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Old February 14th 20, 11:07 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default Earthing through plastic pipe

In article ,
TimW wrote:
There was an ancient (1950s) steel pipe bringing mains water into my
house under the front room and then up in the cup'd under the stairs.
There there was a stop cock and it went into copper pipe and onto the
copper a large sleeved earth wire was connected with a tag on saying "Do
Not Remove".


The steel pipe was leaking so I have taken it all out and replaced with
blue plastic pipe. Was looking at the earth arrangement and wondering if
I need to earth the wiring in another way, into the ground or something,
or are we still earthed through the water in the plastic pipe out to the
outside world?


It was common many many years ago to provide the earth via the water pipe.
Not so today. Get your leccy board in to sort it out.

--
*Until I was thirteen, I thought my name was SHUT UP .

Dave Plowman London SW
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Old February 14th 20, 11:09 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default Earthing through plastic pipe

In article ,
wrote:
On Thursday, 13 February 2020 21:59:54 UTC, TimW wrote:
There was an ancient (1950s) steel pipe bringing mains water into my
house under the front room and then up in the cup'd under the stairs.
There there was a stop cock and it went into copper pipe and onto the
copper a large sleeved earth wire was connected with a tag on saying
"Do Not Remove".

The steel pipe was leaking so I have taken it all out and replaced
with blue plastic pipe. Was looking at the earth arrangement and
wondering if I need to earth the wiring in another way, into the
ground or something, or are we still earthed through the water in the
plastic pipe out to the outside world?

TW


Water is NOT an adequate earth. An old electrical install with no earth
is not safe.



It's not the water which provides the earth. It's the metal pipe in
contact with the ground over a long distance.

--
*If God had wanted me to touch my toes, he would have put them on my knees

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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Old February 14th 20, 11:10 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default Earthing through plastic pipe

On 14/02/2020 11:06, Tim Watts wrote:
On 13/02/2020 22:35, TimW wrote:


Earth rod and required RCD measures if you are a TT installation.


But are you maybe a TN-C-S or TN-S (supplier provided earth) and this
clamp was merely equipotential bonding?



Going to add - if you can't work it out, best call a local sparky around
asap to check it out. The worst case scenario as others have mentioned
is a very dangerous installation.


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Old February 14th 20, 11:12 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default Earthing through plastic pipe

On 14/02/2020 08:49, Brian Gaff (Sofa 2) wrote:
I've often wondered what they do these days as people tell me you can see
the plastic pipes coming up for the services in new builds. Maybe they all
have some kind of local Earth spike or are they all joined together these
days and earthed at intervals down the road?



Typically the earth will be provided by the electrical supplier, using
their combined Protective Earth and Neutral conductor. Thus giving the
consumer a TN-C-S / PME earthing system.

If the pipework in the house is metal, then it still need equipotential
bonding since its capable of introducing a voltage into an equipotential
zone from elsewhere in the house even if it can't do it from external to
the property due to the plastic services.

If the pipework in the property is all[1] the plastic, then the pipework
will not be included in the equipotential bonding.

[1] No need for EQ bonding in cases where the pipework is all plastic
but with only "show work" in copper.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
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| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
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Old February 14th 20, 11:19 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default Earthing through plastic pipe

TimW wrote:
There was an ancient (1950s) steel pipe bringing mains water into my
house under the front room and then up in the cup'd under the stairs.
There there was a stop cock and it went into copper pipe and onto the
copper a large sleeved earth wire was connected with a tag on saying "Do
Not Remove".

The steel pipe was leaking so I have taken it all out and replaced with
blue plastic pipe. Was looking at the earth arrangement and wondering if
I need to earth the wiring in another way, into the ground or something,
or are we still earthed through the water in the plastic pipe out to the
outside world?

That is a bonding connection, not an earth connection (I hope).

--
Chris Green
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Old February 14th 20, 11:22 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default Earthing through plastic pipe

On Thursday, 13 February 2020 21:59:54 UTC, TimW wrote:

The steel pipe was leaking so I have taken it all out and replaced with
blue plastic pipe. Was looking at the earth arrangement and wondering if
I need to earth the wiring in another way, into the ground or something,
or are we still earthed through the water in the plastic pipe out to the
outside world?


All more erudite considerations apart, the Water Boards do not guarantee that their water will be present at all times that the electricity is on.

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Old February 14th 20, 11:23 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default Earthing through plastic pipe

On 13/02/2020 21:59, TimW wrote:
There was an ancient (1950s) steel pipe bringing mains water into my
house under the front room and then up in the cup'd under the stairs.
There there was a stop cock and it went into copper pipe and onto the
copper a large sleeved earth wire was connected with a tag on saying "Do
Not Remove".

The steel pipe was leaking so I have taken it all out and replaced with
blue plastic pipe. Was looking at the earth arrangement and wondering if
I need to earth the wiring in another way, into the ground or something,
or are we still earthed through the water in the plastic pipe out to the
outside world?

TW


This is the supply in the porch:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ZhguWVyk5kZkbs1X9
Two substantial earth cables from the black box, one going to the box of
trip switches, the other just dangling, redundant from the old economy 7
circuit or something.

Can wiser eyes than mine declare the type of earthing arrangement?

RW
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Old February 14th 20, 12:39 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default Earthing through plastic pipe

On 14/02/2020 11:23, TimW wrote:
On 13/02/2020 21:59, TimW wrote:
There was an ancient (1950s) steel pipe bringing mains water into my
house under the front room and then up in the cup'd under the stairs.
There there was a stop cock and it went into copper pipe and onto the
copper a large sleeved earth wire was connected with a tag on saying
"Do Not Remove".

The steel pipe was leaking so I have taken it all out and replaced
with blue plastic pipe. Was looking at the earth arrangement and
wondering if I need to earth the wiring in another way, into the
ground or something, or are we still earthed through the water in the
plastic pipe out to the outside world?

TW


This is the supply in the porch:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ZhguWVyk5kZkbs1X9
Two substantial earth cables from the black box, one going to the box of
trip switches, the other just dangling, redundant from the old economy 7
circuit or something.

Can wiser eyes than mine declare the type of earthing arrangement?

RW


Does the black cable that feeds the companies 80 amp fuse come in
from underground ?.

If so, you probably have a PME arrangement. In fact the 10mm earth
cable going into that 80 amp fuse block seems to confirm it.

The CU and meter look reasonably modern (-ish). The ring mains seem
to be protected by a residual current device of some sort. Is RCCB
an older name for RCD ?. Not sure.

Curiously there are Wylex MCBs and an MK one for the immersion.
I didn't think they were physically compatible. Adam will know.

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Old February 14th 20, 01:25 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default Earthing through plastic pipe

On 14/02/2020 11:23, TimW wrote:
On 13/02/2020 21:59, TimW wrote:
There was an ancient (1950s) steel pipe bringing mains water into my
house under the front room and then up in the cup'd under the stairs.
There there was a stop cock and it went into copper pipe and onto the
copper a large sleeved earth wire was connected with a tag on saying
"Do Not Remove".

The steel pipe was leaking so I have taken it all out and replaced
with blue plastic pipe. Was looking at the earth arrangement and
wondering if I need to earth the wiring in another way, into the
ground or something, or are we still earthed through the water in the
plastic pipe out to the outside world?

TW


This is the supply in the porch:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ZhguWVyk5kZkbs1X9
Two substantial earth cables from the black box, one going to the box of
trip switches, the other just dangling, redundant from the old economy 7
circuit or something.

Can wiser eyes than mine declare the type of earthing arrangement?



That looks promising (but also a bit of a dog's breakfast). But I'd
rather leave it to those who have seen an awful lot more of them to
advise the next step.

On a point of detail, can you see/work out where the wire connected to
the copper pipe comes from?

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid


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