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  #51   Report Post  
Old February 16th 20, 03:20 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default Earthing through plastic pipe

In article ,
Tufnell Park wrote:
But if you contact your electricity supplier and tell them the problem I'm
sure they'll point you in the right direction.

I very much doubt that your electricity supplier would guide you on a
technical matter such as 'earthing'.


Try it and see.

--
*America is so advanced that even the chairs are electric.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

  #52   Report Post  
Old February 16th 20, 03:37 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default Earthing through plastic pipe

On 16/02/2020 15:20, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Tufnell Park wrote:
But if you contact your electricity supplier and tell them the problem I'm
sure they'll point you in the right direction.

I very much doubt that your electricity supplier would guide you on a
technical matter such as 'earthing'.


Try it and see.

It's not worth the bother, provision of PME is the responsibility of the
DNO (distribution network operator).

Your electricity supplier merely supplies you with electricty, for
technical matters they may refer you to the DNO, but you will have made
2 calls where one would have done.
  #53   Report Post  
Old February 16th 20, 03:44 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 23,510
Default Earthing through plastic pipe

On 15/02/2020 17:54, wrote:
On Saturday, 15 February 2020 09:59:41 UTC, Robin wrote:
On 15/02/2020 08:35, tabbypurr wrote:
On Friday, 14 February 2020 11:08:57 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
TimW wrote:
There was an ancient (1950s) steel pipe bringing mains water into my
house under the front room and then up in the cup'd under the stairs.
There there was a stop cock and it went into copper pipe and onto the
copper a large sleeved earth wire was connected with a tag on saying "Do
Not Remove".

The steel pipe was leaking so I have taken it all out and replaced with
blue plastic pipe. Was looking at the earth arrangement and wondering if
I need to earth the wiring in another way, into the ground or something,
or are we still earthed through the water in the plastic pipe out to the
outside world?

It was common many many years ago to provide the earth via the water pipe.
Not so today. Get your leccy board in to sort it out.

It's nothing to do with the leccy board.



Meanwhile what might help Tim is to know that the relevant function of
"Electricity Boards" was transferred as part of the privatisation of the
industry to distribution network operators (DNOs). As John has already
pointed out they can and do deal with earthing - although they may
charge (and will require main bonding to be up to current requirements
before they supply PME).

https://www.ukpowernetworks.co.uk/electricity/earthing

The job required is on the OP's installation, not a job for the DNO on their equipment.

Well its both... You could wire up your installation as if it were
TN-C-S, but that would not be a sensible thing to do if the DNO had not
constructed or upgraded the local distribution network to support it.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/
  #54   Report Post  
Old February 16th 20, 04:55 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 1,072
Default Earthing through plastic pipe

On 16/02/2020 15:37, Tufnell Park wrote:
On 16/02/2020 15:20, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Â*Â*Â* Tufnell Park wrote:
But if you contact your electricity supplier and tell them the
problem I'm
sure they'll point you in the right direction.

I very much doubt that your electricity supplier would guide you on a
technical matter such as 'earthing'.


Try it and see.

It's not worth the bother, provision of PME is the responsibility of the
DNO (distribution network operator).

Your electricity supplier merely supplies you with electricty, for
technical matters they may refer you to the DNO, but you will have made
2 calls where one would have done.


+1

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid
  #55   Report Post  
Old February 16th 20, 05:01 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,072
Default Earthing through plastic pipe

On 15/02/2020 17:54, wrote:
On Saturday, 15 February 2020 09:59:41 UTC, Robin wrote:
On 15/02/2020 08:35, tabbypurr wrote:
On Friday, 14 February 2020 11:08:57 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
TimW wrote:
There was an ancient (1950s) steel pipe bringing mains water into my
house under the front room and then up in the cup'd under the stairs.
There there was a stop cock and it went into copper pipe and onto the
copper a large sleeved earth wire was connected with a tag on saying "Do
Not Remove".

The steel pipe was leaking so I have taken it all out and replaced with
blue plastic pipe. Was looking at the earth arrangement and wondering if
I need to earth the wiring in another way, into the ground or something,
or are we still earthed through the water in the plastic pipe out to the
outside world?

It was common many many years ago to provide the earth via the water pipe.
Not so today. Get your leccy board in to sort it out.

It's nothing to do with the leccy board.



Meanwhile what might help Tim is to know that the relevant function of
"Electricity Boards" was transferred as part of the privatisation of the
industry to distribution network operators (DNOs). As John has already
pointed out they can and do deal with earthing - although they may
charge (and will require main bonding to be up to current requirements
before they supply PME).

https://www.ukpowernetworks.co.uk/electricity/earthing

The job required is on the OP's installation, not a job for the DNO on their equipment.


Depends what "the job" is. Getting PME (if it isn't there already) is a
job for the DNO on their equipment, and some at least will check it for
free. (IMLE they don't always have records, or trust what they do have.)

There may be other jobs on the installation - eg bonding, earth rod -
but that doesn't militate against using the DNO.



--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid


  #56   Report Post  
Old February 16th 20, 06:46 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default Earthing through plastic pipe

On Sunday, 16 February 2020 13:41:36 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:
On Saturday, 15 February 2020 11:32:02 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:


It was common many many years ago to provide the earth via the
water pipe. Not so today. Get your leccy board in to sort it out.

It's nothing to do with the leccy board.

How would you define leccy board? The same as your electricity
supplier?

If I meant that I'd have said so. ;-)


What's happened to you lately?


I could ask the same of you. ;-)


You could, but I'm not the one displaying warning signs of dementia

But if you contact your electricity supplier and tell them the problem I'm
sure they'll point you in the right direction.

  #57   Report Post  
Old February 16th 20, 06:49 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 11,619
Default Earthing through plastic pipe

On Sunday, 16 February 2020 15:44:19 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 15/02/2020 17:54, tabbypurr wrote:
On Saturday, 15 February 2020 09:59:41 UTC, Robin wrote:
On 15/02/2020 08:35, tabbypurr wrote:
On Friday, 14 February 2020 11:08:57 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
TimW wrote:
There was an ancient (1950s) steel pipe bringing mains water into my
house under the front room and then up in the cup'd under the stairs.
There there was a stop cock and it went into copper pipe and onto the
copper a large sleeved earth wire was connected with a tag on saying "Do
Not Remove".

The steel pipe was leaking so I have taken it all out and replaced with
blue plastic pipe. Was looking at the earth arrangement and wondering if
I need to earth the wiring in another way, into the ground or something,
or are we still earthed through the water in the plastic pipe out to the
outside world?

It was common many many years ago to provide the earth via the water pipe.
Not so today. Get your leccy board in to sort it out.

It's nothing to do with the leccy board.



Meanwhile what might help Tim is to know that the relevant function of
"Electricity Boards" was transferred as part of the privatisation of the
industry to distribution network operators (DNOs). As John has already
pointed out they can and do deal with earthing - although they may
charge (and will require main bonding to be up to current requirements
before they supply PME).

https://www.ukpowernetworks.co.uk/electricity/earthing


The job required is on the OP's installation, not a job for the DNO on their equipment.

Well its both... You could wire up your installation as if it were
TN-C-S, but that would not be a sensible thing to do if the DNO had not
constructed or upgraded the local distribution network to support it.


all that's required is to equi bond the water pipe. AFAIK suppliers don't provide neutral earth terminals on non-PME supplies.


NT
  #58   Report Post  
Old February 16th 20, 07:00 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 6,792
Default Earthing through plastic pipe

On 14/02/2020 16:09, John Rumm wrote:
On 14/02/2020 15:44, newshound wrote:
On 14/02/2020 11:10, Tim Watts wrote:
On 14/02/2020 11:06, Tim Watts wrote:
On 13/02/2020 22:35, TimW wrote:

Earth rod and required RCD measures if you are a TT installation.


But are you maybe a TN-C-S or TN-S (supplier provided earth) and
this clamp was merely equipotential bonding?


Going to add - if you can't work it out, best call a local sparky
around asap to check it out. The worst case scenario as others have
mentioned is a very dangerous installation.


Although *if* it is a reasonably recent installation, the supplier's
main fuse or switch may bear the magic letters "PME".

That said, mine did when I moved in, but the earth was not in fact
connected to the neutral, but to a fairly feeble looking earth rod
right by the front door.


Indeed the sticker alone is not solid evidence that the install is
actually using the PME earth.

My cutout has the PME sticker, but it would seem that the upgrade to a
PME capable supply occurred after the house was previously re-wired.

Hence the installation is TT (as would be typical for many rural
properties with overhead supplies).




Good point. IIRC my overhead supply was replaced with an underground one
soon after I moved in (31 years ago).
  #59   Report Post  
Old February 17th 20, 03:26 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Jul 2006
Posts: 23,510
Default Earthing through plastic pipe

On 16/02/2020 18:49, wrote:
On Sunday, 16 February 2020 15:44:19 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 15/02/2020 17:54, tabbypurr wrote:
On Saturday, 15 February 2020 09:59:41 UTC, Robin wrote:
On 15/02/2020 08:35, tabbypurr wrote:
On Friday, 14 February 2020 11:08:57 UTC, Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:
In article , TimW
wrote:
There was an ancient (1950s) steel pipe bringing mains
water into my house under the front room and then up in
the cup'd under the stairs. There there was a stop cock
and it went into copper pipe and onto the copper a large
sleeved earth wire was connected with a tag on saying
"Do Not Remove".

The steel pipe was leaking so I have taken it all out and
replaced with blue plastic pipe. Was looking at the earth
arrangement and wondering if I need to earth the wiring
in another way, into the ground or something, or are we
still earthed through the water in the plastic pipe out
to the outside world?

It was common many many years ago to provide the earth via
the water pipe. Not so today. Get your leccy board in to
sort it out.

It's nothing to do with the leccy board.



Meanwhile what might help Tim is to know that the relevant
function of "Electricity Boards" was transferred as part of the
privatisation of the industry to distribution network operators
(DNOs). As John has already pointed out they can and do deal
with earthing - although they may charge (and will require main
bonding to be up to current requirements before they supply
PME).

https://www.ukpowernetworks.co.uk/electricity/earthing

The job required is on the OP's installation, not a job for the
DNO on their equipment.


Well its both... You could wire up your installation as if it were
TN-C-S, but that would not be a sensible thing to do if the DNO had
not constructed or upgraded the local distribution network to
support it.


all that's required is to equi bond the water pipe. AFAIK suppliers
don't provide neutral earth terminals on non-PME supplies.


Yup sorry, I think I misread that last post slightly. Assuming in the
OPs installation its confirmed as the supply being PME, then indeed all
that is required is replacing the missing bond.

My comment above is the more general version - that if the supply status
is unknown, the enquiry wit the DNO may be the only *sure* way of
establishing if its safe to make use of the suppliers neutral for the
local earth.

(The type of cutout does not tell you much since they often the same
type for all TN supplies - the only difference being whether the
internal link joining N & E is fitted).


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/
  #60   Report Post  
Old February 17th 20, 11:18 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 40,330
Default Earthing through plastic pipe

In article ,
Tufnell Park wrote:
On 16/02/2020 15:20, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Tufnell Park wrote:
But if you contact your electricity supplier and tell them the problem I'm
sure they'll point you in the right direction.

I very much doubt that your electricity supplier would guide you on a
technical matter such as 'earthing'.


Try it and see.

It's not worth the bother, provision of PME is the responsibility of the
DNO (distribution network operator).


Then a phone call to your supplier will likely point you to the correct
one.

Your electricity supplier merely supplies you with electricty, for
technical matters they may refer you to the DNO, but you will have made
2 calls where one would have done.


I'd guess the 99% of the population that you have quoted earlier are
likely to approach their supplier first, with any problems?

--
*I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.


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