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cement mixer rotates too fast
just bought a second hand belle 130 cement mixer. to find out it rotates so
quick it is dangerous and pretty useless. if i changed the capacitor would it resolve the issue. should i change the complete motor. feel stupid and lost money .....any advise appreciated -- for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...t-1432858-.htm |
cement mixer rotates too fast
On 24/05/2020 00:14, david wrote:
just bought a second hand belle 130 cement mixer. to find out it rotates so quick it is dangerous and pretty useless. if i changed the capacitor would it resolve the issue. No, the cap has no effect on the motor speed. What speed is it rotating at (should be about 15 rpm or 4 secs for a single complete rotation)? should i change the complete motor. Is it the original motor? You might be able to change the size of one of the pulleys to get a different gearing. You can see what size it is originally supplied with: http://www.free-instruction-manuals..../pa_349612.pdf -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
cement mixer rotates too fast
On Sunday, 24 May 2020 00:14:03 UTC+1, david wrote:
just bought a second hand belle 130 cement mixer. to find out it rotates so quick it is dangerous and pretty useless. if i changed the capacitor would it resolve the issue. should i change the complete motor. feel stupid and lost money .....any advise appreciated show us the mechanism & motor so we can see what's wrong. |
cement mixer rotates too fast
I'd have asked exactly where it was made and what for exactly.
Is it an induction motor or a brushed on. There may well be some wiring that is configured for the motor which is wrong. Seems a little odd to me if its as new. More likely a new, and incorrect motor pulley or something like that, I'd have thought. Brian -- ----- -- This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from... The Sofa of Brian Gaff... Blind user, so no pictures please Note this Signature is meaningless.! "david" m wrote in message updirect.com... just bought a second hand belle 130 cement mixer. to find out it rotates so quick it is dangerous and pretty useless. if i changed the capacitor would it resolve the issue. should i change the complete motor. feel stupid and lost money .....any advise appreciated -- for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...t-1432858-.htm |
cement mixer rotates too fast
Yes and not on home owners clubs web site, use a cloud service for the
picture and post the link to this thread. Brian -- ----- -- This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from... The Sofa of Brian Gaff... Blind user, so no pictures please Note this Signature is meaningless.! wrote in message ... On Sunday, 24 May 2020 00:14:03 UTC+1, david wrote: just bought a second hand belle 130 cement mixer. to find out it rotates so quick it is dangerous and pretty useless. if i changed the capacitor would it resolve the issue. should i change the complete motor. feel stupid and lost money .....any advise appreciated show us the mechanism & motor so we can see what's wrong. |
cement mixer rotates too fast
On 24/05/2020 00:14, david wrote:
just bought a second hand belle 130 cement mixer. to find out it rotates so quick it is dangerous and pretty useless. if i changed the capacitor would it resolve the issue. should i change the complete motor. feel stupid and lost money .....any advise appreciated the makers spec* is 26.5 rpm so count how many revolutions yours does in a minute and compare *http://www.altrad-belle.com/index.php?p=products&id=31 -- Robin reply-to address is (intended to be) valid |
cement mixer rotates too fast
On 24/05/2020 00:14, david wrote:
just bought a second hand belle 130 cement mixer. to find out it rotates so quick it is dangerous and pretty useless. if i changed the capacitor would it resolve the issue. should i change the complete motor. feel stupid and lost money .....any advise appreciated Three thoughts: 1. Change the motor pulley for a smaller one or the drum pulley for a larger one. 2. Check the motor speed on the rating plate, it should probably be 1425'ish RPM but perhaps someone has replaced the motor with a 2800'ish RPM motor. 3. Sell it and buy another |
cement mixer rotates too fast
On 24/05/2020 02:19, John Rumm wrote:
On 24/05/2020 00:14, david wrote: just bought a second hand belle 130 cement mixer. to find out it rotates so quick it is dangerous and pretty useless. if i changed the capacitor would it resolve the issue. No, the cap has no effect on the motor speed. What speed is it rotating at (should be about 15 rpm or 4 secs for a single complete rotation)? should i change the complete motor. Is it the original motor? Is it 110V being used on 230V mains ? :-) You might be able to change the size of one of the pulleys to get a different gearing. You can see what size it is originally supplied with: http://www.free-instruction-manuals..../pa_349612.pdf |
cement mixer rotates too fast
On 24/05/2020 11:02, Robin wrote:
On 24/05/2020 00:14, david wrote: just bought a second hand belle 130 cement mixer. to find out it rotates so quick it is dangerous and pretty useless. if i changed the capacitor would it resolve the issue. should i change the complete motor. feel stupid and lost money .....any advise appreciated the makers spec* is 26.5 rpm so count how many revolutions yours does in a minute and compare *http://www.altrad-belle.com/index.php?p=products&id=31 To be fair - if that is right it does seem a bit fast compared to most. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
cement mixer rotates too fast
On Sunday, 24 May 2020 00:14:03 UTC+1, david wrote:
just bought a second hand belle 130 cement mixer. to find out it rotates so quick it is dangerous and pretty useless. if i changed the capacitor would it resolve the issue. should i change the complete motor. feel stupid and lost money .....any advise appreciated -- for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...t-1432858-.htm There's only one possibility. Someone has fitted the wrong motor. It's an induction motor, the smaller ones commonly run at either 1480 rpm or 2800rpm. (ish, ie a bit less than synchronous). They come in standard sizes/frames/shaft diameters BTW make sure the gearbox has oil, they don't last two minutes without. If there's a lot of play in the gearbox, (twiddle the drum) may not be worth repairing. |
cement mixer rotates too fast
On Sunday, 24 May 2020 20:20:33 UTC+1, harry wrote:
On Sunday, 24 May 2020 00:14:03 UTC+1, david wrote: just bought a second hand belle 130 cement mixer. to find out it rotates so quick it is dangerous and pretty useless. if i changed the capacitor would it resolve the issue. should i change the complete motor. feel stupid and lost money .....any advise appreciated There's only one possibility. Someone has fitted the wrong motor. or the wrong pulleys. |
cement mixer rotates too fast
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cement mixer rotates too fast
On Monday, 25 May 2020 13:15:38 UTC+1, Robin wrote:
On 25/05/2020 11:27, tabbypurr wrote: On Sunday, 24 May 2020 20:20:33 UTC+1, harry wrote: On Sunday, 24 May 2020 00:14:03 UTC+1, david wrote: just bought a second hand belle 130 cement mixer. to find out it rotates so quick it is dangerous and pretty useless. if i changed the capacitor would it resolve the issue. should i change the complete motor. feel stupid and lost money .....any advise appreciated There's only one possibility. Someone has fitted the wrong motor. or the wrong pulleys. or that it's rotating at the designed speed but that's faster than the average or that it has the right motor & right pulleys but that the centrifugal speed regulator is not working. (More likely to apply to historic equipment.) NT |
cement mixer rotates too fast
On Monday, 25 May 2020 15:41:31 UTC+1, wrote:
On Monday, 25 May 2020 13:15:38 UTC+1, Robin wrote: On 25/05/2020 11:27, tabbypurr wrote: On Sunday, 24 May 2020 20:20:33 UTC+1, harry wrote: On Sunday, 24 May 2020 00:14:03 UTC+1, david wrote: just bought a second hand belle 130 cement mixer. to find out it rotates so quick it is dangerous and pretty useless. if i changed the capacitor would it resolve the issue. should i change the complete motor. feel stupid and lost money .....any advise appreciated There's only one possibility. Someone has fitted the wrong motor. or the wrong pulleys. or that it's rotating at the designed speed but that's faster than the average or that it has the right motor & right pulleys but that the centrifugal speed regulator is not working. (More likely to apply to historic equipment.) NT There is no such thing on an electric cement mixer. |
cement mixer rotates too fast
On 25/05/2020 13:15, Robin wrote:
On 25/05/2020 11:27, wrote: On Sunday, 24 May 2020 20:20:33 UTC+1, harryÂ* wrote: On Sunday, 24 May 2020 00:14:03 UTC+1, davidÂ* wrote: just bought a second hand belle 130 cement mixer. to find out it rotates so quick it is dangerous and pretty useless. if i changed the capacitor would it resolve the issue. should i change the complete motor. feel stupid and lost money .....any advise appreciated There's only one possibility. Someone has fitted the wrong motor. or the wrong pulleys. or that it's rotating at the designed speed but that's faster than the average Just stick the Benny Hill theme tune on and work a bit faster. -- Adam |
cement mixer rotates too fast
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cement mixer rotates too fast
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cement mixer rotates too fast
On Monday, 25 May 2020 20:41:18 UTC+1, harry wrote:
On Monday, 25 May 2020 15:41:31 UTC+1, tabby wrote: On Monday, 25 May 2020 13:15:38 UTC+1, Robin wrote: On 25/05/2020 11:27, tabbypurr wrote: On Sunday, 24 May 2020 20:20:33 UTC+1, harry wrote: On Sunday, 24 May 2020 00:14:03 UTC+1, david wrote: just bought a second hand belle 130 cement mixer. to find out it rotates so quick it is dangerous and pretty useless. if i changed the capacitor would it resolve the issue. should i change the complete motor. feel stupid and lost money .....any advise appreciated There's only one possibility. Someone has fitted the wrong motor. or the wrong pulleys. or that it's rotating at the designed speed but that's faster than the average or that it has the right motor & right pulleys but that the centrifugal speed regulator is not working. (More likely to apply to historic equipment.) NT There is no such thing on an electric cement mixer. If you can show us the speed determining mechanism on every electric cement mixer ever made I might believe you. |
cement mixer rotates too fast
Try it at 110 volts
[g] On Sunday, May 24, 2020 at 12:14:03 AM UTC+1, david wrote: just bought a second hand belle 130 cement mixer. to find out it rotates so quick it is dangerous and pretty useless. if i changed the capacitor would it resolve the issue. should i change the complete motor. feel stupid and lost money .....any advise appreciated -- for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...t-1432858-.htm |
cement mixer rotates too fast
On 26/05/2020 13:20, George Miles wrote:
Try it at 110 volts [g] On Sunday, May 24, 2020 at 12:14:03 AM UTC+1, david wrote: just bought a second hand belle 130 cement mixer. to find out it rotates so quick it is dangerous and pretty useless. if i changed the capacitor would it resolve the issue. should i change the complete motor. feel stupid and lost money .....any advise appreciated -- for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...t-1432858-.htm Don't you mean "try it at 25 Hz"? |
cement mixer rotates too fast
On 26/05/2020 15:05, newshound wrote:
On 26/05/2020 13:20, George Miles wrote: Try it at 110 volts [g] On Sunday, May 24, 2020 at 12:14:03 AM UTC+1, david wrote: just bought a second hand belle 130 cement mixer. to find out it rotates so quick it is dangerous and pretty useless. if i changed the capacitor would it resolve the issue. should i change the complete motor. feel stupid and lost money .....any advise appreciated -- for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...t-1432858-.htm Don't you mean "try it at 25 Hz"? Don't think these are synchronous are they? -- "The great thing about Glasgow is that if there's a nuclear attack it'll look exactly the same afterwards." Billy Connolly |
cement mixer rotates too fast
On 26/05/2020 16:38, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 26/05/2020 15:05, newshound wrote: On 26/05/2020 13:20, George Miles wrote: Try it at 110 volts [g] On Sunday, May 24, 2020 at 12:14:03 AM UTC+1, david wrote: just bought a second hand belle 130 cement mixer. to find out it rotates so quick it is dangerous and pretty useless. if i changed the capacitor would it resolve the issue. should i change the complete motor. feel stupid and lost money .....any advise appreciated -- for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...t-1432858-.htm Don't you mean "try it at 25 Hz"? Don't think these are synchronous are they? Fairly standard AC induction motor usually - although I have not looked at that particular one. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
cement mixer rotates too fast
On 26/05/2020 13:20, George Miles wrote:
Try it at 110 volts [g] On Sunday, May 24, 2020 at 12:14:03 AM UTC+1, david wrote: just bought a second hand belle 130 cement mixer. to find out it rotates so quick it is dangerous and pretty useless. if i changed the capacitor would it resolve the issue. should i change the complete motor. feel stupid and lost money .....any advise appreciated -- for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...t-1432858-.htm Its probably a moot point anyway - the OP was on HOH - so he is unlikely to ever see or respond the the thread again! -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
cement mixer rotates too fast
On Tuesday, 26 May 2020 17:38:41 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 26/05/2020 16:38, The Natural Philosopher wrote: On 26/05/2020 15:05, newshound wrote: On 26/05/2020 13:20, George Miles wrote: Try it at 110 volts [g] On Sunday, May 24, 2020 at 12:14:03 AM UTC+1, david wrote: just bought a second hand belle 130 cement mixer. to find out it rotates so quick it is dangerous and pretty useless. if i changed the capacitor would it resolve the issue. should i change the complete motor. feel stupid and lost money .....any advise appreciated -- for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...t-1432858-.htm Don't you mean "try it at 25 Hz"? Don't think these are synchronous are they? Fairly standard AC induction motor usually - although I have not looked at that particular one. How to slow it depends on the gearing arrangement, whether pulleys (typical of old machines) or gear. Maybe show us how the motor drives the barrel on that one. If all else fails the motor could be driven at reduced v & f or pulsed if it can provide enough torque. That can be done open loop rather than the old centrifugal speed governor technique. NT |
cement mixer rotates too fast
Jimk wrote:
Wrote in message: On Monday, 25 May 2020 20:41:18 UTC+1, harry wrote: On Monday, 25 May 2020 15:41:31 UTC+1, tabby wrote: On Monday, 25 May 2020 13:15:38 UTC+1, Robin wrote: On 25/05/2020 11:27, tabbypurr wrote: On Sunday, 24 May 2020 20:20:33 UTC+1, harry wrote: On Sunday, 24 May 2020 00:14:03 UTC+1, david wrote: just bought a second hand belle 130 cement mixer. to find out it rotates so quick it is dangerous and pretty useless. if i changed the capacitor would it resolve the issue. should i change the complete motor. feel stupid and lost money .....any advise appreciated There's only one possibility. Someone has fitted the wrong motor. or the wrong pulleys. or that it's rotating at the designed speed but that's faster than the average or that it has the right motor & right pulleys but that the centrifugal speed regulator is not working. (More likely to apply to historic equipment.) NT There is no such thing on an electric cement mixer. If you can show us the speed determining mechanism on every electric cement mixer ever made I might believe you. Or you show us just one example.... Do you need an exploded parts diagram ? http://www.altrad-belle.com/?p=parts&as=240 There's no variable speed drive on the thing. I don't see a way to adjust it, via some control knob. The motor is an induction motor, with a starter capacitor strapped to the side of it (25uF for 230V model). The wiring is not suggestive of "speed options", as you get on a central heating ventilation fan (which has four taps for speed). The electric motor runs at one speed (with "slip" as a function of loading). The beauty of the Belle documentation, is figuring out what you own, and what diagram might pertain to it. There's apparently a gasoline version (after market?) of that thing too, as well as the notion of electric drive. And multiple model years, all hiding under the same SKU, making picking parts for it, a nuisance. I could also find an example of a metallic worm gear for that thing. But there's no sign of that in the diagram above. The above has two levels of gearing. Belt #46, wheel #45, cannot see pulley for other end of belt. Gear #34, ring gear 15 on drum. Because of the ratios and sizes involved in those, I don't see home-retrofitting being a viable option. You probably cannot reduce the tooth count on Gear #34 without making it non-functional. And wheel #45, it might not fit if you were to increase its diameter a large amount. It would end up too big for the housing 4. You could try looking for an induction motor with a different pole count. But I don't remember any "bargains" for motors the last time I looked. https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/s...eed-d_649.html I would try the after-sales support at the manufacturer, for advice on changing the speed (with a parts change-out). And only go to the small electric motor shop, as a last resort. The motor purchased that way, might well cost as much as the entire cement mixer (depending on how obscure it was). The pricing doesn't have to make sense. Sometimes, you can find an electric motor you want, but the shaft size is wrong, or the shaft is keyed, or the shaft is the wrong length. Some of these things can be fixed, but again, at a price. If you change the shaft speed, the forced air cooling velocity inside the housing will be reduced. For whatever that is worth. Motors come with various ventilation styles. There isn't that much room for the electric motor in this case. You couldn't play the market for an "open ended" solution, like say, a motor with twice the power, but occupying a larger volume. ******* This isn't the same model, but it shows how complicated they can make their exploded diagrams. This larger model has several powering options. The diagram, again, shows no evidence how the powering options are called out (from a model numbering perspective). https://www.magic-parts.co.uk/acatalog/maxi140.gif Paul |
cement mixer rotates too fast
Paul Wrote in message:
Jimk wrote: Wrote in message: On Monday, 25 May 2020 20:41:18 UTC+1, harry wrote: On Monday, 25 May 2020 15:41:31 UTC+1, tabby wrote: On Monday, 25 May 2020 13:15:38 UTC+1, Robin wrote: On 25/05/2020 11:27, tabbypurr wrote: On Sunday, 24 May 2020 20:20:33 UTC+1, harry wrote: On Sunday, 24 May 2020 00:14:03 UTC+1, david wrote: just bought a second hand belle 130 cement mixer. to find out it rotates so quick it is dangerous and pretty useless. if i changed the capacitor would it resolve the issue. should i change the complete motor. feel stupid and lost money .....any advise appreciated There's only one possibility. Someone has fitted the wrong motor. or the wrong pulleys. or that it's rotating at the designed speed but that's faster than the average or that it has the right motor & right pulleys but that the centrifugal speed regulator is not working. (More likely to apply to historic equipment.) NT There is no such thing on an electric cement mixer. If you can show us the speed determining mechanism on every electric cement mixer ever made I might believe you. Or you show us just one example.... Do you need an exploded parts diagram ? No. You need thread reading glasses. -- Jimk ----Android NewsGroup Reader---- http://usenet.sinaapp.com/ |
cement mixer rotates too fast
On 26/05/2020 17:39, John Rumm wrote:
On 26/05/2020 13:20, George Miles wrote: Try it at 110 volts [g] On Sunday, May 24, 2020 at 12:14:03 AM UTC+1, david wrote: just bought a second hand belle 130 cement mixer. to find out it rotates so quick it is dangerous and pretty useless. if i changed the capacitor would it resolve the issue. should i change the complete motor. feel stupid and lost money .....any advise appreciated -- for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...t-1432858-.htm Its probably a moot point anyway - the OP was on HOH - so he is unlikely to ever see or respond the the thread again! All our posts are there, including the exploded diagram that Paul posted. |
cement mixer rotates too fast
On Tuesday, 26 May 2020 18:53:00 UTC+1, Paul wrote:
Jimk wrote: tabbypurr Wrote in message: On Monday, 25 May 2020 20:41:18 UTC+1, harry wrote: On Monday, 25 May 2020 15:41:31 UTC+1, tabby wrote: On Monday, 25 May 2020 13:15:38 UTC+1, Robin wrote: On 25/05/2020 11:27, tabbypurr wrote: On Sunday, 24 May 2020 20:20:33 UTC+1, harry wrote: On Sunday, 24 May 2020 00:14:03 UTC+1, david wrote: just bought a second hand belle 130 cement mixer. to find out it rotates so quick it is dangerous and pretty useless. if i changed the capacitor would it resolve the issue. should i change the complete motor. feel stupid and lost money .....any advise appreciated There's only one possibility. Someone has fitted the wrong motor. or the wrong pulleys. or that it's rotating at the designed speed but that's faster than the average or that it has the right motor & right pulleys but that the centrifugal speed regulator is not working. (More likely to apply to historic equipment.) NT There is no such thing on an electric cement mixer. If you can show us the speed determining mechanism on every electric cement mixer ever made I might believe you. Or you show us just one example.... Do you need an exploded parts diagram ? http://www.altrad-belle.com/?p=parts&as=240 There's no variable speed drive on the thing. I don't see a way to adjust it, via some control knob. The motor is an induction motor, with a starter capacitor strapped to the side of it (25uF for 230V model). The wiring is not suggestive of "speed options", as you get on a central heating ventilation fan (which has four taps for speed). The electric motor runs at one speed (with "slip" as a function of loading). The beauty of the Belle documentation, is figuring out what you own, and what diagram might pertain to it. There's apparently a gasoline version (after market?) of that thing too, as well as the notion of electric drive. And multiple model years, all hiding under the same SKU, making picking parts for it, a nuisance. I could also find an example of a metallic worm gear for that thing. But there's no sign of that in the diagram above. The above has two levels of gearing. Belt #46, wheel #45, cannot see pulley for other end of belt. Gear #34, ring gear 15 on drum. Because of the ratios and sizes involved in those, I don't see home-retrofitting being a viable option. You probably cannot reduce the tooth count on Gear #34 without making it non-functional. And wheel #45, it might not fit if you were to increase its diameter a large amount. It would end up too big for the housing 4. You could try looking for an induction motor with a different pole count. But I don't remember any "bargains" for motors the last time I looked. https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/s...eed-d_649.html I would try the after-sales support at the manufacturer, for advice on changing the speed (with a parts change-out). And only go to the small electric motor shop, as a last resort. The motor purchased that way, might well cost as much as the entire cement mixer (depending on how obscure it was). The pricing doesn't have to make sense. Sometimes, you can find an electric motor you want, but the shaft size is wrong, or the shaft is keyed, or the shaft is the wrong length. Some of these things can be fixed, but again, at a price. If you change the shaft speed, the forced air cooling velocity inside the housing will be reduced. For whatever that is worth. Motors come with various ventilation styles. There isn't that much room for the electric motor in this case. You couldn't play the market for an "open ended" solution, like say, a motor with twice the power, but occupying a larger volume. ******* This isn't the same model, but it shows how complicated they can make their exploded diagrams. This larger model has several powering options. The diagram, again, shows no evidence how the powering options are called out (from a model numbering perspective). https://www.magic-parts.co.uk/acatalog/maxi140.gif Paul The diagram shows both pulley/belt and ring gear. The ring gear is not going to be practical to increase the ratio of. The pulley I can't see if you can get a smaller one onto the motor, if you can that would slow it some. I don't know what sort of speed reduction results from charging the thing with mix. Baby belle mixers aren't a type I'm familiar with. In the end, if it's capable of turning at all with mix in, then it can be slowed by other simple means, but I'd definitely start by a) checking speed when fully loaded b) gearing it down with a small motor pulley as far as possible. Once those are done, a pulsing driver or VFD would slow it further. But it would also reduce the motor's cooling fan speed, and that would need a workaround, ie a separate small high speed fan. A slower motor is the other option. I'm a bit more familiar with much older mixers, but not a lot. NT |
cement mixer rotates too fast
On 26/05/2020 21:00, Andrew wrote:
On 26/05/2020 17:39, John Rumm wrote: On 26/05/2020 13:20, George Miles wrote: Try it at 110 volts [g] On Sunday, May 24, 2020 at 12:14:03 AM UTC+1, david wrote: just bought a second hand belle 130 cement mixer. to find out it rotates so quick it is dangerous and pretty useless. if i changed the capacitor would it resolve the issue. should i change the complete motor. feel stupid and lost money .....any advise appreciated -- for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...t-1432858-.htm Its probably a moot point anyway - the OP was on HOH - so he is unlikely to ever see or respond the the thread again! All our posts are there, including the exploded diagram that Paul posted. Yup, but think how many times have you actually seen any kind of interaction with a HoH poster? Many because they post to very old posts that the site decides to promote by some odd algorithm, and finding them when they return to 29,000 pages ago is near on impossible, but even where they have started a new thread it seems rare to get a response. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
cement mixer rotates too fast
On 26/05/2020 18:30, wrote:
On Tuesday, 26 May 2020 17:38:41 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote: On 26/05/2020 16:38, The Natural Philosopher wrote: On 26/05/2020 15:05, newshound wrote: On 26/05/2020 13:20, George Miles wrote: Try it at 110 volts [g] On Sunday, May 24, 2020 at 12:14:03 AM UTC+1, david wrote: just bought a second hand belle 130 cement mixer. to find out it rotates so quick it is dangerous and pretty useless. if i changed the capacitor would it resolve the issue. should i change the complete motor. feel stupid and lost money .....any advise appreciated -- for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...t-1432858-.htm Don't you mean "try it at 25 Hz"? Don't think these are synchronous are they? Fairly standard AC induction motor usually - although I have not looked at that particular one. How to slow it depends on the gearing arrangement, whether pulleys (typical of old machines) or gear. Maybe show us how the motor drives the barrel on that one. There is a kind of exploded diagram in the manual I linked: http://www.free-instruction-manuals..../pa_349612.pdf If all else fails the motor could be driven at reduced v & f or pulsed if it can provide enough torque. That can be done open loop rather than the old centrifugal speed governor technique. NT -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
cement mixer rotates too fast
On Tuesday, 26 May 2020 10:49:20 UTC+1, wrote:
On Monday, 25 May 2020 20:41:18 UTC+1, harry wrote: On Monday, 25 May 2020 15:41:31 UTC+1, tabby wrote: On Monday, 25 May 2020 13:15:38 UTC+1, Robin wrote: On 25/05/2020 11:27, tabbypurr wrote: On Sunday, 24 May 2020 20:20:33 UTC+1, harry wrote: On Sunday, 24 May 2020 00:14:03 UTC+1, david wrote: just bought a second hand belle 130 cement mixer. to find out it rotates so quick it is dangerous and pretty useless. if i changed the capacitor would it resolve the issue. should i change the complete motor. feel stupid and lost money .....any advise appreciated There's only one possibility. Someone has fitted the wrong motor. or the wrong pulleys. or that it's rotating at the designed speed but that's faster than the average or that it has the right motor & right pulleys but that the centrifugal speed regulator is not working. (More likely to apply to historic equipment.) NT There is no such thing on an electric cement mixer. If you can show us the speed determining mechanism on every electric cement mixer ever made I might believe you. The speed is determined by the mains frequency and only varies slightly withe load. As it is with all induction motors. |
cement mixer rotates too fast
On 26/05/2020 16:38, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 26/05/2020 15:05, newshound wrote: On 26/05/2020 13:20, George Miles wrote: Try it at 110 volts [g] On Sunday, May 24, 2020 at 12:14:03 AM UTC+1, david wrote: just bought a second hand belle 130 cement mixer. to find out it rotates so quick it is dangerous and pretty useless. if i changed the capacitor would it resolve the issue. should i change the complete motor. feel stupid and lost money .....any advise appreciated -- for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...t-1432858-.htm Don't you mean "try it at 25 Hz"? Don't think these are synchronous are they? Well, no. But aren't they just normal AC induction motors? Typically running unloaded at ~1450 rpm for a 4 pole version, only slightly slower when loaded. |
cement mixer rotates too fast
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 26/05/2020 15:05, newshound wrote: On 26/05/2020 13:20, George Miles wrote: Try it at 110 volts [g] On Sunday, May 24, 2020 at 12:14:03 AM UTC+1, david wrote: just bought a second hand belle 130 cement mixer. to find out it rotates so quick it is dangerous and pretty useless. if i changed the capacitor would it resolve the issue. should i change the complete motor. feel stupid and lost money .....any advise appreciated -- for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...t-1432858-.htm Don't you mean "try it at 25 Hz"? Don't think these are synchronous are they? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induction_motor "For rotor currents to be induced, the speed of the physical rotor must be lower than that of the stator's rotating magnetic field N0; otherwise the magnetic field would not be moving relative to the rotor conductors and no currents would be induced. As the speed of the rotor drops below synchronous speed, the rotation rate of the magnetic field in the rotor increases, inducing more current in the windings and creating more torque. The ratio between the rotation rate of the magnetic field induced in the rotor and the rotation rate of the stator's rotating field is called "slip". " And the label on the diagram to the right of it is labeled "inherent slip", meaning it's a principle of operation and not just an arbitrary measure of "mechanical load". Paul |
cement mixer rotates too fast
On Wednesday, 27 May 2020 13:48:03 UTC+1, harry wrote:
On Tuesday, 26 May 2020 10:49:20 UTC+1, tabby wrote: On Monday, 25 May 2020 20:41:18 UTC+1, harry wrote: On Monday, 25 May 2020 15:41:31 UTC+1, tabby wrote: On Monday, 25 May 2020 13:15:38 UTC+1, Robin wrote: On 25/05/2020 11:27, tabbypurr wrote: On Sunday, 24 May 2020 20:20:33 UTC+1, harry wrote: On Sunday, 24 May 2020 00:14:03 UTC+1, david wrote: just bought a second hand belle 130 cement mixer. to find out it rotates so quick it is dangerous and pretty useless. if i changed the capacitor would it resolve the issue. should i change the complete motor. feel stupid and lost money .....any advise appreciated There's only one possibility. Someone has fitted the wrong motor. or the wrong pulleys. or that it's rotating at the designed speed but that's faster than the average or that it has the right motor & right pulleys but that the centrifugal speed regulator is not working. (More likely to apply to historic equipment.) NT There is no such thing on an electric cement mixer. If you can show us the speed determining mechanism on every electric cement mixer ever made I might believe you. The speed is determined by the mains frequency and only varies slightly withe load. As it is with all induction motors. Of course there have been various other ways to drive them over the century plus they've been around. |
cement mixer rotates too fast
On Thursday, 28 May 2020 23:30:42 UTC+1, wrote:
On Wednesday, 27 May 2020 13:48:03 UTC+1, harry wrote: On Tuesday, 26 May 2020 10:49:20 UTC+1, tabby wrote: On Monday, 25 May 2020 20:41:18 UTC+1, harry wrote: On Monday, 25 May 2020 15:41:31 UTC+1, tabby wrote: On Monday, 25 May 2020 13:15:38 UTC+1, Robin wrote: On 25/05/2020 11:27, tabbypurr wrote: On Sunday, 24 May 2020 20:20:33 UTC+1, harry wrote: On Sunday, 24 May 2020 00:14:03 UTC+1, david wrote: just bought a second hand belle 130 cement mixer. to find out it rotates so quick it is dangerous and pretty useless. if i changed the capacitor would it resolve the issue. should i change the complete motor. feel stupid and lost money .....any advise appreciated There's only one possibility. Someone has fitted the wrong motor. or the wrong pulleys. or that it's rotating at the designed speed but that's faster than the average or that it has the right motor & right pulleys but that the centrifugal speed regulator is not working. (More likely to apply to historic equipment.) NT There is no such thing on an electric cement mixer. If you can show us the speed determining mechanism on every electric cement mixer ever made I might believe you. The speed is determined by the mains frequency and only varies slightly withe load. As it is with all induction motors. Of course there have been various other ways to drive them over the century plus they've been around. By hand. Plus with a diesel engine. Forty years ago, electric mixers were unknown. |
cement mixer rotates too fast
"harry" wrote in message ... On Thursday, 28 May 2020 23:30:42 UTC+1, wrote: On Wednesday, 27 May 2020 13:48:03 UTC+1, harry wrote: On Tuesday, 26 May 2020 10:49:20 UTC+1, tabby wrote: On Monday, 25 May 2020 20:41:18 UTC+1, harry wrote: On Monday, 25 May 2020 15:41:31 UTC+1, tabby wrote: On Monday, 25 May 2020 13:15:38 UTC+1, Robin wrote: On 25/05/2020 11:27, tabbypurr wrote: On Sunday, 24 May 2020 20:20:33 UTC+1, harry wrote: On Sunday, 24 May 2020 00:14:03 UTC+1, david wrote: just bought a second hand belle 130 cement mixer. to find out it rotates so quick it is dangerous and pretty useless. if i changed the capacitor would it resolve the issue. should i change the complete motor. feel stupid and lost money .....any advise appreciated There's only one possibility. Someone has fitted the wrong motor. or the wrong pulleys. or that it's rotating at the designed speed but that's faster than the average or that it has the right motor & right pulleys but that the centrifugal speed regulator is not working. (More likely to apply to historic equipment.) NT There is no such thing on an electric cement mixer. If you can show us the speed determining mechanism on every electric cement mixer ever made I might believe you. The speed is determined by the mains frequency and only varies slightly withe load. As it is with all induction motors. Of course there have been various other ways to drive them over the century plus they've been around. By hand. Plus with a diesel engine. Forty years ago, electric mixers were unknown. BULL****, I used one 45 years ago and it wasnt anything like new then. |
UNBELIEVABLE: It's 19:02 am in Australia and the Senile Ozzietard has been out of Bed and TROLLING for almost FIFTEEN HOURS already!!!! LOL
On Fri, 29 May 2020 19:02:41 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again: FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread 19:02??? And you've been up and trolling since 04:33 again! Just HOW sick are you, you senile mental case? -- Marland answering senile Rodent's statement, "I don't leak": "That¢s because so much **** and ****e emanates from your gob that there is nothing left to exit normally, your arsehole has clammed shut through disuse and the end of prick is only clear because you are such a ******." Message-ID: |
cement mixer rotates too fast
On Friday, 29 May 2020 08:21:46 UTC+1, harry wrote:
On Thursday, 28 May 2020 23:30:42 UTC+1, tabby wrote: On Wednesday, 27 May 2020 13:48:03 UTC+1, harry wrote: On Tuesday, 26 May 2020 10:49:20 UTC+1, tabby wrote: On Monday, 25 May 2020 20:41:18 UTC+1, harry wrote: On Monday, 25 May 2020 15:41:31 UTC+1, tabby wrote: On Monday, 25 May 2020 13:15:38 UTC+1, Robin wrote: On 25/05/2020 11:27, tabbypurr wrote: On Sunday, 24 May 2020 20:20:33 UTC+1, harry wrote: On Sunday, 24 May 2020 00:14:03 UTC+1, david wrote: just bought a second hand belle 130 cement mixer. to find out it rotates so quick it is dangerous and pretty useless. if i changed the capacitor would it resolve the issue. should i change the complete motor. feel stupid and lost money .....any advise appreciated There's only one possibility. Someone has fitted the wrong motor. or the wrong pulleys. or that it's rotating at the designed speed but that's faster than the average or that it has the right motor & right pulleys but that the centrifugal speed regulator is not working. (More likely to apply to historic equipment.) NT There is no such thing on an electric cement mixer. If you can show us the speed determining mechanism on every electric cement mixer ever made I might believe you. The speed is determined by the mains frequency and only varies slightly withe load. As it is with all induction motors. Of course there have been various other ways to drive them over the century plus they've been around. By hand. Plus with a diesel engine. Forty years ago, electric mixers were unknown. so you know little of cement mixer history. What's new. |
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