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  #41   Report Post  
Old February 15th 20, 11:55 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default Earthing through plastic pipe

On Friday, 14 February 2020 11:23:46 UTC, TimW wrote:
This is the supply in the porch:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ZhguWVyk5kZkbs1X9
Can wiser eyes than mine declare the type of earthing arrangement?


That CU is definately one from someone's bits box!

Owain


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Old February 15th 20, 01:37 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default Earthing through plastic pipe

On 15/02/2020 10:55, Robin wrote:
On 15/02/2020 10:45, ARW wrote:
On 15/02/2020 10:30, Robin wrote:
On 15/02/2020 09:56, ARW wrote:
On 14/02/2020 14:27, Robin wrote:
On 14/02/2020 13:53, TimW wrote:
On 14/02/2020 13:25, Robin wrote:
On 14/02/2020 11:23, TimW wrote:
On 13/02/2020 21:59, TimW wrote:
There was an ancient (1950s) steel pipe bringing mains water
into my house under the front room and then up in the cup'd
under the stairs. There there was a stop cock and it went into
copper pipe and onto the copper a large sleeved earth wire was
connected with a tag on saying "Do Not Remove".

The steel pipe was leaking so I have taken it all out and
replaced with blue plastic pipe. Was looking at the earth
arrangement and wondering if I need to earth the wiring in
another way, into the ground or something, or are we still
earthed through the water in the plastic pipe out to the
outside world?

TW

This is the supply in the porch:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ZhguWVyk5kZkbs1X9
Two substantial earth cables from the black box, one going to
the box of trip switches, the other just dangling, redundant
from the old economy 7 circuit or something.

Can wiser eyes than mine declare the type of earthing arrangement?



That looks promising (but also a bit of a dog's breakfast).Â* But
I'd rather leave it to those who have seen an awful lot more of
them to advise the next step.

On a point of detail, can you see/work out where the wire
connected to the copper pipe comes from?

No, it comes from the gaps between the joists.
tw

Don't worry about that, it's trivial compared with your earthing.

The news that you have an overhead supply combined with the "dog's
breakfast" aspect makes me more inclined to suspect a "DIY PME"
installation.Â* That is, someone has come along and connected the
earth cable between the incomer and the consumer unit to make it
look as if you have TN-C-S/PME when in fact you have TT.

It doesn't follow that you have an exceedingly dangerous setup.
And there might be an earth rod somewhere.Â* But when looked at
alongside the consumer unit (with it's mix of brands and lack of
RCD protection on some circuits) I'd be bothered.Â* I think you
should have it looked at. But others will know more and better than
me.

In the meantime be careful.





Although it is the same service head as John Rumm's, John actually
has a Ze reading on his. However on the plus side the cut out is
sealed and that suggests that the earth is genuine. You need to cut
the seal and remove the fuse to access the earth on that service head.


My apologies to Tim for my excess of caution.

And in case Tim hasn't picked up on it, Adam does this **** for a
living - and by all accounts rather well.





It could be a false seal:-). The yellow sticker will say PME on it but
that is no guarantee. The OP's only answer is to call his supplier.




I think I was biased by the contrast with the few conversions to PME
I've seen where the earth was a short bit of cable to a MET, or to a
connector left dangling like

https://www.ukpowernetworks.co.uk/-/media/images/uk-power-networks/ge/earthing/pme-earthing-photo.ashx?h=232&w=408&la=en&hash=A5FA061E3047D5F7 76145E3CFD0CB2A81AEB15A6


I think their web site must be borked at the mo - all those links just
redirect to the home page at the moment for me...


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/
  #43   Report Post  
Old February 15th 20, 01:46 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default Earthing through plastic pipe

On 15/02/2020 11:55, wrote:
On Friday, 14 February 2020 11:23:46 UTC, TimW wrote:
This is the supply in the porch:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ZhguWVyk5kZkbs1X9
Can wiser eyes than mine declare the type of earthing arrangement?


That CU is definately one from someone's bits box!


It looks very similar to a Contactum insulated CU of about 10 years ago
to me...


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/
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Old February 15th 20, 02:19 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default Earthing through plastic pipe

On 15/02/2020 13:37, John Rumm wrote:
snip


I think their web site must be borked at the mo - all those links just
redirect to the home page at the moment for me...



They have put up a new home page ready for Storm Dennis, and I too
cannot now get to the page or photo in the links.




--
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Old February 15th 20, 05:04 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default Earthing through plastic pipe

On Saturday, 15 February 2020 13:46:57 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
That CU is definately one from someone's bits box!

It looks very similar to a Contactum insulated CU of about 10 years ago
to me...


Did they use Hager, Moeller, Wylex and MK MCBs too ? :-)

Owain


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Old February 15th 20, 05:54 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default Earthing through plastic pipe

On Saturday, 15 February 2020 09:59:41 UTC, Robin wrote:
On 15/02/2020 08:35, tabbypurr wrote:
On Friday, 14 February 2020 11:08:57 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
TimW wrote:
There was an ancient (1950s) steel pipe bringing mains water into my
house under the front room and then up in the cup'd under the stairs.
There there was a stop cock and it went into copper pipe and onto the
copper a large sleeved earth wire was connected with a tag on saying "Do
Not Remove".

The steel pipe was leaking so I have taken it all out and replaced with
blue plastic pipe. Was looking at the earth arrangement and wondering if
I need to earth the wiring in another way, into the ground or something,
or are we still earthed through the water in the plastic pipe out to the
outside world?

It was common many many years ago to provide the earth via the water pipe.
Not so today. Get your leccy board in to sort it out.


It's nothing to do with the leccy board.



Meanwhile what might help Tim is to know that the relevant function of
"Electricity Boards" was transferred as part of the privatisation of the
industry to distribution network operators (DNOs). As John has already
pointed out they can and do deal with earthing - although they may
charge (and will require main bonding to be up to current requirements
before they supply PME).

https://www.ukpowernetworks.co.uk/electricity/earthing


The job required is on the OP's installation, not a job for the DNO on their equipment.


NT
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Old February 15th 20, 05:56 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default Earthing through plastic pipe

On Saturday, 15 February 2020 11:32:02 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:


It was common many many years ago to provide the earth via the water
pipe. Not so today. Get your leccy board in to sort it out.


It's nothing to do with the leccy board.


How would you define leccy board? The same as your electricity supplier?

If I meant that I'd have said so. ;-)


What's happened to you lately?
  #49   Report Post  
Old February 16th 20, 01:36 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default Earthing through plastic pipe

In article ,
wrote:
On Saturday, 15 February 2020 11:32:02 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:


It was common many many years ago to provide the earth via the
water pipe. Not so today. Get your leccy board in to sort it out.


It's nothing to do with the leccy board.


How would you define leccy board? The same as your electricity
supplier?

If I meant that I'd have said so. ;-)


What's happened to you lately?


I could ask the same of you. ;-)

But if you contact your electricity supplier and tell them the problem I'm
sure they'll point you in the right direction.

--
*Succeed, in spite of management *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
  #50   Report Post  
Old February 16th 20, 03:07 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default Earthing through plastic pipe

On 16/02/2020 13:36, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
On Saturday, 15 February 2020 11:32:02 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:


It was common many many years ago to provide the earth via the
water pipe. Not so today. Get your leccy board in to sort it out.

It's nothing to do with the leccy board.

How would you define leccy board? The same as your electricity
supplier?

If I meant that I'd have said so. ;-)


What's happened to you lately?


I could ask the same of you. ;-)

But if you contact your electricity supplier and tell them the problem I'm
sure they'll point you in the right direction.

I very much doubt that your electricity supplier would guide you on a
technical matter such as 'earthing'.

It would be more productive to contact the DNO for his area and enquire
if PME is available on their network. If avaialable the DNO are obliged
to provide PME to the terminal cutout. There may be a standard charge
for doing this.


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