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Default CCTV advice please.

Following some escalation in attempted or successful break-ins in our
village, we wish to install some cctv.

To begin with I think that 2 wireless cameras with the facility to
record to a router usb disc or a pc HDD. It will not be possible to run
a network cable anywhere.

Any suggestions for a mid-priced secure setup?

Regards
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Newman wrote:

It will not be possible to run
a network cable anywhere.


what about power?

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On Mon, 9 Mar 2020 10:19:59 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:

It will not be possible to run a network cable anywhere.


what about power?


OP is planning to use "wireless" cameras. Unfortunatley the
misleading marketing has led him to think "wireless" means "no
wires".

I'd look at what packged systems are available, preferably using PoE
IP based cameras with, at the absolute minimum, Full HD resolution.

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Dave.



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On 09/03/2020 11:33, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Mon, 9 Mar 2020 10:19:59 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:

It will not be possible to run a network cable anywhere.


what about power?


OP is planning to use "wireless" cameras. Unfortunatley the
misleading marketing has led him to think "wireless" means "no
wires".


FWIW, these are battery.

http://www.techmoan.com/blog/2016/8/...ra-system.html


I'd look at what packged systems are available, preferably using PoE
IP based cameras with, at the absolute minimum, Full HD resolution.


TVI is also an option for HD over coaxial. Still need power though.

--
Adrian C
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On 09/03/2020 11:46, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
On 09/03/2020 11:33, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Mon, 9 Mar 2020 10:19:59 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:

It will not be possible to run a network cable anywhere.

what about power?


OP is planning to use "wireless" cameras. Unfortunatley the
misleading marketing has led him to think "wireless" means "no
wires".


FWIW, these are battery.

http://www.techmoan.com/blog/2016/8/...ra-system.html



Another option might be the Blink XT2. One nice thing about the netgear
is that (I guess) the USB ports on the base station let you save to a
memory stick or USB hard drive. Saves faffing about with a cloud
subscription or downloading from the "free" 7 day cloud.


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On 09/03/2020 12:01, newshound wrote:
Blink XT2



Sorry, I did not make myself clear. Yes I will be able to get power to
the cameras.

Regards

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On Mon, 9 Mar 2020 12:10:12 +0000, Newman wrote:

On 09/03/2020 12:01, newshound wrote:
Blink XT2



Sorry, I did not make myself clear.


You did, you stated "It will not be possible to run
a network cable anywhere." ;-)

The only way that would be related to powering the cameras is if you
were going to power them over the network cables (and you obviously
weren't).

Yes I will be able to get power to
the cameras.


;-)

Cheers, T i m

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On 09/03/2020 10:17, Newman wrote:
Following some escalation in attempted or successful break-ins in our
village, we wish to install some cctv.

To begin with I think that 2 wireless cameras with the facility to
record to a router usb disc or a pc HDD. It will not be possible to run
a network cable anywhere.

Any suggestions for a mid-priced secure setup?


You can buy ethernet cable suitable for installing outside, if that
helps. The cable could also supply power to the camera using PoE

--
Michael Chare
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On 09/03/2020 12:10, Newman wrote:
On 09/03/2020 12:01, newshound wrote:
Blink XT2



Sorry, I did not make myself clear. Yes I will be able to get power to
the cameras.

Regards

If you can get power to them you should obviously not use wireless ones.
It's no more trouble to run RG59+2 than it is to run a power-only cable.

And why not get a proper dedicated recorder? They're cheap as chips and
interface nicely with the internet.

Bill
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On Mon, 9 Mar 2020 14:23:38 +0000, williamwright
wrote:

On 09/03/2020 12:10, Newman wrote:
On 09/03/2020 12:01, newshound wrote:
Blink XT2



Sorry, I did not make myself clear. Yes I will be able to get power to
the cameras.

Regards

If you can get power to them you should obviously not use wireless ones.


Obviously? How does the difficulty of running cables compare with the
potential ease of finding power local to the cameras?

It's no more trouble to run RG59+2 than it is to run a power-only cable.


Except he's expressly stated he won't be running any 'data'/ signal'
cable and so it won't be 'no more trouble' to run a power cable along
with it as he won't be doing that in the first place?

What if say it's a listed building, or he doesn't have access to the
area between where the cameras will be located (and where the power is
available)?

And why not get a proper dedicated recorder?


Why not indeed. You could have asked "Have you considered a dedicated
recorder (that will allow easy configuration of Wireless IP cameras)"

They're cheap as chips and
interface nicely with the internet.


Is an IP recorder that will support a WiFi cam sill going to be 'as
cheap as chips' and easy to connect with WiFi IP cameras?

Cheers, T i m


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On Mon, 9 Mar 2020 10:17:00 +0000, Newman wrote:

Following some escalation in attempted or successful break-ins in our
village, we wish to install some cctv.

To begin with I think that 2 wireless cameras with the facility to
record to a router usb disc or a pc HDD. It will not be possible to run
a network cable anywhere.

Any suggestions for a mid-priced secure setup?

Look for cameras with 30m night vision range.
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On Mon, 9 Mar 2020 13:59:32 +0000, Michael Chare
wrote:

On 09/03/2020 10:17, Newman wrote:
Following some escalation in attempted or successful break-ins in our
village, we wish to install some cctv.

To begin with I think that 2 wireless cameras with the facility to
record to a router usb disc or a pc HDD. It will not be possible to run
a network cable anywhere.

Any suggestions for a mid-priced secure setup?


You can buy ethernet cable suitable for installing outside, if that
helps.


Many people don't have the time, interest or option to 'run cables' to
things these days and hence why they go for the WiFi options. This is
pretty clear from the number of Wireless alarm systems in use today
and where people can't even be bothered to put an ignition key in
their car. ;-)

The cable could also supply power to the camera using PoE


It could, if there was a cable, but we were told that 'won't be
possible'. ;-(

Cheers, T i m



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On 09/03/2020 15:35, T i m wrote:

If you can get power to them you should obviously not use wireless ones.


Obviously? How does the difficulty of running cables compare with the
potential ease of finding power local to the cameras?


Where does he say he can find local power?

It's no more trouble to run RG59+2 than it is to run a power-only cable.


Except he's expressly stated he won't be running any 'data'/ signal'
cable


For no good reason. That's my point. He has a misapprehension that I
have corrected.


What if say it's a listed building,


What if it's a little house in the forest made of chocolate? What if
it's an ice hotel and will melt when Spring comes? What if he lives in a
****ing cardboard box?


And why not get a proper dedicated recorder?


Why not indeed. You could have asked "Have you considered a dedicated
recorder (that will allow easy configuration of Wireless IP cameras)"


So you are correcting my phraseology now are you?

Is an IP recorder that will support a WiFi cam sill going to be 'as
cheap as chips' and easy to connect with WiFi IP cameras?


Absolutely. Yes.

Bill

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On 09/03/2020 15:40, Peter Johnson wrote:
On Mon, 9 Mar 2020 10:17:00 +0000, Newman wrote:

Following some escalation in attempted or successful break-ins in our
village, we wish to install some cctv.

To begin with I think that 2 wireless cameras with the facility to
record to a router usb disc or a pc HDD. It will not be possible to run
a network cable anywhere.

Any suggestions for a mid-priced secure setup?

Look for cameras with 30m night vision range.

That refers to the power of the IR. Since IR is not as good as available
light for IDs etc think also about the genuine available light low light
level performance. Don't use a cheap camera that relies entirely on IR
for night vision.

Bill
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In article ,
T i m wrote:
On Mon, 9 Mar 2020 13:59:32 +0000, Michael Chare
wrote:


On 09/03/2020 10:17, Newman wrote:
Following some escalation in attempted or successful break-ins in our
village, we wish to install some cctv.

To begin with I think that 2 wireless cameras with the facility to
record to a router usb disc or a pc HDD. It will not be possible to run
a network cable anywhere.

Any suggestions for a mid-priced secure setup?


You can buy ethernet cable suitable for installing outside, if that
helps.


Many people don't have the time, interest or option to 'run cables' to
things these days and hence why they go for the WiFi options. This is
pretty clear from the number of Wireless alarm systems in use today
and where people can't even be bothered to put an ignition key in
their car. ;-)


don't think I'd want to run a cable to my car. People might trip over it.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle


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In article ,
williamwright wrote:
On 09/03/2020 15:35, T i m wrote:


If you can get power to them you should obviously not use wireless ones.


Obviously? How does the difficulty of running cables compare with the
potential ease of finding power local to the cameras?


Where does he say he can find local power?


It's no more trouble to run RG59+2 than it is to run a power-only cable.


Except he's expressly stated he won't be running any 'data'/ signal'
cable


For no good reason. That's my point. He has a misapprehension that I
have corrected.



What if say it's a listed building,


What if it's a little house in the forest made of chocolate? What if
it's an ice hotel and will melt when Spring comes? What if he lives in a
****ing cardboard box?


what if it's like my garden shed. It's fed with 200ft of underground mains
cable. No duct,.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
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On 09/03/2020 11:33, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Mon, 9 Mar 2020 10:19:59 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:

It will not be possible to run a network cable anywhere.


what about power?


OP is planning to use "wireless" cameras. Unfortunatley the
misleading marketing has led him to think "wireless" means "no
wires".


To be fair, it's relatively easier to conceive a plan to get power to
each individual camera than to connect all of them to some sort of
recording source.
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"Adrian Caspersz" wrote in message
...
On 09/03/2020 11:33, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Mon, 9 Mar 2020 10:19:59 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:

It will not be possible to run a network cable anywhere.

what about power?


OP is planning to use "wireless" cameras. Unfortunatley the
misleading marketing has led him to think "wireless" means "no
wires".


FWIW, these are battery.

http://www.techmoan.com/blog/2016/8/...ra-system.html


But won't record 24/7 to a hard drive on your router.

They will record 24/7 to arlo's drives in the USA or
wherever they are, at a hell of a price per month.

And the battery won't last that long if you run them like that.

You can add a solar charger to each camera, but how well
that works in the UK in winter isn't likely to be viable.

I'd look at what packged systems are available, preferably using PoE
IP based cameras with, at the absolute minimum, Full HD resolution.


TVI is also an option for HD over coaxial. Still need power though.



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"newshound" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 09/03/2020 11:46, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
On 09/03/2020 11:33, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Mon, 9 Mar 2020 10:19:59 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:

It will not be possible to run a network cable anywhere.

what about power?

OP is planning to use "wireless" cameras. Unfortunatley the
misleading marketing has led him to think "wireless" means "no
wires".


FWIW, these are battery.

http://www.techmoan.com/blog/2016/8/...ra-system.html


Another option might be the Blink XT2. One nice thing about the netgear is
that (I guess) the USB ports on the base station let you save to a memory
stick or USB hard drive.


No the arlos dont with the 24/7 recording, that has to go
to their cloud at a stupid price per month for each camera.

Saves faffing about with a cloud subscription or downloading from the
"free" 7 day cloud.


Fraid not. I did plan to use mine like that but
they wont do it and I only discovered that
when reading the manual. Should have done
that before buying them and returned them
when I discovered that stupidity.

They arent cheap either.

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03:53??? LOL So for HOW long have you been up and trolling this night
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"williamwright" wrote in message
...
On 09/03/2020 12:10, Newman wrote:
On 09/03/2020 12:01, newshound wrote:
Blink XT2



Sorry, I did not make myself clear. Yes I will be able to get power to
the cameras.

Regards

If you can get power to them you should obviously not use wireless ones.
It's no more trouble to run RG59+2 than it is to run a power-only cable.


That utterly mangles the real story. Its trivial to
supply power to any camera in my house because
there will always be a power point quite close.

Its a lot harder to run a cable from
the camera right back to the router.

And why not get a proper dedicated recorder? They're cheap as chips and
interface nicely with the internet.


Some of them like the Swanns are so badly
designed that you can't keep the 24/7 recording
for very long with the higher resolution cameras.

Fat lot of good that is if the looting happens while
you are away and you only discover it on your return
and need to check the recordings to identify the perps.

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FLUSH senile troll****

03:48??? Is your senility not letting you sleep in again, senile cretin? Or
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FLUSH senile asshole's troll****

05:08??? So WHY do you know NO shame AT ALL, senile Rodent? Because you are
so miserable that you can't AFFORD to know any shame, you disgusting senile
cretin? BG

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williamwright wrote
T i m wrote


If you can get power to them you should obviously not use wireless ones.


Obviously? How does the difficulty of running cables compare with the
potential ease of finding power local to the cameras?


Where does he say he can find local power?


Doesnt need to given that almost everyone can much
more easily than running a cable back to the router.

It's no more trouble to run RG59+2 than it is to run a power-only cable.


Except he's expressly stated he won't be running any 'data'/ signal'
cable


For no good reason.


There can be in plenty of situations.

That's my point.


You never had one.

He has a misapprehension that I have corrected.


You have done nothing of the sort;

What if say it's a listed building,


What if it's a little house in the forest made of chocolate? What if it's
an ice hotel and will melt when Spring comes? What if he lives in a
****ing cardboard box?


You never could bull**** your way out of a wet paper bag.

And why not get a proper dedicated recorder?


Why not indeed. You could have asked "Have you considered a dedicated
recorder (that will allow easy configuration of Wireless IP cameras)"


So you are correcting my phraseology now are you?


Nope.

Is an IP recorder that will support a WiFi cam sill going to be 'as cheap
as chips' and easy to connect with WiFi IP cameras?


Absolutely. Yes.



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"charles" wrote in message
...
In article ,
williamwright wrote:
On 09/03/2020 15:35, T i m wrote:


If you can get power to them you should obviously not use wireless
ones.

Obviously? How does the difficulty of running cables compare with the
potential ease of finding power local to the cameras?


Where does he say he can find local power?


It's no more trouble to run RG59+2 than it is to run a power-only
cable.

Except he's expressly stated he won't be running any 'data'/ signal'
cable


For no good reason. That's my point. He has a misapprehension that I
have corrected.



What if say it's a listed building,


What if it's a little house in the forest made of chocolate? What if
it's an ice hotel and will melt when Spring comes? What if he lives in a
****ing cardboard box?


what if it's like my garden shed. It's fed with 200ft of underground mains
cable. No duct,.


Or my house where its trivial to get power from
close to the camera but a real bugger to run a
network cable from the camera to the router.

Tho I spose with only 2 cameras and dedicated
recorders so cheap, you can make a case for
having one per camera except for the hassle
of having to look for evidence of the perp on
two different recorders instead of just the one.



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On Tue, 10 Mar 2020 05:53:12 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
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FLUSH senile asshole's troll****

05:53!!! Dumb piece of senile ****! LOL

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On Tue, 10 Mar 2020 05:35:52 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH senile asshole's latest troll****

05:35! LOL So, WHY do you have NO ONE in RL to talk to, senile Rodent? You
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On 09/03/2020 16:46, charles wrote:

what if it's like my garden shed. It's fed with 200ft of underground mains
cable. No duct,.


Total lack of foresight there Charles....

Bill
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On 09/03/2020 18:08, Rod Speed wrote:

That utterly mangles the real story. Its trivial to
supply power to any camera in my house


It's not your house though is it?


And why not get a proper dedicated recorder? They're cheap as chips
and interface nicely with the internet.


Some of them like the Swanns are so badly
designed that you can't keep the 24/7 recording
for very long with the higher resolution cameras.


That's caused by inadequate storage.

Bill
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On Mon, 9 Mar 2020 16:07:02 +0000, williamwright
wrote:

On 09/03/2020 15:35, T i m wrote:

If you can get power to them you should obviously not use wireless ones.


Obviously? How does the difficulty of running cables compare with the
potential ease of finding power local to the cameras?


Where does he say he can find local power?


Where does he say he can't? What he does state however is that "It
will not be possible to run a network cable anywhere" and logic
dictates, if he can't do that he won't be *running* power cables (any
distance) either but picking the power up locally. That could even be
batteries and solar for all we know.

It's no more trouble to run RG59+2 than it is to run a power-only cable.


Except he's expressly stated he won't be running any 'data'/ signal'
cable


For no good reason.


For 'no good reason' that you are aware of. However, he did actually
state "It will not be possible to run a network cable anywhere and so
by any form of logical reasoning, he wouldn't be able to run power
(any distance) either.

That's my point.


That's your opinion but completely ignoring the information presented.

He has a misapprehension that I
have corrected.


You have made an assumption based on illogic.


What if say it's a listed building,


What if it's a little house in the forest made of chocolate? What if
it's an ice hotel and will melt when Spring comes? What if he lives in a
****ing cardboard box?


Grow up.


And why not get a proper dedicated recorder?


Why not indeed. You could have asked "Have you considered a dedicated
recorder (that will allow easy configuration of Wireless IP cameras)"


So you are correcting my phraseology now are you?


Yes, but I'm guessing you just had another bad day. The phraseology of
that particular sentence reflected your bullish attitude of all the
other points.

Is an IP recorder that will support a WiFi cam sill going to be 'as
cheap as chips' and easy to connect with WiFi IP cameras?


Absolutely. Yes.


Then that's fine as that will do what he wants, assuming he actually
wants a dedicated recorder. What he actually asked for was: "facility
to record to a router usb disc or a pc HDD" and he may well have
requested that for very good reason.

OOI, if he asks such a question using those constraints, do you think
he's completely tech illiterate (and think WiFi cams are powered by
pixies) where your initial replies would be any answer to his
questions?

Your reply was like one of the 'Use Linux' ones to a Windows question.

Whilst it can have merits in some cases, in this case the OP stated
specifically he didn't want Linux.

Don't get me wrong here, I agree that a cabled system with a dedicated
box would be the best solution, but it doesn't seem to be even a
possible solution in this case.

Cheers, T i m


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On Mon, 9 Mar 2020 20:40:56 +0000, williamwright
wrote:

On 09/03/2020 18:08, Rod Speed wrote:

That utterly mangles the real story. Its trivial to
supply power to any camera in my house


It's not your house though is it?

snip

Strange how you get my point there but didn't in your reply to me?

The OP asked for advice stating some fairly specific constraints and
you basically ignored all of them, recommending a completely different
solution.

Whist I'm not contesting that solution wouldn't be 'better' for 'most
people' under typical circumstances, the chances are (because of the
restrictions stated at the outset) that wouldn't even be a starter for
the OP.

So, can you actually recommend any kit that might answer the OP's
questions (I can't because I'm not a 'CCTV Expert'). ;-)

Cheers, T i m

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Default CCTV advice please.

I mean cameras out of tamper way running on batteries with no way to charge
them is a job for life for a man with a ladder.
Brian

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On 09/03/2020 11:33, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Mon, 9 Mar 2020 10:19:59 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:

It will not be possible to run a network cable anywhere.

what about power?


OP is planning to use "wireless" cameras. Unfortunatley the
misleading marketing has led him to think "wireless" means "no
wires".


FWIW, these are battery.

http://www.techmoan.com/blog/2016/8/...ra-system.html


I'd look at what packged systems are available, preferably using PoE
IP based cameras with, at the absolute minimum, Full HD resolution.


TVI is also an option for HD over coaxial. Still need power though.

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williamwright wrote
Rod Speed wrote


That utterly mangles the real story. Its trivial to
supply power to any camera in my house


It's not your house though is it?


But its true of his too.

And why not get a proper dedicated recorder? They're cheap as chips and
interface nicely with the internet.


Some of them like the Swanns are so badly
designed that you can't keep the 24/7 recording
for very long with the higher resolution cameras.


That's caused by inadequate storage.


Nope, even with a bigger drive it still won't, due to stupid design.

The one a mate of mine has still won't keep the recording for
long enough even when only two cameras are installed with a
16 camera config. Stupid design. And they arent cheap either.

The support fools dont even see that its a problem.



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Default UNBELIEVABLE: It's 08:54 am in Australia and the Senile Ozzietard has been out of Bed and TROLLING for OVER FIVE HOURS already!!!! LOL

On Tue, 10 Mar 2020 08:54:18 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH senile troll****

08:54??? You ARE clinically insane, senile pest!

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MID:
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In article , williamwright
wrote:
On 09/03/2020 16:46, charles wrote:


what if it's like my garden shed. It's fed with 200ft of underground
mains cable. No duct,.


Total lack of foresight there Charles....


Bill


foresight would have been needed, I installed the cable 40 years ago!

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On 09/03/2020 22:50, charles wrote:
In article , williamwright
wrote:
On 09/03/2020 16:46, charles wrote:


what if it's like my garden shed. It's fed with 200ft of underground
mains cable. No duct,.


Total lack of foresight there Charles....


Bill


foresight would have been needed, I installed the cable 40 years ago!

It's dreadful isn't it, Charles? I spent twenty years vaguely wondering
how the outdoor floodlamp that I fitted ten years before operated,
because it never came on. The other day whilst searching for something
else in the loft I found a scribbled circuit diagram. It turned out that
I'd wired the lamp to a switch that I'd forgotten existed because it had
been behind a shelf unit for the twenty years. I must have intened to
move the switch but never did.

Also, my oldest CCTV camera failed last year. It had worked 24/7 since
approx 1980. Unlike all the other cameras it was mains powered and I had
to physically follow the cable to find out where to disconnect it.

Bill
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On 09/03/2020 10:17, Newman wrote:
Following some escalation in attempted or successful break-ins in our
village, we wish to install some cctv.

To begin with I think that 2 wireless cameras with the facility to
record to a router usb disc or a pc HDD. It will not be possible to run
a network cable anywhere.

Any suggestions for a mid-priced secure setup?

Regards



What's the purpose of the camera?

To deter thieves in which case it may need to be very obvious that its
there but maybe not obvious which way the lens is pointing - perhaps a
dome type camera enclosure.

If it's to also identify people after the event you need a camera with
enough resolution for identification coupled with a suitable lens with a
sensible field of view.

Don't forget that many public CCTV systems claim to have a man in the
loop viewing the pictures to identify crime/problems - although recent
revelations suggest that even on smart motorways no-one is viewing the
output to shut down lanes when someone breaks down and blocks them.

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On 09/03/2020 21:42, Brian Gaff (Sofa 2) wrote:
How will the cameras be powered?
Brian

I will be able to get power from the loft to the cameras mounted on the
eaves but will not be able to run cable to either the router or the pc.

Regards
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