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Old February 15th 20, 12:15 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default Earthing through plastic pipe



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On Thursday, 13 February 2020 21:59:54 UTC, TimW wrote:

The steel pipe was leaking so I have taken it all out and replaced with
blue plastic pipe. Was looking at the earth arrangement and wondering if
I need to earth the wiring in another way, into the ground or something,
or are we still earthed through the water in the plastic pipe out to the
outside world?


All more erudite considerations apart, the Water Boards do not guarantee
that their water will be present at all times that the electricity is on.


It isnt the water that matters, it’s the pipe,


  #32   Report Post  
Old February 15th 20, 09:35 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default Earthing through plastic pipe

On Friday, 14 February 2020 11:08:57 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
TimW wrote:
There was an ancient (1950s) steel pipe bringing mains water into my
house under the front room and then up in the cup'd under the stairs.
There there was a stop cock and it went into copper pipe and onto the
copper a large sleeved earth wire was connected with a tag on saying "Do
Not Remove".


The steel pipe was leaking so I have taken it all out and replaced with
blue plastic pipe. Was looking at the earth arrangement and wondering if
I need to earth the wiring in another way, into the ground or something,
or are we still earthed through the water in the plastic pipe out to the
outside world?


It was common many many years ago to provide the earth via the water pipe.
Not so today. Get your leccy board in to sort it out.


It's nothing to do with the leccy board.


NT
  #33   Report Post  
Old February 15th 20, 09:39 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 11,317
Default Earthing through plastic pipe

On Friday, 14 February 2020 11:23:46 UTC, TimW wrote:
On 13/02/2020 21:59, TimW wrote:
There was an ancient (1950s) steel pipe bringing mains water into my
house under the front room and then up in the cup'd under the stairs.
There there was a stop cock and it went into copper pipe and onto the
copper a large sleeved earth wire was connected with a tag on saying "Do
Not Remove".

The steel pipe was leaking so I have taken it all out and replaced with
blue plastic pipe. Was looking at the earth arrangement and wondering if
I need to earth the wiring in another way, into the ground or something,
or are we still earthed through the water in the plastic pipe out to the
outside world?

TW


This is the supply in the porch:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ZhguWVyk5kZkbs1X9
Two substantial earth cables from the black box, one going to the box of
trip switches, the other just dangling, redundant from the old economy 7
circuit or something.

Can wiser eyes than mine declare the type of earthing arrangement?

RW


You've got a supplier earth with partial RCD cover. So the water pipe connection is equipotential bonding only. If the internal piping is metal, reconnect the earth coloured wire to the house metal water piping somewhere near where it enters the house and Robert becomes related.


NT
  #34   Report Post  
Old February 15th 20, 10:56 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
ARW ARW is offline
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Posts: 9,231
Default Earthing through plastic pipe

On 14/02/2020 14:27, Robin wrote:
On 14/02/2020 13:53, TimW wrote:
On 14/02/2020 13:25, Robin wrote:
On 14/02/2020 11:23, TimW wrote:
On 13/02/2020 21:59, TimW wrote:
There was an ancient (1950s) steel pipe bringing mains water into
my house under the front room and then up in the cup'd under the
stairs. There there was a stop cock and it went into copper pipe
and onto the copper a large sleeved earth wire was connected with a
tag on saying "Do Not Remove".

The steel pipe was leaking so I have taken it all out and replaced
with blue plastic pipe. Was looking at the earth arrangement and
wondering if I need to earth the wiring in another way, into the
ground or something, or are we still earthed through the water in
the plastic pipe out to the outside world?

TW

This is the supply in the porch:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ZhguWVyk5kZkbs1X9
Two substantial earth cables from the black box, one going to the
box of trip switches, the other just dangling, redundant from the
old economy 7 circuit or something.

Can wiser eyes than mine declare the type of earthing arrangement?



That looks promising (but also a bit of a dog's breakfast).Â* But I'd
rather leave it to those who have seen an awful lot more of them to
advise the next step.

On a point of detail, can you see/work out where the wire connected
to the copper pipe comes from?

No, it comes from the gaps between the joists.
tw


Don't worry about that, it's trivial compared with your earthing.

The news that you have an overhead supply combined with the "dog's
breakfast" aspect makes me more inclined to suspect a "DIY PME"
installation.Â* That is, someone has come along and connected the earth
cable between the incomer and the consumer unit to make it look as if
you have TN-C-S/PME when in fact you have TT.

It doesn't follow that you have an exceedingly dangerous setup.Â* And
there might be an earth rod somewhere.Â* But when looked at alongside the
consumer unit (with it's mix of brands and lack of RCD protection on
some circuits) I'd be bothered.Â* I think you should have it looked at.
But others will know more and better than me.

In the meantime be careful.





Although it is the same service head as John Rumm's, John actually has a
Ze reading on his. However on the plus side the cut out is sealed and
that suggests that the earth is genuine. You need to cut the seal and
remove the fuse to access the earth on that service head.

--
Adam
  #35   Report Post  
Old February 15th 20, 10:59 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 927
Default Earthing through plastic pipe

On 15/02/2020 08:35, wrote:
On Friday, 14 February 2020 11:08:57 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
TimW wrote:
There was an ancient (1950s) steel pipe bringing mains water into my
house under the front room and then up in the cup'd under the stairs.
There there was a stop cock and it went into copper pipe and onto the
copper a large sleeved earth wire was connected with a tag on saying "Do
Not Remove".


The steel pipe was leaking so I have taken it all out and replaced with
blue plastic pipe. Was looking at the earth arrangement and wondering if
I need to earth the wiring in another way, into the ground or something,
or are we still earthed through the water in the plastic pipe out to the
outside world?


It was common many many years ago to provide the earth via the water pipe.
Not so today. Get your leccy board in to sort it out.


It's nothing to do with the leccy board.



Meanwhile what might help Tim is to know that the relevant function of
"Electricity Boards" was transferred as part of the privatisation of the
industry to distribution network operators (DNOs). As John has already
pointed out they can and do deal with earthing - although they may
charge (and will require main bonding to be up to current requirements
before they supply PME).

https://www.ukpowernetworks.co.uk/electricity/earthing

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid


  #36   Report Post  
Old February 15th 20, 11:30 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 927
Default Earthing through plastic pipe

On 15/02/2020 09:56, ARW wrote:
On 14/02/2020 14:27, Robin wrote:
On 14/02/2020 13:53, TimW wrote:
On 14/02/2020 13:25, Robin wrote:
On 14/02/2020 11:23, TimW wrote:
On 13/02/2020 21:59, TimW wrote:
There was an ancient (1950s) steel pipe bringing mains water into
my house under the front room and then up in the cup'd under the
stairs. There there was a stop cock and it went into copper pipe
and onto the copper a large sleeved earth wire was connected with
a tag on saying "Do Not Remove".

The steel pipe was leaking so I have taken it all out and replaced
with blue plastic pipe. Was looking at the earth arrangement and
wondering if I need to earth the wiring in another way, into the
ground or something, or are we still earthed through the water in
the plastic pipe out to the outside world?

TW

This is the supply in the porch:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ZhguWVyk5kZkbs1X9
Two substantial earth cables from the black box, one going to the
box of trip switches, the other just dangling, redundant from the
old economy 7 circuit or something.

Can wiser eyes than mine declare the type of earthing arrangement?



That looks promising (but also a bit of a dog's breakfast).Â* But I'd
rather leave it to those who have seen an awful lot more of them to
advise the next step.

On a point of detail, can you see/work out where the wire connected
to the copper pipe comes from?

No, it comes from the gaps between the joists.
tw


Don't worry about that, it's trivial compared with your earthing.

The news that you have an overhead supply combined with the "dog's
breakfast" aspect makes me more inclined to suspect a "DIY PME"
installation.Â* That is, someone has come along and connected the earth
cable between the incomer and the consumer unit to make it look as if
you have TN-C-S/PME when in fact you have TT.

It doesn't follow that you have an exceedingly dangerous setup.Â* And
there might be an earth rod somewhere.Â* But when looked at alongside
the consumer unit (with it's mix of brands and lack of RCD protection
on some circuits) I'd be bothered.Â* I think you should have it looked
at. But others will know more and better than me.

In the meantime be careful.





Although it is the same service head as John Rumm's, John actually has a
Ze reading on his. However on the plus side the cut out is sealed and
that suggests that the earth is genuine. You need to cut the seal and
remove the fuse to access the earth on that service head.


My apologies to Tim for my excess of caution.

And in case Tim hasn't picked up on it, Adam does this **** for a living
- and by all accounts rather well.




--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid
  #37   Report Post  
Old February 15th 20, 11:45 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
ARW ARW is offline
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First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Aug 2012
Posts: 9,231
Default Earthing through plastic pipe

On 15/02/2020 10:30, Robin wrote:
On 15/02/2020 09:56, ARW wrote:
On 14/02/2020 14:27, Robin wrote:
On 14/02/2020 13:53, TimW wrote:
On 14/02/2020 13:25, Robin wrote:
On 14/02/2020 11:23, TimW wrote:
On 13/02/2020 21:59, TimW wrote:
There was an ancient (1950s) steel pipe bringing mains water into
my house under the front room and then up in the cup'd under the
stairs. There there was a stop cock and it went into copper pipe
and onto the copper a large sleeved earth wire was connected with
a tag on saying "Do Not Remove".

The steel pipe was leaking so I have taken it all out and
replaced with blue plastic pipe. Was looking at the earth
arrangement and wondering if I need to earth the wiring in
another way, into the ground or something, or are we still
earthed through the water in the plastic pipe out to the outside
world?

TW

This is the supply in the porch:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ZhguWVyk5kZkbs1X9
Two substantial earth cables from the black box, one going to the
box of trip switches, the other just dangling, redundant from the
old economy 7 circuit or something.

Can wiser eyes than mine declare the type of earthing arrangement?



That looks promising (but also a bit of a dog's breakfast).Â* But
I'd rather leave it to those who have seen an awful lot more of
them to advise the next step.

On a point of detail, can you see/work out where the wire connected
to the copper pipe comes from?

No, it comes from the gaps between the joists.
tw

Don't worry about that, it's trivial compared with your earthing.

The news that you have an overhead supply combined with the "dog's
breakfast" aspect makes me more inclined to suspect a "DIY PME"
installation.Â* That is, someone has come along and connected the
earth cable between the incomer and the consumer unit to make it look
as if you have TN-C-S/PME when in fact you have TT.

It doesn't follow that you have an exceedingly dangerous setup.Â* And
there might be an earth rod somewhere.Â* But when looked at alongside
the consumer unit (with it's mix of brands and lack of RCD protection
on some circuits) I'd be bothered.Â* I think you should have it looked
at. But others will know more and better than me.

In the meantime be careful.





Although it is the same service head as John Rumm's, John actually has
a Ze reading on his. However on the plus side the cut out is sealed
and that suggests that the earth is genuine. You need to cut the seal
and remove the fuse to access the earth on that service head.


My apologies to Tim for my excess of caution.

And in case Tim hasn't picked up on it, Adam does this **** for a living
- and by all accounts rather well.





It could be a false seal:-). The yellow sticker will say PME on it but
that is no guarantee. The OP's only answer is to call his supplier.



--
Adam
  #38   Report Post  
Old February 15th 20, 11:55 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Aug 2016
Posts: 927
Default Earthing through plastic pipe

On 15/02/2020 10:45, ARW wrote:
On 15/02/2020 10:30, Robin wrote:
On 15/02/2020 09:56, ARW wrote:
On 14/02/2020 14:27, Robin wrote:
On 14/02/2020 13:53, TimW wrote:
On 14/02/2020 13:25, Robin wrote:
On 14/02/2020 11:23, TimW wrote:
On 13/02/2020 21:59, TimW wrote:
There was an ancient (1950s) steel pipe bringing mains water
into my house under the front room and then up in the cup'd
under the stairs. There there was a stop cock and it went into
copper pipe and onto the copper a large sleeved earth wire was
connected with a tag on saying "Do Not Remove".

The steel pipe was leaking so I have taken it all out and
replaced with blue plastic pipe. Was looking at the earth
arrangement and wondering if I need to earth the wiring in
another way, into the ground or something, or are we still
earthed through the water in the plastic pipe out to the outside
world?

TW

This is the supply in the porch:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ZhguWVyk5kZkbs1X9
Two substantial earth cables from the black box, one going to the
box of trip switches, the other just dangling, redundant from the
old economy 7 circuit or something.

Can wiser eyes than mine declare the type of earthing arrangement?



That looks promising (but also a bit of a dog's breakfast).Â* But
I'd rather leave it to those who have seen an awful lot more of
them to advise the next step.

On a point of detail, can you see/work out where the wire
connected to the copper pipe comes from?

No, it comes from the gaps between the joists.
tw

Don't worry about that, it's trivial compared with your earthing.

The news that you have an overhead supply combined with the "dog's
breakfast" aspect makes me more inclined to suspect a "DIY PME"
installation.Â* That is, someone has come along and connected the
earth cable between the incomer and the consumer unit to make it
look as if you have TN-C-S/PME when in fact you have TT.

It doesn't follow that you have an exceedingly dangerous setup.Â* And
there might be an earth rod somewhere.Â* But when looked at alongside
the consumer unit (with it's mix of brands and lack of RCD
protection on some circuits) I'd be bothered.Â* I think you should
have it looked at. But others will know more and better than me.

In the meantime be careful.





Although it is the same service head as John Rumm's, John actually
has a Ze reading on his. However on the plus side the cut out is
sealed and that suggests that the earth is genuine. You need to cut
the seal and remove the fuse to access the earth on that service head.


My apologies to Tim for my excess of caution.

And in case Tim hasn't picked up on it, Adam does this **** for a
living - and by all accounts rather well.





It could be a false seal:-). The yellow sticker will say PME on it but
that is no guarantee. The OP's only answer is to call his supplier.




I think I was biased by the contrast with the few conversions to PME
I've seen where the earth was a short bit of cable to a MET, or to a
connector left dangling like

https://www.ukpowernetworks.co.uk/-/media/images/uk-power-networks/ge/earthing/pme-earthing-photo.ashx?h=232&w=408&la=en&hash=A5FA061E3047D5F7 76145E3CFD0CB2A81AEB15A6



--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid
  #39   Report Post  
Old February 15th 20, 12:22 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Dec 2015
Posts: 775
Default Earthing through plastic pipe

On 15/02/2020 10:45, ARW wrote:
On 15/02/2020 10:30, Robin wrote:
On 15/02/2020 09:56, ARW wrote:
On 14/02/2020 14:27, Robin wrote:
On 14/02/2020 13:53, TimW wrote:
On 14/02/2020 13:25, Robin wrote:
On 14/02/2020 11:23, TimW wrote:
On 13/02/2020 21:59, TimW wrote:
There was an ancient (1950s) steel pipe bringing mains water
into my house under the front room and then up in the cup'd
under the stairs. There there was a stop cock and it went into
copper pipe and onto the copper a large sleeved earth wire was
connected with a tag on saying "Do Not Remove".

The steel pipe was leaking so I have taken it all out and
replaced with blue plastic pipe. Was looking at the earth
arrangement and wondering if I need to earth the wiring in
another way, into the ground or something, or are we still
earthed through the water in the plastic pipe out to the outside
world?

TW

This is the supply in the porch:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ZhguWVyk5kZkbs1X9
Two substantial earth cables from the black box, one going to the
box of trip switches, the other just dangling, redundant from the
old economy 7 circuit or something.

Can wiser eyes than mine declare the type of earthing arrangement?



That looks promising (but also a bit of a dog's breakfast).Â* But
I'd rather leave it to those who have seen an awful lot more of
them to advise the next step.

On a point of detail, can you see/work out where the wire
connected to the copper pipe comes from?

No, it comes from the gaps between the joists.
tw

Don't worry about that, it's trivial compared with your earthing.

The news that you have an overhead supply combined with the "dog's
breakfast" aspect makes me more inclined to suspect a "DIY PME"
installation.Â* That is, someone has come along and connected the
earth cable between the incomer and the consumer unit to make it
look as if you have TN-C-S/PME when in fact you have TT.

It doesn't follow that you have an exceedingly dangerous setup.Â* And
there might be an earth rod somewhere.Â* But when looked at alongside
the consumer unit (with it's mix of brands and lack of RCD
protection on some circuits) I'd be bothered.Â* I think you should
have it looked at. But others will know more and better than me.

In the meantime be careful.


Although it is the same service head as John Rumm's, John actually
has a Ze reading on his. However on the plus side the cut out is
sealed and that suggests that the earth is genuine. You need to cut
the seal and remove the fuse to access the earth on that service head.


My apologies to Tim for my excess of caution.

And in case Tim hasn't picked up on it, Adam does this **** for a
living - and by all accounts rather well.


It could be a false seal:-). The yellow sticker will say PME on it but
that is no guarantee. The OP's only answer is to call his supplier.



Yes, thanks. Really useful. Given that that board has been put in the
porch there in my time and the wiring has been professionally inspected
after some alterations since then I will just sleep easy.
TW
  #40   Report Post  
Old February 15th 20, 12:28 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 39,712
Default Earthing through plastic pipe

In article ,
wrote:
It was common many many years ago to provide the earth via the water
pipe. Not so today. Get your leccy board in to sort it out.


It's nothing to do with the leccy board.


How would you define leccy board? The same as your electricity supplier?

If I meant that I'd have said so. ;-)

--
*He who laughs last has just realised the joke.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.


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