon
indicator:-)



But there is nothing wrong with the existing switch - just the indicator
is flickering which it may do for another year before going out.

One of mine has been doing it for a decade.

On Mon, 1 Jun 2020 04:06:00 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile pest's latest troll**** unread

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Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

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