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Default cement mixer rotates too fast

just bought a second hand belle 130 cement mixer. to find out it rotates so
quick it is dangerous and pretty useless. if i changed the capacitor would it
resolve the issue.
should i change the complete motor.
feel stupid and lost money .....any advise appreciated

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...t-1432858-.htm


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Default cement mixer rotates too fast

On 24/05/2020 00:14, david wrote:

just bought a second hand belle 130 cement mixer. to find out it rotates so
quick it is dangerous and pretty useless. if i changed the capacitor
would it
resolve the issue.


No, the cap has no effect on the motor speed.

What speed is it rotating at (should be about 15 rpm or 4 secs for a
single complete rotation)?

should i change the complete motor.


Is it the original motor?

You might be able to change the size of one of the pulleys to get a
different gearing.

You can see what size it is originally supplied with:

http://www.free-instruction-manuals..../pa_349612.pdf

--
Cheers,

John.

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Default cement mixer rotates too fast

On Sunday, 24 May 2020 00:14:03 UTC+1, david wrote:
just bought a second hand belle 130 cement mixer. to find out it rotates so
quick it is dangerous and pretty useless. if i changed the capacitor would it
resolve the issue.
should i change the complete motor.
feel stupid and lost money .....any advise appreciated


show us the mechanism & motor so we can see what's wrong.
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Default cement mixer rotates too fast

I'd have asked exactly where it was made and what for exactly.
Is it an induction motor or a brushed on. There may well be some wiring
that is configured for the motor which is wrong. Seems a little odd to me if
its as new.

More likely a new, and incorrect motor pulley or something like that, I'd
have thought.
Brian

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"david" m wrote in
message updirect.com...
just bought a second hand belle 130 cement mixer. to find out it rotates
so
quick it is dangerous and pretty useless. if i changed the capacitor would
it
resolve the issue.
should i change the complete motor.
feel stupid and lost money .....any advise appreciated

--
for full context, visit
https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...t-1432858-.htm



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Default cement mixer rotates too fast

Yes and not on home owners clubs web site, use a cloud service for the
picture and post the link to this thread.
Brian

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wrote in message
...
On Sunday, 24 May 2020 00:14:03 UTC+1, david wrote:
just bought a second hand belle 130 cement mixer. to find out it rotates
so
quick it is dangerous and pretty useless. if i changed the capacitor
would it
resolve the issue.
should i change the complete motor.
feel stupid and lost money .....any advise appreciated


show us the mechanism & motor so we can see what's wrong.





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Default cement mixer rotates too fast

On 24/05/2020 00:14, david wrote:
just bought a second hand belle 130 cement mixer. to find out it rotates so
quick it is dangerous and pretty useless. if i changed the capacitor
would it
resolve the issue.
should i change the complete motor.
feel stupid and lost money .....any advise appreciated


the makers spec* is 26.5 rpm so count how many revolutions yours does in
a minute and compare

*http://www.altrad-belle.com/index.php?p=products&id=31

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Default cement mixer rotates too fast

On 24/05/2020 00:14, david wrote:
just bought a second hand belle 130 cement mixer. to find out it rotates so
quick it is dangerous and pretty useless. if i changed the capacitor
would it
resolve the issue.
should i change the complete motor.
feel stupid and lost money .....any advise appreciated

Three thoughts:
1. Change the motor pulley for a smaller one or the drum pulley for a
larger one.
2. Check the motor speed on the rating plate, it should probably be
1425'ish RPM but perhaps someone has replaced the motor with a 2800'ish
RPM motor.
3. Sell it and buy another
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Default cement mixer rotates too fast

On 24/05/2020 02:19, John Rumm wrote:
On 24/05/2020 00:14, david wrote:

just bought a second hand belle 130 cement mixer. to find out it
rotates so
quick it is dangerous and pretty useless. if i changed the capacitor
would it
resolve the issue.


No, the cap has no effect on the motor speed.

What speed is it rotating at (should be about 15 rpm or 4 secs for a
single complete rotation)?

should i change the complete motor.


Is it the original motor?

Is it 110V being used on 230V mains ? :-)

You might be able to change the size of one of the pulleys to get a
different gearing.

You can see what size it is originally supplied with:

http://www.free-instruction-manuals..../pa_349612.pdf


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Default cement mixer rotates too fast

On 24/05/2020 11:02, Robin wrote:
On 24/05/2020 00:14, david wrote:
just bought a second hand belle 130 cement mixer. to find out it
rotates so
quick it is dangerous and pretty useless. if i changed the capacitor
would it
resolve the issue.
should i change the complete motor.
feel stupid and lost money .....any advise appreciated


the makers spec* is 26.5 rpm so count how many revolutions yours does in
a minute and compare

*http://www.altrad-belle.com/index.php?p=products&id=31


To be fair - if that is right it does seem a bit fast compared to most.


--
Cheers,

John.

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Default cement mixer rotates too fast

On Sunday, 24 May 2020 00:14:03 UTC+1, david wrote:
just bought a second hand belle 130 cement mixer. to find out it rotates so
quick it is dangerous and pretty useless. if i changed the capacitor would it
resolve the issue.
should i change the complete motor.
feel stupid and lost money .....any advise appreciated

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...t-1432858-.htm


There's only one possibility. Someone has fitted the wrong motor.
It's an induction motor, the smaller ones commonly run at either 1480 rpm or 2800rpm. (ish, ie a bit less than synchronous).
They come in standard sizes/frames/shaft diameters

BTW make sure the gearbox has oil, they don't last two minutes without.
If there's a lot of play in the gearbox, (twiddle the drum) may not be worth repairing.




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Default cement mixer rotates too fast

On Sunday, 24 May 2020 20:20:33 UTC+1, harry wrote:
On Sunday, 24 May 2020 00:14:03 UTC+1, david wrote:


just bought a second hand belle 130 cement mixer. to find out it rotates so
quick it is dangerous and pretty useless. if i changed the capacitor would it
resolve the issue.
should i change the complete motor.
feel stupid and lost money .....any advise appreciated


There's only one possibility. Someone has fitted the wrong motor.


or the wrong pulleys.
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Default cement mixer rotates too fast

On Monday, 25 May 2020 13:15:38 UTC+1, Robin wrote:
On 25/05/2020 11:27, tabbypurr wrote:
On Sunday, 24 May 2020 20:20:33 UTC+1, harry wrote:
On Sunday, 24 May 2020 00:14:03 UTC+1, david wrote:


just bought a second hand belle 130 cement mixer. to find out it rotates so
quick it is dangerous and pretty useless. if i changed the capacitor would it
resolve the issue.
should i change the complete motor.
feel stupid and lost money .....any advise appreciated


There's only one possibility. Someone has fitted the wrong motor.


or the wrong pulleys.


or that it's rotating at the designed speed but that's faster than the
average


or that it has the right motor & right pulleys but that the centrifugal speed regulator is not working. (More likely to apply to historic equipment.)


NT
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Default cement mixer rotates too fast

On Monday, 25 May 2020 15:41:31 UTC+1, wrote:
On Monday, 25 May 2020 13:15:38 UTC+1, Robin wrote:
On 25/05/2020 11:27, tabbypurr wrote:
On Sunday, 24 May 2020 20:20:33 UTC+1, harry wrote:
On Sunday, 24 May 2020 00:14:03 UTC+1, david wrote:


just bought a second hand belle 130 cement mixer. to find out it rotates so
quick it is dangerous and pretty useless. if i changed the capacitor would it
resolve the issue.
should i change the complete motor.
feel stupid and lost money .....any advise appreciated

There's only one possibility. Someone has fitted the wrong motor.

or the wrong pulleys.


or that it's rotating at the designed speed but that's faster than the
average


or that it has the right motor & right pulleys but that the centrifugal speed regulator is not working. (More likely to apply to historic equipment.)


NT


There is no such thing on an electric cement mixer.
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Default cement mixer rotates too fast

On Monday, 25 May 2020 20:41:18 UTC+1, harry wrote:
On Monday, 25 May 2020 15:41:31 UTC+1, tabby wrote:
On Monday, 25 May 2020 13:15:38 UTC+1, Robin wrote:
On 25/05/2020 11:27, tabbypurr wrote:
On Sunday, 24 May 2020 20:20:33 UTC+1, harry wrote:
On Sunday, 24 May 2020 00:14:03 UTC+1, david wrote:


just bought a second hand belle 130 cement mixer. to find out it rotates so
quick it is dangerous and pretty useless. if i changed the capacitor would it
resolve the issue.
should i change the complete motor.
feel stupid and lost money .....any advise appreciated

There's only one possibility. Someone has fitted the wrong motor.

or the wrong pulleys.


or that it's rotating at the designed speed but that's faster than the
average


or that it has the right motor & right pulleys but that the centrifugal speed regulator is not working. (More likely to apply to historic equipment.)


NT


There is no such thing on an electric cement mixer.


If you can show us the speed determining mechanism on every electric cement mixer ever made I might believe you.
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Default cement mixer rotates too fast

Try it at 110 volts

[g]

On Sunday, May 24, 2020 at 12:14:03 AM UTC+1, david wrote:
just bought a second hand belle 130 cement mixer. to find out it rotates so
quick it is dangerous and pretty useless. if i changed the capacitor would it
resolve the issue.
should i change the complete motor.
feel stupid and lost money .....any advise appreciated

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...t-1432858-.htm




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Default cement mixer rotates too fast

On 26/05/2020 13:20, George Miles wrote:
Try it at 110 volts

[g]

On Sunday, May 24, 2020 at 12:14:03 AM UTC+1, david wrote:
just bought a second hand belle 130 cement mixer. to find out it rotates so
quick it is dangerous and pretty useless. if i changed the capacitor would it
resolve the issue.
should i change the complete motor.
feel stupid and lost money .....any advise appreciated

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...t-1432858-.htm


Don't you mean "try it at 25 Hz"?
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Default cement mixer rotates too fast

On 26/05/2020 15:05, newshound wrote:
On 26/05/2020 13:20, George Miles wrote:
Try it at 110 volts

[g]

On Sunday, May 24, 2020 at 12:14:03 AM UTC+1, david wrote:
just bought a second hand belle 130 cement mixer. to find out it
rotates so
quick it is dangerous and pretty useless. if i changed the capacitor
would it
resolve the issue.
should i change the complete motor.
feel stupid and lost money .....any advise appreciated

--
for full context, visit
https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...t-1432858-.htm


Don't you mean "try it at 25 Hz"?

Don't think these are synchronous are they?


--
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look exactly the same afterwards."

Billy Connolly
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Default cement mixer rotates too fast

On 26/05/2020 16:38, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 26/05/2020 15:05, newshound wrote:
On 26/05/2020 13:20, George Miles wrote:
Try it at 110 volts

[g]

On Sunday, May 24, 2020 at 12:14:03 AM UTC+1, david wrote:
just bought a second hand belle 130 cement mixer. to find out it
rotates so
quick it is dangerous and pretty useless. if i changed the capacitor
would it
resolve the issue.
should i change the complete motor.
feel stupid and lost money .....any advise appreciated

--
for full context, visit
https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...t-1432858-.htm


Don't you mean "try it at 25 Hz"?

Don't think these are synchronous are they?


Fairly standard AC induction motor usually - although I have not looked
at that particular one.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/
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Default cement mixer rotates too fast

On 26/05/2020 13:20, George Miles wrote:
Try it at 110 volts

[g]

On Sunday, May 24, 2020 at 12:14:03 AM UTC+1, david wrote:
just bought a second hand belle 130 cement mixer. to find out it rotates so
quick it is dangerous and pretty useless. if i changed the capacitor would it
resolve the issue.
should i change the complete motor.
feel stupid and lost money .....any advise appreciated

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...t-1432858-.htm



Its probably a moot point anyway - the OP was on HOH - so he is unlikely
to ever see or respond the the thread again!

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/
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Default cement mixer rotates too fast

On Tuesday, 26 May 2020 17:38:41 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 26/05/2020 16:38, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 26/05/2020 15:05, newshound wrote:
On 26/05/2020 13:20, George Miles wrote:


Try it at 110 volts

[g]

On Sunday, May 24, 2020 at 12:14:03 AM UTC+1, david wrote:
just bought a second hand belle 130 cement mixer. to find out it
rotates so
quick it is dangerous and pretty useless. if i changed the capacitor
would it
resolve the issue.
should i change the complete motor.
feel stupid and lost money .....any advise appreciated

--
for full context, visit
https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...t-1432858-.htm


Don't you mean "try it at 25 Hz"?

Don't think these are synchronous are they?


Fairly standard AC induction motor usually - although I have not looked
at that particular one.


How to slow it depends on the gearing arrangement, whether pulleys (typical of old machines) or gear. Maybe show us how the motor drives the barrel on that one.

If all else fails the motor could be driven at reduced v & f or pulsed if it can provide enough torque. That can be done open loop rather than the old centrifugal speed governor technique.


NT


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Default cement mixer rotates too fast

Jimk wrote:
Wrote in message:
On Monday, 25 May 2020 20:41:18 UTC+1, harry wrote:
On Monday, 25 May 2020 15:41:31 UTC+1, tabby wrote:
On Monday, 25 May 2020 13:15:38 UTC+1, Robin wrote:
On 25/05/2020 11:27, tabbypurr wrote:
On Sunday, 24 May 2020 20:20:33 UTC+1, harry wrote:
On Sunday, 24 May 2020 00:14:03 UTC+1, david wrote:
just bought a second hand belle 130 cement mixer. to find out it rotates so
quick it is dangerous and pretty useless. if i changed the capacitor would it
resolve the issue.
should i change the complete motor.
feel stupid and lost money .....any advise appreciated
There's only one possibility. Someone has fitted the wrong motor.
or the wrong pulleys.

or that it's rotating at the designed speed but that's faster than the
average
or that it has the right motor & right pulleys but that the centrifugal speed regulator is not working. (More likely to apply to historic equipment.)


NT
There is no such thing on an electric cement mixer.

If you can show us the speed determining mechanism on every electric cement mixer ever made I might believe you.


Or you show us just one example....


Do you need an exploded parts diagram ?

http://www.altrad-belle.com/?p=parts&as=240

There's no variable speed drive on the thing.
I don't see a way to adjust it, via some control knob.

The motor is an induction motor, with a starter capacitor
strapped to the side of it (25uF for 230V model). The wiring
is not suggestive of "speed options", as you get on a
central heating ventilation fan (which has four taps for speed).
The electric motor runs at one speed (with "slip" as a
function of loading).

The beauty of the Belle documentation, is figuring out
what you own, and what diagram might pertain to it.
There's apparently a gasoline version (after market?) of that
thing too, as well as the notion of electric drive. And
multiple model years, all hiding under the same SKU, making
picking parts for it, a nuisance.

I could also find an example of a metallic worm gear for that
thing. But there's no sign of that in the diagram above.
The above has two levels of gearing.

Belt #46, wheel #45, cannot see pulley for other end of belt.
Gear #34, ring gear 15 on drum.

Because of the ratios and sizes involved in those, I
don't see home-retrofitting being a viable option. You
probably cannot reduce the tooth count on Gear #34 without
making it non-functional. And wheel #45, it might not fit
if you were to increase its diameter a large amount. It
would end up too big for the housing 4.

You could try looking for an induction motor with
a different pole count. But I don't remember any "bargains"
for motors the last time I looked.

https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/s...eed-d_649.html

I would try the after-sales support at the manufacturer,
for advice on changing the speed (with a parts change-out).
And only go to the small electric motor shop, as
a last resort. The motor purchased that way, might
well cost as much as the entire cement mixer (depending
on how obscure it was). The pricing doesn't have to make sense.

Sometimes, you can find an electric motor you want,
but the shaft size is wrong, or the shaft is keyed,
or the shaft is the wrong length. Some of these things
can be fixed, but again, at a price.

If you change the shaft speed, the forced air cooling
velocity inside the housing will be reduced. For whatever
that is worth. Motors come with various ventilation
styles.

There isn't that much room for the electric motor in this case.
You couldn't play the market for an "open ended" solution, like
say, a motor with twice the power, but occupying a larger volume.

*******

This isn't the same model, but it shows how complicated
they can make their exploded diagrams. This larger model
has several powering options. The diagram, again, shows
no evidence how the powering options are called out
(from a model numbering perspective).

https://www.magic-parts.co.uk/acatalog/maxi140.gif

Paul
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On 26/05/2020 17:39, John Rumm wrote:
On 26/05/2020 13:20, George Miles wrote:
Try it at 110 volts

[g]

On Sunday, May 24, 2020 at 12:14:03 AM UTC+1, david wrote:
just bought a second hand belle 130 cement mixer. to find out it
rotates so
quick it is dangerous and pretty useless. if i changed the capacitor
would it
resolve the issue.
should i change the complete motor.
feel stupid and lost money .....any advise appreciated

--
for full context, visit
https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...t-1432858-.htm



Its probably a moot point anyway - the OP was on HOH - so he is unlikely
to ever see or respond the the thread again!

All our posts are there, including the exploded diagram that
Paul posted.
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Default cement mixer rotates too fast

On Tuesday, 26 May 2020 18:53:00 UTC+1, Paul wrote:
Jimk wrote:
tabbypurr Wrote in message:
On Monday, 25 May 2020 20:41:18 UTC+1, harry wrote:
On Monday, 25 May 2020 15:41:31 UTC+1, tabby wrote:
On Monday, 25 May 2020 13:15:38 UTC+1, Robin wrote:
On 25/05/2020 11:27, tabbypurr wrote:
On Sunday, 24 May 2020 20:20:33 UTC+1, harry wrote:
On Sunday, 24 May 2020 00:14:03 UTC+1, david wrote:
just bought a second hand belle 130 cement mixer. to find out it rotates so
quick it is dangerous and pretty useless. if i changed the capacitor would it
resolve the issue.
should i change the complete motor.
feel stupid and lost money .....any advise appreciated
There's only one possibility. Someone has fitted the wrong motor.
or the wrong pulleys.

or that it's rotating at the designed speed but that's faster than the
average
or that it has the right motor & right pulleys but that the centrifugal speed regulator is not working. (More likely to apply to historic equipment.)


NT
There is no such thing on an electric cement mixer.
If you can show us the speed determining mechanism on every electric cement mixer ever made I might believe you.


Or you show us just one example....


Do you need an exploded parts diagram ?

http://www.altrad-belle.com/?p=parts&as=240

There's no variable speed drive on the thing.
I don't see a way to adjust it, via some control knob.

The motor is an induction motor, with a starter capacitor
strapped to the side of it (25uF for 230V model). The wiring
is not suggestive of "speed options", as you get on a
central heating ventilation fan (which has four taps for speed).
The electric motor runs at one speed (with "slip" as a
function of loading).

The beauty of the Belle documentation, is figuring out
what you own, and what diagram might pertain to it.
There's apparently a gasoline version (after market?) of that
thing too, as well as the notion of electric drive. And
multiple model years, all hiding under the same SKU, making
picking parts for it, a nuisance.

I could also find an example of a metallic worm gear for that
thing. But there's no sign of that in the diagram above.
The above has two levels of gearing.

Belt #46, wheel #45, cannot see pulley for other end of belt.
Gear #34, ring gear 15 on drum.

Because of the ratios and sizes involved in those, I
don't see home-retrofitting being a viable option. You
probably cannot reduce the tooth count on Gear #34 without
making it non-functional. And wheel #45, it might not fit
if you were to increase its diameter a large amount. It
would end up too big for the housing 4.

You could try looking for an induction motor with
a different pole count. But I don't remember any "bargains"
for motors the last time I looked.

https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/s...eed-d_649.html

I would try the after-sales support at the manufacturer,
for advice on changing the speed (with a parts change-out).
And only go to the small electric motor shop, as
a last resort. The motor purchased that way, might
well cost as much as the entire cement mixer (depending
on how obscure it was). The pricing doesn't have to make sense.

Sometimes, you can find an electric motor you want,
but the shaft size is wrong, or the shaft is keyed,
or the shaft is the wrong length. Some of these things
can be fixed, but again, at a price.

If you change the shaft speed, the forced air cooling
velocity inside the housing will be reduced. For whatever
that is worth. Motors come with various ventilation
styles.

There isn't that much room for the electric motor in this case.
You couldn't play the market for an "open ended" solution, like
say, a motor with twice the power, but occupying a larger volume.

*******

This isn't the same model, but it shows how complicated
they can make their exploded diagrams. This larger model
has several powering options. The diagram, again, shows
no evidence how the powering options are called out
(from a model numbering perspective).

https://www.magic-parts.co.uk/acatalog/maxi140.gif

Paul


The diagram shows both pulley/belt and ring gear. The ring gear is not going to be practical to increase the ratio of. The pulley I can't see if you can get a smaller one onto the motor, if you can that would slow it some. I don't know what sort of speed reduction results from charging the thing with mix. Baby belle mixers aren't a type I'm familiar with.

In the end, if it's capable of turning at all with mix in, then it can be slowed by other simple means, but I'd definitely start by
a) checking speed when fully loaded
b) gearing it down with a small motor pulley as far as possible.

Once those are done, a pulsing driver or VFD would slow it further. But it would also reduce the motor's cooling fan speed, and that would need a workaround, ie a separate small high speed fan. A slower motor is the other option.

I'm a bit more familiar with much older mixers, but not a lot.


NT
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Default cement mixer rotates too fast

On 26/05/2020 21:00, Andrew wrote:
On 26/05/2020 17:39, John Rumm wrote:
On 26/05/2020 13:20, George Miles wrote:
Try it at 110 volts

[g]

On Sunday, May 24, 2020 at 12:14:03 AM UTC+1, david wrote:
just bought a second hand belle 130 cement mixer. to find out it
rotates so
quick it is dangerous and pretty useless. if i changed the capacitor
would it
resolve the issue.
should i change the complete motor.
feel stupid and lost money .....any advise appreciated

--
for full context, visit
https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...t-1432858-.htm



Its probably a moot point anyway - the OP was on HOH - so he is
unlikely to ever see or respond the the thread again!

All our posts are there, including the exploded diagram that
Paul posted.


Yup, but think how many times have you actually seen any kind of
interaction with a HoH poster?

Many because they post to very old posts that the site decides to
promote by some odd algorithm, and finding them when they return to
29,000 pages ago is near on impossible, but even where they have started
a new thread it seems rare to get a response.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/


  #31   Report Post  
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Posts: 25,191
Default cement mixer rotates too fast

On 26/05/2020 18:30, wrote:
On Tuesday, 26 May 2020 17:38:41 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 26/05/2020 16:38, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 26/05/2020 15:05, newshound wrote:
On 26/05/2020 13:20, George Miles wrote:


Try it at 110 volts

[g]

On Sunday, May 24, 2020 at 12:14:03 AM UTC+1, david wrote:
just bought a second hand belle 130 cement mixer. to find
out it rotates so quick it is dangerous and pretty useless.
if i changed the capacitor would it resolve the issue.
should i change the complete motor. feel stupid and lost
money .....any advise appreciated

-- for full context, visit
https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...t-1432858-.htm




Don't you mean "try it at 25 Hz"?
Don't think these are synchronous are they?


Fairly standard AC induction motor usually - although I have not
looked at that particular one.


How to slow it depends on the gearing arrangement, whether pulleys
(typical of old machines) or gear. Maybe show us how the motor drives
the barrel on that one.


There is a kind of exploded diagram in the manual I linked:

http://www.free-instruction-manuals..../pa_349612.pdf


If all else fails the motor could be driven at reduced v & f or
pulsed if it can provide enough torque. That can be done open loop
rather than the old centrifugal speed governor technique.


NT



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
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|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/
  #32   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 9,066
Default cement mixer rotates too fast

On Tuesday, 26 May 2020 10:49:20 UTC+1, wrote:
On Monday, 25 May 2020 20:41:18 UTC+1, harry wrote:
On Monday, 25 May 2020 15:41:31 UTC+1, tabby wrote:
On Monday, 25 May 2020 13:15:38 UTC+1, Robin wrote:
On 25/05/2020 11:27, tabbypurr wrote:
On Sunday, 24 May 2020 20:20:33 UTC+1, harry wrote:
On Sunday, 24 May 2020 00:14:03 UTC+1, david wrote:


just bought a second hand belle 130 cement mixer. to find out it rotates so
quick it is dangerous and pretty useless. if i changed the capacitor would it
resolve the issue.
should i change the complete motor.
feel stupid and lost money .....any advise appreciated

There's only one possibility. Someone has fitted the wrong motor.

or the wrong pulleys.


or that it's rotating at the designed speed but that's faster than the
average

or that it has the right motor & right pulleys but that the centrifugal speed regulator is not working. (More likely to apply to historic equipment.)


NT


There is no such thing on an electric cement mixer.


If you can show us the speed determining mechanism on every electric cement mixer ever made I might believe you.


The speed is determined by the mains frequency and only varies slightly withe load.
As it is with all induction motors.

  #33   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 8,019
Default cement mixer rotates too fast

On 26/05/2020 16:38, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 26/05/2020 15:05, newshound wrote:
On 26/05/2020 13:20, George Miles wrote:
Try it at 110 volts

[g]

On Sunday, May 24, 2020 at 12:14:03 AM UTC+1, david wrote:
just bought a second hand belle 130 cement mixer. to find out it
rotates so
quick it is dangerous and pretty useless. if i changed the capacitor
would it
resolve the issue.
should i change the complete motor.
feel stupid and lost money .....any advise appreciated

--
for full context, visit
https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...t-1432858-.htm


Don't you mean "try it at 25 Hz"?

Don't think these are synchronous are they?


Well, no. But aren't they just normal AC induction motors? Typically
running unloaded at ~1450 rpm for a 4 pole version, only slightly slower
when loaded.
  #34   Report Post  
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Posts: 870
Default cement mixer rotates too fast

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 26/05/2020 15:05, newshound wrote:
On 26/05/2020 13:20, George Miles wrote:
Try it at 110 volts

[g]

On Sunday, May 24, 2020 at 12:14:03 AM UTC+1, david wrote:
just bought a second hand belle 130 cement mixer. to find out it
rotates so
quick it is dangerous and pretty useless. if i changed the capacitor
would it
resolve the issue.
should i change the complete motor.
feel stupid and lost money .....any advise appreciated

--
for full context, visit
https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...t-1432858-.htm


Don't you mean "try it at 25 Hz"?

Don't think these are synchronous are they?



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induction_motor

"For rotor currents to be induced, the speed of the
physical rotor must be lower than that of the stator's
rotating magnetic field N0; otherwise the magnetic field
would not be moving relative to the rotor conductors and
no currents would be induced.

As the speed of the rotor drops below synchronous speed,
the rotation rate of the magnetic field in the rotor
increases, inducing more current in the windings and
creating more torque.

The ratio between the rotation rate of the magnetic field
induced in the rotor and the rotation rate of the stator's
rotating field is called "slip".
"

And the label on the diagram to the right of it is labeled
"inherent slip", meaning it's a principle of operation and
not just an arbitrary measure of "mechanical load".

Paul
  #35   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 12,364
Default cement mixer rotates too fast

On Wednesday, 27 May 2020 13:48:03 UTC+1, harry wrote:
On Tuesday, 26 May 2020 10:49:20 UTC+1, tabby wrote:
On Monday, 25 May 2020 20:41:18 UTC+1, harry wrote:
On Monday, 25 May 2020 15:41:31 UTC+1, tabby wrote:
On Monday, 25 May 2020 13:15:38 UTC+1, Robin wrote:
On 25/05/2020 11:27, tabbypurr wrote:
On Sunday, 24 May 2020 20:20:33 UTC+1, harry wrote:
On Sunday, 24 May 2020 00:14:03 UTC+1, david wrote:


just bought a second hand belle 130 cement mixer. to find out it rotates so
quick it is dangerous and pretty useless. if i changed the capacitor would it
resolve the issue.
should i change the complete motor.
feel stupid and lost money .....any advise appreciated

There's only one possibility. Someone has fitted the wrong motor.

or the wrong pulleys.


or that it's rotating at the designed speed but that's faster than the
average

or that it has the right motor & right pulleys but that the centrifugal speed regulator is not working. (More likely to apply to historic equipment.)


NT

There is no such thing on an electric cement mixer.


If you can show us the speed determining mechanism on every electric cement mixer ever made I might believe you.


The speed is determined by the mains frequency and only varies slightly withe load.
As it is with all induction motors.


Of course there have been various other ways to drive them over the century plus they've been around.


  #36   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 9,066
Default cement mixer rotates too fast

On Thursday, 28 May 2020 23:30:42 UTC+1, wrote:
On Wednesday, 27 May 2020 13:48:03 UTC+1, harry wrote:
On Tuesday, 26 May 2020 10:49:20 UTC+1, tabby wrote:
On Monday, 25 May 2020 20:41:18 UTC+1, harry wrote:
On Monday, 25 May 2020 15:41:31 UTC+1, tabby wrote:
On Monday, 25 May 2020 13:15:38 UTC+1, Robin wrote:
On 25/05/2020 11:27, tabbypurr wrote:
On Sunday, 24 May 2020 20:20:33 UTC+1, harry wrote:
On Sunday, 24 May 2020 00:14:03 UTC+1, david wrote:

just bought a second hand belle 130 cement mixer. to find out it rotates so
quick it is dangerous and pretty useless. if i changed the capacitor would it
resolve the issue.
should i change the complete motor.
feel stupid and lost money .....any advise appreciated

There's only one possibility. Someone has fitted the wrong motor.

or the wrong pulleys.


or that it's rotating at the designed speed but that's faster than the
average

or that it has the right motor & right pulleys but that the centrifugal speed regulator is not working. (More likely to apply to historic equipment.)


NT

There is no such thing on an electric cement mixer.

If you can show us the speed determining mechanism on every electric cement mixer ever made I might believe you.


The speed is determined by the mains frequency and only varies slightly withe load.
As it is with all induction motors.


Of course there have been various other ways to drive them over the century plus they've been around.


By hand.
Plus with a diesel engine.
Forty years ago, electric mixers were unknown.

  #37   Report Post  
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Posts: 40,893
Default cement mixer rotates too fast



"harry" wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 28 May 2020 23:30:42 UTC+1, wrote:
On Wednesday, 27 May 2020 13:48:03 UTC+1, harry wrote:
On Tuesday, 26 May 2020 10:49:20 UTC+1, tabby wrote:
On Monday, 25 May 2020 20:41:18 UTC+1, harry wrote:
On Monday, 25 May 2020 15:41:31 UTC+1, tabby wrote:
On Monday, 25 May 2020 13:15:38 UTC+1, Robin wrote:
On 25/05/2020 11:27, tabbypurr wrote:
On Sunday, 24 May 2020 20:20:33 UTC+1, harry wrote:
On Sunday, 24 May 2020 00:14:03 UTC+1, david wrote:

just bought a second hand belle 130 cement mixer. to find
out it rotates so
quick it is dangerous and pretty useless. if i changed the
capacitor would it
resolve the issue.
should i change the complete motor.
feel stupid and lost money .....any advise appreciated

There's only one possibility. Someone has fitted the wrong
motor.

or the wrong pulleys.


or that it's rotating at the designed speed but that's faster
than the
average

or that it has the right motor & right pulleys but that the
centrifugal speed regulator is not working. (More likely to apply
to historic equipment.)


NT

There is no such thing on an electric cement mixer.

If you can show us the speed determining mechanism on every electric
cement mixer ever made I might believe you.

The speed is determined by the mains frequency and only varies slightly
withe load.
As it is with all induction motors.


Of course there have been various other ways to drive them over the
century plus they've been around.


By hand.
Plus with a diesel engine.
Forty years ago, electric mixers were unknown.


BULL****, I used one 45 years ago and it wasnt anything like new then.

  #38   Report Post  
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Posts: 15,560
Default UNBELIEVABLE: It's 19:02 am in Australia and the Senile Ozzietard has been out of Bed and TROLLING for almost FIFTEEN HOURS already!!!! LOL

On Fri, 29 May 2020 19:02:41 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

19:02??? And you've been up and trolling since 04:33 again! Just HOW sick
are you, you senile mental case?

--
Marland answering senile Rodent's statement, "I don't leak":
"That¢s because so much **** and ****e emanates from your gob that there is
nothing left to exit normally, your arsehole has clammed shut through disuse
and the end of prick is only clear because you are such a ******."
Message-ID:
  #39   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 12,364
Default cement mixer rotates too fast

On Friday, 29 May 2020 08:21:46 UTC+1, harry wrote:
On Thursday, 28 May 2020 23:30:42 UTC+1, tabby wrote:
On Wednesday, 27 May 2020 13:48:03 UTC+1, harry wrote:
On Tuesday, 26 May 2020 10:49:20 UTC+1, tabby wrote:
On Monday, 25 May 2020 20:41:18 UTC+1, harry wrote:
On Monday, 25 May 2020 15:41:31 UTC+1, tabby wrote:
On Monday, 25 May 2020 13:15:38 UTC+1, Robin wrote:
On 25/05/2020 11:27, tabbypurr wrote:
On Sunday, 24 May 2020 20:20:33 UTC+1, harry wrote:
On Sunday, 24 May 2020 00:14:03 UTC+1, david wrote:

just bought a second hand belle 130 cement mixer. to find out it rotates so
quick it is dangerous and pretty useless. if i changed the capacitor would it
resolve the issue.
should i change the complete motor.
feel stupid and lost money .....any advise appreciated

There's only one possibility. Someone has fitted the wrong motor.

or the wrong pulleys.


or that it's rotating at the designed speed but that's faster than the
average

or that it has the right motor & right pulleys but that the centrifugal speed regulator is not working. (More likely to apply to historic equipment.)


NT

There is no such thing on an electric cement mixer.

If you can show us the speed determining mechanism on every electric cement mixer ever made I might believe you.

The speed is determined by the mains frequency and only varies slightly withe load.
As it is with all induction motors.


Of course there have been various other ways to drive them over the century plus they've been around.


By hand.
Plus with a diesel engine.
Forty years ago, electric mixers were unknown.


so you know little of cement mixer history. What's new.
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